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Featured Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized- Poll Thread

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by LittleLambofJesus, Aug 5, 2018.

  1. Yes

    76.2%
  2. No

    9.5%
  3. I don't know

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Other [please explain]

    14.3%
  5. Matthew 24 all fulfilled

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. Matthew 24 partially fulfilled

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  7. None of Matthew 24 is fulfilled

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
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  1. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

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    /nvm
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2018
  2. Choose Wisely

    Choose Wisely Forgiven Supporter

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    I notice you did not compare what really needs to be compared. Luke says before these things (wars, nations rising against nations, famines etc). Matt says Then which means after these things.
    When discussing what will happen in Jerusalem Luke talks 70 AD and Matthew talks a future event that has not occurred yet.
    Luke 21
    9 But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by.
    10 Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:
    11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.
    12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.

    Matt 24
    6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
    7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
    8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
    9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

    Here we see in Luke the destruction of Jerusalem that occurred BEFORE the last days events.............70AD

    Luke 21
    20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

    Here we see in Matthew the abomination of desolation that will be set up in the end times 1290 days after the daily sacrifice is taken away in the midpoint of the week.
    Matt 24
    15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

    Daniel 12
    1 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

    Conclusion - Both are comparable endtime prophecies.......except ...... When talking about what happens in Jerusalem in these chapters Luke talks 70AD and Matthew talks a future event.
     
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  3. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

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    Matthew 24:16
    then those in the Judea let them be fleeing! into the mountains


    Mark 13:14
    Whenever yet ye may be seeing see the abomination of the desolation<2050>, the one being declared by Daniel the prophet, standing where it is not binding, (whoever is reading let him be understanding!)
    Then those in the Judea, let them be fleeing into the mountains


    Luke 21:21
    then those in the Judea, let them be fleeing into the mountains;
    and those in midst of Her, let them be coming out to country;
    and those in the countries placed, let them not come be entering into Her
    22 That days of vengeance these are, of the to be fulfilled<4130> all the having been written 23 “But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great Distress in the land and Wrath upon this people.


     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2019
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  4. Dave Watchman

    Dave Watchman Well-Known Member

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    I think you're doing a pretty good job here. I might fine tune it a bit, but you're just about there. This is a tough thing to explain, and i know that not many can see it. I could write an all day note on this thing explaining the five different types of Bible prophecy. Each of the different types have a different writing style or architecture.

    1. Local Prophecy.
    2. Messianic Prophecy.
    3. Day of the Lord Prophecy.
    4. Judaic Prophecy.
    5. Apocalyptic Prophecy.

    Luke 21 is split into thirds like a Day of the Lord prophecy, like Isiah 13. In a Day of the Lord prophecy the prophet can begin in an ancient Day of the Lord event to do with the Babylonians, and then seems to switch to a different vision where he peers down through the millennia to the end of time at the final and ultimate Day of the Lord that includes all the inhabitants of the whole earth.

    In Luke 21 Jesus begins with our time at the end of the age, just like Matthew 24, but He stops at verse 12: "But before all this. Then He shifts back to the first century and tells what will happen to the first century disciples: "they will lay their hands on YOU, and persecute YOU, delivering YOU up to the synagogues and prisons, and YOU will be brought before kings.

    Then after explaining the destruction of Jerusalem, and at verse 25, He shifts back to our end time right about now in 2015: “And there will be signs in sun and moon and stars, and on the earth distress of nations in perplexity because of the roaring of the sea and the waves,

    I believe verse 25 began in 2015 with the tetrads, continued into 2017 with the Revelation 12 sign and will conclude in early 2019 with the "darkened" sun. We might be right on the verge of the "distress of nations in perplexity".

    Here's for hoping that i'm an erroneous theologian working with some wore out neurotransmitters.

    At you're service,
    DaDave.
     
  5. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

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    Matthew 24
    17 The one on the house top no let him be coming down! to take away the things out of his house;
    18 and the one in the field no let him turn back! to pick up his garment<2240>.

