Maybe I belong here?

[k4c]

If you believe the SDA has roots in Babylon based off of your list...

I didn't get a chance to finish my reply.

 

[Aibrean]

I don't know how it makes SDA have more light. What you are basing "light" on is Biblical interpretation and the prophecy of a woman who has had incorrect visions. That does not necessarily mean your Biblical interpretation is correct. I'm not here to debate it, of course, but that's why there are so many different denominations - people interpret the Bible differently. That's why the church of Christ is the body of believers - not a denomination. If we believe in Christ and confess it, that is all we need for our salvation. Good works and following Christ's examples are secondary and a natural progression to living in the Spirit. If I view something as unclean, then for me it is. That doesn't mean it is for everyone (Romans 14). My faith leads me.

As Ellen White herself said,
“The testimonies of Sister White should not be carried to the front. God's Word is the unerring standard. The Testimonies are not to take the place of the Word... Let all prove the positions from the Scriptures and substantiate every point they claim as truth from the revealed Word of God.”

 

[Avonia]

That's why the church of Christ is the body of believers - not a denomination. If we believe in Christ and confess it, that is all we need for our salvation.

What's interesting about that belief is that a minority of people now - and throughout history - have even been exposed to the idea. So I hope that's not a criteria either.

It seems a simpler and more comprehensive way to look at it is that a parent does whatever is necessary to help a child. Whether they "believe" it or not, or whether they are aware of it or not.

On another note, the name "Church of Christ" has to be the best name - ever - for a Christian church. I love it.

 

[ricker]

As I said, basically all denominations teach the same stuff.

Going to heaven or a burning hell at death.

Immortality of the soul.

Sunday worship in celebration of Jesus' resurrection.

Seventh day Sabbath changed to Sunday.

Seven years of tribulation.

Secret rapture.

Jesus' birth on December 25th.

Easter is the memorial of Jesus' resurrection.

Just to name a few.....

Many, many denominations don't believe in the list you have provided. Christian denominations have a hugely varied understanding of the things you have listed. To equate the doctrines of RC church with the Assemblies of God is just crazy. They are not "basically" the same.

Refresh my memory as to what the Bible says the attributes of "Babylon" are.

 

[k4c]

Many, many denominations don't believe in the list you have provided. Christian denominations have a hugely varied understanding of the things you have listed. To equate the doctrines of RC church with the Assemblies of God is just crazy. They are not "basically" the same.

Refresh my memory as to what the Bible says the attributes of "Babylon" are.

For a start you can go here because there is a lot for you to learn. Prophe cy

 

[Sophia7]

As I said, basically all denominations teach the same stuff.

Going to heaven or a burning hell at death.

Immortality of the soul.

Sunday worship in celebration of Jesus' resurrection.

Seventh day Sabbath changed to Sunday.

Seven years of tribulation.

Secret rapture.

Jesus' birth on December 25th.

Easter is the memorial of Jesus' resurrection.

Just to name a few.....

Except all demoninations don't teach that stuff, and I find it difficult to believe that you don't know that. Your assertation that my church teaches what I know it doesn't teach is personally offensive to me.

Mine doesn't teach all that stuff either. I wouldn't have joined a church that taught that stuff as doctrine. K4C obviously isn't as knowledgeable about the teachings of other churches as he thinks he is.

 

[k4c]

I don't know how it makes SDA have more light. What you are basing "light" on is Biblical interpretation and the prophecy of a woman who has had incorrect visions. That does not necessarily mean your Biblical interpretation is correct. I'm not here to debate it, of course, but that's why there are so many different denominations - people interpret the Bible differently. That's why the church of Christ is the body of believers - not a denomination. If we believe in Christ and confess it, that is all we need for our salvation. Good works and following Christ's examples are secondary and a natural progression to living in the Spirit. If I view something as unclean, then for me it is. That doesn't mean it is for everyone (Romans 14). My faith leads me.

As Ellen White herself said,
“The testimonies of Sister White should not be carried to the front. God's Word is the unerring standard. The Testimonies are not to take the place of the Word... Let all prove the positions from the Scriptures and substantiate every point they claim as truth from the revealed Word of God.”

Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

 

[Sophia7]

Show me where I'm wrong. Basically all denominations teach at least one or all of what I said.

My church teaches none of those things as doctrine. Some people there may believe some of those things, but none of them are required for membership, and I can't even remember hearing any of them preached from the pulpit. Your generalizations are inaccurate.

 

[Aibrean]

Jesus' birthday, tribulation, immortal spirits, where the body goes at death have absolutely nothing about keeping the law. My post wasn't even about keeping the law.

