Measles

morse86

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That case was to decide whether or not Lanka had to pay the individual who proved that measles is a virus. The link you provided states that it was proven without doubt that measles is a virus. Lanka is a crackpot and nobody should be listening to anything he says about viruses.

Which nobel prize winner do you want to argue with today?

Peter Duesberg
David Rasnick
Kerry Mullis

The list goes on. Look up their credentials....they have been in this industry more than most lab technician virologists combined.
 
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JosephZ

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Which nobel prize winner do you want to argue with today?

Peter Duesberg
David Rasnick
Kerry Mullis

The list goes on. Look up their credentials....they have been in this industry more than most lab technician virologists combined.
If these people are denying the existence of viruses and downplaying the importance of vaccines, I don't care how many letters of the alphabet follow these people's names or what their credentials are. The nonsense they are peddling is dangerous and they are contributing to the spread and resurgence of deadly diseases by putting out misleading information to the general public.
 
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pitabread

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Which nobel prize winner do you want to argue with today?

Peter Duesberg
David Rasnick
Kerry Mullis

You can find crackpots in virtually every field; nothing impressive about that.

I'd put the majority weight of professionals in any given field against the fringe. Especially when you have crackpots like Mullis that actually believe in astrology of all things.
 
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USincognito

a post by Alan Smithee
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Which nobel prize winner do you want to argue with today?

Peter Duesberg
David Rasnick
Kerry Mullis

The list goes on. Look up their credentials....they have been in this industry more than most lab technician virologists combined.

It's so shocking to she conspiracy mongers appeal to authority. Shocking I say!
 
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dgiharris

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*snip*. I just wasted 20 minutes of my life trying to construct an argument that would/could show anti-vaxxers the error of their ways.

In a nutshell, my argument is simply this. Over the course of the last 100 years, hundreds of thousands of doctors, scientists, researchers, and academics have spent BILLIONS of man-hours trying to cure various types of diseases and ailments. Out of this community of professionals, 99.99% of them have concluded that XYZ is necessary and that XYZ will save lives and that XYZ will prevent countless deaths.

0.01% of the people in this profession claim that XYZ is unnecessary and that XYZ is harmful.

Now, which is more likely? Which do I want to base the health, safety, and welfare of my family on? Do I go with the 99.99% or do I go with the 0.01%

Furthermore, the evidence and data side with the 99.99%. The evidence and data does NOT side with the 0.01%.

now, the 0.01% uses anecdotal data and slight-of-hand analysis to lend credence to their arguments but it all falls apart under any close scrutiny...

What does it say about your psychological makeup that you believe in the 0.01% vs the 99.99%?
It is amazing how strongly being an anti-vaxxer correlates with believing the moon landings were fake and that the Earth is Flat and *insert conspiracy theory here*

I guess it is very gratifying to one's ego being the only one smart enough to see the truth and discover the conspiracy....
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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Growing number of measles outbreaks now a global problem | CBC News

The reason is the anti-vaxxer movement, which has lately been gaining strength and support from populist governments who share their science skepticism.

Before the MMR vaccine became widely available in 1980, the measles used to kill 2.6 million people every year. And the the WHO estimates that the two dose treatment has prevented 21.1 million deaths since 2000.

Nope and nope. NBC News: "It’s true that measles was eliminated in the United States in 2000 and all outbreaks now begin with an imported case."

7 Vaccine Myths Debunked by Doctors

Nope as to when vaccination began:

Measles vaccine began in 1963. Now you can't get the single vaccine alone, which would be much easier to sell. It is packaged as the much more problematic MMR.

Also nearly everyone today IS vaccinated: What is the history of measles vaccine in America - National Vaccine Information Center

"In the 2013-2014 school year, 95% of children entering kindergarten had gotten two MMR shots and so had more than 92% of school children between the ages of 13 and 17. "

"Less than 1% of very young children are unvaccinated."

Measles | Frequently Asked Questions about Measles in U.S. | CDC

A: "Before the measles vaccination program started in 1963, about 3 to 4 million people got measles each year in the United States. Of those people, 400 to 500 died."

