Martin Luther's "editing"

[Greeter]

Originally posted by VOW
To Greeter:

I AM a Christian!

I did NOT say the entire Bible is a collection of myths.

I said SOME of the stories in the Old Testament are myths. I get hosed regularly by the literalists when I bring up the subject, but a serious student of the Bible understands that there are MANY literary styles included within the covers of the Holy Bible.

If you have ever done a study of the Old Testament, you'll find that there are MANY versions written at different times, and then later on "editors" came upon the scene and combined the different versions, and then "editors" later still did more polishing. When you read about "God" in some books, that was one set of stories. When you read about "Lord" in some books, that was a second set of stories. When you read "Lord God" that is the work of an editor.

Understanding the Bible and how it came to be certainly doesn't detract from the wisdom, the teaching, and the MESSAGE contained within. If anything, you obtain a deeper appreciation for God's Word.


Peace be with you,
~VOW

I am well aware you are a Christian but you don't seem to fit the tenets of the faith as expressed in "Welcome! This forum is for CHRISTIANS only!"

The Catholics numerous statements of Martin Luther editing the Bible appears as a "dig" against Protestants who believe the Bible to be true and the infallible Word of God. If that isn't the Catholics purpose of that statement then what is the purpose?

As for posting in the Catholics forum there is a string titled "All Non-CATHOLICS Wishing To Post Here - Please Read This First", that gives me a pretty good impression as to what a Protestant can do there. Maybe it would be a good idea for Catholics to read it and just change all the "Catholic" entries to "Protestant" and apply it to this forum.

Admittedly I have only read the Old Testament a few times but friends who have graduated from Bible College, as well as our Pastors, believe the same as I do in that the Bible is true and the infallible Word of God. They have studied it in great detail and yet their beliefs haven't changed.

As for the editors, we believe all who have worked on the Bible have been guided by the Holy Spirit to maintain its purity.

As for being carded at the door don't you think reading the first thread is a good idea?

In relation to another post of yours, you do add to the ChristianForums, but here it seems like you are trying to break down those who believe differently.

If this is not your intention then what is it? And would a Protestant be able to do the same thing within the Catholics "One Bread, One Body - Discussion on Catholic Beliefs" forum?

 

[Greeter]

Originally posted by KC Catholic
This forum is open to anyone who is Christian or Jewish.

The purpose behind the Non-Denominational/Reformed/Protestant Discussion was so that those groups could discuss issues within their own groups as well as those outside the group.

The Catholic "One Bread" forum is visited by Protestants (which is fine!) so the Catholics here feel comfortable visiting these threads as well.

As long as things remain civil - people should be allowed to post pretty much anywhere unless denoted.

Understood.

 

[VOW]

To Greeter:

I figured I had something to offer when it came to knowing about Martin Luther and his "editing".... and I read everything that GEL wrote, including the part about REJECTING the Deuterocanonicals because they were myths. Well, by definition, other parts of the Bible are myths, too. That does NOT mean they are not the infallible, inspired Word of God. Those two terms are not mutually exclusive of one another. I can accept Tobit as being a myth just as much as I can accept Noah as being a myth, and STILL feel inspired by the message that God is portraying in both stories.

The sources of the Old Testament books as well as the editors are most certainly inspired and directed by God, filled with the Holy Spirit and given the strength and the wisdom to do the jobs they had to do. You have absolutely no argument from me on that at all. If anything, my study of the Bible as Literature gave me a profound appreciation for the Jewish heritage of Christianity, LONG before I became a Catholic. The PERSERVERANCE of the Jews in spite of all hardship throughout the eons is beyond remarkable. They have SURVIVED when much greater civilzations have passed away into dust. It would take a head (AND a heart) much harder than mine could ever be to see that documented in the Bible and completely deny the intervention of God!

I believe, with all the fiber of my being, all the energy in my soul, that the Jews are indeed God's Chosen People. And I believe that Christianity is the fulfillment of God's Promise to the Jews, and that we as Christians are Jews by adoption through the belief and acceptance of the death and resurrection of Jesus. The Bible is most certainly the inspired Word of God, and it is an incredible MIRACLE of literature; first, that it has SURVIVED with such lack of contamination throughout the ages, and second, it contains every single story applicable to mankind from the beginning of time to the end of this world.

