• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.

Featured LDS Matthew 22 & Eternal Marriage

Discussion in 'Debate Other Religions & Faiths' started by Solomon Smith, Sep 25, 2018.

  1. Ironhold

    Ironhold Member

    +1,183
    Mormon
    Single
    Is there any response you would consider to be valid?

    I'm serious here.
     
  2. twin.spin

    twin.spin Trust the LORD and not on your own understanding

    719
    +226
    United States
    Lutheran
    Private
    I do not know if this * is up-to-date quote or not … but if I were to guess why the LDS read into passages that confirm for them eternal marriages, it was explained in *Achieving a Celestial Marriage Student Manual, p. 4
    “The major crowning point of the law which man must obey is eternal marriage.
    Therein lies the keys of eternal life or, as the Doctrine and Covenants puts it, ‘eternal lives.’ In other words, an eternal increase of posterity”

    As you and others correctly pointed out, Biblical Christianity teaches that there is no marriage in heaven.

    What has to be understood concerning the exchange recorded in Matthew 22 was the intention of the questioners of Jesus since those who opposed Jesus have a history of asking trick questions for the purpose to "entangle him in his talk"… and the Sadducees is one such group known to opposed Jesus.
     
  3. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ Supporter

    +8,187
    United States
    Protestant
    Widowed
    Eternal life is obtained only by obeying all of the laws of God.

    There are three degrees in the celestial kingdom.
    1. A person must comply with the ordinance and requirements of celestial marriage to obtain the highest degree of glory.

    2. Only in the highest degree of the celestial kingdom can husband and wife continue to have an increase.
      “The Way to Eternal Life, Lesson 50: Sections 131–32,” Doctrine and Covenants Instructor’s Guide: Religion 324–325 (1981), 99–100

      The Way to Eternal Life, Lesson 50: Sections 131–32
     
  4. Peter1000

    Peter1000 Well-Known Member

    +334
    Mormon
    Married
    You can interpret "being heirs "together" of EL" as you wish. The Church of Jesus Christ just interprets it to mean that we "together" as husband and wife, can have a eternal marriage.

    Most will be single, some will be married and continue to expand forever and ever, no end of our growth potential.
     
  5. Peter1000

    Peter1000 Well-Known Member

    +334
    Mormon
    Married
    I am reading marriage into the scripture, and you are reading marriage out of the scripture. You may have your interpretation, and I will have mine. I will continue to prepare myself to be married to my wife for the eternities and have continual and everlasting expansion and growth.

    Those who are single will remain in that status for the eternities, not being able to progress or expand or grow.

    You choose, marriage and eternal expansion, or single and no expansion or progress. I choose marriage.
     
  6. Peter1000

    Peter1000 Well-Known Member

    +334
    Mormon
    Married
    You have been given a thorough explanation, you just choose to invalidate it because of your interpretation of scripture.
    So don't say you have received no valid explanation, but say what you received, is, to you not true, because it certainly is a valid explanation, you just refuse to believe it. And that is OK, as for me I will continue to prepare for an EL with my wife, and will enjoy eternity in an ever expanding and progressive increase of joy and happiness with our children.

    You prepare to be a single person with no chance to progress or increase and with no desire to sire children. Have fun.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2018
  7. Peter1000

    Peter1000 Well-Known Member

    +334
    Mormon
    Married
    I see your problem, your 1 Peter 3:7 is the Am. Standard Version(ASV) which has left out the word, "together". You see they did not like the idea of husband and wife being married in heaven, and so they changed the KJV to fit more of their agenda.

    When you include that the husband and wife, are joint-heirs "together" of the grace of life (EL), then it makes more reasonable to interpret it the way the Church of Jesus Christ interprets it.
     
  8. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

    +4,675
    United States
    SDA
    Widowed
    US-Others
    No, it makes no sense according to what scripture says. To me there is no doubt that those who are married and are both saved, will still be together in heaven--but there is no sex in heaven. We are like the angels---Jesus was very clear about it. We will all be one family. The one thing I know is that whatever God chooses to take from us, He will always replace with something better. There is not one single word about us having the ability to continue to have children, nothing even vaguely suggests it. I do know that the angels are not up there having sex as they are all given only male names! And nothing says they are reproducing. We do not require sex and having children in order to "grow." JS was speaking strictly from a carnal understanding of life. There will be children in heaven---There will be literally billions and billions of them---all the innocent that have died. We will get to raise them.
     
