Matthew 1:1

[Timothew]

Matthew 11:5

τυφλοι αναβλεπουσιν και χωλοι περιπατουσιν λεπροι καθαριζονται και κωφοι ακουουσιν νεκροι εγειρονται και πτωχοι ευαγγελιζονται

blind they-see-again and lame they-walk leper cleansed and deaf they-hear dead raised and poor given-good-news

the blind see again, the lame walk. Lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear. The dead are raised to life and the poor are given good news.

 

[Timothew]

Matthew 11:6

και μακαριος εστιν ος εαν μη σκανδαλισθη εν εμοι

and blessed is the-one if not snared in me.

And whoever is not snared by association with me is blessed."

Matthew 11:4-6 are one unit, I didn't want to break them up.

και αποκριθεις ο ιησους ειπεν αυτοις πορευθεντες απαγγειλατε ιωαννη α ακουετε και βλεπετε
τυφλοι αναβλεπουσιν και χωλοι περιπατουσιν λεπροι καθαριζονται και κωφοι ακουουσιν νεκροι εγειρονται και πτωχοι ευαγγελιζονται
και μακαριος εστιν ος εαν μη σκανδαλισθη εν εμοι

Jesus replied to them, "Go report to John what you have heard and seen, the blind see again, the lame walk. Lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear, The dead are raised to life and the poor are given good news. And whoever is not scandalized by association with me is blessed."

 

[Radagast]

Matthew 11:5

τυφλοι αναβλεπουσιν και χωλοι περιπατουσιν λεπροι καθαριζονται και κωφοι ακουουσιν νεκροι εγειρονται και πτωχοι ευαγγελιζονται

blind they-see-again and lame they-walk leper cleansed and deaf they-hear dead raised and poor given-good-news

the blind see again, the lame walk. Lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear.
The poor are given good news.

I think you lost the dead being raised.

BTW, in your "literal" middle line, I presume you saw that the verbs ending in ονται are passives ("they-are-cleansed," "they-are-raised," "they-are-given-good-news"). At least you've got the "are" in the final translation.

 

[Radagast]

And whoever is not snared by association with me is blessed.

I think you were closer before with "scandalised."

LSJ: σκανδαλ-ίζω (passive): to be made to stumble, take offence

ESV: And blessed is the one who is not offended by me.

1984 NIV: Blessed is the man who does not fall away on account of me.

new NIV: Blessed is anyone who does not stumble on account of me.

 

[Timothew]

I think you lost the dead being raised.

BTW, in your "literal" middle line, I presume you saw that the verbs ending in ονται are passives ("they-are-cleansed," "they-are-raised," "they-are-given-good-news"). At least you've got the "are" in the final translation.

Yes, I don't really like the middle line. I guess when I started this, I was reacting to the line "I like the KJV because it is a word for word literal translation." There is no literal word for word translation, it wouldn't make sense. As my middle translation shows, and doesn't make much sense.

I did lose the dead being raised. I will fix it. Thank You!
The dead being raised is very important to me, this is my only hope.

 

[Radagast]

The dead being raised is very important to me

Acts 23:6: Now when Paul perceived that one part were Sadducees and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, “Brothers, I am a Pharisee, a son of Pharisees. It is with respect to the hope of the resurrection of the dead that I am on trial.”

I assume you left it out just to see if we were paying attention.

 

[Timothew]

"It is with respect to the hope of the resurrection of the dead that I am on trial"

I know the feeling. I've been mocked for this hope on CF. I put those guys on ignore.

 

[Timothew]

I think it's time to leave off the first translation, the supposed "word for word" translation. The point is made, there is no word for word translation, not even the Blessed and Holy King James Version. (Which I like, it's okay, I just don't see what the fuss is all about. It's 500 years old, written in 500 year old language and there are now better translations.)

 

[he-man]

Matthew 11:4

και αποκριθεις ο ιησους ειπεν αυτοις πορευθεντες απαγγειλατε ιωαννη α ακουετε και βλεπετε

and answering the Jesus told them go report-to John what you-hear and you-see

Jesus replied to them, "Go report to John what you have heard and seen,

Mat 11:4 και αποκριθεις ο ιησους ειπεν αυτοις πορευθεντες απαγγειλατε ιωαννη α ακουετε και βλεπετε

Mat 11:4 Jesus answered and said to them, make your way to relate to John that which you hear and see:

 

[he-man]

Matthew 11:5

τυφλοι αναβλεπουσιν και χωλοι περιπατουσιν λεπροι καθαριζονται και κωφοι ακουουσιν νεκροι εγειρονται και πτωχοι ευαγγελιζονται

blind they-see-again and lame they-walk leper cleansed and deaf they-hear dead raised and poor given-good-news

the blind see again, the lame walk. Lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear. The dead are raised to life and the poor are given good news.

