masturbation!!!

[Scribbler]

Evidence please. Credible scientific studies... if any.

How could there be "Credible scientific studies" that masturbation harms you spiritually?
Lust is a sin, much like Greed or Anger. Masturbation feeds that lust, causing it to want more. I've listed evidence with you-work with support groups overcoming sex addiction and try to tell them masturbation is never harmful or addictive. Could you look at them in the eye and tell them they're not an addict? Many of them lost wives, families, money, and jobs to their addiction. Is that not evidence enough? Does it being "anecdotal" negate the truth of it?

Here's an article from http://healthymind.com/s-strung-out.html A secular mental health center.
"People dismiss the effects of sex addiction because they're not "chemical," but "drugs, in fact, are involved," writes Carnes, "in the form of naturally occurring peptides such as endorphins." In Don't Call It Love (Bantam Books), he notes that "these peptides parallel the molecular construction of opiates like morphine, but they are many times more powerful."
Then there's phenylethylamine (PEA), dubbed the "molecule of love." Structurally it parallels amphetamine, creating a high-arousal state whose intensity soon tapers off. Both PEA and arousal spike in the presence of fear, risk and danger (common elements of addictive sexual experiences).
The biochemicals of sex stimulate what's sometimes called the pleasure center of the brain, an area that, when electrically stimulated, causes rats to ignore the need for food and sleep in a frenzy of pleasure. For those who've wondered about certain perversities, this area also hooks up to the control area for bathroom functions, according to Dr. Candace B. Pert. In Molecules of Emotion (Scribner), she reports studies of hamsters, which [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] predictably and frequently. Blood endorphin levels increased by about 200 percent from the beginning to the end of the sex act, she notes.
Sex is powerful because it moves so fluidly between conscious and unconscious, emotional and chemical, physical and spiritual realms. The downside is that its biochemistry can be as addictive as that of a synthetic drug. If we keep repeating an experience that affects our brain's chemistry, we start depending on that experience to feel balanced.
If we look at the psychological motivation for addiction as well as its pathway through the brain, we find three basic categories: arousal addictions that stimulate and thrill; satiation addictions that ease tension and discomfort; fantasy addictions that escape mundane reality. Drugs are stimulants, or opiates, or hallucinogens, but sex spans all three neuro-pathways. In other words, it can fill any addictive need a human being can muster."

So, there's some "credible science"...if it matters. I suspect everyone's got their minds made up already. But if masturbation/sex was not addictive, there would not be workshops, support groups, psychologists, and even clinics (turns out they do have them) to deal with this addiction. Like I said earlier, not everyone who masturbates turns into a sex addict. I'm simply asking you not to deny it's potential to.
Some more evidence/ resources. Again, if it matters.
http://www.netspeed.com.au/ttguy/refs2.htm#lab
http://www.csun.edu/~psy453/addict_y.htm
http://www.nationalcoalition.org/resourcesservices/stat.html

 

[Samsara]

Samsara:
I think you need to take a reading comprehesion class... or need to open up your mind a bit to the real world (But that is just MY opinion... I guess that means nothing, right?) because everything you are "refuting" is already stated in the text. But that is just MY opinion... I guess that means nothing, right?

Is it really necessary to begin insulting the person with whom you're engaging in discourse? What if my mental acumen was substandard? Do you think it really good & necessary to intentionally offend one of God's creations? As a Christian beacon of light do you think you harm or help with statements such as "I think you need to take a reading comprehesion class(...)"?

Please don't misunderstand - your opinions do not mean nothing! But let's call them what they are - your opinions. Not facts, not evidence, not statistics...but your own experience. Experience is sometimes everything but not when used as fictional statistics.

Other random things I saw that need answering:

Yes, I am a christian, and no where did I say hate the sinner... That was you assumption. With you being such an expert on morals I thought you would see that.

When you said to hate the "source" [of the sin] I didn't make an assumption. If a person didn't exist s/he couldn't sin, therefore the source is the person. Perhaps I didn't read it as you intended it but I can't mind read on most days so please pardon me.

Your websites show nothing of which I was talking about, and thus, are STILL irrellavent. You are refuting something in which I am not even claiming. YOu are saying that masturbation causes rape. I never said that; it was another false assumption on your behalf. I DID say it aids in rape with it literally fueling sexual desires if not used in moderation. Since I know I can be wrong, and I did misword what I said, please show men, and I will quickly appolloguize.

