Matthew 24:40-41 has me questioning my beliefs

[Kristen Johnson]

I think you're likely right that the rapture comes at the end when it all ends. But, in my teen years or angst I used to just fret about it. Now I choose to not think about it because God loves me, forgives me, and takes care of me. That's what I choose to focus on.

 

[Luke17:37]

I think you're likely right that the rapture comes at the end when it all ends. But, in my teen years or angst I used to just fret about it. Now I choose to not think about it because God loves me, forgives me, and takes care of me. That's what I choose to focus on.

Jesus commands us not to be afraid of the wars and rumors of wars (etc.), or of those who would kill the body but can't kill the soul.

I don't watch the ISIS beheading videos because I don't want to have those images and their cries in my mind. I don't like the idea of being tortured but Jesus didn't crave the cross either, and nothing Christians experience holds a candle to what Jesus Himself endured out of love for us. May the Lord give me strength to overcome whatever suffering I am appointed to for the sake of Christ. I know that I'm not supposed to be focused on saving my life.

So, God doesn't want you to be afraid, but He doesn't want you be ignorant, either. Ignorance and deception are great foundations for more deception. And many will turn away from the faith in the Tribulation.

May you endure in your faith and be an overcomer no matter what. God bless you.

 

[mmksparbud]

Php 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

 

[dqhall]

I'm Lutheran and I've always been of the persuasion that the rapture occurs on the last day when Christ returns and raises the dead.
Matthew 24:40-41 has me questioning this. It doesn't seem to jive with my beliefs. For instance it says that "one will be left" which gives me the idea that life will continue on earth after this "taking" takes place.
Thoughts?

This passage in Matthew 24 may indicate great tribulations and persecutions were to come. Persecution where one person is taken and another is left is similar to the persecution done by ISIS in Iraq. They went into a university and found out who the Christians were. The took the Christians away and executed them. The Muslims were given safe passage.

Nowhere do the Gospels describe a rapture before the resurrection. Jesus was not ruptured. He had to pick up his cross and suffer death to gain resurrection three days later. Peter and Paul were executed by the Romans as well (Eusebius, Ecclesiastical History).

In Matthew 10, Jesus advised his disciples:

Matt 10:17 (WEB) But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to councils, and in their synagogues they will scourge you. 18 Yes, and you will be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony to them and to the nations. 19 But when they deliver you up, don’t be anxious how or what you will say, for it will be given you in that hour what you will say. 20 For it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you. 21 “Brother will deliver up brother to death, and the father his child. Children will rise up against parents, and cause them to be put to death. 22 You will be hated by all men for my name’s sake, but he who endures to the end will be saved. 23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee into the next, for most certainly I tell you, you will not have gone through the cities of Israel, until the Son of Man has come.

 

[dcalling]

Agree with dqhall on this. Also I believe we should focus on the teachings of Bible about how to do our lives (no steal, love God and others etc), and not the prophecies. The Prophecies are only a indication of things to come, and it come again and again that we misinterpret them, even John the baptist think Jesus as a warrior king and questioned if he is the messiah (with so much clear signs but his expectations are different that that of God).

 

[Widlast]

After thinking on this for a few minutes it comes to me "how shallow is your faith that one verse you don't understand causes you so much trouble". I mean really? With so much in the world to be upset about, it's this that gets your stomach in a knot?
And BTW, the "rapture" is heresy, pure nonsense. It was pushed by those who like to twist scripture and are terrified of the idea that they might have to endure suffering. If you take a look at the lives of the saints and apostles you will notice that God the Father was always more than willing to let His people suffer (for good reason of course). He let His own son be martyred on the cross.

 

[pshun2404]

First not all people or nations (that were enemies of God and His people) will be destroyed...remember that afte, in the Kingdom of Christ, there will be people/nations which will not come up to Jerusalem to worship (some will be deprived of rain)...secondly life will continue (at least for the symbolic or literal 1,000 years)

 

[Archie the Preacher]

I'm Lutheran and I've always been of the persuasion that the rapture occurs on the last day when Christ returns and raises the dead.

Matthew 24:40-41 has me questioning this. It doesn't seem to jive with my beliefs. For instance it says that "one will be left" which gives me the idea that life will continue on earth after this "taking" takes place.

Greetings, John.
Perhaps it is good to 'question your beliefs'. One should always be examining what one believes; in this way one grows in Christ and gains confidence and knowledge, rather than just memorizing responses.

The end of time, end of days, end of the world and so on are very well studied and very well known. Just ask any of the supporters of any of the 753 different explanations of it all. I exaggerate a bit, but the reality is there are no fully satisfactory interpretations of the matter. You aren't any different, nor should you expect yourself to be.

It sounds to me - correct me if I'm wrong - you are (or have been) understanding that when Jesus returns, He will take all people on Earth to judgement. One of the fairly agreed upon understandings is that when Jesus returns, He will FIRST remove all His followers and leave the unsaved in place. This accounts for the passage you cite. Following this, the other events outlined in Revelation will transpire.

