Mark of the beast, Anti-Christ and False Prophet Discussion.

[iamlamad]

How come this keeps coming back to me? I am not responsible for your list. On my chart, I show the beginning of the 70th week.

You are the person who made your list. You are the person who wrote at the beginning of your list...

"Before the 70th week - the 70th week - and after the 70th week timeline as given by John:"

But you don't have the beginning of the 70th week in your list of events. Where is the confirmation of the covenant for seven years on your list?

And you say...."Until then, I have to go with what Jesus revealed to me: that the 70th week is marked - the beginning,"

So put that line item event on you list of events - in the appropriate place. The confirmation of the covenant for 7 years, and what that covenant is.

OK, I added the start of the 70th week to my list. Thanks for noticing that I missed it. Anything else I have missed? I could have put down Daniel 9:27, but that only says it will start, not WHEN it will start in John's narrative.

 

[iamlamad]

Go back to your post #262. Edit your post to put in a line item, in the appropriate place, to show the beginning of the 7 years, the confirming of the covenant.

You have all kind of events listed. But you don't have one of the most important, the confirming of the covenant for 7 years... to begin the seven years.

Done. Thanks for pointing that out.

 

[Douggg]

think you meant 13, not 3. And here all this time I have thought the beast of Chapter 13 is speaking of a MAN, born of a woman, and alive today SOMEWHERE on the earth.

Yes, I made a typo, it should have been "Genesis 3". The serpent. Thanks.

1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

The original serpent in the garden is who I think is the beast in the bottomless pit in Revelation 17:8a.

That beast was able to speak, and was talking and thinking like Satan. So I think the serpent cut a deal with Satan, to become ruler, but it was necessary to get Adam and Eve to fall.

 

[Douggg]

lamad, you have the beginning of the 70th week after the 7th seal in Revelation 8.

And you have the second half as the 1260 days and 42 monts of Revelation 11.

Between Revelation 8 and Revelation 11, where in text between them is the 1260 days first half?
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Which is what I have been saying - in your interpretations, you have no way of showing the 7 years 70th week in Revelation.

 

[iamlamad]

lamad, you have the beginning of the 70th week after the 7th seal in Revelation 8.

And you have the second half as the 1260 days and 42 monts of Revelation 11.

Between Revelation 8 and Revelation 11, where in text between them is the 1260 days first half?
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Which is what I have been saying - in your interpretations, you have no way of showing the 7 years 70th week in Revelation.

you have no way of showing the 7 years 70th week in Revelation.
Perhaps you have not been reading my posts that carefully: it is SO EASY: the 7's are "markers" (God's word, not mine) that mark out or dileneate the entire 70th week:
the 7th seal begins the week, the 7th trumpet marks the "exact midpoint" (God's word, not mine) and the 7th vial marks the end.
The first half then goes from chapter 8 to chapter 11. The last half goes from chapter 11 to chapter 16. It makes perfect sense as written with no need to rerarrange - or imagine something written in Rev. 11 is really happening in the time frame of Rev. 8.

I have EVERY mention of the 3 1/2 years as pointing the LAST HALF of the week. I have because God did: Jesus words to me: "Every time I mentioned an event that would go from the midpoint to the end of the week, I always included the 3 1/2 year period of time: when you find the mentions of the 3 1/2 years you will be very close to the exact midpoint."

In other words, if we read of the 1260 days - either passage - it is for an event that will start at the midpoint and count down to the end of the week.

In other words, if we read of the 42 months - either passage - it is for an event that will start at the midpoint and count down to the end of the week.

If we read of the time, times and half of time: same thing: for the last half of the week.

You can, of course, disagree with Jesus' words to me, but you are be in error in your thinking.

Between Revelation 8 and Revelation 11, where in text between them is the 1260 days first half? It is not written anywhere, but it will be 1260 days between the opening of the 7th seal (the official start of the 70th week) and the 7th trumpet. the truth is, God did not show us the first half in days, months or years. What He did show us are markers so we can find the first half, and then the second half in several different ways.

And you have the second half as the 1260 days and 42 montts of Revelation 11.
Yes, and also the 1260 days and the 3.5 years (times) of chapter 12 for the second half, plus the 42 months of chapter 13. But NONE of these "run out" in their chapter of mention: they will BEGIN the countdown in the chapter of mention, but then count down to chapter 16 where the 7th vial ends the week. The exception is the end of the 42 months of authority: that ends in chapter 19 when the Beast is caught.

