Messianic History

[canisee]

This is a 1st post test please ignore

 

[visionary]

Ultra orthodox conversion.. Orthodox Jew-Rabbi's son accepts Yeshua the Messiah - YouTube

 

[visionary]

At my work I had to go see the Senior Manager that could have fired me
on the spot.

We had a new "temp" co-worker who shared that she was Jewish, and
had recently converted to Catholicism.

It is my job, as Senior Tech to mentor new possible techs.
I had to show her all over the building, and when we went into the server room, I just
felt so compled to share with her.

I shared that I was Messianic and about our congregation.
I shared that if she wanted to find the truth of the Messiah, the Catholic Church was not the best path to go.

She seemed to take it in ok, and that was that, after I gave her directions to our Congregation location.

She never came, and I never pursued it.

She was not the best at her new job, and was honestly not very good as a candidate for the position.

When she was not hired 6 weeks later, she made a complaint that I was the problem, and because
she did not come to my Congregation, that is why she was not hired.

I will never forget, that when I was called in the Senior Manager's office, I honestly did not know why
I was being called in.

But 1 minute before I arrived to knock on his door, the Glory and the beautiful precious anointing of
the Ruach Hakodesh fell on me. As I entered the office, and the senior manager explained why I was
in there, and wanted an answer, the Gospel spoken by Yeshua occured. Matthew 10:19
But when they bring you to trial, do not worry about what to say or how to say it; when the time
comes, you will be given what you should say.

Truthfully to this day, I do not remember what came out of my mouth for an answer. It was the
Ruach Hakodesh who spoke through me, and I was dismissed with a warning, and that was it.

Glory to Ha Shem!!!!!

Praise the Lord, not only in your faithful witness, but in the back up the Lord has given you on this matter.

It is one of the reasons why I have this running thread... Some think that MJ is a new phenomenon. The truth is .. no... there has always been groups who keep the feasts, Shabbat, and live kosher lives while having faith in Yeshua.

Everytime I run across believers who cross over into the living faith, living both Torah and having faith in Yeshua, I record it here. Just because they didn't go by the name of MJ doesn't make the walk that much different that what we are doing here. I made a distinction as to who would qualify. They have to love Torah and the Messiah Yeshua.

Sometimes I run across Jews who come to believe and join some church for a lack of anywhere else to go with the new found faith in Yeshua. In private, I pray that these Jews didn't drop Torah when they grabbed Yeshua by the hem of his garment.

Then there are others who are so far back in history, there is only vague references about them and their distinctions... of course, it is the sabbath keeping, feast keeping, and kosher aspects that made me add them to the messianic history list.

 

[visionary]

This find is interesting, but the article doesn't go into the history of the who, what, where, when, or why of it much.. Yeshua in the Prayerbook for Rosh HaShanah

Yeshua in the Prayerbook for Rosh HaShanah | Beit HaDerekh

Yeshua the Prince of the Face, and the Prince Metatron. I did a study on the Metatron and that is very interesting. http://www.christianforums.com/t7628587/

 

[Yoseft]

It will revealed on that day.

Many Shall be ashamed.

I am not condemning, or attacking.

It will be a Day of Revelation, to all, but a few.

 

[visionary]

For Messianic Judaism of our own day, Feivel Paul Philip Levertoff is a hero of the previous generation, a trailblazer and luminary ahead of his time. The Lord did indeed grant him understanding, knowledge, and wisdom to be an example to his generation, an example to our generation and to the generations that will come after us. Services in Messianic Jewish congregations today are similar to those Levertoff conducted a generation ago. From the time he first came to Messiah to the end of his life, Levertoff understood that the faith practiced by Yeshua and his followers was Judaism. Though he lived in a Christian world, he did not abandon his convictions about Judaism, his Chasidic roots, or his steadfast belief that the Gospels and Apostolic Writings belonged to Judaism.

Vine of David | Yahrzeit of Dr. Paul Philip Levertoff | The Vineyard Blog

Love and the Messianic Age is a Chasidic discourse from one of the pioneers of Messianic Judaism, crammed with stimulating thought and pervaded by real spiritual beauty, a mint of good things and solid learning.

Love and the Messianic Age Commentary explains the concepts used in the book and brings additional insights from the world of Jewish literature, and intriguing parallels from the Gospels and Epistles.

