Matthew 7:13-14 does not refute the eventual salvation of all

ClementofA

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Prove it! If a scholar is quoting anything it is incumbent on that scholar to properly cite his/her sources e.g. "Augustine as quoted in Johnson."

What would constitute proof? It seems common sense has already been insufficient.
 
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LoveofTruth

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This thread is only for discussing Mt.7:13-14 as an alleged "proof text" refuting universalism. No other Scripture passages or arguments allegedly opposing universalism will be considered relevant to this topic or answered herein. Not by me, anyway. Please stay on topic or refrain from posting. Thank you.



I'll stick with the inspired Word of God through the apostle Paul, rather than your erroneous opinion of Jesus' words:

1. Jesus says "FEW" were finding it
2. Paul says "MANY" will be saved (Rom.5:18-19)

Actually both are right.

Jesus was referring to the situation at His time in the first century, not final destiny.

Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for all mankind for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for all mankind for life's justifying."

Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, the many were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, the many shall be constituted just."

“In Romans 5, the justification is co-extensive with the condemnation. Since all share in one, all share in the other. If only a certain portion of the human race had partaken of the sin of Adam, only a certain portion would partake of the justification of Christ. But St. Paul affirms all to have been involved in one, and all to be included in the other.”

Bible versions don't say "few will EVER find it". This Greek Interliner says "finding":

Matthew 7:14 Interlinear: how strait is the gate, and compressed the way that is leading to the life, and few are those finding it!

Young's Literal Translation
how strait is the gate, and compressed the way that is leading to the life, and few are those finding it!


Matthew 7:14 is in the present tense, few "finding" it, speaking of that particular time, not of final destiny. Earlier in Matthew final destiny was already revealed re salvation:

Mt.1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Mt.2:6b ...my people Israel.


"Pay attention to the Greek verb tenses.
“Enter (eiselthate | εἰσέλθατε | aor act imperative 2 pl) through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and easy the way that leads to destruction, and many are those who enter
(eiserchomenoi | εἰσερχόμενοι | pres mid ptcp nom pl masc) through it. Matt 7:13"

"How narrow is the gate and difficult the way that leads to life, and few are those who find (heuriskontes | εὑρίσκοντες | pres act ptcp nom pl masc) it! Matt 7:14"

"In v.13 the word for 'enter' is the Greek word 'eiserchomenoi' which as noted is a present tense participle more accurately translated as 'entering.' Thus all this verse is saying is that there are many who are presently entering the wide gate. This verse does not refer at all to sometime in the future where people may or may not be resurrected out of the lake of fire. If it did, this verse would employ the future tense of the verb - but it doesn't. We can only say what this verse states - simply that when Jesus spoke these words, many are entering the broad gate/road."

"Same thing with v.14. The word for 'find' is 'heuriskontes' which is a present tense participle. Thus few people are currently 'finding' the narrow gate. No reference at all to the future."

Hell is Payback


*********************************************


https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf
sorry your argument is very weak
 
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This thread is only for discussing Mt.7:13-14 as an alleged "proof text" refuting universalism. No other Scripture passages or arguments allegedly opposing universalism will be considered relevant to this topic or answered herein. Not by me, anyway. Please stay on topic or refrain from posting. Thank you.



I'll stick with the inspired Word of God through the apostle Paul, rather than your erroneous opinion of Jesus' words:

1. Jesus says "FEW" were finding it
2. Paul says "MANY" will be saved (Rom.5:18-19)

Actually both are right.

Jesus was referring to the situation at His time in the first century, not final destiny.

Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for all mankind for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for all mankind for life's justifying."

Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, the many were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, the many shall be constituted just."

“In Romans 5, the justification is co-extensive with the condemnation. Since all share in one, all share in the other. If only a certain portion of the human race had partaken of the sin of Adam, only a certain portion would partake of the justification of Christ. But St. Paul affirms all to have been involved in one, and all to be included in the other.”

Bible versions don't say "few will EVER find it". This Greek Interliner says "finding":

Matthew 7:14 Interlinear: how strait is the gate, and compressed the way that is leading to the life, and few are those finding it!