Since God chose not to show us the first half clearly written in days or in months, that is why I suspect the confirming of the covenant will be done in secret. It is just my thinking. I am sure heaven will know when the week begins, because heaven will know when Jesus opens the final (7th) seal so that the BOOK can be opened.

 

[Douggg]

I have EVERY mention of the 3 1/2 years as pointing the LAST HALF of the week. I have because God did: Jesus words to me: "Every time I mentioned an event that would go from the midpoint to the end of the week, I always included the 3 1/2 year period of time: when you find the mentions of the 3 1/2 years you will be very close to the exact midpoint."

That what is called private interpretation in prophecy.

It is unverifiable. And it conflicts with the bible, because "3 1/2 years" is not a term found in the bible.

the 7th seal begins the week, the 7th trumpet marks the "exact midpoint" (God's word, not mine) and the 7th vial marks the end.

No, it is your words. You are not a prophet.

Since God chose not to show us the first half clearly written in days or in months, that is why I suspect the confirming of the covenant will be done in secret.

lamad, you need you change how you say (write) things.

Instead of what you wrote - which is wrong anyway - you should be writing - Since "it appears" God chose not to show.....

And stop with the private messages you say you are getting from Jesus. Keep that sort of thing to yourself.

 

[iamlamad]

That what is called private interpretation in prophecy.

It is unverifiable. And it conflicts with the bible, because "3 1/2 years" is not a term found in the bible.


No, it is your words. You are not a prophet.

lamad, you need you change how you say (write) things.

Instead of what you wrote - which is wrong anyway - you should be writing - Since "it appears" God chose not to show.....

And stop with the private messages you say you are getting from Jesus. Keep that sort of thing to yourself.

Why do you strain at a gnat and swallow a camel? You and I both know (I HOPE you know) the MEANING behind "time, times and half of time" Is three and one half years. Why argue over the way I write that time?
Sorry, but Jesus NEVER disagrees with the bible. He may disagree with you TAKE on the bible.

My only question is this: are you going to believe what Jesus spoke to me now, or later? One day you will - for you will know it is truth.

It is kind of silly: thinking Jesus could not or would not speak of a certain period of time the way I think of that period of time: as in three and one half years. He speaks to people in a way THEY understand. However, it is without question He was referring to the 1260 days, (twice) the 42 months, (twice) and the time, times and half of time - ALL of which are really a 3 1/2 year period of time or half the 7 years.

 

[Douggg]

Why argue over the way I write that time?
Sorry, but Jesus NEVER disagrees with the bible. He may disagree with you TAKE on the bible.

Because you are claiming Jesus said "3 1/2 years" in a personal talk to you. You should keep that sort of thing to yourself. You are making yourself an intermediator between Jesus and the rest of us.

 

[iamlamad]

Because you are claiming Jesus said "3 1/2 years" in a personal talk to you. You should keep that sort of thing to yourself. You are making yourself an intermediator between Jesus and the rest of us.

That is exactly what Paul did: He got revelation knowledge, and then preached it to the Gentiles, and ended up writing it in letters. We should welcome revelation knowledge, not knock it!

 

[Douggg]

That is exactly what Paul did: He got revelation knowledge, and then preached it to the Gentiles, and ended up writing it in letters. We should welcome revelation knowledge, not knock it!

Paul was struck blind in his encounter with Jesus and had to be led by the hand into Damascus and had to have miraculous healing to see again by Ananias - verifying his experience.

What you say is Jesus having a private talk with you about Revelation is not verifiable. Your word alone is not verification. Just keep it to yourself, because you are not a intermediator between Jesus and the rest of us.

 

[Douggg]

@iamlamad

Get a program like Paintshop Pro, and learn how to use, and make a decent in appearance timeline chart of your interpretation of Revelation, including where the 7 year 70th week begins.

That process of making a timeline chart, a decent appearing one, is when it should become obvious that the interpretations you are holding have flaws. Verbiage alone, expressed in long and many posts, is an inadequate means of communication and presentation of complex timelines.

There has to be visual representation as well.

 

[iamlamad]

Paul was struck blind in his encounter with Jesus and had to be led by the hand into Damascus and had to have miraculous healing to see again by Ananias - verifying his experience.