Purchase online from First Fruits of Zion or call toll-free 800-775-4807.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Vis you make some excelent points.

How would you recommend tackling the ever-increasing belief, especially it seems here on this site, of those of an orthedox catholic persuation who are ademant that messianic judaism belief has no place because as a structured group it wasn't established until the mid-1800's.

As far as I can see it the catholic church was the first to "institutionalise" their doctrine. They use this as the basis for their "true" and "only" church stand. Basically "we were the first to get a doctrine on paper so therefore it's the correct one". In my experience those I have talked with personally can't get past a "group" or "organisation" mentality. It is rooted within them so deep that the church that stands against the gates of hell must be in the organisational sense that is generally understood of the word "church" today and not a spirit of unity when joined together with the Messiah Yahshua. While your explaination is great I would usually never get the chance to go into it and if I did I would find the words twisted in their reply. These conversations are usually some of the most frustrating of my life! I would love how to tackle the idea of "church" as instituation through a historical perspective because it obviously doesn't seem to work through a scriptual and logical sense.

Be careful with the terms you use. There are ROMAN Catholic and ORTHODOX Catholic. The EASTERN Orthodox are NOT in communion with the ROMAN pope.

 

[Avodat]

For Messianic Judaism of our own day, Feivel Paul Philip Levertoff is a hero of the previous generation, a trailblazer and luminary ahead of his time. The Lord did indeed grant him understanding, knowledge, and wisdom to be an example to his generation, an example to our generation and to the generations that will come after us. Services in Messianic Jewish congregations today are similar to those Levertoff conducted a generation ago. From the time he first came to Messiah to the end of his life, Levertoff understood that the faith practiced by Yeshua and his followers was Judaism. Though he lived in a Christian world, he did not abandon his convictions about Judaism, his Chasidic roots, or his steadfast belief that the Gospels and Apostolic Writings belonged to Judaism.

Vine of David | Yahrzeit of Dr. Paul Philip Levertoff | The Vineyard Blog

Love and the Messianic Age is a Chasidic discourse from one of the pioneers of Messianic Judaism, crammed with stimulating thought and pervaded by real spiritual beauty, a mint of good things and solid learning.

Love and the Messianic Age Commentary explains the concepts used in the book and brings additional insights from the world of Jewish literature, and intriguing parallels from the Gospels and Epistles.

Purchase online from First Fruits of Zion or call toll-free 800-775-4807.

Levertoff was not alive a generation ago - he lived at the tail end of the 19th century into the 20th.

 

[visionary]

Levertoff was not alive a generation ago - he lived at the tail end of the 19th century into the 20th.

true... 1887 my time flies.

 

[visionary]

Remember the first church was entirely Jewish and did not have a special label. They were just Jews who believed Yeshua from Nazareth was the Messiah and updated their Jewish worship in the light of Messiah having come.

 

[visionary]

In the mid nineteenth century in Kishineff the capital of Bessarabia, during a time of intense persecution by Russia, Joseph Rabbinovitch, a Jewish lawyer and teacher discovered Yeshua as Messiah. He went to the Holy Land, convinced that salvation for the Jews would only come through a return. On his arrival he began reading a New Testament, which he had been assured would give a reliable description of historic locations. As he read, he became convince that Jesus was/is the Messiah. He went home convinced of the need to share his newly fulfilled faith in its thoroughly Jewish context. All of this was accomplished between Rabinovitch and the Holy Spirit, and not by preaching from a Christian. The truth was available to a man who was open to receive it. This movement was the first to use the term "Messianic Jew"

 

[visionary]

In 1895 Our Hope magazine, grew out of the fundamentalist-evangelical movement under the editorship of Arno C. Gaebelein and carried the subtitle A Monthly Devoted to the Study of Prophecy and to Messianic Judaism. A publication of the Hope of Israel movement in New York City, the magazine maintained that Jewish converts should not sever themselves from their people and their Jewish practices. The Hope Of Israel Movement In Nyc 1895 - Messianic

 

[Hoshiyya]

Dugger and Dodd quote Mosheim as saying:

In Lombardy, which was the principle residence of the Italian heretics, there sprung up a singular sect, known, for what reason I cannot tell, by the denomination Passaginians. ... Like the other sects already mentioned, they had the utmost aversion to the discipline and dominion of the Church of Rome; but they were at the same time distinguished by two religious tenets which were peculiar to themselves.

