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Matthew 24:40-41 has me questioning my beliefs

Luke17:37

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I agree with everything you said except two things.

So, the saved dead are resurrected, and they, along with the saved living, are taken up with God for the 1000 years--- the wicked are all dead for the 1000 years---after that the wicked are resurrected for their judgement and the 2nd death.
Revelation 20:4-6 says the resurrected beheaded reign with Jesus a thousand years. He reigns on the earth (see Zechariah 14, Isaiah 2, etc.), so they would, too.

One will be left merely means that one will be saved, the other will not be. The righteous are all taken to be with God, the wicked are all left behind---dead.
Functionally this is right (the wicked die), but in the context of the return of Christ being like the flood, the taken are the wicked who die.
 
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mmksparbud

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Jesus will not step foot on this sin ridden world until after the wicked are judged at the 2nd death and the earth is cleansed--

2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

The New Jerusalem is coming down from God unto a newly remade earth -- Jesus will never be on this earth again until it has been cleansed of all sin, He will not reign on earth---there is no one here during that 1000 years, the saved are with Him in heaven (they all go up to met Him, He does not come down to be with them)--the wicked are all dead until judgment day. Zac and Isa are not talking about the 1000 year reign. Jesus is not going to reign over a dead polluted planet in a sin contaminated world and then bring down the New Jerusalem. We will be with Him in the New Jerusalem and come down with Him into a newly remade world and heavens.
 
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Douggg

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Jesus will not step foot on this sin ridden world until after the wicked are judged at the 2nd death and the earth is cleansed--
What?

Zechariah 14:
2
For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
 
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mmksparbud

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Not mentioned by Jesus or the disciples in the NT.

Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Sukkot is also known as the Festival of Booths and the Feast of Tabernacles.
Sukkot not only looked back into history, it also looked forward into the future when Cod's promise to Abraham will be fulfilled, when all peoples on earth will be blessed through you. (Genesis 12:3).
The services of the week were elaborate; in all there were seventy bullocks that were sacrificed. The seventh and last day of the feast is a very special day. It is called
Hoshana Rabba, "the great Hoshanah." !n the synagogue during the morning service after seven circuits are made around the altar with the lulav (palm branches, they are beaten on the floor of the synagogue floor or its furniture while the worshipers are chanting, the voice announcing the coming of the Messiah is heard.
Outline in Leviticus
  • They lived in booths made of boughs of trees and branches of palm trees for the seven days of the feast (Lev. 23:42).
  • They rested from all regular work on the first and eighth days.
  • The Priest offered sacrifices on the seven days, beginning with thirteen bullocks and other animals on the first day and diminishing by one bullock each day until, on the seventh, seven bullocks were offered.
  • On the eighth day there was a solemn assembly when one bullock, one ram, and seven lambs were offered (Num. 29:36). The sacrifices offered during this time amounted to 189 animals.
  • Men carried the cluster of branches to the synagogue to wave as they rejoiced before the Lord, as commanded by the Lord (Lev. 23:40).
  • The Priest would pour out the water over the altar to signify Israel’s gratitude for the rain that had produced the harvest, and would pray for rain in the next year. The priest would recite Isaiah 12:1-3.manded by the Lord (Lev. 23:40).This special libation was performed only during the seven days of the Feast of Tabernacles. This was done not only to remind God of the need for abundant rain during the winter season, but also to remind the people of the coming Messiah who had promised to pour out His Holy Spirit on the people.
  • http://heartofwisdom.com/biblicalholidays/2014/07/28/sukkot-tabernacles-in-bible-times/


This feast that is to be celebrated during this time consists of the above rituals. That includes the sacrifice of about 189 animals---and the feast also points to the coming Messiah---who is supposedly already there.
 
