Messianic History

[visionary]

I think somewhere in this collection of people throughout history whom have shown a love of Messiah and Torah there is this fellow... but just in case I missed him.. The Talmudic Messianic Jew | Morning Meditations

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I think somewhere in this collection of people throughout history whom have shown a love of Messiah and Torah there is this fellow... but just in case I missed him.. The Talmudic Messianic Jew | Morning Meditations

Saw that one recently from Brother James on Facebook - and it was really enjoyable

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

As noted above, the Christianity which first reached France and Britian was of the school of the apostle John, who ruled the churches in Asia Minor. Colonists from Asia Minor laid the foundations of the pre-Patrick church. They brought with them the doctrine which they received of John, Paul, Philip, and the other apostles of the Lord, which included not only the observance of the seventh day Sabbath, but also the commemoration of Christ's death upon the 14th of Abib--Passover!

"It is probable that the primitive Christians kept the Pasch on the 14th of Nisan as determined by the Jewish authorities, and regarded it as the anniversary of the crucifixion. ...The churches of the Roman province of Asia...followed the older custom, keeping the Pasch on the 14th of Nisan, whatever the day of the week." (James F. Kenney, The Sources for the Early History of Ireland, Vol.1, pp.211, 212; Columbia University Press, New York, 1929)

"...they ignorantly refuse to observe our Easter [Pascha] on which Christ was sacrificed, arguing that it should be observed with the Hebrew Passover on the fourteenth of the moon." (Bede, Historia Ecclesiastica, II, 19 wherein Bede quoted "Pope" John's words concerning the Celtic brethren)

"The Roman Catholics have proudly and exclusively claimed St. Patrick, and most Protestants have ignorantly or indifferently allowed their claim...But he was no Romanist. His life and evangelical Church of the 5th century ought to be better known." (McClintock and Strong, Cyclopedia of Biblical, Theological, and Ecclesiastical Literature, Vol. VII, p.776; article: Patrick, St.)


Since the Church was still "together" at that time, it would seem Patrick was a follower of more Eastern Traditions than anything Roman. The Eastern Churches celebrated on the 14th just as John taught Polycarp to do. They did not celebrate the resurrection on that day but the last supper and cruxifiction just as Yeshua taught them to do...do THIS in remembrance of Me.

 

[Lulav]

It is confusing, as Luke is the only one who records this saying

'Do this in remembrance of me'

Luke wasn't there, neither was Paul but he is the only other one who said this and way before the gospels were written. So in reality this is a custom taught by Paul who wasn't even present during this meal!

 

[danny ski]

I think this thread is missing the other side of the coin. There're some notable names missing. Like Nicholas Donin or Petrus Alfonsi or Alfonso Burgensis, just to name three. The list is quite extensive. All despicable apostates who turned on Judaism and Jews after conversion and caused unimaginable harm and suffering throughout all diaspora over many centuries. If all converts are to be considered Messianic, should they not be examined warts and all?

 

[pat34lee]

I think this thread is missing the other side of the coin. There're some notable names missing. Like Nicholas Donin or Petrus Alfonsi or Alfonso Burgensis, just to name three. The list is quite extensive. All despicable apostates who turned on Judaism and Jews after conversion and caused unimaginable harm and suffering throughout all diaspora over many centuries. If all converts are to be considered Messianic, should they not be examined warts and all?

A convert would not be messianic unless they continued to keep the Torah and observe the feasts of YHWH.

Looking up the three names led me to this page:

http://www.revisionisthistory.org/essay6.html

 

[ContraMundum]

I think this thread is missing the other side of the coin. There're some notable names missing. Like Nicholas Donin or Petrus Alfonsi or Alfonso Burgensis, just to name three. The list is quite extensive. All despicable apostates who turned on Judaism and Jews after conversion and caused unimaginable harm and suffering throughout all diaspora over many centuries. If all converts are to be considered Messianic, should they not be examined warts and all?

Hyperbole much?

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

It is confusing, as Luke is the only one who records this saying

'Do this in remembrance of me'

Luke wasn't there, neither was Paul but he is the only other one who said this and way before the gospels were written. So in reality this is a custom taught by Paul who wasn't even present during this meal!

Ah but we have what John taught Polycarp and the Eastern churches to do...and he WAS there.

 

[Lulav]

Ah but we have what John taught Polycarp and the Eastern churches to do...and he WAS there.

Yet the Gospel of John never mentions this, and there is only a nod to a supper, but it is put before the Passover which is out of sync with the synoptic.

If he doesn't even consider the supper more significant than to mention the washing of the feet and the betrayal by Judas why would he teach this to Polycarp? Doesn't make much sense.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

There are lots of Church writings other than the 4 Gospels. Maybe you are a sola scriptura person? BTW, who put together those scriptures? ;-)

 

[visionary]

There are lots of Church writings other than the 4 Gospels. Maybe you are a sola scriptura person? BTW, who put together those scriptures? ;-)

I believe this group you find here, is a little more open to other writings and what they say. We explore what it available and have often discussed the contents here on MJ

 

[Chaplain David]

I think somewhere in this collection of people throughout history whom have shown a love of Messiah and Torah there is this fellow... but just in case I missed him.. The Talmudic Messianic Jew | Morning Meditations

Thank you for this Visionary. Shabbat Shalom.

 

[Lulav]

There are lots of Church writings other than the 4 Gospels. Maybe you are a sola scriptura person? BTW, who put together those scriptures? ;-)

Diversion, you used polycarp, I quoted from John's writings, do you have access to other writings of John that teach this?

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Diversion, you used polycarp, I quoted from John's writings, do you have access to other writings of John that teach this?

Diversion? I can use any source I want. I used the writings of a Church father.

 

[visionary]

Diversion? I can use any source I want. I used the writings of a Church father.

If it contradicts the prophets or apostles or Yeshua, I would question it.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

If it contradicts the prophets or apostles or Yeshua, I would question it.

Does it? Yeshua taught John and John taught Polycarp.

 

[visionary]

Does it? Yeshua taught John and John taught Polycarp.

So it is told.. time frame and location decrease chances of contact.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

So it is told.. time frame and location decrease chances of contact.

What? What are you talking about? BTW, Yeshua never wrote anything. What he said was put together by His followers. His followers were part of the early church and it was this church that put together the scriptures that you yourself and others here quote from. In fact, some say Polycarp was among the first to do so.

 

[visionary]

What? What are you talking about? BTW, Yeshua never wrote anything. What he said was put together by His followers. His followers were part of the early church and it was this church that put together the scriptures that you yourself and others here quote from. In fact, some say Polycarp was among the first to do so.

Check into Polycarp history a little closer... Read John's travels... then see if the time frame locations of the two cross.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Check into Polycarp history a little closer... Read John's travels... then see if the time frame locations of the two cross.

Other Church fathers also attest to Polycarp's discipleship under John. Polycarp was Bishop of Smyrna. This is well known. Iif you have evidence to the contrary then post it.