What you say is Jesus having a private talk with you about Revelation is not verifiable. Your word alone is not verification. Just keep it to yourself, because you are not a intermediator between Jesus and the rest of us.

What did the Bereans do when Paul taught them revealed knowledge? Did they complain and say you must teach only what is written? No, they did not do that. What they did was checked with the written word to confirm what Paul had said.

When Jesus said I could find first the midpoint clearly marked and then the entire 70th week clearly marked, did not argue with Him! (to argue against the Creator would be silly to the extreme.) I believed what He said and studied diligently to find what He sent me to find. It is OK that you don't agree. (One day you will.) What Jesus said makes far more sense naturally that what you say. What do I mean?

It would be silly for God to show and for John to write, of a 42 month period of time for the second half, and then in the next verse write of a 1260 day period of time that was meant for the first half. Writing like that would cause major confusion. The truth of this matter is, John is just days before the midpoint in 11:1 and by the time He gets to verse 15, he is AT the midpoint - and by the time he gets to 12:6 he is only seconds after the midpoint - and EVERYTHING in between is for that period of time. Any other theory is trying to rearrange John's God given chronology and will be proven wrong.

Galatians 1:
15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.
18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days.

Paul was SO SURE of His revelation that he waited three years to compare notes with Peter.

 

[Douggg]

It would be silly for God to show and for John to write, of a 42 month period of time for the second half, and then in the next verse write of a 1260 day period of time that was meant for the first half.

What is irrational is to think that the two adjoining verses would have different time expressions if they were both the second half of the 7 years.

And to have the 1260 days in Revelation 11:3 not to be the same 1260 days in Revelation 12:6 that precede the war in the second heaven time and then Satan cast down to earth having a time, times, half times left.

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The problem is with your understanding. Not with what John wrote or was told.

The two witnesses will be testifying while the Jews are within the temple worshiping and sacrificing animals. At the same time, the gentiles will be in the outer court worshiping God as well.

The Jews (Judaism) associated with the organization called the temple mount faithful goal is.....

In their list of long term objectives is....
"Rebuilding the Third Temple in accordance with the words of all the Hebrew prophets (Ezekiel 40-44). This temple will be a house of prayer for the people of Israel and all the nations (Isaiah 56:7)."

That's the gentiles praying in the outer court during the false messianic age when Israel will be thinking that the Antichrist is the messiah.
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The muslims are going to be removed at the time of Gog/Magog. Which Gog/Magog is followed by the 7 years of Daniel 9:27.

 

[iamlamad]

 

[iamlamad]

What is irrational is to think that the two adjoining verses would have different time expressions if they were both the second half of the 7 years.

And to have the 1260 days in Revelation 11:3 not to be the same 1260 days in Revelation 12:6 that precede the war in the second heaven time and then Satan cast down to earth having a time, times, half times left.

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The problem is with your understanding. Not with what John wrote or was told.

The two witnesses will be testifying while the Jews are within the temple worshiping and sacrificing animals. At the same time, the gentiles will be in the outer court worshiping God as well.

The Jews (Judaism) associated with the organization called the temple mount faithful goal is.....

View attachment 275599

In their list of long term objectives is....
"Rebuilding the Third Temple in accordance with the words of all the Hebrew prophets (Ezekiel 40-44). This temple will be a house of prayer for the people of Israel and all the nations (Isaiah 56:7)."

That's the gentiles praying in the outer court during the false messianic age when Israel will be thinking that the Antichrist is the messiah.
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The muslims are going to be removed at the time of Gog/Magog. Which Gog/Magog is followed by the 7 years of Daniel 9:27.

What is irrational is to think that the two adjoining verses would have different time expressions if they were both the second half of the 7 years.
I disagree: God wants us to know that in prophecy there are only 30 days months. He proves this by giving the countdown in days and in months.

And to have the 1260 days in Revelation 11:3 not to be the same 1260 days in Revelation 12:6
These two are covering the same time; but the countdown for the second 1260 days will start maybe 3 1/2 days later. So 1256 days of the 1260 will be parallel between the two, covering the exact same days of the second half of the week.

