Masturbation as a Sin (A Different Approach)

[Tetra]

It would be sharing a totally self serving activity with a partner...But still, only accomplishing serving a fleshly desire for your own gain, as your partner gains nothing by your activity or vice versa....Again, this is merely my opinion, and in no way is my reply anything other than my personal opinion....

I'm trying to be careful in the use of my words, but no, some people enjoy seeing their spouse masturbating. It's part of the reason why people do it, because both parties enjoy the act together. Thank you for prefacing that it was only your own opinion, I understand. As I stated in the OP, if people are convicted of things like this, please do not do them, stick to your convictions.

 

[Tetra]

And sex with self is still sex thus still fornication and forbidden.

This isn't technically true based on the etymology of the word "fornication":
https://www.etymonline.com/word/fornication

Also, the entire context of this thread is about masturbation within marriage. How do you fornicate within a marriage??

 

[Invalidusername]

This isn't technically true based on the etymology of the word "fornication":
https://www.etymonline.com/word/fornication

Also, the entire context of this thread is about masturbation within marriage. How do you fornicate within a marriage??

God doesn't care about English definitions of words. Masturbating isn't ok inside or outside of marriage.

 

[Tetra]

God doesn't care about English definitions of words.

You must know God better than me cause I've never read that one in the Bible.

Masturbating isn't ok inside or outside of marriage.

Chapter and verse?

 

[Invalidusername]

You must know God better than me cause I've never read that one in the Bible.


Chapter and verse?

You can believe what you want.

 

[TuxAme]

So thought's I have while married are outside of marriage?? What in the world.

Masturbation is a sexual expression that falls outside of the realm of marriage, and is therefore sinful, as all sexual acts outside of marriage are.

 

[Tetra]

You can believe what you want.

I believe God's word... so no Bible verse then?

 

[Tetelestai Paid in Full]

Think of it in another way for a moment...
If you and your spouse are playing solitaire right next to each other, but on your own laptops, are you are your spouse gaining anything from just being next too each other...?
No...
Your focused on your game and your spouse is focused on theirs, and neither of you gain anything from this experience...
Another analogy...
Your reading the same exact book, or totally different books, either way....You do this activity right next to each other, are you gaining anything or learning anything about your spouse or vice versa here...?
No...
Your doing something for your own gain, and vice versa, neither of you are brought any closer with this, and the intent of joining together in sex, is too make you "ONE"....this activity, DIVIDES you, and only serves to satisfy your own fleshly desire....AGAIN, just my humble opinion.....

 

[Tetra]

Masturbation is a sexual expression that falls outside of the realm of marriage

Why?? I'm not trying to be difficult here, I've never heard this before though.

 

[Tetra]

Think of it in another way for a moment...
If you and your spouse are playing solitaire right next to each other, but on your own laptops, are you are your spouse gaining anything from just being next too each other...?
No...
Your focused on your game and your spouse is focused on theirs, and neither of you gain anything from this experience...
Another analogy...
Your reading the same exact book, or totally different books, either way....You do this activity right next to each other, are you gaining anything or learning anything about your spouse or vice versa here...?
No...
Your doing something for your own gain, and vice versa, neither of you are brought any closer with this, and the intent of joining together in sex, is too make you "ONE"....this activity, DIVIDES you, and only serves to satisfy your own fleshly desire....AGAIN, just my humble opinion.....

No, this isn't analogous.

This doesn't even make sense, you can actually touch yourself while having intercourse with your spouse. I can think of numerous ways where touching yourself also involves one's partner.

Also, you keep saying "fleshly" desires. What does that mean??

 

[Tetelestai Paid in Full]

In no way is this reply any attempt to be offensive or combative....
Are you seeking an honest answer to your question...?
Or are you only seeking answers that would seem too agree with the opinion that this activity should not be considered sinful...?
What are you looking too gain here, honesty, or people too say this is not sinful...?
Just a thought, and something that you might take a moment too consider.....

