xtxArchxAngelxtx said:
Considering the fact that mens sexuallity is much different and much more "intense" then a females, it does not surprise me in the least you would say this.
EVERY MAN deals with this issue. Few conqure it- simple truth.
If what you're saying is true how is it that men still have the time to run the world? If few *conquer this addiction.* Talk to me about conquering addiction. Please. Try. I implore you. Not really.
You speak of all these *simple truths* and *facts* and *statistics* yet I see no sources. Again, I have to say here you have inverted your experience and attempted to make it a universal truth.
Your first scenarios seems very irrellevant to me. If you could, please explain it.
As far as the alcohol goes, yes, it would behoove of you to start a temprence movement as you have said. Why not? As I have stated before, anything fleshly is addictive. However, of course, the addictions stength is EXTREMELY circumstantual. I for one like to think of myself as strong minded and so would others I know, but that does not make my other addictions simply go away.
Yes, sugar is addictive, but now you are becoming ridicilous and you know it, nor will I say anything more about this irrational statement.
Rational: ADJECTIVE:
- Having or exercising the ability to reason.
- Of sound mind; sane.
Sure. You extract "facts" from your so-called life experience but my statements [scenarios], are irrational. [?] A good argument does consist of more than *cause it happened to me* and you must either be categorically scared to death you're wrong or scared that if we don't attach to your beliefs you'll end up never leaving your house in the throes of your addiction?
Your statements were so generalized that the scenarios I offered were completely in-line in disproving your hypothesis. Your refutation of them does not make them less so.
Well knowing that over 90% of men (just a low estimated guess) in america have this addiction to masturbation, or has had at one time, (more than likely ended once they were married) I would hope you would change your thinking. As I stated before, masturbation can cause, and has proof of being the source of rapes, and violence. Every single rapist in america was "addicted" to pornography, and along with pronography comes masturbation and the bodly need for sex. You may not know this, but lack of sexual needs creates frustration and even anger and violence in some men. This can happen to ANY man if the circumstances are right.
"Well knowing that over 90% of men (...) have this addiction to masturbation..."
Where are these statistics coming from?You understand, please, that I cannot engage in sound discourse with people who make up statistics as they go along. And I also, then, have a difficult time in following whatever you say.
"however not all people come addicited from it"
I will use your *I know* method here. YOU do not know this. For women, yes you are absolutly right, but for men, you are almost dead wrong.
I don't know what you are talking about.
I guess this would depend on your intentions, motives, and desire of your heart.
Not according to you! You have spent several posts preaching that
EVERY fleshly desire is addictive [alcohol, sugar are real live addictions for a number of people yet you call the latter an "irrational" point.]
But by definition of *
fleshly desire* it can have nothing at all to do with the "heart's desire".
Do you even know what a fleshly desire is? It's an *of this world [ie, flesh] pleasure. A massage is that. Lotion on the legs is that. And these are two examples I gave that you have just recommended one looks at with their intentions, motives and heart desire. Masturbation is that also - It's a "feel good" act - a release....Like a massage.
With your newly directioned logic, couldn't people then just examine their intentions, motives, and desires of their heart and apply it to masturbation?
Just like people who are full on alcoholic, or sugar addicts, people who seek massage, people who lotion their legs and yes even people who engage in *self love* are just trying to get their *fleshly desires* fulfilled.
Again, if YOU are the one who has a problem with it then I absolutely suggest you not engage in it. It's all about the pleasure/pain principle my friend, and when your pleasure in something turns to pain there's the problem. For were we to *temperance movement* all activities and substances which give us *fleshly pleasure* we'd all renounce our lives and become ascetics.
If you are an ascetic - which you are not - as you have internet access or at least engage in it and that's absolutely a fleshly desire that's one thing. But since you are not, my only assessment of you would be that you are so fearful of your base natures that you really feel fragile. And as a result, you seem to have a distorted perception of the world. [Making up statistics, reactionary, fearful disguised thinly as anger, ego-righteousness (a la hatred of *the act* - 180* from the wanton pleasure you used to engage), attempting to deny the ego's stronghold over you...etc.]
Hate nothing? I am assuming that you know we are to hate evil... Including acts of violence, sexual harrasment, and the sources from where it comes from. Ultimatly, it is from the person themselves and the choices they make, but how can we help that?