And calling SOME of the literary styles in the Bible "myths" does not take away one iota of that belief.

Further, if everyone, Catholic, Protestant, Jew, non-denominational, Reformed, whatever, would READ and appreciate the Deuterocanonical books, I personally believe that we'd all learn and appreciate more of what God is trying to teach us. The Book of Wisdom is wonderful, and just as inspiring as Proverbs. The love story in Tobit is heart-touching.

ANYTHING that increases your faith, and your understanding of God's love for all of mankind can ONLY be good.


Peace be with you,
~VOW

 

[Greeter]

Vow,

Thank You for clearing up where you stand on the issue.

It is easier to accept anothers views if you don't think they are out to cause your religion harm. Until now, I wasn't sure.

Please forgive me for doubting your intentions,

Greeter

 

[VOW]

To Greeter:

Many thanks for your understanding, and apology accepted.

And......read the Deuteros for yourself, especially the love story in Tobit. There's one passage in Tobit I'm going to recommend to my daughter to use at her wedding.


Peace be with you,
~VOW

 

[jukesk9]

Well GEL,

I was just doing my poor Yoda impersonation. I was just kinda playin' around and jokin'.

"Be you angels? And we said, 'Nay' we are but men. ROCK!"

 

[GreenEyedLady]

"The "One Bread, One Body" Forum [GLOW=crimson]is NOT a debate forum. [/GLOW] We do not debate Catholic beliefs, its not a place for NON-Catholics OR anti-Catholics to spout their rhetoric. "


Can the protestant forum be a NON debate forum also?!!??!?!
That would be fair!
Just a suggestion!
GEL

 

[Greeter]

Admittedly that was the post that had me so confused.

Apparently he changed his mind about it at some later date as shown by his post above.

 

[WayneH]

aweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee GEL - your no fun sweetie... if we close threads to DEBATE - then all we get is a bunch uof mushy Christians showing love t one another and even ( Heaven forbid ) agreeing..........

your adorable as your kids when your confused...

Greeter.. Me personally - I could never look at the Bible as a literary piece of work - to Me it is the infallible Word of God.. to look at it otherwise is saying its not - to say stories are made up to sound so pretty is turning it into a BOOK... just a book.. which to me makes me

 

[KC Catholic]

Originally posted by Greeter
Admittedly that was the post that had me so confused.

Apparently he changed his mind about it at some later date as shown by his post above.

No, nothing has changed.

Greeter, GEL - can you name me one time that Catholics have come into this forum and started a brawl?

How many threads have been opened by Catholics slamming Protestant beliefs?

How many times have we interrupted a thread with an arguement.

Care to venture a guess?

Zero...I cannot think of one instance where we have treated Protestants like we have been treat by them. Ever.

Also, at no time did I state that Protestants could not post in "One Bread" or share their POV.

But there is a difference between sharing your beliefs and sharing your knowledge about someone elses beliefs - i.e. telling them their beliefs are wrong.

The Catholics here spend the majority of their time correcting the mistaken understand of our beliefs - we do not take the time to pick apart the Protestant faith.

You are welcome to ask a question in "One Bread" just dont expect your get an answer that squares with your personal beliefs.

Thanks

 

[WayneH]

Well KC ole Bud.... you would be wrong if you say zero..... and not to dredge up pasts or start any brawls - lets suffice it to say it HAS HAPPENED.... to the point someone even ( a catholic ) mentioned - how does it feel etc etc etc.......... but it doesn't mean people can't give thier opinion and leave it go at that...

ta ta - have a wonderful day......

 

[KC Catholic]

Well, Wayne you may be right, but it is a far less number that you might think in comparrison to what Catholics are put through.

 

[Greeter]

Originally posted by WayneH

Greeter.. Me personally - I could never look at the Bible as a literary piece of work - to Me it is the infallible Word of God.. to look at it otherwise is saying its not - to say stories are made up to sound so pretty is turning it into a BOOK... just a book.. which to me makes me

Well, I thought I made my stand on this point very clear but to say it again, I believe the Bible to be the true and infallible Word of God.

I am not sure where you suddenly get the misconception that my beliefs have changed on this point. The thing that did change was where I thought others were coming from.

I hope this clears that up

 

[WayneH]

KC........ I won't go there....