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Luke17:37

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Jesus will not step foot on this sin ridden world until after the wicked are judged at the 2nd death and the earth is cleansed--

2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

The New Jerusalem is coming down from God unto a newly remade earth -- Jesus will never be on this earth again until it has been cleansed of all sin, He will not reign on earth---there is no one here during that 1000 years, the saved are with Him in heaven (they all go up to met Him, He does not come down to be with them)--the wicked are all dead until judgment day. Zac and Isa are not talking about the 1000 year reign. Jesus is not going to reign over a dead polluted planet in a sin contaminated world and then bring down the New Jerusalem. We will be with Him in the New Jerusalem and come down with Him into a newly remade world and heavens.

Ah, so you don't believe in the kingdom described in Revelation 20, Isaiah 2, Isaiah 11, Isaiah 65, Ezekiel 47, Ezekiel 48, Psalms 2, Psalms 72, Zechariah 14... I'm sorry you don't believe this. Jesus is going to reign on the earth anyway before the wicked are thrown into the Lake of Fire and New Jerusalem comes down to a "new heavens and new earth". From Jerusalem He'll be healing the earth, establishing peace and justice, systematically dismantling the curse while Satan is bound up for a thousand years... and squashing the final rebellion after Satan is let out for a short time.
 
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mmksparbud

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Ah, so you don't believe in the kingdom described in Revelation 20, Isaiah 2, Isaiah 11, Isaiah 65, Ezekiel 47, Ezekiel 48, Psalms 2, Psalms 72, Zechariah 14... I'm sorry you don't believe this. Jesus is going to reign on the earth anyway before the wicked are thrown into the Lake of Fire and New Jerusalem comes down to a "new heavens and new earth". From Jerusalem He'll be healing the earth, establishing peace and justice, systematically dismantling the curse while Satan is bound up for a thousand years... and squashing the final rebellion after Satan is let out for a short time.

I believe in Rev 20---that is not describing a reign on earth. It just says the saved will reign with Christ a 1000 years, doesn't say on this earth. But I posted the verses that describes the 2nd coming of Jesus, and that involves the resurrection of the righteous dead, and taking the living righteous up into the air to all meet with Christ and reign with Him a 1000 years. We go up -- He doesn't come down. The wicked living are killed at His coming, and the wicked dead stay that way so there is no one to reign over on this earth. As this has also happened

2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

You see there is also the Jewish rest of the land, from where the 1000 years comes about
Exo_23:10 And six years thou shalt sow thy land, and shalt gather in the fruits thereof:
Lev_25:3 Six years thou shalt sow thy field, and six years thou shalt prune thy vineyard, and gather in the fruit thereof;
Exo 23:11 But the seventh year thou shalt let it rest and lie still; that the poor of thy people may eat: and what they leave the beasts of the field shall eat. In like manner thou shalt deal with thy vineyard, and with thy olive yard.

It is 6000 years---then the whole world will rest for 1000 years after it has been burned up. It is also the 6 days thou shall labor, but the 7th is a day of rest---6 days creation, then a day of rest. The world rests for that 1000 years while the saved are with Jesus in the New Jerusalem. Then it comes down on a remade earth.

 
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Luke17:37

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I believe in Rev 20---that is not describing a reign on earth. It just says the saved will reign with Christ a 1000 years, doesn't say on this earth. But I posted the verses that describes the 2nd coming of Jesus, and that involves the resurrection of the righteous dead, and taking the living righteous up into the air to all meet with Christ and reign with Him a 1000 years. We go up -- He doesn't come down. The wicked living are killed at His coming, and the wicked dead stay that way so there is no one to reign over on this earth. As this has also happened

2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

You see there is also the Jewish rest of the land, from where the 1000 years comes about
Exo_23:10 And six years thou shalt sow thy land, and shalt gather in the fruits thereof:
Lev_25:3 Six years thou shalt sow thy field, and six years thou shalt prune thy vineyard, and gather in the fruit thereof;
Exo 23:11 But the seventh year thou shalt let it rest and lie still; that the poor of thy people may eat: and what they leave the beasts of the field shall eat. In like manner thou shalt deal with thy vineyard, and with thy olive yard.