Satan cast down to earth having a time, times, half times left. No, you missed it! This time is of course the same last half of the week, but it is not for Satan; it is the time those who fled will be protected and fed.

the same 1260 days in Revelation 12:6 that precede the war NONE of these periods of time precede the war, since the war will being seconds after the 7th trumpet marks the midpoint of the week. All five of these periods of time are for the last half of teh week.

The two witnesses will be testifying while the Jews are within the temple worshiping ONLY for 3 1/2 days and the very end of the first half of the week. At the abomination they will flee.

This temple will be a house of prayer for the people of Israel and all the nations (Isaiah 56:7)." Maybe in the millennial reign.

when Israel will be thinking that the Antichrist is the messiah. Since we don't know when the temple will be finished, they may only think this for days or weeks.

The muslims are going to be removed at the time of Gog/Magog. No one knows when that war will take place.

 

[Douggg]

@iamlamad

You show the 6th seal event taking place before the 7 years even begin.

In the 6th seal, the world sees Jesus in heaven before the throne of God. And the evil men of the world try to hide themselves from his wrath.

That makes no sense that sort of thing would happen before the confirming of the covenant for 7 years.

 

[iamlamad]

@iamlamad

View attachment 275607

You show the 6th seal event taking place before the 7 years even begin.

In the 6th seal, the world sees Jesus in heaven before the throne of God. And the evil men of the world try to hide themselves from his wrath.

That makes no sense that sort of thing would happen before the confirming of the covenant for 7 years.

Why not just believe what is written: in the Old Testament the day of the Lord is a day of wrath, where God will destroy the world and the sinners in the world. What you miss: the rapture is a moment before the start of Wrath. Perhaps they DO see Jesus as He comes for His church. No one knows if the rapture will be visible or not. They picture the face of God on the throne, that is for sure, and they know the Lamb has wrath too.

It seems they know Isaiah 2, the terrible earthquake is a sign of the day of the Lord, and they see the signs in the sun and moon and Know it is the day of the Lord. They know from the Old Testament that the day of the Lord is the day of His wrath. It is God's plan that the 7th week of Daniel be INSIDE the Day of the Lord. Maybe the reason is does not make sense is only because it is new to you. I suspect that the Day of the Lord will continue on through the millennial reign.

 

[Douggg]

What you miss: the rapture is a moment before the start of Wrath.

No, you are the one who missed what triggers the beginning of the Day of the Lord and the wrath within those first several years.

It is not by the rapture, but the Antichrist going into the temple, sitting, claiming to be God - that triggers the beginning of the Day of the Lord.

The rapture could take place anytime between today, right now, and that act by the Antichrist.

The rapture could happen after the 7 years begins, and the beginning of the Day of Lord still years away.

 

[iamlamad]

No, you are the one who missed what triggers the beginning of the Day of the Lord and the wrath within those first several years.

It is not by the rapture, but the Antichrist going into the temple, sitting, claiming to be God - that triggers the beginning of the Day of the Lord.

The rapture could take place anytime between today, right now, and that act by the Antichrist.

The rapture could happen after the 7 years begins, and the beginning of the Day of Lord still years away.
View attachment 275666

Sorry, but the rapture is going to take maybe a millisecond - not three inches on a timeline! Next, the rapture will be the trigger for the day.
It is very easy to find the rapture timing in Revelation: just find the start of the Day of the Lord - the 6th seal. The rapture will be a moment before the earthquake.

How amazing: you don't have the 6th seal anywhere on your drawing.
Compare: 6th seal: chapter 6 - with the abomination that divides the week: chapter 11.
You are several chapters off in your timing. There is really very little on your drawing that fits the scriptures.

The rapture could take place anytime between today, right now, and that act by the Antichrist. No, just human imagination: in Revelation, all the events between the 6th seal and the 7th trumpet will be BETWEEN the rapture and the man of sin being revealed - the abomination. In other words, the first 6 trumpets will come after the rapture and before the abomination.

The rapture could happen after the 7 years begins, and the beginning of the Day of Lord still years away. Sorry, but the start of the DAY comes first, THEN the 70th week begins.

 

[keras]

How amazing: you don't have the 6th seal anywhere on your drawing.

Yes, you do place the Sixth Seal correctly.
Douggg wants to destroy the earth just before Jesus Returns to rule it!
A very silly idea and a shuffling of the Revelation sequence.

However an even sillier idea is the 'rapture to heaven' of the Church.