Young's Literal Translation
how strait is the gate, and compressed the way that is leading to the life, and few are those finding it!


Matthew 7:14 is in the present tense, few "finding" it, speaking of that particular time, not of final destiny. Earlier in Matthew final destiny was already revealed re salvation:

Mt.1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Mt.2:6b ...my people Israel.


"Pay attention to the Greek verb tenses.
“Enter (eiselthate | εἰσέλθατε | aor act imperative 2 pl) through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and easy the way that leads to destruction, and many are those who enter
(eiserchomenoi | εἰσερχόμενοι | pres mid ptcp nom pl masc) through it. Matt 7:13"

"How narrow is the gate and difficult the way that leads to life, and few are those who find (heuriskontes | εὑρίσκοντες | pres act ptcp nom pl masc) it! Matt 7:14"

"In v.13 the word for 'enter' is the Greek word 'eiserchomenoi' which as noted is a present tense participle more accurately translated as 'entering.' Thus all this verse is saying is that there are many who are presently entering the wide gate. This verse does not refer at all to sometime in the future where people may or may not be resurrected out of the lake of fire. If it did, this verse would employ the future tense of the verb - but it doesn't. We can only say what this verse states - simply that when Jesus spoke these words, many are entering the broad gate/road."

"Same thing with v.14. The word for 'find' is 'heuriskontes' which is a present tense participle. Thus few people are currently 'finding' the narrow gate. No reference at all to the future."

Hell is Payback


*********************************************


https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf

I would say that there are stronger texts than Matthew 7:13-14 like Luke 13:23-28. Nevertheless Destruction clearly represents the lake of fire as it is set in contrast to life. There are two destinations that one could choose to go to either Hell or Heaven.

If no one could actually go to destruction like the passage states then what is the point of even mentioning it? If all will eventually find life then why didn't Jesus say that? Jesus is teaching that only one path leads to life not both. You can only enter one path to enter into life and few find it. It doesn't matter if few were finding it then. Look around, see how many people openly mock and reject God and die in that state? They were on the path of destruction and have ultiamtely made it there because God will judge everyman according to their deeds done in this life alone (Romans 2:6-10 ; 2 Cor. 5:10 ; Matt. 25:31-46). If you could find life by going through both paths then Matthew 7:13-14 is pointless because it doesn't matter what you do you will eventually be in heaven. But Jesus doesn't teach that he teaches that only ONE path leads to life and that is by having faith in him. Universalists want both paths to lead to life but they don't.

Both paths lead to an end point. Either heaven (life) or Hell (destruction). This path that you are on is fixed at physical death (Luke 16:26). Just as eternal life is eternal, destruction is eternal too.

Paul states in Philippians 3:18-20 : "For many, of whom I have often told you and now tell you even with tears, walk as enemies of the cross of Christ. Their END is destruction, their god is their belly, and they glory in their shame, with minds set on earthly things. But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ"

Notice again we see two groups and only one will be saved the other who oppose Christ are enemies of his and their end, that is their final state is destruction. If everyone's end is salvation like Universalists say then Paul is lying because their end wouldn't be destruction. Notice how Paul then says but "OUR" citizenship is in heaven. The enemies of Christ are eternally doomed if they die in that state.

Luke 13:23-28 is Luke's account of this and he makes it very clear that everyone will not enter heaven.

"And someone said to him, “Lord, will those who are saved be few?” And he said to them, “Strive to enter through the narrow door. For many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able." - ESV

"and a certain one said to him, 'Sir, are those saved few?' and he said unto them,'Be striving to go in through the straight gate, because many, I say to you, will seek to go in, and shall not be able;" - Young's Literal Translation

Here we see that many will seek to enter and will not be able to. Not that they will eventually be able to. But they will not be able to and the context is salvation. Keep reading from verse 24 onwards and we see Jesus speak about judgment day and people pleading with God or the master to let them into the house (salvation) but are denied because they were evildoers and are told to depart from God and into the lake of fire where they will weep and gnash their teeth and will be excluded from heaven. This just harkens back to Jesus statement in verse 24 which is --- " because many, I say to you, will seek to go in, and shall not be able". That is eternal exclusion since they are not able to get into salvation.
 
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