Greeter.... I wasn't implying your views changed - I was agreeing with your point of the subject and stating how I feel about the Bible being a literary piece of work and not literal...... in other words - some people say its a collection of stories blah blah blah.... thgats why I sid what I did - not to counter your beliefs but to support..

 

[Greeter]

Originally posted by WayneH
KC........ I won't go there....


Greeter.... I wasn't implying your views changed - I was agreeing with your point of the subject and stating how I feel about the Bible being a literary piece of work and not literal...... in other words - some people say its a collection of stories blah blah blah.... thgats why I sid what I did - not to counter your beliefs but to support..

Sorry, I think I need to start IMing people to find out where they are coming from

but first . . .

 

[GreenEyedLady]

Its all good....
I have seen more than my share of BOTH protestants and Catholics bashing each other.
Boy are we ALL gonna get spanked when we get to heaven!

GEL

 

[Greeter]

*sigh*

Originally posted by KC Catholic


No, nothing has changed.

Greeter, GEL - can you name me one time that Catholics have come into this forum and started a brawl?

How many threads have been opened by Catholics slamming Protestant beliefs?

Uh, as mentioned previously I am new here so I don't know.

How many times have we interrupted a thread with an arguement.

I don't know but it appears you are doing so right now.

Care to venture a guess?

Zero...I cannot think of one instance where we have treated Protestants like we have been treat by them. Ever.

What about this post of yours?

It appears you are saying "Catholics Good" and "Protestants Bad". Are you telling me that Catholics don't make mistakes?!? Or is every Catholic on these boards perfect?!?

As long as there are human beings within any organization mistakes will be made. The recent crisis of the Catholic Church is a great example. People are surprised that "Priests" could commit some of the horrible acts they have. Priests are human beings and are subject to the same flaws everyone else is. As our Pastors often point out, once you get involved with any Ministry, you will have a bullseye put on you by the devil, and its size will be proportional to your contribution to the Church.

Also, at no time did I state that Protestants could not post in "One Bread" or share their POV.

No, there is just the appearance of that.

But there is a difference between sharing your beliefs and sharing your knowledge about someone elses beliefs - i.e. telling them their beliefs are wrong.

Agreed.

The Catholics here spend the majority of their time correcting the mistaken understand of our beliefs - we do not take the time to pick apart the Protestant faith.

But many keep posting this "Luther edited the Bible" idea as if a "dig" against Protestants.

You are welcome to ask a question in "One Bread" just dont expect your get an answer that squares with your personal beliefs.

Thanks

Thank You.

Something to consider is how you are portraying yourself.

I am sorry that you feel abused by Protestants and have had rough things happen to you. It appears you are now lashing out at all Protestants, as if you have a chip on your shoulder. Not all Protestants are out to get Catholics.

Note- I use words related to appearance. A saying from a large company I once worked for in dealing with customer relations "Appearance is Reality". Obviously this relates to both sides.

On behalf of the many Protestants that don't hold anything against the Catholic Church (and are saddened by what it is now going through), We are sorry for those who have taken advantage of the situation to now jump on Catholics. One percent of the priests, who need a millstone, are making things difficult for the other 99 percent who do a great job and serve the Lord faithfully.

 

[GreenEyedLady]

Greeter..you are the BOMB!!!
So glad your here!
Please stay!

GEL

 

[VOW]

To Greeter:

On behalf of all the Catholics who are members here at Christian Forums, let me apologize to you for any harassment you may have felt.

However, I would like you to understand that since I've been posting here, I've had my intelligence, my eyesight, my ability to read, my sanity, and my salvation all challenged, simply because I am Catholic. The "One Bread, One Body" discussion was created long before the "Protestant, et al" discussion, because we Catholics needed a place of respite, where we could lick our wounds and commiserate. We have been beaten bloody by the Sola Scriptura folks, and yes, we do get a little huffy towards Martin Luther, because Sola Scriptura is HIS BABY.

I've seen new members march right in and say, "Hey, why CAN'T we tell Catholics that they're wrong?"

And to be very, very honest, I've NEVER SEEN anywhere here on this forum where someone has started a new thread stating, "Hey, you Baptists! Your belief in total immersion for Baptism is wrong, anti-Scriptural, and your very salvation and eternity is threatened by what you believe."

Something to think about.


Peace be with you,
~VOW

 

[GreenEyedLady]