 

[k4c]

My church teaches none of those things as doctrine. Some people there may believe some of those things, but none of them are required for membership, and I can't even remember hearing any of them preached from the pulpit. Your generalizations are inaccurate.

Most preachers today stay away from controversy. Just the other day I shared with a local pastor of a growing church the truth about the Sabbath. He said he didn't really bring these issues up. But then I asked him what he would say if someone asked him about it. His reply was, "Nobody ever asked those questions" and left it at that. He had the same view on the state of the dead. He told me that if I wanted to attend his church that would be fine but I just wouldn't be allowed to teach.

Just because you don't hear these things being taught does not mean you should just let the boat drift where it wants. We need to study so that we can give an account of why we believe what we believe. There is a truth to stand on in these matters.

 

[k4c]

Jesus' birthday, tribulation, immortal spirits, where the body goes at death have absolutely nothing about keeping the law. My post wasn't even about keeping the law.

It's about light....

If you are teaching the Ten Commandments are done away with or have been nailed to the cross then you have no light to start with so there is no need to go any further.

 

[Sophia7]

Most preachers today stay away from controversy. Just the other day I shared with a local pastor of a growing church the truth about the Sabbath. He said he didn't really bring these issues up. But then I asked him what he would say if someone asked him about it. His reply was, "Nobody ever asked those questions" and left it at that. He had the same view on the state of the dead. He told me that if I wanted to attend his church that would be fine but I just wouldn't be allowed to teach.

Just because you don't hear these thing being taught does not mean you should just let the boat drift where it wants. We need to study so that we can give an account of why we believe what we believe. There is a truth to stand on in these matters.

You really should stop making assumptions and generalizations. Do you really believe that people who disagree with you do so because they don't study? Yes, there is truth to stand on, and the Seventh-day Adventist Church on many points doesn't stand on it.

As for our current church, I know what people believe, and I know what is being taught. I know because I've talked to them about it, and if I disagree with something, I still stand up for what I believe. And the boat is not just drifting wherever it wants. God is there, too, guiding the boat and leading His people.

As for not being able to teach if you don't agree with the pastor, that's not true in every denomination or church. My husband teaches Sunday School sometimes at our church, and I teach kids' classes every Wednesday night. We openly discuss many issues with the pastor and with other members (coming from an Adventist background, we have had to study many things that are not even on the radar of most other Christians and many things that I wish I didn't have to study, but I still do), and no one cares if we disagree with them on things like hell. It's not a doctrine of the church, and it's not required for membership or teaching, nor are those other things that you listed. Most people at our current church don't even believe in a secret rapture and a seven-year tribulation; fewer Christians than you think take that view. Also, fewer Christians than you think take the view that the Sabbath commandment is still binding and that Sunday is the Christian Sabbath. All of non-Adventist Christianity simply can't be defined by that narrow list of beliefs that you posted.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

You really should stop making assumptions and generalizations. Do you really believe that people who disagree with you do so because they don't study? Yes, there is truth to stand on, and the Seventh-day Adventist Church on many points doesn't stand on it.

As for our current church, I know what people believe, and I know what is being taught. I know because I've talked to them about it, and if I disagree with something, I still stand up for what I believe. And the boat is not just drifting wherever it wants. God is there, too, guiding the boat and leading His people.

As for not being able to teach if you don't agree with the pastor, that's not true in every denomination or church. My husband teaches Sunday School sometimes at our church, and I teach kids' classes every Wednesday night. We openly discuss many issues with the pastor and with other members (coming from an Adventist background, we have had to study many things that are not even on the radar of most other Christians and many things that I wish I didn't have to study, but I still do), and no one cares if we disagree with them on things like hell. It's not a doctrine of the church, and it's not required for membership or teaching, nor are those other things that you listed. Most people at our current church don't even believe in a secret rapture and a seven-year tribulation; fewer Christians than you think take that view. Also, fewer Christians than you think take the view that the Sabbath commandment is still binding and that Sunday is the Christian Sabbath. All of non-Adventist Christianity simply can't be defined by that narrow list of beliefs that you posted.

My experience has been quite similar. In fact, in the church where I attend, folks are all over the map on a number of issues (such as the arminian/calvinism debate). We disagree openly and calmly.

BFA

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Going to heaven or a burning hell at death.

The church I attend has no official position on this.

Immortality of the soul.

The church I attend has no official position on this.

Sunday worship in celebration of Jesus' resurrection.

The church I attend has no official position on this. However, I would wonder why any church would be opposed to this. Every day of the week is an excellent opportunity to worship our great God.