    Mark 13
    15 The one yet upon the house top no let him be coming down! into the house
    neither let him enter! to pick up anything out of his house;
    16 and he who is in the field being, let him not turn back! to the things behind, to take up his garment.


    Luke 17:31
    In that the day, whoany shall be on the house top, and his vessels in his house, no let be coming down! to pick them up.
    And the one in the field likewise, no let him turn back into the behind
    ==========================
    ==================================
    A few OT scriptures concerning the 70ad Olivet Discourse verses quoted above.......

    Jer 38:2
    “Thus says the LORD: ‘He who remains in this city shall die by the sword, by famine, and by pestilence; but he who goes over to the Chaldeans shall live; his life shall be as a prize to him, and he shall live.'[fn]

    Isa 22:1
    Here is a message about the Valley of Vision:
    What is the reason that all of you go up to the rooftops?

    Eze 33:27
    “Say thus to them, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD: “As I live,
    surely those who are in the ruins shall fall by the sword,
    and the one who is in the open field I will give to the beasts to be devoured,

    and those who are in the strongholds and caves shall die of the pestilence.

    The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

    John of Gischala, who headed one of the factions, burnt storehouses full of provisions. Thus they cut the very sinews of their own strength.

    At this critical and alarming conjuncture, intelligence arrived that the Roman army was approaching the city. The Jews were petrified with astonishment and fear ; there was no time for counsel, no hope of pacification, no means of flight:-- all was wild disorder and perplexity :- nothing was to be heard but "the confused noise of the warrior, " -- nothing to be seen but garments rolled in blood," -- nothing to be expected from the Romans but signal and exemplary vengeance. A ceaseless cry of combatants was heard day and night, and yet the lamentations of mourners were still more dreadful.
    The consternation and terror which now prevailed induced many inhabitants to desire that a foreign foe might come, and effect their deliverance. Such was the horrible condition of the place when Titus and his army presented themselves, and encamped before Jerusalem ; but, alas ! not to deliver it from its miseries but to fulfill the prediction, and vindicate the benevolent warning of our Lord : "When ye see (he had said to his disciples) the abomination of desolation, spoken or by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place, [11] and Jerusalem surrounded by armies (or camps,) then let those who are in the midst of Jerusalem depart, and let not those who are in the country enter into her," for " then know that the desolation thereof is nigh." Matt. xxiv. 15, 21 ; Luke xxi. 20, 1-11.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2019
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  6. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

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    Thank you for posting your view.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2019
  7. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

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    /////////
     
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  8. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

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    D P
     
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  9. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

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    ////////
     
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  10. Choose Wisely

    Choose Wisely Forgiven Supporter

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    You are so busy matching up what agrees in the Greek you can't see forest for the trees.

    Matt 24
    15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

    Luke is talking about the desolation that occurs in Jerusalem 70AD. There was no temple for anything to be set up as it was destroyed. Whereas Matthew is talking about the abomination of desolation that is set up in the Temple. The Temple is the future Temple that has not yet been built.

    Here........this might help.
    Rev 11
    1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

    2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2018
  11. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

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    Matthew 24:19
    Woe yet to those pregnant,

    and to those giving suck in those the days

    Mark 13:17
    Woe yet to those pregnant,

    and to those giving suck in those the days

    Luke 21:23
    Woe yet to those pregnant,
    and to those giving suck in those the days

    for there shall be great distress on the land and wrath on this people;
     
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  12. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

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    Mark leaves out "sabbath"
    Luke doesn't mention winter in his Gospel.

    Matthew 24:20
    and pray ye that your flight may not be in winter nor on a sabbath

    Mark 13:18
    and pray ye that your flight may not be in winter
     
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  13. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

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    Matthew has "great tribulation and beginning of world"
    Mark has "tribulation and creation of world"
    Luke never mentions tribulation or creation, however he does use the exact word form of #2889 for "world" as Matt 24 and 3 verses in Revelation.

    Matthew 24:21
    for then shall be great tribulation, such as not has become from beginning of world<2889> till of the now,

    neither not no may be becoming.