The first was a notion that the observance of the Law of Moses, in everything except the offering of sacrifices, was obligatory upon Christians; in consequence of which they ... Abstained from those meats, the use of which was prohibited under the Mosaic economy, and celebrated the Jewish Sabbath. The second tenet that distinguished this sect was advanced in opposition to the doctrine of three persons in the divine nature (Eccl. Hist., Cent 12, Part 2, Ch. 5, Sec. 14, p. 127: as quoted by Dugger and Dodd, emphasis retained).


Dugger and Dodd go on to say:

That the Cathari did retain and observe the ancient Sabbath, is certified by Romish adversaries. Dr. Allix quotes a Roman Catholic author of the twelfth century, concerning three sorts of heretics - the Cathari, the Passiginians, and the Arnoldistae. Allix says of this Romish writer that -

'He lays it down also as one of their opinions, 'that the law of Moses is to be kept according to the letter, and that the keeping of the Sabbath ... and other legal observances, ought to take place. They hold also that Christ, the Son of God, is not equal with the Father, and that the Father, Son and Holy Ghost, these three ... are not one God and one substance; and as a surplus, to these errors, they judge and condemn all the doctors of the Church and universally the whole Roman Church ... (Eccl. Hist. of the Ancient Churches of Piedmont, pp. 168-169, cf. Dugger and Dodd, pp. 227-228).

Rome frequently and routinely accused all heretics of Judaizing, Manicheeism, urinating on crucifixes, sorcery, witchcraft, etc. (hence the term "witches' sabbath".)
You can't take it literally or seriously.

One English chronicle, when wanting to call a given English king pagan, actually calls him a "saracen" (ie Muslim) since terms like this (along with Jew, etc) would be thrown around simply to denote something un-Christian.

And let's be realistic. Where would Cathars even get the idea of a Sabbath?
Being apparently a neo-Gnostic movement, they likely saw the OT as evil, hence Jewish ideas like the sabbath would be evil - if indeed they were even aware of them. Scriptures were much less available in the past, what with the only copies generally being held by the Roman Church, and being in Latin.

 

[visionary]

Maoz Israel Ministries
History of Christ for the Nations Bible College in Dallas Texas

The same year that Christ For The Nations changed its named, 1967, Carole (Shira) Lindsay moved to Israel and became an Israeli citizen. In 1977, she married Ari Sorko-Ram and together they direct Maoz Israel Ministries, which began a year earlier. Shira and Ari have been pioneers of the Messianic Jewish movement in Israel and have published Maoz Israel Report since 1979.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyhdF4gUPUA

 

[visionary]

Rome frequently and routinely accused all heretics of Judaizing, Manicheeism, urinating on crucifixes, sorcery, witchcraft, etc. (hence the term "witches' sabbath".)
You can't take it literally or seriously.

One English chronicle, when wanting to call a given English king pagan, actually calls him a "saracen" (ie Muslim) since terms like this (along with Jew, etc) would be thrown around simply to denote something un-Christian.

And let's be realistic. Where would Cathars even get the idea of a Sabbath?
Being apparently a neo-Gnostic movement, they likely saw the OT as evil, hence Jewish ideas like the sabbath would be evil - if indeed they were even aware of them. Scriptures were much less available in the past, what with the only copies generally being held by the Roman Church, and being in Latin.

They were well aware of the Sabbath. They fought it every chance they got. They killed Sabbatarians just to eradicate the opposition to Sunday.

 

[visionary]

130 - 140 AD Epistle of Barnabas was written in Alexandria and it was first anti-Sabbath literature that I know of. It was soon after that believers in Alexandria replace Sabbath with Sunday.

The Epistle of Barnabas contains no clue to its author nor to those for whom it was intended. Its aim is to impart to its readers the perfect wisdom (gnosis), that is an exact knowledge of the economy of salvation. The author wishes to make his readers comprehend the real nature of the Old Testament. He shows how the ordinances of the Law should be understood as referring allegorically to the Christian virtues and institutions, and he pauses to make plain by a series of symbolical explanations, that are often singular, how the Old Testament prefigures Christ, His Passion, His Church, etc. According to many scholars he teaches that it was never intended that the precepts of the Law should be observed in their literal sense, that the Jews never had a covenant with God, that circumcision was the work of the Devil, etc.; thus he represents a unique point of view in the struggle against Judaism.