I have never said that masturbation causes rape. My entire posts have attempted to convey the opposite. The websites I linked to pointedly state that rape is NOT about sexual drive but about domination and control. In many areas you stated that it would lead to rape. Why, now, would you change your position and attempt to say that that has been my theory? Surely you want the proper credit.

To whit, these are quotes by YOU from your posts in this thread:

Heres an interesting fact: If everyone did not habitually desire the sexual feeling that one recieves with masturbation, there would be almost no rape.

Well knowing that over 90% of men (just a low estimated guess) in america have this addiction to masturbation, or has had at one time, (more than likely ended once they were married) I would hope you would change your thinking. As I stated before, masturbation can cause, and has proof of being the source of rapes, and violence.

Not to mention that the point of what I was talking about is that nearly every rapists is addicited to masturbation and pornography.

Now, who is saying that masturbation causes rape? WHO has been trying to link together masturbation and rape? Clearly you. Absolutely not me.

My percentages:
As I said also, my 90% is a low guess estimate. Take it however you want, but every guy knows that every guy has masturbated at least once... it's an inside guy joke thing. I am HOPING that 10% of men are not in the circle.

No. Actually you said, in an EARLIER post: "Well knowing that over 90% of men (just a low estimated guess) in america have this addiction to masturbation, or has had at one time [...]"

No, no, no... Let's not go flip-flopping yet again! You first said "Well knowing" [which presupposes a common sense, well known fact] and then you say "have this addiction to masturbation" but NOW you're attempting to say that you said "that every guy has masturbated at least once[...]".

Doing something once is not an addiction. So either you are saying that once = addiction or you're trying to change your position without anyone noticing. Either way, you're misinterpreting [intentionally?] your original stance.

Last thing: You love to pound my sources...

You have had no sources to pound. Ergo, I could not have pounded your sources.

My sources are (yes) my own, and also every guy in which I have talked to. Being a guy, I am entitled to a much more accurate assesment of mens sexuallity that you... I would hope.

Again, those are not sources. They are your experiences. A source is either a scholastic abstract, a statistic, a book by a professional, scientific research, or even to stretch, it could be your own field study. However, "every guy in which I have talked to" doesn't impress me because I do not know your credentials. If you were an inmate in a sex offenders prison, "every guy in which I have talked to" would hardly be an objective field study.

Your last sentence rails me.

With me still being a virgin, and know that almost every guy in high school (except for few) is not a virgin by the time of graduation, I would assume my sexual drive is more controlable then most guys... but as you say, that is my own personal experiance.

Perhaps it is. Perhaps it is at that. And if that makes you comfortable, that's great. Good for you!

By the way... my beleifes are not "emotional tizzies" Peace

Thank you for clarifying your belief, but I disagree. This does not mean I am right... it just means I disagree. Based on your switching of positions....saying you said something and then changing it around to suit your current post, and then to blatantly say that I said masturbation leads to rape...? Making up facts, and statistics... All evidence points to an emotional tizzie, based on the criteria I use to assess whether a person is in a current state of tizziness.

Wishing you non-tizzie,
Samsara

 

[freyajem]

Well, all I can say is that the only outlet I have for sexual frustration is masturbation. So if what is on my thoughts at the time of masturbating is lust and I'm going to hell for lust, then here I come hell. Because I am damned on every corner, no covet, no do it, nothing....all that is left is hold it in till I bust, go crazy...it's all hell.

 

[Scribbler]

"Lust" is not what sends someone to hell.

 

[freyajem]

"Lust" is not what sends someone to hell.

Then what's to discuss?

 

[Inside Edge]

You have had no sources to pound. Ergo, I could not have pounded your sources.

Wonderful!

xtxArchxAngelxtx:

You are indeed projecting your own conclusions about life, based (thus far) entirely on your own experiences, on to the masses. Do you honestly believe or think that your experience is sufficient to draw blanket conclusions about the entirety of sexuality or sexual habits? Even so, your comments are often puzzling.

On one hand, you claim that the women here can't comment on male sexuality with the same authority as you, because you are male. You admit that men can't have a clear understanding of women's sex drives, yet you see fit to make generalized and authoritative statements about women's sex drives being weaker (than a man's), about when women's sex drives ramp-up, and make claims involving comparsins between the two.

Samsara has already called you out on your argument's change of direction (or at least the severe lack of clarity to it). Speaking of her...

Samsara:
I think you need to take a reading comprehesion class...

