Martin Luther's "editing"

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Greeter

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Greetings All,

I have noticed in other strings people refering to Martin Luther as editing the Bible.

Is this something that really happened? How does it affect the Bible today? Was it something that was corrected? Is the Christian Bible different from that of a Catholic Bible?

Any information would be greatly appreciated.

Thank You,
Greeter
 

ZoneChaos

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Originally posted by Greeter
Greetings All,

I have noticed in other strings people refering to Martin Luther as editing the Bible.

Is this something that really happened? How does it affect the Bible today? Was it something that was corrected? Is the Christian Bible different from that of a Catholic Bible?

Any information would be greatly appreciated.

Thank You,
Greeter

The original Bible of the Catholic church was set at 66 books, but Pope Leo added seven additional books.

Two of the books that were added were the Book of the Macabees. In the book of the Macabees, Jewish soldiers go into battle with a idol inside their vest and when they came home from the battle they were asked to purify themselves before they reentered Jewish worship because they were defiled by the idol.

Thus, based primarily on the added text found in Macabees, the Catholic Church established their doctrine of Purgatory on the fact that the sins of believers had to be purified before they could enter the Kingdom of God. It was the selling of religion to build St. Peter’s Basilica in Rome that cleaned the pockets of the poor and defeated the idea of faith.

In part to the above, as well as other things "wrong" with the thology of the "Church" pof the day, Martin Luther responded to this with his 95 thesis.

Included, Luther said, "Man is justified by faith only and not by the man made works of man." Luther felt that Scripture had been perverted in what he saw in Rome. The selling of a Bishops position for power was also in practice.

It would not be until 1648 that the Bible would once again go back to being 66 books. King James of England established a study by the great minds of England to re-edit the Bible to reflect only upon the salvation of Jesus Christ.

The Book of Seract, two books of the Macbees, The Book of Truth were all removed. The final edition of the King James Bible was finished in 1648.
 
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Wolseley

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Luther removed seven books from the Old Testament (Judith, Baruch, Sirach, Wisdom, Tobit, 1 & 2 Maccabees), and parts of Esther and Daniel.

He also seriously considered removing James, 2 Peter, Jude, Hebrews, and Revelation.

He also added the word "alone" to Romans 3:28, thus rendering "by faith" to "by faith alone".

All of these alterations appeared in his 1534 German translation of the Bible.
 
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Reformationist

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Originally posted by Wolseley
He also seriously considered removing James, 2 Peter, Jude, Hebrews, and Revelation.

I'm regularly amazed when people are quoted as saying someone "seriously considered" something. Pray tell, do you have proof of this? How in the world would anyone have proof that someone considered something, serious or otherwise.

God bless.
 
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niwde

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if it is proven to be true
how could martin luther do that
how can he change the writings in the bible
it is written by the apostles
how could he possibly do that
talking about removing books from the bible is completely wrong
how could this martin luther author the books according to his whims and fancies
this is wrong
 
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MatthewDiscipleofGod

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Unless we have sources for something like this spreading rumors certainly isn't something a Christian should be doing. I was raised Lutheran. Nondenominal now, and never heard of Luther thinking of removing all those books from the bible. I know he did things like take the 10 Commandments and try to modernize them and explain them out more to others.
 
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VOW

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Originally posted by ZoneChaos
The original Bible of the Catholic church was set at 66 books, but Pope Leo added seven additional books.

Check your history, Zone.

The "additional" books were mentioned back in St Augustine's time! It is innacurate history that books were "added" to the Bible when Martin Luther was having his argument with the Catholic Church.


Peace be with you,
~VOW
 
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VOW

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For those of you interested in reading St Augustine, here is the following link:
http://www.ccel.org/fathers2/NPNF1-02/npnf1-02-05.htm#P143_33888

To Project 86:

You may have been raised Lutheran, but you need to do a thorough study of the history of Martin Luther. He did indeed remove those books from the Old Testament, and he WANTED to remove several from the New Testament. Do a forum search. I actually started a thread on Martin Luther and quoted extensively from his own words.



