• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.

Messianics who preach circumcision

Discussion in 'Messianic Judaism' started by 31gH9N.9., May 25, 2018.

  1. Open Heart

    Open Heart Well-Known Member

    +4,321
    United States
    Seeker
    Celibate
    It says the covenant is disappearaing future tense, but it very definitely says in the Bible that the covenant of circumcision to last for ever.
     
  2. CherubRam

    CherubRam Well-Known Member

    +742
    United States
    Oneness
    Private
    US-Others
    The Sanhedrin (Hebrew and Aramaic: סנהדרין; Greek: Συνέδριον, synedrion, "sitting together," hence "assembly" or "council") was an assembly of twenty-three or seventy-one rabbis appointed to sit as a tribunal in every city in the ancient Land of Israel.

    Sadducees

    The sect was identified by Josephus with the upper social and economic echelon of Judean society. As a whole, the sect fulfilled various political, social, and religious roles, including maintaining the Temple. The Sadducees are often compared to other contemporaneous sects, including the Pharisees and the Essenes.

    Thus the Three Shepherds: Sanhedrin, Sadducees, and Pharisees.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2018
  3. CherubRam

    CherubRam Well-Known Member

    +742
    United States
    Oneness
    Private
    US-Others
    WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF GOD PUT AN END TO A COVENANT OR ETERNITY?

    From 30 AD to 70 AD it was a transitional period.
     
  4. Open Heart

    Open Heart Well-Known Member

    +4,321
    United States
    Seeker
    Celibate
    Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

    Now I ask you, are you still a male? Am I still a female?

    Obviously what the verse means is that when it comes to salvation and the new covenant, we are equal before God. It has nothing to do with, i.e. whether I am a Jew and you are not, or whether you are male and I am female, or whether we are both free, or whether I am an American and you are a Brit, all of which remain quite true in this earthly realm.
     
  5. Open Heart

    Open Heart Well-Known Member

    +4,321
    United States
    Seeker
    Celibate
    It depends on the covenant. Some covenants were ever lasting. Others were not. For example, part of Adam's covenant was that they could eat of any tree in the Garden -- this continued until Noah, when God changed it and gave meat to eat because the covenant was not eternal. OTOH, the covenant with Noah never to again destroy the world by flood is a perpetual covenant. It cannot be broken.

    Just because the Temple was destroyed in 70 AD doesn't mean any laws were abrogated. From 30 AD to 70 AD we have the example of the Messianic believers what to do when a Temple exists. After 70 AD we have the example of Messianic believers what to do when a Temple does not exist. None of it is any different than what Jews did when a Temple did and did not exist.
     
  6. Open Heart

    Open Heart Well-Known Member

    +4,321
    United States
    Seeker
    Celibate
    None of this contradicts a word of what I said, which was that the Sadducees and Pharisees were sects, and the Sanhedrin was a legislative body.
     
  7. CherubRam

    CherubRam Well-Known Member

    +742
    United States
    Oneness
    Private
    US-Others
    The Sanhedrin (Hebrew and Aramaic: סנהדרין; Greek: Συνέδριον, synedrion, "sitting together," hence "assembly" or "council") was an assembly of twenty-three or seventy-one rabbis appointed to sit as a tribunal in every city in the ancient Land of Israel.
     
  8. CherubRam

    CherubRam Well-Known Member

    +742
    United States
    Oneness
    Private
    US-Others
    Zechariah 11:7-11. Three Shepherds And The Revoked Covenant.


    Zechariah 11
    7 So I pastured the flock marked for slaughter, particularly the oppressed of the flock. Then I took two staffs and called one Favor and the other Union, and I pastured the flock.
    8 In one month I got rid of the three shepherds.
    The flock detested me, and I grew weary of them 9 and said, "I will not be your shepherd. Let the dying die, and the perishing perish. Let those who are left eat one another's flesh."
    10 Then I took my staff called Favor and broke it, revoking the covenant I had made with all the nations.
    11 It was revoked on that day, and so the afflicted of the flock who were watching me knew it was the word [Yahshua] of [the Lord / Yahwah.]


    The Sanhedrin (Hebrew and Aramaic: סנהדרין; Greek: Συνέδριον, synedrion, "sitting together," hence "assembly" or "council") was an assembly of twenty-three or seventy-one rabbis appointed to sit as a tribunal in every city in the ancient Land of Israel.