Does that help any? By the way, being a Lutheran has little to do with it. All manner of Christians don't 'get' something in the Bible. It doesn't mean they aren't saved, nor does it mean God doesn't like them.

 

[sdowney717]

I'm Lutheran and I've always been of the persuasion that the rapture occurs on the last day when Christ returns and raises the dead.

Matthew 24:40-41 has me questioning this. It doesn't seem to jive with my beliefs. For instance it says that "one will be left" which gives me the idea that life will continue on earth after this "taking" takes place.

Thoughts?

So where will thy be taken do you think?
They will be taken to a place of destruction, by angels casting them into hell.
Eagles (vultures) there are birds of prey, so they will be eaten.
Read about the 'great supper of God' in Revelation 19.

the ones left are actually the ones saved.

Matthew 24:28New King James Version (NKJV)
28 For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.

 

[sdowney717]

You must understand Jesus's Matthew 24 verse with consideration of Matthew 13 also
And they are gathered up, the tares, by the angels, so they are taken away to destruction while His people, the righteous remain to shine.

Matthew 13
40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. 41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

AND also Luke 17, the exact same idea, they are taken to a place of destruction.
Luke 17:36-37New King James Version (NKJV)
36 Two men will be in the field: the one will be taken and the other left.”

37 And they answered and said to Him, “Where, Lord?”

So He said to them, “Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together.”

 

[Luke17:37]

Greetings, John.
Perhaps it is good to 'question your beliefs'. One should always be examining what one believes; in this way one grows in Christ and gains confidence and knowledge, rather than just memorizing responses.

The end of time, end of days, end of the world and so on are very well studied and very well known. Just ask any of the supporters of any of the 753 different explanations of it all. I exaggerate a bit, but the reality is there are no fully satisfactory interpretations of the matter. You aren't any different, nor should you expect yourself to be.

It sounds to me - correct me if I'm wrong - you are (or have been) understanding that when Jesus returns, He will take all people on Earth to judgement. One of the fairly agreed upon understandings is that when Jesus returns, He will FIRST remove all His followers and leave the unsaved in place. This accounts for the passage you cite. Following this, the other events outlined in Revelation will transpire.

Does that help any? By the way, being a Lutheran has little to do with it. All manner of Christians don't 'get' something in the Bible. It doesn't mean they aren't saved, nor does it mean God doesn't like them.

Archie the Preacher,

You say: "One of the fairly agreed upon understandings is that when Jesus returns, He will FIRST remove all His followers and leave the unsaved in place." Pre-Tribulation Rapture is a false teaching. Nowhere in the Bible does it say He is going to remove His people first. In the parable of the wheat and tares (Matthew 13), Jesus says He the angels won't gather His wheat until after they first gather the wicked in bundles to be burned. It doesn't matter how many people teach Pre-Tribulation Rapture. It is false. Instead, 2 Timothy 4:3-4 is being fulfilled in our generation.

You said, "...when Jesus returns, He will FIRST remove all His followers and leave the unsaved in place. This accounts for the passage you cite." I encourage you to read Luke 17:26-37 and Matthew 24:37-41 side by side. When you do, you should see that the "taken" are not the Christians. Jesus is not describing the rapture of the Church at all.

I pray you take your own advice ("One should always be examining what one believes; in this way one grows in Christ and gains confidence and knowledge, rather than just memorizing responses.") and carefully examine the Scriptures like the Bereans to see if these things (Pre-Tribulation Rapture) are so.

This is so very important, since all the virgins await His coming with joy but half of them are foolish and are shut out of the eternal kingdom.

 

[sdowney717]

The rapture is a post trib rapture.
It is clearly at the coming of the Lord.
Christ comes back only a second time, not 3, 4 times.

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17New King James Version (NKJV)
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

This passage is universally thought of as the 'rapture event' and clearly this happens at the second coming of the Lord.
And fully agrees with Christ in Matthew 24 saying

The Coming of the Son of Man
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Do you all see the trumpet connection here?

There will be a double gathering, of those who are going to hell, and of those who will be with the Lord, and they will reign on the earth. So Christ gathers up His people at His returning to meet Him in the air, and then comes down to destroy the beast and the evil world system to rule and reign on this earth for that 1000 years.

"And thus we shall always be with the Lord."

 

[sdowney717]

In Jude, this is the second coming, He comes back bringing all the saints with Him.

14 Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, 15 to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.”

 

[sdowney717]

When you read about The day of the Lord in scripture this is that great day of Christ's returning to rule and to reign on the earth. There are many verses that talk about the DAY, here are some. All tribes of people on the earth will mourn when they see Christ's returning, but His people will not be mourning, they will be rejoicing.