Peace be with you,
~VOW
 
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GreenEyedLady

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Here is the truth...Was it ONLY martin Luthers WORD that made the aprocrypha NOT biblical...NOWAY!!! That is a complete lie and fabracation and it doesn't make sense anyway! How could ONE MANS word stand "above" the entire jewish/christian historical backround?
In reality, the Apocryphal Books were never excluded from the Old Testament Canon of Scripture because they were never a part of the Canon. The Jews, who were God's chosen to keep the Old Testament Scriptures, never accepted any of the Apocryphal Books as Scriptural. When I say never I mean they disregarded them from the beginning of the collection of the Scriptures up until today. This exclusion weighed heavily against the Church accepting the Apocrypha as Scriptural. Other than the obvious defects (which we mentioned above) the Jews rejected the Apocrypha because none of the works were written by Prophets. All of the Old Testament Canon, with a few exceptions, was written by people who either had the Gift or Office of Prophet. Of the few that did not fit this category, like Esther, the book contained enough historical and Scriptural accuracy for the Jews to determine it to be Canonical. The Apocrypha contains numerous historical, geographical, and chronological errors, so many that God's Chosen rejected the books outright. In addition to this, unlike most Canonized Works (Deuteronomy 31.24-26; Nehemiah 8.1-8; Joshua 1.8; Judges 3.4; Daniel 12.2; 9.2; Jeremiah 36; 2 King 22-23; Nehemiah 8.5), the Apocrypha never claimed to be the Inspired Word of God. They were merely "recountings", never claiming Divine Inspiration for themselves.
 
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GreenEyedLady

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One more thing...
The Jewish Old Testament was originally bound in a scroll of 24 books, and the Apocrypha was never bound with these books. The Jews divided the Bible as:


The Law (Torah) - 5 Books - Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy
The Prophets (Nebhiim) - 8 Books
The former prophets - Joshua, Judges, Samuel, Kings
The latter prophets - Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, the Twelve
The Writings (Kethubhim) - 11 Books
Poetical books - Psalms, Job, Proverbs
Five rolls (Megilloth) - Ruth, Song of Songs, Ecclesiastes, Lamentations, Esther
Historical books - Daniel, Ezra-Nehemiah, Chronicles
The Apocrypha was never counted among this Holy Division. Josephus, the ancient Jewish historian, combined Ruth-Judges and Lamentation-Jeremiah for a total of 22 books, rather than the traditional 24. He writes:
"For we have not an innumerable multitude of books among us, ... only 22 books. which contain the records of all the past times; which are justly believed to be Divine;...It is true, our history hath been written since Artaxerxes very particularly, but hath not been esteemed of the like authority with the former by our forefathers;...and how firmly we have given credit to these books of our own nation is evident by what we do; for during so many ages as have already passed, no one has been so bold as either to add anything to them, or to make any change in them." (Flavius Josephus Against Apion Book 1, Section 8).


No what was that again?? Who started the so called editing. Read your history guys...not the biased websites that lack information!
I think EVERY single christian can benfit from learning the Jewish history...it is essential..especially in matters like these!
GEL
 
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VOW

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To All:

Check the HISTORY of the Deuterocanonicals!

The Jews "removed" them from the official books as a political ploy. The books were never "bound," they were in scrolls. The argument that the books were only in Greek and not in Hebrew has been refuted by recent discoveries of Hebrew originals.

It takes quite a bit of effort to dig up the true history, but it's worth it!



Peace be with you,
~VOW
 
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GreenEyedLady

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One more thing...to add what i said above..
Artaxerxes and Malachi both lived about four centuries before Christ, while the books of the Apocrypha were composed in the vicinity of two centuries before Christ. Josephus expressed the common belief of the Jews that no Scripture was written after the time of Artaxerxes. The Jewish Talmus also teaches that the Spirit of God departed from Israel insofar as Scriptural Writing is concerned after the time of Malachi. Philo, the Alexandrian Jewish philosopher (20 B.C .- A.D. 40), quoted the Old Testament frequently, recognizing the Jewish threefold division, but never quoted from the Apocrypha as inspired. The Jewish scholars of Jamnia (A.D. 70) did not even recognize the Apocrypha. So was the Apocrypha ever "removed" from the Canon? No, it was never in the Canon, as far as the keepers of the Old Testament were concerned.
Just go ahead as ask your friendly jewish neighbor what THEY think of the apocrypha! Ask them why!
GEL
 
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jukesk9

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The Apocrypha was written in (approx.) 300 BC. It was not written in Hebrew but rather in Greek because the authors were Hellenistic Jews. For six hundred years, the Apocrypha was accepted as Scripture by the Jews. In 385 AD, Pope Damascus canonized the Bible we Catholics have today (surprise...we even read it!).

Around 325 AD, the Emperor Constantine legalized Christianity (gasp...this is where the true Christians went underground for 1200 years because Constantine paganized the Church [hint of sarcasm here]). Christianity started to grow abundtly. It didn't grow significantly until after its legalization.

Around 400 AD, the Jews called a council, now known as the Council of Jamnia, to deal with this "threat" of Christianity. Since the Apocrypha was written in Greek and not Hebrew, the Jews condemned it in hopes of discrediting Christianity.