It is 6000 years---then the whole world will rest for 1000 years after it has been burned up. It is also the 6 days thou shall labor, but the 7th is a day of rest---6 days creation, then a day of rest. The world rests for that 1000 years while the saved are with Jesus in the New Jerusalem. Then it comes down on a remade earth.

Revelation 20:7-9
7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.

Zechariah 14:16-21
16 And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 17 And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, on them there will be no rain. 18 If the family of Egypt will not come up and enter in, they shall have no rain; they shall receive the plague with which the Lord strikes the nations who do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.
20 In that day “HOLINESS TO THE LORD” shall be engraved on the bells of the horses. The pots in the Lord’s house shall be like the bowls before the altar. 21 Yes, every pot in Jerusalem and Judah shall be holiness to the Lord of hosts. Everyone who sacrifices shall come and take them and cook in them. In that day there shall no longer be a Canaanite in the house of the Lord of hosts.

See, God expressly says there will be survivors, that not every survivor will always obey Him (hence the example of Egypt) but that He will reign over all the nations of the earth from Jerusalem.

Psalms 2:6, 8
6 “Yet I have set My King
on My holy hill of Zion.”
8 Ask of Me, and I will give You the nations for Your inheritance, and the ends of the earth for Your possession.

Verse 6 is so surely established that God proclaimed it in past tense. Compare this with what is said in Revelation 11:15: "The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!" This is talking about what happens at the seventh trumpet.

Isaiah 2:2-4
2 Now it shall come to pass in the latter days that the mountain of the Lord’s house
shall be established on the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow to it. 3 Many people shall come and say, “Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; He will teach us His ways, and we shall walk in His paths.” For out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem. 4 He shall judge between the nations,
and rebuke many people;
they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks;
nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore.


He will change things on the earth, bringing peace as He reigns. He won't kill everyone when He comes back. The nations will learn a new way of life--true peace--and they will go up to worship Him in Jerusalem.

Isaiah 11
There shall come forth a Rod from the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots. 2 The Spirit of the Lord shall rest upon Him,
the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, the Spirit of counsel and might, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord. 3 His delight is in the fear of the Lord, and He shall not judge by the sight of His eyes, nor decide by the hearing of His ears;
4 But with righteousness He shall judge the poor, and decide with equity for the meek of the earth; He shall strike the earth with the rod of His mouth, and with the breath of His lips He shall slay the wicked. 5 Righteousness shall be the belt of His loins, and faithfulness the belt of His waist. 6 “The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, the leopard shall lie down with the young goat, the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. 7 The cow and the bear shall graze; their young ones shall lie down together; and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. 8 The nursing child shall play by the cobra’s hole,
and the weaned child shall put his hand in the viper’s den. 9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain, for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea. 10 “And in that day there shall be a Root of Jesse, who shall stand as a banner to the people; for the Gentiles shall seek Him, and His resting place shall be glorious.” 11 It shall come to pass in that day that the Lord shall set His hand again the second time to recover the remnant of His people who are left, from Assyria and Egypt, from Pathros and Cush, from Elam and Shinar,
from Hamath and the islands of the sea. 12 He will set up a banner for the nations, and will assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.
13 Also the envy of Ephraim shall depart, and the adversaries of Judah shall be cut off; Ephraim shall not envy Judah, and Judah shall not harass Ephraim. 14 But they shall fly down upon the shoulder of the Philistines toward the west; together they shall plunder the people of the East; they shall lay their hand on Edom and Moab; and the people of Ammon shall obey them.
15 The Lord will utterly destroy the tongue of the Sea of Egypt; with His mighty wind He will shake His fist over the River, and strike it in the seven streams, and make men cross over dryshod. 16 There will be a highway for the remnant of His people who will be left from Assyria, as it was for Israel in the day that he came up from the land of Egypt.

This is on earth, involving the nations and geography we know, and yet the Lord will be changing things. The animals (and man) were originally vegetarians in Eden (Genesis 1:30), and fear of man did not affect the animals (see Genesis 9:2) until after the flood. He will be systematically dismantling the curse...

