Maybe I belong here?

[Sophia7]

Sophia,

My copy of the KJV does not have any numbers with the record of what the Lord, our God, said at Mt. Sinai. Numbers are with divisions of verses, but that does not follow each "thou shall not."

The verses were not numbered originally either. Those numbers, as well as the numbers used to divide the ten commandments, were added later. If you were to divide the ten commandments by the "thou shalt nots," the part about graven images would be split into two commandments, and so would the part about coveting. The parts about the Sabbath and honoring mother and father don't even include the "thou shalt not" phrase. Without the traditional numbers (of whatever tradition we accept) that have been supplied for us, it wouldn't be as easy as some people might think to see how the Decalogue should be divided. It's not surprising that different churches have historically disagreed on that.

Also, in my copy, the prohibition against idolatry has a section concerning our Lord being a jealous God, visiting iniquity...showing mercy.... I did not see this part in the Catechism of the Catholic church. Did I miss this part?

That part of Exodus 20 is quoted here. The catechism doesn't remove it from the Bible.

 

[StormyOne]

The verses were not numbered originally either. Those numbers, as well as the numbers used to divide the ten commandments, were added later. If you were to divide the ten commandments by the "thou shalt nots," the part about graven images would be split into two commandments, and so would the part about coveting. The parts about the Sabbath and honoring mother and father don't even include the "thou shalt not" phrase. Without the traditional numbers (of whatever tradition we accept) that have been supplied for us, it wouldn't be as easy as some people might think to see how the Decalogue should be divided. It's not surprising that different churches have historically disagreed on that.



That part of Exodus 20 is quoted here. The catechism doesn't remove it from the Bible.

You have accurately pointed out that some cling to a tradition to make a point. That is why it is important to understand how the bible came to be, what was included or excluded as well as why, and to realize that in the original text there were no chapters nor verses....

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

So what you're saying is that I'm right.

What I'm pointing out is that there are churches that expressly reject everything that you claim "all denominations" teach, and by those very standards, have more light than the SDA's.

 

[k4c]

What I'm pointing out is that there are churches that expressly reject everything that you claim "all denominations" teach, and by those very standards, have more light than the SDA's.

The list I gave was not an all or nothing list. Some denomination may teach one or two from the list while others may teach more but either way the SDA has more light because they teach less than what's on the list than others. Did you catch that?

 

[Aibrean]

You can boast about how much light you have but "a" light is more important than no light. If I believe Jesus Christ is the son of God (and is God), the only begotten son of the Father, and he saved me from my sins, and I confess it readily I have light. That's all the light we need.

As I said, your "light" concept is only subjective to what you believe is accurate through your interpretation of the Bible. That doesn't mean it is accurate.

You worry about all the stuff you are doing and you will forget about Jesus. That's the way I see it and that's the way I've seen it from my SDA family. There is no love. There are only rules and regulations. I've never heard my husband's mother talk about Jesus once.

 

[Joe67]

The verses were not numbered originally either. Those numbers, as well as the numbers used to divide the ten commandments, were added later. If you were to divide the ten commandments by the "thou shalt nots," the part about graven images would be split into two commandments, and so would the part about coveting. The parts about the Sabbath and honoring mother and father don't even include the "thou shalt not" phrase. Without the traditional numbers (of whatever tradition we accept) that have been supplied for us, it wouldn't be as easy as some people might think to see how the Decalogue should be divided. It's not surprising that different churches have historically disagreed on that.



That part of Exodus 20 is quoted here. The catechism doesn't remove it from the Bible.

Sophia,

Thank you for the link. Within that format it is easier to see that all are using the same words and that without the numerical aids it would be all one continuous flow of thought and that numbering the communication is the problem.

When the Lord spoke the part about not coveting, the 12 tribes could not bear the feeling of death that attended the communication and asked for him to stop speaking to them. Thus the Lord said no more.

In regard to the sabbath not having a "you shall not", there is a "you shall not" in the middle of the thought.
Ex 20:10
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work..., KJV

The part concerning the stones being written on both their sides is almost never considered. Yet it is important for the book in the right hand of the one who sits on the throne in Revelation 5 is written within and on the backside.