Malachi 4New King James Version (NKJV)
The Great Day of God
4 “For behold, the day is coming,
Burning like an oven,
And all the proud, yes, all who do wickedly will be stubble.
And the day which is coming shall burn them up,”
Says the Lord of hosts,
“That will leave them neither root nor branch.
2 But to you who fear My name
The Sun of Righteousness shall arise
With healing in His wings;
And you shall go out
And grow fat like stall-fed calves.
3 You shall trample the wicked,
For they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet
On the day that I do this,”
Says the Lord of hosts.

4 “Remember the Law of Moses, My servant,
Which I commanded him in Horeb for all Israel,
With the statutes and judgments.
5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet
Before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord.
6 And he will turn
The hearts of the fathers to the children,
And the hearts of the children to their fathers,
Lest I come and strike the earth with a curse.”

 

[Archie the Preacher]

Pre-Tribulation Rapture is a false teaching.

I see you follow one of those other 752 alternatives. And of course, yours is the only acceptable version.

 

[marineimaging]

John, if I were you I would be looking at the anytime rapture view, which is that the rapture can happen anytime between now and when it does. The only requirement, is to be watching and hopeful, for Jesus to come and take us out of the world. It will take place at time unexpected. Jesus is coming and his reward is with him.

I have to agree with this. As a Baptist with leanings toward Apologetics I admit I am still learning and still reading toward understanding. However, the one thing I have absolute comfort in is that we are instructed to live as if 5 minutes from now is the rapture. All of our focus should be on proclaiming the Glory of Jesus Christ, the absolute promise of His eternal Word, and that our salvation was given not through our works, but by His Grace and Love and can never be taken away. So far, no person I have heard can change that one statement by Christ when asked "When" and He answered, "Only the Father knows." That is sufficient for me and should be sufficient for the world. I would ask of you, if you have lived according the the Word and have accepted Jesus as your Lord and Savior, what do you have to fear? What do you have to doubt? That God is a liar? A trickster with evil doings in His heart? God has promised to those who believe in His Son that you will have eternal life. There is nothing else that can take that promise away, even the day the rapture occurs. God is not a liar and not interested in mans tricks and ways. He created you, created the universe, put His hand on all we know, therefore will give you understanding as long as you seek it, have faith, have patience, and trust Him.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

I'm Lutheran and I've always been of the persuasion that the rapture occurs on the last day when Christ returns and raises the dead.

Matthew 24:40-41 has me questioning this. It doesn't seem to jive with my beliefs. For instance it says that "one will be left" which gives me the idea that life will continue on earth after this "taking" takes place.

Thoughts?

A more common understanding of the text is nothing to do with the second coming for those verses.
The text is predicting the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD.
Those who were taken were forced into military service, the ones left behind were too weak to fight or were children or women.

The Rapture interpretation is only about 150 years old, somewhere in the 1800's.

https://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/mill.cfm
http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/antichrist.htm

 

[Luke17:37]

I see you follow one of those other 752 alternatives. And of course, yours is the only acceptable version.

I see you're unwilling to challenge your beliefs against what Scripture actually says.

 

[Luke17:37]

A more common understanding of the text is nothing to do with the second coming for those verses.
The text is predicting the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD.
Those who were taken were forced into military service, the ones left behind were too weak to fight or were children or women.

The Rapture interpretation is only about 150 years old, somewhere in the 1800's.

https://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/mill.cfm
http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/antichrist.htm

Jesus was comparing Noah's flood to His coming. It's not about the destruction of the temple.

 

[Luke17:37]

I have to agree with this. As a Baptist with leanings toward Apologetics I admit I am still learning and still reading toward understanding. However, the one thing I have absolute comfort in is that we are instructed to live as if 5 minutes from now is the rapture. All of our focus should be on proclaiming the Glory of Jesus Christ, the absolute promise of His eternal Word, and that our salvation was given not through our works, but by His Grace and Love and can never be taken away. So far, no person I have heard can change that one statement by Christ when asked "When" and He answered, "Only the Father knows." That is sufficient for me and should be sufficient for the world. I would ask of you, if you have lived according the the Word and have accepted Jesus as your Lord and Savior, what do you have to fear? What do you have to doubt? That God is a liar? A trickster with evil doings in His heart? God has promised to those who believe in His Son that you will have eternal life. There is nothing else that can take that promise away, even the day the rapture occurs. God is not a liar and not interested in mans tricks and ways. He created you, created the universe, put His hand on all we know, therefore will give you understanding as long as you seek it, have faith, have patience, and trust Him.

Just because we don't know the exact day doesn't mean we won't know the season (1 Thessalonians 5:4-9, Hebrews 10:24-25) if we are watching the way Jesus told us to. The gathering of Christ isn't imminent until we have seen all these things happen (e.g., Matthew 24:4-28). The gathering is post-Tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31) at Jesus' appearing. It is after the resurrection (of the dead in Christ) (1 Thessalonians 4:14-17), the first resurrection which includes Tribulation martyrs (Revelation 20:4-6).

We should live like we're a few seconds away from meeting Jesus, not because a rapture is possible at any moment (it's not, yet), but because we aren't promised our next breath.