Isaiah 65:18-25
18 But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create; for behold, I create Jerusalem as a rejoicing, and her people a joy. 19 I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in My people; the voice of weeping shall no longer be heard in her, nor the voice of crying.
20 “No more shall an infant from there live but a few days, nor an old man who has not fulfilled his days; for the child shall die one hundred years old, but the sinner being one hundred years old shall be accursed.
21 They shall build houses and inhabit them; they shall plant vineyards and eat their fruit. 22 They shall not build and another inhabit; they shall not plant and another eat; for as the days of a tree, so shall be the days of My people, and My elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands. 23 They shall not labor in vain, nor bring forth children for trouble; for they shall be the descendants of the blessed of the Lord, and their offspring with them.
24 “It shall come to pass that before they call, I will answer; and while they are still speaking, I will hear. 25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, the lion shall eat straw like the ox, and dust shall be the serpent’s food. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain,” says the Lord.

There are a few interesting things to consider here. This is not heaven, because people are still giving birth and people can still die (maybe only the wicked). Lifespans will greatly increase, as they were in the days before the flood. In the resurrection, Jesus said there would be no marriage, so these are babies and children of the survivors of the nations, not the resurrected Church. Another interesting thing is that while the animals will be returned to their Edenic diets and dispositions, the serpent will still be on its belly--a living testimony to the people of the earth to remind them of the consequence of rebellion against the Creator.

Ezekiel 47:1-12
47 Then he brought me back to the door of the temple; and there was water, flowing from under the threshold of the temple toward the east, for the front of the temple faced east; the water was flowing from under the right side of the temple, south of the altar. 2 He brought me out by way of the north gate, and led me around on the outside to the outer gateway that faces east; and there was water, running out on the right side. 3 And when the man went out to the east with the line in his hand, he measured one thousand cubits, and he brought me through the waters; the water came up to my ankles. 4 Again he measured one thousand and brought me through the waters; the water came up to my knees. Again he measured one thousand and brought me through; the water came up to my waist. 5 Again he measured one thousand, and it was a river that I could not cross; for the water was too deep, water in which one must swim, a river that could not be crossed. 6 He said to me, “Son of man, have you seen this?” Then he brought me and returned me to the bank of the river. 7 When I returned, there, along the bank of the river, were very many trees on one side and the other. 8 Then he said to me: “This water flows toward the eastern region, goes down into the valley, and enters the sea. When it reaches the sea, its waters are healed. 9 And it shall be that every living thing that moves, wherever the rivers go, will live. There will be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters go there; for they will be healed, and everything will live wherever the river goes. 10 It shall be that fishermen will stand by it from En Gedi to En Eglaim; they will be places for spreading their nets. Their fish will be of the same kinds as the fish of the Great Sea, exceedingly many. 11 But its swamps and marshes will not be healed; they will be given over to salt. 12 Along the bank of the river, on this side and that, will grow all kinds of trees used for food; their leaves will not wither, and their fruit will not fail. They will bear fruit every month, because their water flows from the sanctuary. Their fruit will be for food, and their leaves for medicine.”

This river will flow east from under the temple into the Dead Sea. I have been to En Gedi; it is on the western shore of the Dead Sea. Currently the Dead Sea is very salty and it has no fish (they cannot survive in it). But God will heal the waters of the Dead Sea and make En Gedi a place of fishing. (This is En Gedi.)

image.jpeg


Ezekiel 47:13-Ezekiel 48 describe the borders for the land of Israel in this new kingdom. It's an Israel according to the borders God promised Abraham (Genesis 15:18), and completely different from the way the land was allocated in the time of Joshua.

I encourage you to just believe what God's Word says about the millennium. The New Heavens and New Earth with the 1380 mile cubed Jerusalem coming out of Heaven (Revelation 21) is totally different than any of these passages describe. This doesn't happen until after the final rebellion and the judgment and the the wicked being thrown into the Lake of Fire. These aren't the only places where Jesus' earthly reign is described, either. There are other passages, but these provide a good picture.
 