    Mark 13:19
    for shall be the days, those, tribulation such as not has become such from beginning of creation<2397> which God creates till of the now, and not no may be becoming


    Luke 21
    22 That days of vengeance these are, of the to be fulfilled all the having been written
    23 “But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!
    For there will be great Distress in the land and Wrath upon this people.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2019
  14. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

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    No reference to Luke in these verses.............

    Matthew 24:22
    And if those days not shortened<2856>, not ever was saved all flesh.

    yet because of the chosen, shall those days be being shortened.

    Mark 13:20
    and if Lord not shorten the days, not ever was saved all flesh,

    but because of the chosen, whom He chooses, He shortens the days.
    ==============
    Matthew 24:23
    Then if any one may say to you, Lo, here [is] the Christ! or here! ye may not believe;
    Mark 13:21
    ‘And then, if any may say to you, Lo, here [is] the Christ, or, Lo, there, ye may not believe;
    Luke 17:23
    People will tell you, 'Look, there He is,' or 'Here He is.' Do not go out or chase after them.
    =======================
    Matthew 24:23 Commentaries: Biblhub

    Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers

    (23) Lo, here is Christ, or there.--Better, Lo, here is the Christ. The narrative of Josephus, while speaking of many "deceivers" claiming divine authority (Wars, ii. 13, ? 4), is silent as to any pretenders to the character of the Messiah. It is scarcely conceivable, however, that this should not have been one of the results of the fevered dreams of the people, and the reticence of the historian was probably a suppressio veri connected with his own recognition of Vespasian as a quasi Christ (Wars, vi. 5, ? 4).
    =============================
    EXEGETICAL (ORIGINAL LANGUAGES)

    Meyer's NT Commentary
    Matthew 24:23 ff. Τότε] then, when the desolation of the temple and the great θλίψις shall have arrived, false Messiahs, and such as falsely represent themselves to be prophets, will again come forward and urge their claims with greater energy than ever, nay, in the most seductive ways possible. Those here referred to are different from the pretenders of Matthew 24:4 f. The excitement and longing that will be awakened in the midst of such terrible distress will be taken advantage of by impostors with pretensions to miracle-working, and then how dangerous they will prove! By such early expositors as Chrysostom and those who come after him, Matthew 24:23 was supposed to mark the transition to the subject of the advent, so that τότε would pass over the whole period between the destruction of Jerusalem and the second advent; while, according to Ebrard (comp. Schott), the meaning intended by Jesus in Matthew 24:23-24 is, that after the destruction of the capital, the condition of the church and of the world, described in Matthew 24:4-14, “in posterum quoque mansurum esse.”
    ==============================

    The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
    Proof that Matthew 24 was fully fulfilled in 70 AD!

    "Tell us, when shall these things be ? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled ?" Such were the questions of the disciples, in answer to which our LORD condescended to give them a particular account of the several important events that would precede, as well as of the prognostics which would announce, the approaching desolations ; including suitable directions for the regulation of their conduct under the various trials to which they were to be exposed. He commences with a caution : "Take heed," says be, "that no man deceive you ; for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ, and shall deceive many."

    If it be objected that none of these impostors, except Dositheus, assumed the name of Messiah, we reply, that the groveling expectations of the Jews was directed to a Messiah who should merely deliver them from the Roman yoke, and "restore the kingdom to Jerusalem ;" and such were the pretensions of these deceivers. This expectation, indeed, is the only true solution of these strange and reputed insurrections ; which will naturally remind the reader of the following prophetic expressions of our LORD : "I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not ; if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive." " If they shall say unto you, 'Behold he is in the desert !" go not forth. They will shew [5] (or pretend to shew) great signs and wonders,"' &c. Our Saviour thus proceeded : "And ye shall hear of wars, and rumors of wars ; see that ye be not troubled : for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet, for nation shall rise up against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences : all these are the beginnings of sorrows. " -- Matt. xxiv. 7,8.
    ==============================================
    Luke 21:31
    Thus also ye whenever ye may be seeing these-things becoming ye are knowing that nigh/egguV <1451> is the Kingdom of the God.