I must need one as well. I don't require any support whatsoever when it comes to your opinion on the issue. However, when you extend your opinion and your personal experiences as "moral facts" (whatever that means), make blanket conclusions about an entire gender, and then say explicitly:

I am not merely going off my own experiances.

...I think it is reasonable to demand something other than "every guy I know" as argumentative support. So far, nothing in your posts has been even moderately convincing.



The bare truth of the matter is, you struggle with masturbation to some extent and for your own reasons. You may even know a few other guys who struggle with it for their own reasons (which may or may not be the same as yours). You may know lots of guys who mastrubate regularly. However, this does not mean that they struggle with it or that it is an addiction.

From a technical standpoint, your theory amounts to sexual release or [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] being highly addictive, for everyone (at least for men). Are all married men addicted to sex? What is it about masturbation that is more addictive than good, old-fashioned sex?

 

[Scribbler]

How could there be "Credible scientific studies" that masturbation harms you spiritually?
Lust is a sin, much like Greed or Anger. Masturbation feeds that lust, causing it to want more. I've listed evidence with you-work with support groups overcoming sex addiction and try to tell them masturbation is never harmful or addictive. Could you look at them in the eye and tell them they're not an addict? Many of them lost wives, families, money, and jobs to their addiction. Is that not evidence enough? Does it being "anecdotal" negate the truth of it?

Here's an article from http://healthymind.com/s-strung-out.html A secular mental health center.
"People dismiss the effects of sex addiction because they're not "chemical," but "drugs, in fact, are involved," writes Carnes, "in the form of naturally occurring peptides such as endorphins." In Don't Call It Love (Bantam Books), he notes that "these peptides parallel the molecular construction of opiates like morphine, but they are many times more powerful."
Then there's phenylethylamine (PEA), dubbed the "molecule of love." Structurally it parallels amphetamine, creating a high-arousal state whose intensity soon tapers off. Both PEA and arousal spike in the presence of fear, risk and danger (common elements of addictive sexual experiences).
The biochemicals of sex stimulate what's sometimes called the pleasure center of the brain, an area that, when electrically stimulated, causes rats to ignore the need for food and sleep in a frenzy of pleasure. For those who've wondered about certain perversities, this area also hooks up to the control area for bathroom functions, according to Dr. Candace B. Pert. In Molecules of Emotion (Scribner), she reports studies of hamsters, which [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] predictably and frequently. Blood endorphin levels increased by about 200 percent from the beginning to the end of the sex act, she notes.
Sex is powerful because it moves so fluidly between conscious and unconscious, emotional and chemical, physical and spiritual realms. The downside is that its biochemistry can be as addictive as that of a synthetic drug. If we keep repeating an experience that affects our brain's chemistry, we start depending on that experience to feel balanced.
If we look at the psychological motivation for addiction as well as its pathway through the brain, we find three basic categories: arousal addictions that stimulate and thrill; satiation addictions that ease tension and discomfort; fantasy addictions that escape mundane reality. Drugs are stimulants, or opiates, or hallucinogens, but sex spans all three neuro-pathways. In other words, it can fill any addictive need a human being can muster."

So, there's some "credible science"...if it matters. I suspect everyone's got their minds made up already. But if masturbation/sex was not addictive, there would not be workshops, support groups, psychologists, and even clinics (turns out they do have them) to deal with this addiction. Like I said earlier, not everyone who masturbates turns into a sex addict. I'm simply asking you not to deny it's potential to.
Some more evidence/ resources. Again, if it matters.
http://www.netspeed.com.au/ttguy/refs2.htm#lab
http://www.csun.edu/~psy453/addict_y.htm
[url="http://www.nationalcoalition.org/resourcesservices/stat.html"]http://www.nationalcoalition.org/resourcesservices/stat.html[/url]

Strange. I brought evidence and scietific studies and everyone disappeared.

 

[Chrono Traveler]

Strange. I brought evidence and scietific studies and everyone disappeared.

No, actually I think that last post by Inside Edge kinda nailed it...sorry.

 

[seebs]

Strange. I brought evidence and scietific studies and everyone disappeared.

I see no science here.

 

[Ben Borg Again]

considering how many hits on this thread, I would conclude masturbation is a very popular and widespread practice ( a.k.a. normal), while rape is not a very popular practice., I dont think 90% of the male population who masturbates at least every other day rapes people...ok carry on with the discussion.