Ex 32:15
15 And Moses turned, and went down from the mount, and the two tables of the testimony were in his hand: the tables were written on both their sides; on the one side and on the other were they written. KJV

Rev 5:1
1 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals. KJV

Joe

 

[ricker]

The list I gave was not an all or nothing list. Some denomination may teach one or two from the list while others may teach more but either way the SDA has more light because they teach less than what's on the list than others. Did you catch that?

This sounds different from what you said:
"They all basically teach the same stuff that has it's roots in Babylon. "

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

The list I gave was not an all or nothing list. Some denomination may teach one or two from the list while others may teach more but either way the SDA has more light because they teach less than what's on the list than others. Did you catch that?

Some teach none at all, less than the SDA's. Did you catch that?

 

[k4c]

This sounds different from what you said:
"They all basically teach the same stuff that has it's roots in Babylon. "

The key word is, basically.

Just about evey church keeps Sunday, which has its roots in Babylon.

 

[Aibrean]

That doesn't mean it is Babylon.

 

[ricker]

The key word is, basically.

Just about evey church keeps Sunday, which has its roots in Babylon.

You're wrong.

Give me a Bible text or two showing me how worshipping Jesus on the first day of the week is "Babylon".


Relatively few denominations actually teach we need to "keep Sunday".

I was employed by a very religious Catholic gentleman who would work, and have us work, occasionally on Sunday.

Have you ever noticed how many Christian people are working and buying on Sunday? I personally have a part time job on Sunday afternoons. Very, very few pastors I know would take exception to that. My pastor doesn't.

 

[Sophia7]

You're wrong.

Give me a Bible text or two showing me how worshipping Jesus on the first day of the week is "Babylon".


Relatively few denominations actually teach we need to "keep Sunday".

I was employed by a very religious Catholic gentleman who would work, and have us work, occasionally on Sunday.

Have you ever noticed how many Christian people are working and buying on Sunday? I personally have a part time job on Sunday afternoons. Very, very few pastors I know would take exception to that. My pastor doesn't.

I agree. Going to church on Sunday certainly doesn't equal "keeping Sunday."

 

[k4c]

I agree. Going to church on Sunday certainly doesn't equal "keeping Sunday."

You see, it really doesn't matter what individual people believe or don't believe. If you do your research you will find that God's word is true. The prophecies of God are sure and steadfast and lead us in the direction of what we should believe.

God tells us to remember to keep the seventh day holy. He tell us how the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God and how the seventh day is set aside for sacred assembly.

If you are not obeying God in this matter it really doesn't matter what else you do or believe or don't believe. I can tell you there is a spiritual force in the world that is working to distort the truth of the seventh day. Persecution has come as a result of keeping the seventh day holy. Force has been used to enforce the first day. This is not of God and anyone who follows, agrees or denies this is following after the beast.

Look here and you will get a small glimps of the big picture.

http://looking4jesus.com/End-Time-Persecution.html

 

[k4c]

You're wrong.

Give me a Bible text or two showing me how worshipping Jesus on the first day of the week is "Babylon".

Relatively few denominations actually teach we need to "keep Sunday".

I was employed by a very religious Catholic gentleman who would work, and have us work, occasionally on Sunday.

Have you ever noticed how many Christian people are working and buying on Sunday? I personally have a part time job on Sunday afternoons. Very, very few pastors I know would take exception to that. My pastor doesn't.

We can and should worship Jesus everyday but the foundation of worship is seen in obedience. If we are truly worshiping God we will remember to keep the seventh day holy as He has commanded.

You see, it really doesn't matter what individual people believe or don't believe. If you do your research you will find that God's word is true. The prophecies of God are sure and steadfast and lead us in the direction of what we should believe.

God tells us to remember to keep the seventh day holy. He tell us how the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God and how the seventh day is set aside for sacred assembly.