Mat 11:5 τυφλοι αναβλεπουσιν και χωλοι περιπατουσιν λεπροι καθαριζονται και κωφοι ακουουσιν και νεκροι εγειρονται και πτωχοι ευαγγελιζονται

Mat 11:5 The blind see again, and the halt amble, the infected with leprosy are clean, and the deaf mute hear, and the dead are upraised, and the beggarly have the good tidings.

Mat 11:6 και μακαριος εστιν ος εαν μη σκανδαλισθη εν εμοι
Mat 11:6 And blessed is whoever shall not be scandalized in me.

 

[he-man]

messed it up please cancel and repost

 

[Radagast]

I think it's time to leave off the first translation, the supposed "word for word" translation. The point is made, there is no word for word translation, not even the Blessed and Holy King James Version. (Which I like, it's okay, I just don't see what the fuss is all about. It's 500 years old, written in 500 year old language and there are now better translations.)

I do like the idea of an intermediate "literal" translation (I often do this myself) as a way of showing your thinking.

 

[Timothew]

I do like the idea of an intermediate "literal" translation (I often do this myself) as a way of showing your thinking.

Okay, I'll "show my work", like back in math class. But the intermediate is just a step in the process.

 

[he-man]

Okay, I'll "show my work", like back in math class. But the intermediate is just a step in the process.

I think it is a great way for you to learn Greek without any hinderance from Orthodox conformist thinking. You started this thread and you can do it anyway you choose. It is not up to me or anyone else to change your way of presenting the Koine Greek.

If you read the Diaglott, you will see that Griesbach did the same thing, word for word!

 

[Timothew]

Matthew 11:7

τουτων δε πορευομενων ηρξατο ο ιησους λεγειν τοις οχλοις περι ιωαννου τι εξηλθετε εις την ερημον θεασασθαι καλαμον υπο ανεμου σαλευομενον

these but going began the Jesus speak to-the crowd about John what went into the wilderness see reed under/by wind shaken

As those men were leaving, Jesus began to speak to the crowd about John. "What were you going into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken under the wind?"

 

[Radagast]

Matthew 11:7

τουτων δε πορευομενων ηρξατο ο ιησους λεγειν τοις οχλοις περι ιωαννου τι εξηλθετε εις την ερημον θεασασθαι καλαμον υπο ανεμου σαλευομενον

these but going began the Jesus speak to-the crowd about John what went into the wilderness see reed under/by wind shaken

As those men were leaving, Jesus began to speak to the crowd about John. "What were you going into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken under the wind?"

I had to double-check a few books to be sure, but υπο with the genitive (-ο&#965 means "by" here, as usual (in the sense of "by an agent"). Only with the accusative does υπο mean "under."

The same thing came up in 8:24 (υπο των κυματων = by the waves) although, looking back, I see you had "under" there too.

I've learned something here -- I thought this construction was used primarily with people, but I see there are several cases where it applies to things considered as agents as well.

 

[Timothew]

I had to double-check a few books to be sure, but υπο with the genitive (-ο&#965 means "by" here, as usual (in the sense of "by an agent"). Only with the accusative does υπο mean "under."

The same thing came up in 8:24 (υπο των κυματων = by the waves) although, looking back, I see you had "under" there too.

I've learned something here -- I thought this construction was used primarily with people, but I see there are several cases where it applies to things considered as agents as well.

Excellent! Thank you. I was wondering why upo was sometimes translated by and sometimes under. I remembered your block of Swiss Cheese and the mouse upo the cheese. "A reed shaken by the wind".

That is good to know. Thank you very much.

 

[Timothew]

I nearly put "a reed shaken under (the influence of) the wind." But I didn't because the words "the influence of" are not there.

 

[Radagast]

I remembered your block of Swiss Cheese and the mouse upo the cheese.

Yeah, the block of cheese doesn't capture the fact that several prepositions have a meaning dependent on case. Another one is ὑπέρ which (with the genitive) means "on behalf of." Also περι which (with the genitive) means "concerning."

Preposition-case combinations like that really have to be treated almost as different words.

 

[Timothew]

I'll have to be careful with the preps.