So...not much has changed in that regard.

I see you really hate chiropractors. Your hatred is vastly misplaced. They are rarely seen for their medical advice as to vaccinations. Most just do back alignments and stay in their lane. A few discuss the sorts of things you mention, far too few to have an impact.
 
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sfs

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Nope and nope.
Your responses don't seem to be addressing the linked article.
"It’s true that measles was eliminated in the United States in 2000 and all outbreaks now begin with an imported case."

7 Vaccine Myths Debunked by Doctors

Nope as to when vaccination began:

Measles vaccine began in 1963.
Who said otherwise? The article says that before MMR became widely available in 1980 there were more cases. It doesn't say anything about when vaccination began.
Also nearly everyone today IS vaccinated: What is the history of measles vaccine in America - National Vaccine Information Center

"In the 2013-2014 school year, 95% of children entering kindergarten had gotten two MMR shots and so had more than 92% of school children between the ages of 13 and 17. "

"Less than 1% of very young children are unvaccinated."
Nearly everyone in the United States is vaccinated. The article is about declining vaccination rates in Europe and in various other countries around the world, not in the US.
A: "Before the measles vaccination program started in 1963, about 3 to 4 million people got measles each year in the United States. Of those people, 400 to 500 died."

So...not much has changed in that regard.
Huh? We've gone from millions of people to tens of people infected in the US yearly, and from hundreds of deaths to typically zero deaths. How is that not a change?
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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Nearly everyone in the United States is vaccinated. The article is about declining vaccination rates in Europe and in various other countries around the world, not in the US.

Huh? We've gone from millions of people to tens of people infected in the US yearly, and from hundreds of deaths to typically zero deaths. How is that not a change?

It is not much of a change at all in the number of deaths, relatively speaking to the number who get chicken pox.

Not to mention that the rates of infection were dropping precipitously throughout the 20th century well before a vaccine became available in the early 60s, as the bell curve of the century will show you (someone above posted it).

While a bout with measles wasn't enjoyable, it is better than short term immunity, and is a relatively mild illness for most people (there will always be exceptions to anything, including vaccine reactions).

How do you think the almost completely vaccinated population today (in the US, where most, but not all of us, live) keeps getting measles? Bingo. They don't get sick from healthy people who are not sick with the disease, unlike what the media pretends, as if every person without any particular vaccination is a walking time bomb infecting everyone within breathing range. It simply is a false narrative. Someone has to have the disease for others to get it. Sometimes the person has been infected by a foreign person bringing it in, but sometimes from the vaccine itself, which is weakened, but not dead. He can still spread it, which is why recipients are warned not to be around immuno-compromised people.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2014/04/measles-outbreak-traced-fully-vaccinated-patient-first-time

[Herpes zoster after varicella-zoster vaccination]. - PubMed - NCBI

(And it is not only chicken pox, interestingly)

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/201...cine-does-not-stop-spread-disease-lab-animals

Immunized People Getting Whooping Cough

My entire generation should be dead if you listen to the media. Most of our early 20th century parents (and grandparents) had zero vaccines, or maybe one or two, later in life. Yet, amazingly, most of us are still here.

Heck, I never even had the chicken pox. Yet when my kids got the chicken pox from some newly vaccinated kid (yeah, sure.."only happens to 5 percent" of kids, but since it is a live vaccine, it does happen and did happen to some home schooled kids we knew because they told everyone they just got it before being around a group), my doctor insisted on a titer, since I was an older parent who had never had the chicken pox at all.

I was completely immune because I was exposed in childhood even though neither I nor my siblings ever had chicken pox. Doctor informed me that nearly everyone in our (he was close in age) generation is completely immune from exposure. Well, we were able to take care of our kids just fine. Now they are immune for life too, thanks to the kid who got the vaccine and has the 5-10 year immunity.

Interestingly, the UK views this whole issue differently, in terms of cost-effectiveness for the population:

It is a live viral vaccine – and about 5 per cent of children who are vaccinated develop a mild chickenpox rash after vaccination and fever can occur, especially with the vaccine that is combined with MMR, MMRV.