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Hallstone

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I'm Lutheran and I've always been of the persuasion that the rapture occurs on the last day when Christ returns and raises the dead.

Matthew 24:40-41 has me questioning this. It doesn't seem to jive with my beliefs. For instance it says that "one will be left" which gives me the idea that life will continue on earth after this "taking" takes place.

Thoughts?
After the Lord returns and raises His people the world will continue 1000 years, the nations will be able to rebuild and continue for that amount of time until at the end of the 1000years Satan is released and a great number of people will try to throw off the rule of the Christ and God will destroy them and the consummation will commence. During the 1000year period the Lord rules the nations with a rod of iron, in other words 'very strict'. Evidently that's why
Satan is able to deceive them into rebelling against the Lord and they will think they can destroy Him and His people.
 
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farout

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I'm Lutheran and I've always been of the persuasion that the rapture occurs on the last day when Christ returns and raises the dead.

Matthew 24:40-41 has me questioning this. It doesn't seem to jive with my beliefs. For instance it says that "one will be left" which gives me the idea that life will continue on earth after this "taking" takes place.

Thoughts?
That belief is called Historical Premillennialism. which I too believe is what Matthew is teaching. If you go back to verse 29, everything after this refers back to this verse, as I understand it.

Other views see things differently, and that is perfectly fine, as we will only know for sure is we are there, or when we die perhaps the LORD will give us a look ahead t know.

A really great book to help you is. THE MEANING OF THE MILLENNIUM: FOUR VIEWS edited by Robert G. Clouse Inter Varsity Press. I have worn out two and given away a couple. I highly suggest you would really enjoy the read.
 
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Hallstone

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Actually, the church is raised way ahead of the 1000 years.
The resurrection of the just happens at reward time/7th trumpet announces it.

Luke 14:14
Yes, we will be raised after the 'last trump' as Paul put it, at the time of the harvest, and then the nations will be allowed to continue for the 1000 years, the river of God will heal the lands and the oceans, and the leaves of the trees along the river will be used for healing which I'm sure we will take part in that healing process, and will witness to the nations and minister to the peoples at that time. Like it says we shall rule with Him.
 
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Widlast

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I'm Lutheran and I've always been of the persuasion that the rapture occurs on the last day when Christ returns and raises the dead.

Matthew 24:40-41 has me questioning this. It doesn't seem to jive with my beliefs. For instance it says that "one will be left" which gives me the idea that life will continue on earth after this "taking" takes place.

Thoughts?
This has got to be one of the most commonly misunderstood verses in all of scripture.
Taken = dead, nothing else.
Two will be working in the field and one will die, and where the corpses are there will the vultures be.
The whole point is that there will be people dropping dead all over the place.
They will die of rather obvious causes, there will be nothing supernatural appearing about it at all.
 
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John Davidson

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This has got to be one of the most commonly misunderstood verses in all of scripture.
Taken = dead, nothing else.
Two will be working in the field and one will die, and where the corpses are there will the vultures be.
The whole point is that there will be people dropping dead all over the place.
They will die of rather obvious causes, there will be nothing supernatural appearing about it at all.

No, that's not what it means.

This is a description of what happens at Christ's coming.
 
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Luke17:37

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This has got to be one of the most commonly misunderstood verses in all of scripture.
Taken = dead, nothing else.
Two will be working in the field and one will die, and where the corpses are there will the vultures be.
The whole point is that there will be people dropping dead all over the place.
They will die of rather obvious causes, there will be nothing supernatural appearing about it at all.

Yes, taken in this context means they die. It's one of the ways God distinguishes His return from the false ones (Matthew 24:28).

Some may just die without supernatural appearance, but not those who are assembled to fight against Jerusalem.

Zechariah 14:12
12 And this shall be the plague with which the Lord will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem:
Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet,
Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets,
And their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths.
 
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