If you are not obeying God in this matter it really doesn't matter what else you do or believe or not believe. I can tell you there is a spiritual force in the world that is working to distort the truth of the seventh day. Persecution has come as a result of keeping the seventh day holy. Force has been used to enforce the first day. This is not of God and anyone who follows, agrees or denies this is following after the beast.

Look here and you will get a small glimps of the big picture.

http://looking4jesus.com/End-Time-Persecution.html

 

[Aibrean]

Where exactly does he tell us how to observe the Sabbath?

 

[ricker]

We can and should worship Jesus everyday but the foundation of worship is seen in obedience. If we are truly worshiping God we will remember to keep the seventh day holy as He has commanded.

You see, it really doesn't matter what individual people believe or don't believe. If you do your research you will find that God's word is true. The prophecies of God are sure and steadfast and lead us in the direction of what we should believe.

God tells us to remember to keep the seventh day holy. He tell us how the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God and how the seventh day is set aside for sacred assembly.

If you are not obeying God in this matter it really doesn't matter what else you do or believe or not believe. I can tell you there is a spiritual force in the world that is working to distort the truth of the seventh day. Persecution has come as a result of keeping the seventh day holy. Force has been used to enforce the first day. This is not of God and anyone who follows, agrees or denies this is following after the beast.

Look here and you will get a small glimps of the big picture.

[URL]http://looking4jesus.com/End-Time-Persecution.html[/URL]

12 Then the LORD said to Moses, 13 "Say to the Israelites, 'You must observe my Sabbaths. This will be a sign between me and you for the generations to come, so you may know that I am the LORD, who makes you holy.
14 " 'Observe the Sabbath, because it is holy to you. Anyone who desecrates it must be put to death; whoever does any work on that day must be cut off from his people. 15 For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death. 16 The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. 17 It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he abstained from work and rested.' "

It's obvious the sabbath command is given as a sign between God and the Children of Israel. This sign has not been extended to us.

 

[Sophia7]

You see, it really doesn't matter what individual people believe or don't believe. If you do your research you will find that God's word is true. The prophecies of God are sure and steadfast and lead us in the direction of what we should believe.

Well, then, it doesn't matter if people go to church on Sunday, does it? Sunday is not the Sabbath. Observance of the Sabbath is a different issue.

God tells us to remember to keep the seventh day holy. He tell us how the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God and how the seventh day is set aside for sacred assembly.

Where does the Bible tell us to remember to keep the seventh day holy? According to the verses that Ricker quoted, God told the Israelites that, not us. And where does the Bible say that the seventh day is to be set aside for sacred assembly? The commandment in Exodus 20 doesn't say that. The seventh-day Sabbath is called a "holy convocation" in Leviticus 23, but so are the other "appointed times." If the Sabbath is binding on Christians, then so are the other OT holy days.

If you are not obeying God in this matter it really doesn't matter what else you do or believe or don't believe. I can tell you there is a spiritual force in the world that is working to distort the truth of the seventh day. Persecution has come as a result of keeping the seventh day holy. Force has been used to enforce the first day. This is not of God and anyone who follows, agrees or denies this is following after the beast.

Look here and you will get a small glimps of the big picture.

http://looking4jesus.com/End-Time-Persecution.html

Is being persecuted a litmus test for truth? Muslims have been persecuted in many parts of the world, and their weekly holy day is Friday. Does that mean that we should "keep" Friday and accept Muhammad as a prophet? People of other religious traditions suffer and die for their strongly held beliefs, not only Christians and not only Sabbatarians. That doesn't prove anything about the correctness of their beliefs, only about their devotion to them.

 

[Aibrean]

Hebrews 8:7-13 (New International Version)


7For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. 8But God found fault with the people and said:
"The time is coming, declares the Lord,
when I will make a new covenant
with the house of Israel
and with the house of Judah.
9It will not be like the covenant
I made with their forefathers
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they did not remain faithful to my covenant,
and I turned away from them, declares the Lord.
10This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel
after that time, declares the Lord.
I will put my laws in their minds
and write them on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
11No longer will a man teach his neighbor,
or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,'
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.
12For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more."
13By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.

hmm

 

[Edial]

Closed at OP request.