For 1200 years, the Apocrypha was accepted as Scripture until the Reformation. Why was it removed and how did the Reformers "know" it wasn't inspired? They looked to the Council of Jamnia and said (paraphrasing here) "Hey, if it ain't good enough for the Jews then it ain't good enough for us!" And so, the Reformers accepted the findings of a council that was called to combat Christianity. In the immortal words of Bugs Bunny, "Silly, ain't it?"
 
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GreenEyedLady

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Where did you get that commentray..let me guess ...a catholic source!
The Aprocrapha WAS NEVER concidered by the jews..it was never in the canon!
About the KJV...alot of people make the assumtion that the apocrapha being in the KJV1611 was concidered "inspired"
It wasnot place in scripture..it was in the back with a page saying that it was good history, but NOT inspired!
You know like the index..or any other commentary..
If you researched it juke, you would know that!
I just wanted to clear up the MAJOR misconceptions about Luther and about the apocrypha...History is not just in the Roman Catholic church.
Be merry and peace to all!
GEL
 
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GreenEyedLady

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Even though the overwhelming evidence pointed to the fact that the Apocrypha was not Canon, even though the Christian Church in it's first four centuries rejected these writings as spurious, if you "get enough committee votes, we can make it happen". Augustine (354-430 AD) pushed the Apocrypha as Scripture over the objections of Jerome, and the Roman Church included it in the Latin Vulgate. Once these writings were tacked into place next to the Holy Scriptures many people became to regard them as Scriptural by association. The Church had sporadic battles, often localized, about the Apocrypha, up until the time of the Reformation when the Protestants banded together in a concerted effort to reject these works. The Roman Catholic Church made it's views clear at the Council of Trent (1546) when it stated that all of the Latin Vulgate (to include the Apocrypha) was equally Canon. The doctrine was re-affirmed at the Vatican Council of 1870. Jerome probably rolled over in his grave!
The Wycliffite Bible (14th century) included the Apocrypha, but in it's preface made it clear that it accepted Jerome's judgement, not Augustine's. The Church of England (1562) explicitly denied the Apocrypha as Canon, though admitted that the books could be read for their "didactic worth" (Article IV). The King James Bible of 1611 put the Apocrypha between the Old and New Testaments, but omitted it from all versions from 1630 and on. The Westminister Confession of the Presbyterians decreed the Apocrypha to be no part of the Scripture. The British and Foreign Bible Society of 1827 resolved never to print or circulate Bibles that contained the Apocrypha.

So, is the Apocrypha Scriptural? Absolutely not. Can you read it? Certainly, be my guest. I've read through it, and found it very interesting. But Scriptural? No, no, a thousand times no! Read it yourself, then read the real Word of God. If you're in Christ you'll see the difference. God Bless you all!
 
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Greeter

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Hello Wolsely and Vow,

I am new to these boards and may have made a mistake where I put this thread. I was hoping to put it in an area to get more information from Non-Denominational, Reformed, or Protestant believers without having to deal with those who
don't fall into those categories and/or may be carrying a grudge and/or like to use this subject as a weapon against us.

I would like to get more information on this subject from those I am comfortable around, namely those with similar beliefs such as those mentioned in the "Welcome! This forum is for CHRISTIANS only!" thread.

Could you please be so kind as to direct me to the right area for this?

Thank You
 
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Greeter

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Originally posted by ZoneChaos


The original Bible of the Catholic church was set at 66 books, but Pope Leo added seven additional books.

Two of the books that were added were the Book of the Macabees. In the book of the Macabees, Jewish soldiers go into battle with a idol inside their vest and when they came home from the battle they were asked to purify themselves before they reentered Jewish worship because they were defiled by the idol.

Thus, based primarily on the added text found in Macabees, the Catholic Church established their doctrine of Purgatory on the fact that the sins of believers had to be purified before they could enter the Kingdom of God. It was the selling of religion to build St. Peter’s Basilica in Rome that cleaned the pockets of the poor and defeated the idea of faith.

In part to the above, as well as other things "wrong" with the thology of the "Church" pof the day, Martin Luther responded to this with his 95 thesis.

Included, Luther said, "Man is justified by faith only and not by the man made works of man." Luther felt that Scripture had been perverted in what he saw in Rome. The selling of a Bishops position for power was also in practice.

It would not be until 1648 that the Bible would once again go back to being 66 books. King James of England established a study by the great minds of England to re-edit the Bible to reflect only upon the salvation of Jesus Christ.

The Book of Seract, two books of the Macbees, The Book of Truth were all removed. The final edition of the King James Bible was finished in 1648.

Thank You for the information ZoneChaos.

Do you know of any good references for this topic? What reliable sources do we have for this?

Is the Catholic Bible of today identical to the Protestant Bible? And what is considered to be the official Catholic Bible?
 
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