  9. Peter1000

    Peter1000 Well-Known Member

    +334
    Mormon
    Married
    The words "husband and wife shall be joint-heirs "together" of EL, should give you pause for at least a minute. And the idea that there is nothing that even vaguely suggests that we will have children in heaven is certainly questionable when you line up all the scriptures that have to do with marriage and man and woman and husband and wife. Line up all these scriptures and there has to at least be doubt as to whether your belief should be adjusted.

    Let me just give you a couple of such verses:
    Genesis 2:18 and Matthew 19:6 and of course 1 Peter 3:7

    The concepts in these 3 of many scriptures indicate eternal duration, not just temporary.
    1) "it is not good for man to be alone" is not prefaced by anything that would indicate "just on this earth", but stands on its own that "it is not good for man to be alone", period, which includes eternity.
    2) "what God has "joined together", no man shall put asunder, is not prefaced with "just on this earth". There is that word "together" again. If God joins a husband and wife "together", it is Gods time we are talking about, and that is eternity that a husband and wife will be "joined together".
    3) "and they shall be one flesh", is not prefaced with "just in this earthlife", but is an eternal relationship that God has established. In fact, do you know the meaning of "they will be one flesh"? It has to do with making children. It is when a husband and wife are at the point of being "one flesh" that the child is conceived. A very important concept in the earth and in heaven.
    And again, no preface of "their being one flesh" is just for this earth time, but is an eternal process.
    4) finally, husband and wife shall be joint-heirs "together" of all that the Father has, especially EL.
    This statement does not necessarily suggest that the husband and wife will be best friends "together, forever, although, I can see how you can interpret it that way because of the bias of your belief system.

    Putting all the husband and wife scriptures together though, and there are others that I have not mentioned, the idea that there is not a hint of eternal marriage or not even a vague suggestion that there is eternal marriage is what a blind person would say to defend their position to the death. If you were at least intellectually honest, you must stop and say, let me research this further, I have never thought of these things in this manner before.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2018
  10. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

    +4,675
    United States
    SDA
    Widowed
    US-Others
    Then line them up and do not read into them what is not there. Everything is read in light of the words of Jesus---we will be as the angels, there is no marriage. That means no sex--period. The angels do not reproduce. I will not "adjust" the words of Jesus to suit my own thoughts.


    Adam was alone--there was none like him, there was no helper for him---The saved will have billions of others like themselves, there will be billions of males and females--we will not be alone.

    Those that have been married and both are saved will still be together---together does not mean married for Jesus clearly states there is no marriage therefore no sex. Sex is what makes us one flesh.

    Those that are both saved will always be together. All the saved will always be together.

    You can not be "intellectually honest" and reject what Jesus clearly says.
     
  11. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ Supporter

    +8,187
    United States
    Protestant
    Widowed
    Solomon isn't having a problem with God's word. Latter-day Saints(Mormons) are!

    1 Peter 3
    7 Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.

    This says nothing about marriage being essential to eternal life. It is addressed to followers of Christ who are married. The topic is how to not have one's prayers hindered.
     
  12. Peter1000

    Peter1000 Well-Known Member

    +334
    Mormon
    Married
    So you line them all up and then you sweep them all aside because of a wrong interpretation from 1 scripture.

    Jesus did not say there will be no marriage in heaven, he said there will be no marrying after the resurrection. He is right, but those that were married before the resurrection in His name will remain married and have children, they will be one continually, for evernity. This is our belief, there is plenty of scripture to back it up, and so you can believe or not.

    If you believe not you will be a single person forever, with no chance to progress beyond your singleness.

    I on the other hand do believe and if I stay worthy to my wife and to my God, I will be married forever, and have children and through their good works will continue to expand forever and ever as one generation expands upon the other, but not just generational, but eternally increasing and growing as my children multipy and become like me and my wife, they too will have eternal increase with no view of coming to an end.

    You on the other hand will be with billions of other neutered singles with no increase and no growth.
    You will be with your friends and that will be nice because you will not have to be bothered with children and that nonsense.
     
  13. Peter1000

    Peter1000 Well-Known Member

    +334
    Mormon
    Married
    This is addressed to married followers of Christ, and he is letting them know that they will continue to be together as a husband and wife in EL with him.

    I guess you think that when Jesus mentions that the husband and wife will be heirs "together" to EL, that means that they will simply know each other and will be together, but not as husband and wife.