 

[blue_crystal]

Masturbation: harmless, healthy, not condemned in Scripture. How many times is this going to be rehashed?

 

[christianrock1]

Is mastubating considered to be a sin?

Yes. Although it's not anywhere written in Scripture,I've prayed about it,and God spoke to me and told me that it is.

 

[seebs]

Yes. Although it's not anywhere written in Scripture,I've prayed about it,and God spoke to me and told me that it is.

What are we to make of the existence of people who get different answers? (Note that this question goes far beyond this issue.)

 

[christianrock1]

What are we to make of the existence of people who get different answers? (Note that this question goes far beyond this issue.)

I heard somewhere that a sin for one person is not a sin for another person,that could be the solution.

 

[Hooch]

Lust is a sin, much like Greed or Anger. Masturbation feeds that lust, causing it to want more.

Hmmm.... doesn't it relieve that lust?

 

[Chrono Traveler]

Lust is a sin, much like Greed or Anger. Masturbation feeds that lust, causing it to want more.

Hmmm.... doesn't it relieve that lust?

Lust is human, we lust in our sleep. There is no love(I mean with a partner, so don't try and twist it) without lust..

Yes..I say it does relieve lust, and its not hurting you if you do.

 

[Scribbler]

So, there's some "credible science"...if it matters. I suspect everyone's got their minds made up already.

*Shrugs* Like I said...

 

[Scribbler]

I heard somewhere that a sin for one person is not a sin for another person,that could be the solution.

There's some sound biblical teaching.

 

[Scribbler]

Lust is a sin, much like Greed or Anger. Masturbation feeds that lust, causing it to want more.

Hmmm.... doesn't it relieve that lust?

Sure, for a time. It also can exacerbate it, especially if it's done continually and often. That's when it crosses over into addiction. As I said, twice, not everyone who does it becomes addicted, but working with those who have become addicted makes it impossible for me to say it's 100% 'harmless'. Giving over to lust raises the endorphins levels in your brain, causing it to revel in the situation. If it's done often enough, eventually your brain longs for that endorphin rush. People asked for scientific evidence to back that up and I provided.

 

[henrylee100]

Sure, for a time. It also can exacerbate it, especially if it's done continually and often. That's when it crosses over into addiction. As I said, twice, not everyone who does it becomes addicted, but working with those who have become addicted makes it impossible for me to say it's 100% 'harmless'. Giving over to lust raises the endorphins levels in your brain, causing it to revel in the situation. If it's done often enough, eventually your brain longs for that endorphin rush. People asked for scientific evidence to back that up and I provided.

lust and all , it's all true, but isn't it basically true for any addiction, or obsessive habit and not just masturbation? Say people who collect things, or rock band fans, I remember back when I was seriously into all things Jim Morrison I once saw a CD called the Missing Links at an open air market, I asked the vendor to put it on for me and as soon as I heard Jim sing ,"Well I tell you a story of whisky and mystics and men" it felt as if the whole world around me just ceased to be. Now addiction is bad, so if masturbation becomes an addiction it's also bad, no question about that, but I remember reading somewhere that the male reproductive system may get jammed unless it's flushed regularly, in other words a certain ammount of sperm is produced within a certain amount of time and if it just sits there things might go wrong, there is a condition called priest's desease, which a special case of impotence brought about by the reproductive system not being used over a prolonged period of time, the name comes from the fact that it was most often found in catholic priests who all vow total celibacy. Now it might be ok for a catholic priest, but what about a young guy who plans to marry later on but who can't do it until he's finished college and got a good job so he can support his family, in other words until he's done all the things required of him by the modern society to qualify for marriage. And suppose this guy goes to church and all and honestly believes that pre marital sex is a no no, and suppose that he only gets a real chance to get married at 25, and until that age he's supposed to not use his reproductive organs on females. If masturbation is totally exculded as an alternative, chances are that by 25 he might not be able to use them even on his legitimate bride, because he might have developed the priest desease by then. And in fact it doesn't have to be 25, for most people puberty comest at 13 14 but the legal marriage age is at 18-21, so what happens is that there is at least four years in which you're told you can't do it with a woman, but your body's already going nuts forcing you to do it. what do you have left in this period? No wonder so many turn to masturbation, and many are then plagued by guilt, perhapst this very guilt that comes of all the taboos surrounding masturbation is in fact conducive to the big M turning into an addiction with all the forbidden fruit implications and all.