It might be said more exactly that he condemns the exercise of worship by the Jews in its entirety because in his opinion, the Jews did not know how to rise to the spiritual and typical meaning which God had mainly had in view in giving them the Law. It is this purely material observance of the ceremonial ordinances, of which the literal fulfilment was not sufficient, that the author holds to be the work of the Devil, and, according to him, the Jews never received the divine covenant because they never understood its nature.

Adrian in A.D. 130 for the reconstruction, in honour of Jupiter, of the Temple at Jerusalem, which had been destroyed by Titus. 135 AD Jerusalem was destroyed again. Jewish religion was banned. Adrian had forbidden the Jews to practise circumcision. The writer of the letter makes allusion to this in ch. 9:4 so best estimate makes the epistle written in around A.D. 130-131.

In Yeshua's believer's circles Sabbath was kept. It is significant in understanding that most historical material is going to be on the prevailing religions of that time and since then to now. In 144 AD Marcion, first great "Christian" heretic, promotes Sabbath fast which didn't help matters for the believers who were having less and less contact with the Messianic Jews who could help them out in these controversial issues of the time.

By 150 AD Justin Martyr reports Sunday observance by Roman Christians thus signifying it new major influence on the gentile community of believers.

The growing influence of sunday worship in political dominance during this time period can be shown through 218-222 AD when Emperor Elagabalus brings Syrian sun worship to Rome as an state instituted observance. By 270-275 AD Emperor Aurelian establishes sun worship as state religion of Rome. So then the tide turns on the believers who remain Sabbath keepers when in 284-305 AD Emperor Diocletian worships the sun and persecutes Christians who do not bow down to the state instituted religion.

So then we get to that famous moment in 306-337 AD when Constantine was the first Roman emperor to claim he is of the "Christian" religion. It is a far cry from the faith of Yeshua and His disciples.

By 313 AD Constantine legalizes this Christian religion. It is during this time [aprox. 314-335 AD] that Pope Sylvester I promotes anti-Jewish Sabbath fast to make it more impalpable to the believers. Now also during this time period around 320 AD according to Ethiopian church tradition two Syrian youth, Frumentius and Edesius are taken as slaves to the imperial court at about this time; they eventually planted the Christian faith there; Frumentius becomes first patriarch of Ethiopia.

It was 321 AD that the Edict of Constantine went into effect making it also first law concerning Sunday observance. Did you know that among the many things that the 343-381 AD Council of Laodicea authorized, one was reading of Gospels at Sabbath services and condemns Jewish form of Sabbath observance. This is not to say that there were not objections from the religious powers that be. In 364 AD Ambrose, bishop of Milan, prefers not to fast on Sabbath.

Fleeing for their lives, Sabbath keepers spread far and wide and 389-461 AD the life of Sabbath keeping Patrick, Celtic Christian missionary to Ireland spread the more Judaic version of the faith where ever he went, planting seeds and establishing congregations. This went on for over 100 years with Columba. 521-597 AD Columba, Celtic Christian missionary went to Scotland. Back in Rome around 590-604 AD Pope Gregory I identifies Sabbath keepers with anti-christ.

And I am sure this is not all that happened in the first 500 years after Yeshua.

 

[Hoshiyya]

They were well aware of the Sabbath. They fought it every chance they got. They killed Sabbatarians just to eradicate the opposition to Sunday.

Your insistence alone doesn't adress my assertions and call for realism. Rome routinely accused people of things like this. Are we supposed to believe every word that comes out of the pope's mouth?
That crucifix-urination, witchcraft and sabbatarianism (often hand in hand) ran rampant through Roman lands ?

 

[visionary]

Your insistence alone doesn't adress my assertions and call for realism. Rome routinely accused people of things like this. Are we supposed to believe every word that comes out of the pope's mouth?
That crucifix-urination, witchcraft and sabbatarianism (often hand in hand) ran rampant through Roman lands ?

Then we are in agreement

 

[Hoshiyya]

Then we are in agreement

No. Why even reply to a post you clearly didn't read ?
Or, why reply faceciously ?

 

[visionary]

No. Why even reply to a post you clearly didn't read ?
Or, why reply faceciously ?

I guess I do not see what you are getting at.