    James 5:8
    be ye patient!, also stand-fast the hearts of ye, that the Parousia <3952> of the Lord has-neared/hggiken <1448> (5758);
    ===========================
    Revelation 1:3
    Blessed/happy the one reading and the ones hearing the words of the Prophecy and keepings in it having been written/gegrammena <1125> (5772),
    For the Time is nigh<1451>.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2019
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  15. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

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    Matthew 24:24
    “For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
    Mark 13:22
    “For false christs and false prophets will rise and show signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
    Luke 21:8

    And He said: “Take heed that you not be deceived. For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am He,’ and, ‘The time has drawn near.’ Therefore do not go after them.
    =====================
    Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon


    4105. planao from 4106;
    to (properly, cause to) roam (from safety, truth, or virtue):--go astray, deceive, err, seduce, wander, be out of the way.
    STRONGS NT 4105: πλανάω
    πλανάω, πλανῶ; future πλανήσω; 1 aorist ἐπλάνησα; passive, present πλανωμαι; perfect πεπλάνημαι; 1 aorist ἐπλανήθην; (πλάνη); from Aeschylus and Herodotus down; the Sept. for הִתְעָה; to cause to stray, to lead astray, lead aside from the rigid way;
    a. properly; in passive, the Sept. chiefly for תָּעָה, to go astray, wander, roam about (first so in Homer, Iliad 23, 321): Matthew 18:12; 1 Peter 2:25 (from Isaiah 53:6, cf. Exodus 23:4; Psalm 118:176 (Ps. 119:176); Hebrews 11:38.
    b. metaphorically, to lead away from the truth, to lead into error, to deceive: τινα, Matthew 24:4, 5, 11, 24; Mark 13:5, 6; John 7:12; 1 John 2:26; 1 John 3:7; 2 Timothy 3:13a; Revelation 2:20 G L T Tr WH; Revelation 12:9; 13:14; 19:20; 20:3,8,10; ἑαυτόν, 1 John 1:8; passive, to be led into error (R. V. be led astray): Luke 21:8; John 7:47; Revelation 2:20 Rec.; to err, Matthew 22:29; Mark 12:24, 27; μή πλανᾶσθε, 1 Corinthians 11:9; 1 Corinthians 15:33; Galatians 6:7; James 1:16; especially through ignorance to be led aside from the path of virtue, to go astray, sin: Titus 3:3; Hebrews 5:2; τῇ καρδία, Hebrews 3:10; ἀπό τῆς ἀληθείας, James 5:19; to wander or fall away from the true faith, of heretics, 2 Timothy 3:13b; 2 Peter 2:15;
    to be led away into error and sin, Revelation 18:23. (Compare: ἀποπλανάω.)

    G4105 πλανάω (planaō), occurs 51 times in 37 verses
    ====================================
    ==========================
    Used in 8 verses of Revelation:

    Rev 2:20
    “Nevertheless I have a few things against you, because you allow that woman/wife Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, to teach and deceive My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols.
    Rev 12:9
    So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
    Rev 13:14
    And he deceives those who dwell on the earth by those signs which he was granted to do in the sight of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who was wounded by the sword and lived.

    The Great City/Harlot/Queen Revelation chapts 17-19
    Jerusalem 70AD

    Rev 18:23

    “The light of a lamp shall not shine in you anymore, and the voice of bridegroom and bride shall not be heard in you anymore. For your merchants were the great men of the earth, for by your sorcery all the nations were deceived.
    ================
    Rev 19:20
    Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone.
    Rev 20:3
    and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.
    [​IMG] Rev 20:8
    and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea.
    [​IMG] Rev 20:10
    The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where[fn] the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2019
  16. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

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    Matthew 24:26
    If ever then they may be saying to ye 'behold! in the desert he is being'.
    no ye may be coming out! 'behold! in the storerooms'<5009>!, no ye should be believing
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2019
  17. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

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    Lightning not used in Mark

    Matthew 24:27
    For even as the lightning coming forth out of east and is appearing till of the west,
    thus shall be being the parousia of the Son of the Man.