 

[Tetra]

In no way is this reply any attempt to be offensive or combative....
Are you seeking an honest answer to your question...?
Or are you only seeking answers that would seem too agree with the opinion that this activity should not be considered sinful...?
What are you looking too gain here, honesty, or people too say this is not sinful...?
Just a thought, and something that you might take a moment too consider.....

You're not going to offend me.

A very fair question, I really enjoy abstract thought experiments and hearing peoples opinions. Some people on the forum perceive me to be trolling or sometimes rude and honestly, it's not my intent. It's just my personality. When people say, this is the way it is... my knee jerk reaction is to ask why, and think about it. If you look at every thread I've made, it's always been a challenge to a convention or social norm within evangelical western Christendom. I don't know what stock you place in Myers Briggs, but I've done countless tests and my personality always comes out INTP:

"...it’s not that they are dishonest, but people with the INTP personality type tend to share thoughts that are not fully developed, using others as a sounding board for ideas and theories in a debate against themselves rather than as actual conversation partners."
https://www.16personalities.com/intp-personality

I knew when starting this thread like my other threads that there isn't a clear answer, but my personality enjoys the dialogue and thinking things through about it. Some here may think we are going nowhere, but I have actually taken a lot away already, and it has made me think a bit differently on some things. I'm not trying to "gain" anything per se, just a good logical conversation about a hard topic.

Maybe this will tell you something about me, I dunno,

Tetra.

 

[Johnny4ChristJesus]

The problem with masturbation is that it is result of lust, which is a sin although not unpardonable. For some reason we feel that sin is a necessity, but Jesus never gave way to it as a number of others mentioned in the Bible. Like any other vice or addiction, we need to pray to the Lord to help us deal with it, and He will if we do it with a sincere heart.

How do you know for a fact that masturbation is the result of lust in every case?

 

[2tim_215]

When you really love someone, it should be about the person, not about having sex. I don't know but by everything I read in the Bible it seems to be the case.

 

[dreadnought]

Just so we're clear I'll state my position. My position is that the Bible doesn't definitively state one way or the other that masturbation is a sin. However, if someone is personally convicted about it, stick to your own convictions.

I do have a different take on this topic though that isn't often considered. Many seem to presuppose a very specific and narrow definition of masturbation and / or, it's situational context. They typically imagine single men or women in this situation.

What bothers me is that this is a very narrow view of the topic.

For example, is it a sin to touch:

• When thinking about your spouse?
• To mutually touch?
• When thinking about your spouse who may have long passed away, or left you?
• To look at images of your spouse, or a video that you may have made together with your spouse? (this technically meets the criteria of being pornography by it's current definition)

What do you think CF, what is your opinion?

Cheers,
Tetra

We're not supposed to look lustfully at people (Matt 5:28).

 

[Tetra]

We're not supposed to look lustfully at people (Matt 5:28).

What does "lustfully" mean? Does that also include your spouse?

 

[dreadnought]

What does "lustfully" mean? Does that also include your spouse?

Everyone knows what sexual lust is. A man and wife are of one flesh - how people look lustfully on themselves?

 

[Tetra]

Everyone knows what sexual lust is. A man and wife are of one flesh - how people look lustfully on themselves?

Based on this logic every time I have sex with my wife, I'm actually masturbating. Does this mean I impregnated myself?!?!? So many questions on this one.

 

[dms1972]

No, your desire isn't for yourself!!! I mean, I like myself but not that much.

I apologise for my poor choice of words. You're right. It is possible someone has a yearning for their spouse when they are absent, but in regards to pleasure one is focused more on one's own pleasure in masturbation. Fantasy is a dissociative state, though we all fleetingly slip into and out of fantasy states, it can if indulged in become compulsive. A fantasy spouse, even if based on a real spouse always acts according to our wishes, unlike a real spouse. Fantasy life whatever the content needs self-control. For instance while writing this post and thinking on the issue I deliberately became more present to the real world and noticed that because my mind had been drifting into and out of minor fantasy I had still been in a slightly dissociative state, I felt the difference in my consciousness and the shift in attention to what I was typing.

 

[dreadnought]

Based on this logic every time I have sex with my wife, I'm actually masturbating. Does this mean I impregnated myself?!?!? So many questions on this one.

No you are not.