    The Sadducees were members of a Jewish sect founded in the second century BC, possibly as a political party. They ceased to exist sometime after the first century AD.


    The Pharisee were founded in 167 BC, they were a ("separatist") party that emerged largely out of a group of scribes and sages. Their name comes from the Hebrew and Aramaic parush or parushi, which means "one who is separated.


    Thus the Three Shepherds: Sanhedrin, Sadducees, and Pharisees.
     
  9. CherubRam

    CherubRam Well-Known Member

    +742
    United States
    Oneness
    Private
    US-Others
    Paul’s Arrival at Jerusalem
    Acts 21
    17 When we arrived at Jerusalem, the brothers and sisters received us warmly. 18 The next day Paul and the rest of us went to see James, and all the elders were present. 19 Paul greeted them and reported in detail what God had done among the Gentiles through his ministry.

    20 When they heard this, they praised God. Then they said to Paul: “You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed, and all of them are zealous for the law. 21 They have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or live according to our customs. 22 What shall we do? They will certainly hear that you have come, 23 so do what we tell you. There are four men with us who have made a vow. 24 Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses, so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everyone will know there is no truth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law. 25 As for the Gentile believers, we have written to them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality.”

    26 The next day Paul took the men and purified himself along with them. Then he went to the temple to give notice of the date when the days of purification would end and the offering would be made for each of them.

    27 When the seven days were nearly over, some Jews from the province of Asia saw Paul at the temple. They stirred up the whole crowd and seized him, 28 shouting, “Fellow Israelites, help us! This is the man who teaches everyone everywhere against our people and our law and this place. And besides, he has brought Greeks into the temple and defiled this holy place.”
     
  10. pinacled

    pinacled walking with the Shekinah

    +459
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Private
    Your numbers are incorrect.
     
  11. CherubRam

    CherubRam Well-Known Member

    +742
    United States
    Oneness
    Private
    US-Others
    What do you mean?
     
  12. Open Heart

    Open Heart Well-Known Member

    +4,321
    United States
    Seeker
    Celibate
    So what?
     
  13. Randy777

    Randy777 Well-Known Member

    661
    +140
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    Strangely enough I am circumcised both of the body by man and my heart by the Spirit through Jesus.
    This issue was settled a long ago with the approval of the Holy Spirit and the Apostles. It was not required to have gentiles circumcised of the body by man to belong to Jesus. The heart by the Spirit through Jesus is required to belong to Jesus. Christ in us.
    Ref Acts 15
     
  14. CherubRam

    CherubRam Well-Known Member

    +742
    United States
    Oneness
    Private
    US-Others
    We are aware that there is non-covenant circumcision.
     
  15. Randy777

    Randy777 Well-Known Member

    661
    +140
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    And keep the law Moses was also discussed. Grace through faith in Jesus won the day. - thank God!

    After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9 He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are...
     
  16. Heber Book List

    Heber Book List Theologian [Applied Theology]

    +838
    United Kingdom
    Messianic
    Private

    The yoke referred to was the legalistic teaching of the Judaisers who wanted Gentiles to be circumcised and take on the whole Law as they interpreted it, at the outset, not the Law as G_d intended :) It was this that Peter was arguing against; they then agreed the minimum that Gentiles had to obey as they attended the synagogue for the first time, where they would learn more about G_d's Law (the yoke that was light, as Yeshua spoke about it).
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2018
  17. Randy777

    Randy777 Well-Known Member

    661
    +140
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    I know this:I have the Spirit of Christ in me. I have never been in a synagogue.

    This is what I read vs what you wrote
    Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.”

    Jesus=>Love one another
     
  18. Heber Book List

    Heber Book List Theologian [Applied Theology]

    +838
    United Kingdom
    Messianic
    Private
    I was quite aware that you could look it up and I paraphrased it :) No problem.
     
  19. Randy777

    Randy777 Well-Known Member

    661
    +140
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    I still consider 9 of the 10 commandments valid. We would probably disagree on an absence of all work on the sabbath as a requirement. Even having meals prepared in advance. On top of that I would add to abstain from sexual immorality.
    All those commands can be kept. We are not free to sin.
     
  20. visionary

    visionary Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I. Supporter

    +6,138
    Messianic
    Which is the ten do you consider God made void and why wasn't it as big announcement as Mount Sinai when He bellowed it from the Mountain tops?
     
Loading...