    Luke 17:24
    For even as the lightning flashing out of under the heaven into the under heaven is shining,
    thus also shall be being the Son of the Man
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2019
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  18. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

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    "WHERE THE BODY is, there the EAGLES be gathered" Matt 24 Luke 17-- and Revelation


    This event is not shown in Mark
    2 different greek words used for dead body/corpse.

    4430.
    a ruin, i.e. (specially), lifeless body (corpse, carrion):--dead body, carcase, corpse.
    #4430 used in Revelation 11:8-9

    Matthew 24:28
    Wheresoever if ever may be the corpse<4430>

    there shall be being gathered<4863> the eagles/vultures!<105>

    4983. soma from 4982;
    the body (as a sound whole), used in a very wide application, literally or figuratively:--bodily, body, slave.

    Luke 17:37
    And answering, they are saying to Him "where Lord?
    "He yet said to them "Where the body<4983> there, also the eagles/vultures<105> shall be being assembled<1996>
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2019
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  19. joshua 1 9

    joshua 1 9 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Mark was the son of Mary, she owned the upper room where the disciples stayed when they were in Jerusalem. The upper room is also where Peter was perching on the day of Pentecostal when the Holy Spirit was poured out on the people in attendance that day. Mark was young. Even in Paul's day he complained about Mark being immature. Althought Luke was able to work thing out between them.

    We know for sure that Matthew was there that day when Jesus was giving this teaching. It could be Mark was there. He may have tailed along with the disciples. He was very excited by all of the activity. We know for sure that Luke was not there. Chances are Luke heard the teaching from Mark. Luke mostly interviewed Mark, Mary and Paul. I do not think he talked to the other disciples all that much. Matthew and maybe Mark were an eye witness, Luke was not an eye witness. He did a diligent study to learn about the events that took place.

    The view that day would have been amazing. The tourist still go there today because they can see old Jerusalem, New Jerusalem and the temple mount. This is where Jesus was taken up and this is going to be where Jesus will return. We are told there will be an earthquake when He returns.

    Of course they would have been looking at the temple and Jesus would be telling them that temple would be destroyed. They were wanting to know when the temple would be destroyed. The person that was set free in the place of Jesus was a leader in the rebellion that ended up in the destruction of the temple. The people did not understand the spiritual things of God and they were wanting to take control of Jerusalem in and though the sword and the flesh.

    Jesus is explaining shadow and type. What happens with Israel will happen with the gentiles at the end of the age of the gentiles, the Holy Spirit dispensation, the Church age, age of Grace and many other things they call the age we are in. Some people say the Kingdom age is already beginning as this age come to an end.
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    Last edited: Aug 12, 2018
  20. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

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    Matthew 24:29
    Yet immediately after the tribulation of those days,

    the sun shall be being darkened<4654>,
    and the moon not shall be giving the beam<5338> of her
    and the stars shall be falling from the heaven,
    and the powers<1411> of the heavens shall be being shaken<4531>

    Mark 13:
    24 But in those the days, after that tribulation,
    that the sun shall be being darkened,

    and the moon not shall be give her beam,
    25 and the stars shall be falling out of the heaven,
    and the powers in the heavens shall be be being shaken

    Luke 21:
    25 And shall be signs in sun, and moon, and stars,

    And on the land together anguish/distress<4928> of nations, state of quandary<640>, roaring<2279> of sea and of shaking/tempest<4535>,
    26 men fainting of heart from fear<5401> and apprehensiveness<4329> of the coming to the those dwelling upon the land <3625>.
    For the powers of the heavens shall be being shaken.

    ===========================
    Isaiah 5:30


    In that day they will roar against them Like the roaring of the sea.
    And if one looks to the land, Behold, darkness and sorrow; And the light is darkened by the clouds.


     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2019
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