All vaccines in the UK are assessed for their cost-effectiveness to ensure the health budget spent on services which provide the greatest health benefit for the population as a whole.

Some studies have indicated that the risk of shingles in older adults is reduced by exposure to children who have chickenpox during the adult’s life. This results in a boost of immune responses against the virus and delays the waning of immunity which would eventually lead to shingles.

Everything you need to know about chickenpox and why more countries don’t use the vaccine | University of Oxford
 
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sfs

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It is not much of a change at all in the number of deaths, relatively speaking to the number who get chicken pox.
We're talking about measles, not chicken pox. I also don't know what you mean. Both disease and deaths from measles have declined dramatically as a result of vaccination.
Not to mention that the rates of infection were dropping precipitously throughout the 20th century well before a vaccine became available in the early 60s, as the bell curve of the century will show you (someone above posted it).
False, as I showed above in post #36.
While a bout with measles wasn't enjoyable, it is better than short term immunity, and is a relatively mild illness for most people (there will always be exceptions to anything, including vaccine reactions).
It especially wasn't enjoyable if it left you dead, and it did many times. Why are you ignoring all of the deaths? 2.6 million deaths per year from measles worldwide. And that was in 1980, after this supposed precipitous drop in incidence. Do you really think 2.6 million deaths are negligible?
My entire generation should be dead if you listen to the media. Most of our early 20th century parents (and grandparents) had zero vaccines, or maybe one or two, later in life. Yet, amazingly, most of us are still here.
Of course most of us are still here. The millions who died -- well, who really cares about them anyway, right?
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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We're talking about measles, not chicken pox. I also don't know what you mean. Both disease and deaths from measles have declined dramatically as a result of vaccination.

Why are you ignoring all of the deaths? 2.6 million deaths per year from measles worldwide. And that was in 1980, after this supposed precipitous drop in incidence. Do you really think 2.6 million deaths are negligible?

Of course most of us are still here. The millions who died -- well, who really cares about them anyway, right?

Yes, measles. Wrong word. Right concept.

You are ignoring the bell curve.

You are also continually focusing on "deaths worldwide" because nearly everyone is vaccinated in first world countries and it is not happening on any large scale at all. Even the Disney scare, which the media played up as the next bubonic plague turned out to be very small in scale.

"The decline — a public health triumph, as measles has long been a leading killer of malnourished children" Measles Deaths Fall to a Record Low Worldwide

Let's fix the problems. The vaccination rates are not the issue here.
 
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Phil.Stein

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IMHO, anyone who doesn't have their children vaccinated should not be allowed into the public school system for that very reason.
IMHO, anyone whose children are prohibited from the public school system should also be exempted from the taxes which are said to fund said system, for that very reason.
 
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JosephZ

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"The decline — a public health triumph, as measles has long been a leading killer of malnourished children" Measles Deaths Fall to a Record Low Worldwide
It seems things have shifted in the other direction since the article you linked to was written.

“Complacency about the disease and the spread of falsehoods about the vaccine in Europe, a collapsing health system in Venezuela and pockets of fragility and low immunization coverage in Africa are combining to bring about a global resurgence of measles after years of progress." -- Dr Seth Berkley, CEO of Gavi, the Vaccine Alliance
Measles cases spike globally due to gaps in vaccination coverage

The WHO estimates that last year 110,000 people worldwide died of the disease and that reported cases have increased by about 30 percent since 2016.
Measles Cases Spike Globally And Hit Highest In 20 Years In Europe
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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It seems things have shifted in the other direction since the article you linked to was written.

“Complacency about the disease and the spread of falsehoods about the vaccine in Europe, a collapsing health system in Venezuela and pockets of fragility and low immunization coverage in Africa are combining to bring about a global resurgence of measles after years of progress." -- Dr Seth Berkley, CEO of Gavi, the Vaccine Alliance
Measles cases spike globally due to gaps in vaccination coverage

The WHO estimates that last year 110,000 people worldwide died of the disease and that reported cases have increased by about 30 percent since 2016.
Measles Cases Spike Globally And Hit Highest In 20 Years In Europe
This is extremely vague. How are "deaths related to the disease" defined?