If I hate something I have an attachment to it. Attachment is the source of suffering. Hate is the polar opposite to love. If I love something [ie, alcohol, sugar or in YOUR case the M-word] that means God's not in my life. If I hate something [ie, alcohol, sugar] it means God's not in my life. It's about the Middle Path.
Whoa. I just read your clause: "...and the sources from where it comes from." Isn't that an unorthodox *Christian* thing to say? I'm sorry...I don't know if you're Christian or not but what about the popular, "Hate the sin love the sinner concept?" You refute that? Because the source of where *evil* comes from ... wouldn't that be people? So you're saying hate the sin and hate the sinner?
Wow. You're certainly not trying to convert anyone are you?
This question scares me.... seriously. You really must have a very ignorant view point on mens sexuallity. Why not just stay at home? Because they want the real thing. Every person desires for a fantasy to become reallity, whether it is possible or not.
No. It's called mirroring the absurd which are your statements. As these websites I cited attest:
Why Men Rape
http://www.cosatu.org.za/shop/shop0901/shop0901-08.html
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"
This man and his friends are using rape to punish women who do not behave in ways members of Sara consider acceptable in women."
Why Does A Man Rape? http://www.pbs.org/kued/nosafeplace/studyg/men.html
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"Since the 1970s when Susan Brown-Miller published her ground-breaking book, Against Our Will, rape has been viewed as a crime of control and violence, not as a sexual crime. Psychologists who work with sex offenders see several kinds of offenders, including those for whom rape is a desire to dominate or control, those for whom it is an extension of anger, and those who seem to have been motivated by sex. Psychologists who work with rapists say many men view forcing sex with a woman as a validation of their manhood."
Male Rape Information Sheet http://www.rapecrisiscenter.com/Male%20Rape%20Info%20Sheet.html
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"No matter what was said or done or worn, no one "asks for" or deserves to be assaulted. Sexual assault has nothing to do with someone's present or future sexual orientation. Sexual assault is a crime of violence and power, not of lust or passion."
Masturbation has zero to do with rape. If you feel, however, so strongly that you make statistics up and go round and round trying to prove this ridiculous theory...perhaps your problem is not just one of masturbation...? I'm certainly not trying to imply you have deeper issues but maybe this is where your confusion lies. Perhaps if you do have this *other issue* it's become so intertwined with masturbation that you cannot differentiate the truth from the false.
Your statement "Every person desires for a fantasy to become reallity, whether it is possible or not" also gives me additional pause because this is absolutely not true. This means another made up assumption on your behalf. We do judge others to the extent we judge ourselves and now I'm having a clearer picture of where you're coming from.
"[ie...ego's need for control of "the situation" like how I see many people hitting the Bible over other peoples' head begins with the ego's survival instinct to *be right*.] "
First off, I used very little scripture, if any at all. I used more basic morals facts more so than anything. Your statement here is a controdicition in itself.
It's not contradictory. It's an observation. There is no such thing as an observation being a contradiction, but since you bring up contradictions let's discuss one...
Your statement "moral facts" *is* a contradiction because by definition of moral, it can vary from person to person and therefore is not fact. If we all had the same *morality* we wouldn't need laws, statutes, scripture..or even God for that matter. Don't get me started on ethics little man.
If you think this to be untrue, hold a poll or start a thread on how many people think masturbation is wrong and see how different opinions emerge. Oh wait. That's what's happening now!
Ergo...the term "moral facts" is a contradiction.
Secondly, if a man had no sexual desire, most men will not rape women. The only thing that causes a man (or women) to rape another is because of that dominance you talked about with your links, but it first needs a source: SEXUALLITY.
...and if people didn't have mouths no one could curse. [...?...]
Not to mention that the point of what I was talking about is that nearly every rapists is addicited to masturbation and pornography.
Your source...aside from your own life experiences? While I have no particular reason to believe this particular statement of yours UNTRUE, we would then have to delve into causal relationships and I have no interest in doing that at this time.
This issue, in a nutshell, is based on every person's own particular whatever. [Not even so sure it's about morality, but a preference.] No amount of fact or [in your case?] fictional statistics, research, scripture, links, rational argument will change it. People will try to dissuade others of their beliefs or else try to get the other person to see how baseless
their beliefs are. But since it all comes down to personal choice [ie, yes, beliefs]...emotional tizzies do nothing but excerbate the lowly condition of the ones seemingly most impassioned on the subject.
Samsara