Seventh day Sabbath changed to Sunday.

The church I attend specifically refutes this.

Secret rapture.

The church I attend specifically refutes this.

Jesus' birth on December 25th.

The church I attend specifically refutes this.

Easter is the memorial of Jesus' resurrection.

What is your issue with remembering Jesus' resurrection? You've now mentioned it twice and you've implied that it's a bad thing.

BFA

 

[VictorC]

As I said, basically all denominations teach the same stuff.

Oh, really?

Going to heaven or a burning hell at death.

We teach mortal torment at the Hands of an Angry God, that we would face if it were not for the provision of God's propitiation motivated by His mercy.

Immortality of the soul.

We accept Scripture at its face value:

Matthew 22
31 "But concerning the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was spoken to you by God, saying,
32 `I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living."​

Sunday worship in celebration of Jesus' resurrection.

We teach the liberty we have in Christ's adoption to assemble at any time; we do not worship a day as Paul expressed concern over in Galatians 4:10-11.

Seventh day Sabbath changed to Sunday.

We teach that the sabbath was a shadow (Colossians 2:16-17) that was abolished along with the entire first covenant it was a component of. We have entered into God's permanent rest, and have left the shadow you still grovel to.

Seven years of tribulation.

There is only a 3.5 year period of great tribulation at the hands of the fourth beast mentioned in Daniel 7 and again in Revelation 13: "he was given authority to continue for forty-two months". We further identify this beast, which stands in the presence of the still-existing previous beasts (Daniel 7:7, 7:12), and didn't come into existence until 1945 - unless that model is found defective when it is replaced by a more accurate model as time progresses.

Secret rapture.

We teach that the pre-trib rapture is an unBiblical myth that originated with Margaret MacDonald in 1830, and promoted by the Darbyites of that era in England and Scotland.

Jesus' birth on December 25th.

We suspect Jesus was born on the Feast of Trumpets in September, but have no proof to nail down any date.

Easter is the memorial of Jesus' resurrection.

Actually, it was to commemorate the goddess Ishtar, the reason Easter and Passover fell on different dates as recorded in Acts 12:4, the only time Easter is mentioned in Scripture.

Just to name a few.....

Sophia7's response was so good I am compelled to copy what she wrote:

My church teaches none of those things as doctrine. Some people there may believe some of those things, but none of them are required for membership, and I can't even remember hearing any of them preached from the pulpit. Your generalizations are inaccurate.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Your generalizations are inaccurate.

This now seems to be quite clear!

BFA

 

[Sophia7]

My experience has been quite similar. In fact, in the church where I attend, folks are all over the map on a number of issues (such as the arminian/calvinism debate). We disagree openly and calmly.

BFA

Yes, I've seen much more open diversity of beliefs in other churches than in Adventism--not that it doesn't exist in Adventism, too, but it's not as accepted in many Adventist churches.

 

[VictorC]

It's about light....

If you are teaching the Ten Commandments are done away with or have been nailed to the cross then you have no light to start with so there is no need to go any further.

If you deny our deliverance from the Ten Commandments as stated in Romans 7:6-7, you place yourself outside of God's redemption and force a return to Judaism and the priesthood required to keep the sabbath holy according to the law. That priesthood excludes Jesus Christ, as shown in Hebrews 7:

11 Therefore, if perfection were through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need was there that another priest should rise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be called according to the order of Aaron?
12 For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law.
13 For He of whom these things are spoken belongs to another tribe, from which no man has officiated at the altar.
14 For it is evident that our Lord arose from Judah, of which tribe Moses spoke nothing concerning priesthood.
15 And it is yet far more evident if, in the likeness of Melchizedek, there arises another priest
16 who has come, not according to the law of a fleshly commandment, but according to the power of an endless life.​

To keep the sabbath holy, one must return to the Levitical priesthood who brought it to you. Doing so is to depart from Jesus Christ, Who officiates under a Priesthood not authorized by the law.

 

[VictorC]

Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Both of these verses disqualify the seventh-day Adventist church as the remnant of God.

 

[VictorC]

Maybe I belong here?
...
I don't read Ellen White, nor do I believe that it's important to. I've been told she's written some neat stuff, but only one book matters, and that's the Holy Bible, and only one person matters, and that's Jesus.

We have a thread active on the denomination-specific theology forum area of CF, and you might have a fun time perusing some of the unique beliefs of the seventh-day Adventist church here --> What are 7th day adventists?

I've been watching to see if you have any interest in the doctrines of the SDA church, and have seen no new entries on the thread I linked.