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Maybe, "three nights and three days" ?

Discussion in 'Messianic Judaism' started by AbbaLove, Mar 17, 2016.

  1. AbbaLove

    AbbaLove Circumcision of the Heart is Messianic

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    As usual your timeline is again faulty. As gadar perets has already eluded the "last supper" of Yeshua and His Disciples was a pre-Seder that He and His Disciples ate at the beginning of the 14th of Abib/Nisan. You come here as a guest unwilling to ask questions and learn; while attempting to teach Messianics that have a better understanding of the Tanakh and Ketuvei HaShalichim (Brit Chadashah) than do you.

    Even common sense will provide someone with an unbiased awareness that gadar perets is right while you still seem confused.
     
  2. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    I think you mean "alluded" (pointed to) instead of "eluded." (avoided)
     
  3. AFrazier

    AFrazier Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Someone keeps lodging complaints, and I am no longer permitted to debate on this thread. Bye folks.
     
  4. AbbaLove

    AbbaLove Circumcision of the Heart is Messianic

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    Very perceptive! So when gadar perets says "pre-Seder" it's his way of skillfully eluding what otherwise could become a contentious debate. As you're well aware 99.9% of Pesach Seders attended by Messianic Jews follow along with their own copy of the order of the Haggadah believing that it is similar to what Yeshua and His Disciples observed (Luke 22:15), except for foot washing which is not included in the Jewish Haggadah.

    For non-Jews that may not know ... the Haggadah is a Jewish text that sets forth the order of the Passover Seder meal as celebrated in Jewish Synagogues during the Feast of Pesach/Unleavened Bread ... The 30 Minute Seder
     
  5. AbbaLove

    AbbaLove Circumcision of the Heart is Messianic

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    It doesn't surprise me, but just so you know it wasn't me. Had hoped that you would soon see the futility of your reasoning bias in this MJ forum and stop posting.

    Where you failed is not providing convincing proof that 3-4 hrs of daylight on friday, plus 12 hrs of daylight on saturday, plus a few minutes of daylight on sunday morning somehow qualifies as "after three days" (Mark 9:31). Or "three days" (Matthew 12:40) when there is just as much, if not more, reason to believe that Yeshua arose before sunrise and therefore before the beginning of another 12 hrs of daytime.

    Because you avoided/failed to convince MJs that 12 hrs friday night and 12 hrs saturday night somehow qualified as "three nights" (Matthew 12:40) it only became more and more apparent from your posts that your research was lacking in due diligence.
     
  6. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    Since the current Orthodox Haggadah is based on the outline set down by Hillel in the late first century bc, it is fairly close if you delete a lot of the "fluff" additions and readings.

    https://www.amazon.com/Messianic-Passover-Haggadah-David-Waggoner-ebook/dp/B00BL5XNFM
     
  7. visionary

    visionary Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I. Supporter

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    According to Col 2:16-18 it does.. it is the very embodiment of Yeshua.

    Colossians 2 King James Version (KJV)
    2 For I would that ye knew what great conflict I have for you, and for them at Laodicea, and for as many as have not seen my face in the flesh; 2 That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; 3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. 4 And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words. 5 For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ. 6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: 7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. 8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: 11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: 12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; 15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. 16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
     
  8. AbbaLove

    AbbaLove Circumcision of the Heart is Messianic

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    And that ain't elusive, but whether old or young we do seem to like the colorful illustrations via a 4-color Offset Printing Press ...
    [​IMG]
    than the handsome blackish brown quill penmanship "set down by Hillel in the late first century bc,". Some might allude or elude to the possibility that "Messiancs" have become spoiled by machine technology. Supposedly Rabbinic Judaism is now experimenting with Hebrew Sefer Torah Scrolls printed using Silk Screen machinery, but is it Kosher anymore than the following machine operation ? ...

    Robot Writes Complete Torah Scroll - Could It Be Kosher For Ritual Use?

    [​IMG]

    If the robot had instead written on kosher animal hide and used a Kosher quill pen
    would the Torah programmed by an Orthodox Rabbi then be Kosher for ritual use?

    <B>Robot Writes Complete Torah Scroll - Could It Be Kosher For Ritual Use?</B>
     
  9. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    It would probably depend on which Orthodox community you asked. I am sure all Messianic, all Reform, probably all Conservative and maybe even Modern Orthodox.

    The Haredi and Chassids, probably not.
     
  10. gadar perets

    gadar perets Messianic Hebrew

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    Sorry to hear that. Feel free to PM me the reference requests I made.
     
  11. davidbenephraim

    davidbenephraim Member

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    In the year that Yeshua was crucified, the Biblical Passover (Abib/Nisan 14) began at sundown on Tuesday that week. The rabbinic Passover which was and still is observed on Abib/Nisan 15 began at sundown on Wednesday. Anyway, Yeshua was arrested and put on trial by the Sanhedrin during the night of what we Americans call Tuesday night. I believe Yeshua died by crucifixion at 3:00 pm Wednesday afternoon on Abib/Nisan 14. Keep in mind the Pharisees observed Passover at sunset beginning the 24 hour period of Abib/Nisan 15. Therefore, I believe Yeshua's body was in the tomb as follows:

    Wednesday night (sunset to sunrise): 1st night in the tomb
    Thursday (sunrise to sunset): 1st day in the tomb
    Thursday night (sunset to sunrise): 2nd night in the tomb
    Friday (sunrise to sunset): 2nd day in the tomb
    Friday night (sunset to sunrise): 3rd night in the tomb
    Shabbat/Saturday (sunrise to sunset): 3rd day in the tomb

    Yeshua's resurrection occurred at approximately 3:00 pm on the Sabbath day. When Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of Yeshua came to His tomb early on Sunday morning, Yeshua was already resurrected. Keep in mind that the scripture says (in Matthew 28, Mark 16, Luke 24, and John 20) that the women who went to Yeshua's tomb early on Sunday morning found His tomb empty. The scripture doesn't actually say that Yeshua's resurrection occurred early on Sunday morning. The traditional belief that Yeshua was resurrected early on Sunday morning is merely an assumption based on what I believe is a misreading of the Bible.

    Also, it must be kept in mind that the guards who arrested Yeshua in the Garden of Gethsemane were Jewish Temple Guards. The Sanhedrin used the Jewish Temple Guards as a police force to enforce Jewish law. It was also Jewish Temple Guards posted outside Yeshua's tomb which explains how chief priests and elders of the Jews were able to bribe these guards to lie about Yeshua's resurrection. I mean if Roman soldiers had said they were asleep while on duty, Pontius Pilate would have had those Roman soldiers crucified and they wouldn't have lived long enough to spend the money they received as a bribe.

    Shalom,

    David
     
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