Messianics who preach circumcision

Open Heart

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Ahh, but why preach a need to be Jew?
I'm have not read every post in the thread, and am not sure I'm going to read all five pages. Is someone saying that Gentiles SHOULD become Jews? That is not a claim of Messianism or Messianic Judaism.
 
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Open Heart

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Israel was multinational, and is multinational. Besides the Hebrews, other people joined Moses when they came out of Egypt.
Israel was not multinational. The mixed multitude that joined it became Israelites. There were sojourners in the land, but they did not become part of Israel. Often, their children did, becoming Israelites, but then having become Israelites, they weren't another nationality anymore.
 
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Open Heart

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Replacement Theology is where the Catholic Church takes the place of Israel and the Rabbi's.
1. The Catholic Church no longer allows the teaching of Replacement Theology. See the Vatican 2 document Nostra Aetate.

2. Replacement Theology was rampant in ALL Christian Churches, and is still taught in too many Protestant churches.
 
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Open Heart

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I am not aware of any other denomination preaching RT.
Seventh Day Adventist
United Methodist Church
Evangelical Lutheran Church inAmerica
Presbyterian Church
American Methodist Episcopal Church
Assemblies of God
National Baptist Convention of America
The Church of God in Christ
Southern Baptist Convention
National Baptist Convention USA
National Missionary Baptist Convention of America
Progressive National Baptist Convention Inc
Episcopal Church
Churches of Christ
Pentecostal Assemblies of the World, Inc
American Baptist Churches in the U.S.A
African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church
United Church of Christ
Baptist Bible Fellowship International
Christian Churches and Churches of Christ, Joplin, Mo
Church of God, Cleveland, Tenn
 
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Open Heart

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The Covenant of Circumcision was a means for other people from other nations to enter that covenant with God.
The Covenant of Circumcision was conditional, and because it was continually broken, it was revoked by God.
Genesis 17:13
He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.
 
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Open Heart

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You are making another false allegation. The Sabbath and moral commands remain. It was the priesthood that was changed and the festivals done away with. To say it is not so is Anti-Christ.
He is correct. You are teaching that we SHOULD NOT obey all aspects of the Torah. That is contrary to the SOP, which he quoted to you.
 
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Open Heart

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I see everyone dodged my question and ignored the scriptures I posted.
There is more than one place in Genesis that it says "everlasting covenant." You did not reply yet to my quote about circumcision being an everlasting covenant.
 
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visionary

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I'm not sure what you mean. Ritual purity has nothing to do with sin. It's ceremonial. I do it. I wash my hands and stuff. Very MJ.
Those that were condemning Yeshua and His Disciples for not washing their hands, were very concerned over the importance of hand washing and walking the pure life.
 
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BukiRob

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Well, your first premise regarding Acts 15 is completely wrong.

This stems from the mistaken belief that people make because they try and make Acts 15 about something that it is not.

Instead of trying to "figure out" what Acts 15 is about, why don't we see if scripture itself TELLS us what Acts 15 is all about shall we?

Acts 15:1 Some men came down from Judea and began teaching the brethren, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.”

So, what we see here is that Acts 15 is about "WHO CAN BE SAVED."

So if you were to become a proselytized what as a goy did you have to do? Well, as a male you had to #1 be circumcised and #2 keep the mitzvot (commandments.) Which explains why those pharisee's who are BELIEVERS state in verse 5 5 But some of the sect of the Pharisees who had believed stood up, saying, “It is necessary to circumcise them and to direct them to observe the Law of Moses.

In order to understand act 15, you have to try and put yourself in the place of the first century Jew. That is to say, that ONLY the Jew had a national identification with G-d. No other nation had a covenant with G-d other than Israel. If a Gentile wanted to have a relationship with G-d he HAD to do exactly what the Pharisee's explained. As such it was only natural for them to assume that ONLY the Jew could be saved.

This is further supported by the TESTIMONY that is given by Peter, Paul and Barnabas. What you see in Acts 15 is the Mosaic dispute resolution in action. It was on the mouth of 2 or more witnesses that a matter is established.

Peter, Paul and Barnabas ALL testify that G-d is working among the Gentiles and they are being SAVED.

When you see it from its proper context it all makes sense and there is no conflict. James renders his judgment and when you take ALL of what he says you discover that the setting aside of the Torah is GROSS ERROR.

The things to abstain from; 20 but that we write to them that they abstain from [j]things contaminated by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood.

That is a bit of an odd list is it not? Idols, fornication, strangled and blood? What you see are the 4 things that are directly associated with Pagan Idolatry. Animals that were sacrificed to these idols were usually strangled and after the animal is dead they would often drain the blood and drink it. Additionally, temple prostitution was a social norm.

Why this particular sin? Well, Idolatry was the only sin for which Israel was cast out of the land. When an unchurched person comes to Messiah as he or she is being discipled we don't unload everything at once but we start with the more serious sin and they will learn the rest over time by coming to church/synagogue and bible study.

21 For Moses from ancient generations has in every city those who preach him, since [k]he is read in the synagogues every Sabbath.”
 
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pinacled

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Governing authorities.
Yes,
Which also reminds me of Romans 13.

I believe what viz was explaining is the apropriate services of the levites, until the garment of ten tribes were removed from yhdh, and levi.
I'm not sure if there are many believers that have studied enough to Lean on the Lord for understanding.

Also, it seems that many have ignored the fact that yochanon is born of levitical parents. And whose birth and later service was significantly an example of sound judgement and resolve.
 
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pinacled

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You are making another false allegation. The Sabbath and moral commands remain. It was the priesthood that was changed and the festivals done away with. To say it is not so is Anti-Christ.
By change of preisthood.
Are you referring to the levites being counted among the tribes in Revelation?

That is probably a subject that needs more than random statements.
A congruent process of mature teaching like road marks throughout the terrain of the Torah.

As for statement of festivals done away with.
No, you are mistaken.
You might as well remove singers from the Body of Messiah.
 
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CherubRam

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Wrong!
 
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CherubRam

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There is more than one place in Genesis that it says "everlasting covenant." You did not reply yet to my quote about circumcision being an everlasting covenant.
Everlasting means continual, that is, unless the covenant should be revoked.
 
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pat34lee

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Again, Jews disagree. Enough said.

Like anything true, it doesn't matter who agrees or disagrees.
Galatians 3:7
Galatians 3:29
Romans 4:16

On circumcision of believers (sons of Abraham)
Genesis 17:10-14
 
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