Again with the worldwide. I know this "spike of cases" in the U.S. was limited to a couple hundred out of a population of (Edited to correct figure! 328,049,376) almost entirely vaccinated people. In the U.S., for instance, 220 measles cases have been reported so far this year as of Nov. 3, according to the CDC. There were 86 cases in all of 2016.

Most cases in the U.S. were in orthodox Jewish communities. Ok, let's look at that.

2018: Three outbreaks in New York State, New York City, and New Jersey, respectively, contributed to measles cases in 2018. Cases occurred primarily among unvaccinated people in Orthodox Jewish communities. These outbreaks were associated with travelers who brought measles back from Israel, where a large outbreak is occurring. Measles | Cases and Outbreaks | CDC

But a local paper reports high vaccination compliance, from a physician on the ground: Dr. Joseph Kaplovitz, pediatric specialist at NYU Langone Stepping Stones clinic in Borough Park: says " most of his Orthodox patients — roughly 95 percent, he estimated — have been immunized"https://brooklyneagle.com/articles/...yns-orthodox-jewish-areas-continues-to-climb/

Hmm.
 
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JackRT

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Again with the worldwide. I know this "spike of cases" in the U.S. was limited to a couple hundred out of a population of 7 billion almost entirely vaccinated people

Please check your figure for USA population.
 
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Justatruthseeker

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Here is the rub....

If you take antibiotics the bacteria eventually gain a resistance and mutate into a different strain of that bacteria, in the end forming bacteria harder to eradicate and more harmful to humans.

So...... if you take anti-virals, such as the flu shot every year when you don’t have the flu.......
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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Please check your figure for USA population.
Oops. That's basically the world population, not the USA population. My error. Will correct.

Interestingly (to me, anyway), the live population counter keeps adding another person before I can even finish typing the number.
 
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JosephZ

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This is extremely vague. How are "deaths related to the disease" defined?
Pneumonia and Encephalitis are the most common complications associated with measles, so deaths from those diseases would be included. Regardless, had the individual not contracted measles in the first place, they wouldn't have fallen victim to the other illnesses.

Let's fix the problems.
One of the biggest problems is those who downplay the seriousness of measles and spread falsehoods about vaccines.

Measles outbreaks now a global problem thanks to anti-vaxxers
Growing number of measles outbreaks now a global problem | CBC News
 
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sfs

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You are ignoring the bell curve.
What bell curve?
You are also continually focusing on "deaths worldwide" because nearly everyone is vaccinated in first world countries and it is not happening on any large scale at all.
I focus on deaths worldwide because I care about deaths worldwide, both personally and professionally. I study infectious diseases for a living, and mostly ones that kill children in poorer parts of the world. Is there some reason I shouldn't be focusing on trying to prevent the deaths of those children? Vaccination has greatly reduced those deaths, and that's a good thing. The point of the article (and the point of this thread) is that it is no longer true that nearly everyone is vaccinated in some parts of the first world, and that that's a bad thing. You have yet to post anything that disputes either part of that.
"The decline — a public health triumph, as measles has long been a leading killer of malnourished children"
That's quite true. Measles vaccination is much more effective at saving lives of the malnourished than of the well-fed. That's why only a few hundred children died in the US per year prior to the adoption of the vaccine rather than thousands or millions. But hundreds of prevented deaths are still a good thing, right?
 
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Phil.Stein

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Also -- speaking as someone who studies viral outbreaks for a living, any biologist who thinks viruses don't cause disease is genuinely insane.
I read a book once that said that despite all the hype, viruses have not yet even been proven to exist. Is this still true? If so, can you point to a reference study proving that viruses exist? (i.e. virus isolated homogenously under an electron microscope, and with this homogenous virus material injected, causing the symptoms in the host organism the virus is said to cause?)
 
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