    You will have to show me where this scripture even hints that they as husbands and wives
    will be heirs "together" of EL, but will be single and neutered? Please show me this from the scripture.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2018
  14. BigDaddy4

    BigDaddy4 Movin' on...

    +1,587
    Christian
    Married
    Your theology does not make sense. If you believe this:
    Jesus did not say there will be no marriage in heaven, he said there will be no marrying after the resurrection.

    Then this cannot happen without children being born out of wedlock:
    continue to expand forever and ever as one generation expands upon the other, but not just generational, but eternally increasing and growing as my children multipy and become like me and my wife,

    Are you sure God would allow children being born to unwed parents? The alternative is that you and your wife will keep having kids for eternity, but they in turn cannot have any.
     
  15. BigDaddy4

    BigDaddy4 Movin' on...

    +1,587
    Christian
    Married
    What is this thing you have that being single means one is "neutered"? There is no other option???
     
  16. Peter1000

    Peter1000 Well-Known Member

    +334
    Mormon
    Married
    No, according to mmsparbud we will all be single and not having babies. Therefore we must be neutered because we will not have the desire to have babies.

    So I agreed with her about those that are single for eternity. For those that are married for eternity they will continue with the desire to have children. What I don't know is if that takes the same form as siring children here on earth. It may be a completely different process in heaven, but until we get there and see, it is all speculation.

    But I believe I can say that for those who are single. No desire, no children.
     
  17. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

    +4,675
    United States
    SDA
    Widowed
    US-Others
    There is no way that you can read "Mar_12:25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven," And come away with "and have children," You just can't. the angels are not reproductive beings. Your own teachings state that! What on earth makes you think that "singleness" is some sort of a curse or underprivilege? Jesus is single-will remain so---He is our husband! He is wedded to His church! There will be billions of saved, all of us together, as one! We will all progress together and learn together even more about God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit and about everything that God has created---just as the angels!! Why is what the word of God says not enough for you? If you want more than what God says He will give you, then you can not be with Him. He only wants those that are happy with what He has to give. That was Lucifer's problem, wanting more than what God said he was to have.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2018
  18. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

    +4,675
    United States
    SDA
    Widowed
    US-Others

    Mat_22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
    In the resurrection. That is everyone. The angels do not have a desire for children, they do not have the capacity, neither will we. There will be billions of children to raise--all those that have died.
     
  19. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ Supporter

    +8,187
    United States
    Protestant
    Widowed
    Neutered? What??? Are you suggesting that resurrected humans need reproductive organs that function like ours? What does that have to do with being like the angels who are single and not married?

    Should non-Latter-day Saints read what Joseph Fielding Smith added to God's word?

    Some of the functions in the celestial body will not appear in the terrestrial body, neither in the telestial body, and the power of procreation will be removed. I take it that men and women will, in these kingdoms, be just what the so-called Christian world expects us all to be—neither man nor woman, merely immortal beings having received the resurrection.
    Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 2:288
     
  20. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

    +4,675
    United States
    SDA
    Widowed
    US-Others
    This whole business of marriage and having children and our own planets as the ultimate gift of God is so carnally humanistic!
    You think the angels and Jesus Christ are up there feeling deprived and frustrated at not having sex and children???? God gave us that gift at the Garden. It was given and commanded by Him---not by Satan and the fall!! If God, in His wisdom and His love for us, has determined that sex will no longer be to our benefit---who is anyone to decide otherwise??? This stems from the carnal, lustful nature of JS and his believe that God the Father has a wife and we are the product of their union! If he was of God, he would know that God the Father---the Son and the Holy Spirit are all both male and female---we are in their image--but separated into male and female. They are one. If JS had any concept of the Jewish way of thinking and of the meaning of His name and of the "breasts" mentioned and what it actually means he would neve have come up with that concept. That is why you people have no idea of who God is--you have taken the bible out of your understanding of God and replaced it with what JS believes. That is what happens when we look to the believes of men instead of what the bible says. That is what is so alarming--for if you do not know God, He will not know you. If you are wanting what God will not provide---then you will not be in His presence. Sex and children and planets are not what eternal life is about--it is about being with God the Father and His Son and the Holy Spirit and all of us being one, as They are. That is ultimate attainment and joy---if you don't think that is enough, you will end up with nothing at all.
     
Loading...