yeshuaslavejeff
simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Why ?
(I don't think I can reply fully in this section, even though my dad is Jewish, I didn't pick the Messianic label when I joined this forum)
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Why ?We all are looking in the mirror dark.. trying to figure it out.. most often from our own perspective.
jeff, you can always say something in the subheading under your name. For example, although I use "Catholic" rather than "MJ" for my ID, under my name I explain that I'm a Hebrew Catholic. If you specified you are a Jewish Christian, everything would be kosher. We love you!Why ?
(I don't think I can reply fully in this section, even though my dad is Jewish, I didn't pick the Messianic label when I joined this forum)
I agreeI have always been disappointed that when the history of the body of Messiah is spoken of it usually follows the romanistic history not the history of its Judastic roots. Yeshua was a Jew, not a Roman!!You'll all see my questions here in the future, I am really looking for the actual history of the body of Messiah not how rome overtook it and attempted to reform the empire in the guise of "religion". Indeed it is a major miricle that the truth survived that terrible time of attempts to "dejudize" christianity and remake it in the image of rome.
The upper room was attributed to the the same group John the Baptist hung out with in the wilderness.QUOTE="rockytopva, post: 70344036, member: 279443"]That is why I always emphasize 'my perspective' when talking this sort of thing.
Then said he unto them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old. - Matthew 13:52
It is hard to say the degree of truth in each household. But when we read and compare notes, I think we can all get away with better understandings.[/QUOTE
I think without information on the Ebionites is better than with it, just from what I read just now near the beginning of this one thread.
It was potentially very misleading information and could cause some to stumble in their pursuit of Faith and Life in Jesus
by being "instead" of the truth, and distracting from the truth, like a great many number of other groups and teachings also seem to do,
"on purpose" from the enemy of Christ.(varied groups already known and proven that were led astray in the past)
You should never be afraid of history nor of the strength of people's faith here on this forum.QUOTE="rockytopva, post: 70344036, member: 279443"]That is why I always emphasize 'my perspective' when talking this sort of thing.
Then said he unto them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old. - Matthew 13:52
It is hard to say the degree of truth in each household. But when we read and compare notes, I think we can all get away with better understandings.[/QUOTE
I think without information on the Ebionites is better than with it, just from what I read just now near the beginning of this one thread.
It was potentially very misleading information and could cause some to stumble in their pursuit of Faith and Life in Jesus
by being "instead" of the truth, and distracting from the truth, like a great many number of other groups and teachings also seem to do,
"on purpose" from the enemy of Christ.(varied groups already known and proven that were led astray in the past)
So ?You should never be afraid of history nor of the strength of people's faith here on this forum.
..The Desposyni demanded that Sylvester, who now had Roman patronage, revoke his confirmation of the authority of the Greek Christian bishops at Jerusalem, in Antioch, in Ephesus, and in Alexandria, and to name desposynos bishops to take their place.
Since it was Lulav's statement, I wonder what she has to add..I disagree with this. "Malachi Martin records a meeting between the Desposyni and Pope Sylvester I, but gives no source". That should bring suspicion regarding the truth of the story. Sylvester had no authority in the Eastern Orthodox Churches. He was bishop IN Rome...period. We had our own Bishops. There were Greek Bishops in Jerusalem since 135 AD because of the Bar Kokhba revolt and Hadrian's anti-Jewish laws, not because of something the Roman church or Bishop did. All of our Bishops in Jerusalem until 135 AD were Jewish.
I think you will find this an interesting read. The Yada Blog - brought to you by American Jewish LifeIt seems to me relatively fruitless to look for Messianic Judaism before it's appearance in the 19th Century. One can find groups perhaps with a similar emphasis of Law above or equal to Christ in certain sporadic groups before our time but to draw a direct connection between ancient and modern groups requires a continuity that cannot be established except by similarity in thought and not in real communion that the historic Church can be seen to possess.
Who was the first notable Messianic in the 19th century?
I think you will find this an interesting read. The Yada Blog - brought to you by American Jewish Life
So it can be safely said Messianicism as the movement we know today more or less had it's start with him?
I found this quite an interesting statement at the beginning of the article.So it can be safely said Messianicism as the movement we know today more or less had it's start with him?
It seems as an emerging Messianic Jew he did not hold highly the way of Rabbinical Judaism.He (Rabinovitch) complained that the Talmud and Jewish law were created by unelected and often unqualified rabbis; that they originally served to promote Jewish nationalism but were now often counterproductive; and, in general, that Judaism needed to take account of critical and rational thinking.
He did not merge Rabbinical Judaism with Messiah's message, he rejected Rabbinical Judaism and it's rejection of Messiah. He believed Judaism was being enlightened beyond Rabbinical Judaism and believed it was in fact Rabbinical Judaism's theology of rejection of Messiah that was in err. This shows me he did not intend to further Rabbinical Judaism but that an enlightenment occurred which made it possible to see Messiah was the essence of Judaism, as opposed to Rabbinical Judaism. In Rabbinical Judaism it is unthinkable to embrace the teachings of Messiah. He stripped the meat off RJ and zionist nationalism and combined that meat with the teachings of Messiah. That's the way I read it anyway.There was something the Jews were doing that was angering God — that was the only explanation for the continued persecution, for hundreds of years. That something, Rabinovitch finally concluded, was their rejection of Jesus 1850 years prior.
In 1884, Rabinovitch published his “Twelve Articles of Faith,” which quirkily combined traditional and nationalist Jewish ideas with uniquely Christological ones. On the one hand, Rabinovitch wrote, God made an eternal covenant with Abraham and promised his descendents the land of Israel. On the other hand, those descendents had angered God by rejecting Jesus. At an earlier time, said Rabinovitch, it would have been unthinkable to be a Jew who embraced the teachings of Christ. But now that both Judaism and Christianity had been better understood thanks to the teachings of enlightenment philosophy, it was possible to see that the essences of both teachings were the same, and finally embrace them.
No, there is a history of people throughout the centuries who followed this line of theology. The increase in popularity in recent history is attributed to another Jew.So it can be safely said Messianicism as the movement we know today more or less had it's start with him?
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