Mariolatry?

[Jipsah]

No. (besides, that wouldn't work out mathematically either)

So what percentage of God is each Person in your economy? Are they each one third, or is there a weighting algorithm involved? Apparently in your universe our Lord was either only God, only human, or some fraction of each. How do you determine the percentages, and are they static or variable? And do the percentages of our Lord that are human and God bear directly on His standing in the Trinity? I trust your lot to have all this sorted out.

 

[d taylor]

That concept was shocking. However, I was more concerned with the consensus between Catholics and Orthodox that Mary contributes to our salvation: This is a role for God alone.

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I would not doubt it, as these churches add quite a few actions a person must do or keep to gain salvation.

 

[Grip Docility]

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I would not doubt it, as these churches add quite a few actions a person must do or keep to gain salvation.

My Brother in Jesus, I've been around the Christian discussion board world and when Doctrines of Grace are evoked, The Catholic's of all stripes were always in the trenches with me vying for the Salvation of sinners, long after, even the OSAS declared a person "reprobate".

I thought it was a coincidence, at first, but it was a reoccurring trend. What you are interpreting as beyond salvic Faith are the emphasized doctrines about becoming the hands of Jesus Christ, in the Growth of the Sainted Sinner, bound to their mortal coil, by work of the Holy Spirit within, that leads to acts of Love and Provision to all humanity, as if all humanity is the very face of God.

In short; "The Golden Rule".

 

[Jipsah]

All I'm getting from these responses is "The english language is inadequate to express"

Which no one that I’ve noticed has said. Maybe it’s just *your* English that’s inadequate.

Furthermore, my main protest to all of this is seeing actual instances of people elevating Mary to God in a more emphatic way. I

Really? For example?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

So you believe that He had no blood kin, correct?

Obviously not. However, it seems He did disown them in public in favor of a God's will related family.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

So what percentage of God is each Person in your economy? Are they each one third, or is there a weighting algorithm involved? Apparently in your universe our Lord was either only God, only human, or some fraction of each. How do you determine the percentages, and are they static or variable? And do the percentages of our Lord that are human and God bear directly on His standing in the Trinity? I trust your lot to have all this sorted out.

It doesn't work out mathematically, because the laws of physics in the kingdom of God and this present world are entirely different. This is why the trinity can only make sense to those who are born again through the Holy Spirit.

Thanks for giving me a hard time, but I stopped debating this earlier. You might have missed the post.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Which no one that I’ve noticed has said. Maybe it’s just *your* English that’s inadequate.

Really? For example?

Seriously, english is getting worse as time passes. I'll just learn a new language to start fresh.

I posted it earlier, no one replied to it.

 

[Jipsah]

Her role was just a surrogate from the family of David the king through Nathan. She is truly blessed amongst women, but she is not deity.

So on your belief, Jesus isn’t human at all, just God decanted from a human container.

And just got drill, no one here has even suggested that the Blessed Virgin was in any way “ a deity”, so you can stop beating that particular straw man if you like.

 

[Jipsah]

It doesn't work out mathematically, because the laws of physics in the kingdom of God and this present world are entirely different.

Do tell! I’d be keen to hear how Physics affects the nature of the Holy Trinity.

This is why the trinity can only make sense to those who are born again through the Holy Spirit.

From what I’ve seen over the years, most of the EP ideas on the the nature of the Trinity were discarded by the Church as heretical centuries ago.

Thanks for giving me a hard time, but I stopped debating this earlier. You might have missed the post.

I didn’t know you’d been debating it at all. I thought you were simply sharing some ill founded notions common amongst American Evangelicals.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Do tell! I’d be keen to hear how Physics affects the nature of the Holy Trinity.

From what I’ve seen over the years, most of the EP ideas on the the nature of the Trinity were discarded by the Church as heretical centuries ago.

I didn’t know you’d been debating it at all. I thought you were simply sharing some ill founded notions common amongst American Evangelicals.

Do you know, that even in the gospels Jesus said to pray in this manner "May your will be done on earth as it is in heaven"

Why would we pray for things that happen anyway?

This is one example of how the environment in God's place, is different than Earth. There are many such examples of how God's environment is different than ours. Another key observation is that "according to one's faith" can vary the result.

What are EP ideas?

 

[Jipsah]

What are EP ideas?

Evangelical Protestant notions.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Evangelical Protestant notions.

I'm sorry, was this diagram an EP notion?

 

[dzheremi]

I'm sorry, was this diagram an EP notion?

View attachment 352912

For as good as this diagram can be for showing how you have not confused the Persons for each other, that's not really directly related to the questions you've been asked, as making of the Trinity three gods who are each "1/3 God" wouldn't entail confusing the Persons, but is still deeply heretical.

 

[RileyG]

Do you find any place in scripture where someone prays to a person that has died?

The Saints aren't dead though- they are alive in Christ.

 

[RileyG]

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Do you believe Mary is sinless, do you venerate Mary. Is believing Mary is sinless, remained a virgin, queen of heaven, was taken to heaven, part of the salvation process or part of keeping a person saved.

I believe all of the above and she is DEFINITELY part of salvation history since she carried God the Son insider her own body.

 

[RileyG]

If Peter were in Rome, it seems strange that Paul made no mention of him in the letter. He mentions Phoebe, Priscilla, Aquila, and nineteen others in Rome, but not Peter. Baptists, at least those I know of, believe that they follow what they find in the bible, so although no group of believers was known as a baptist church back in the first century, their tenets and beliefs were there.

The Apostolic Churches do not accept Sola Scriptura. Besides, Peter did mention he was in Rome AKA Babylon

 

[RileyG]

Her role was just a surrogate from the family of David the king through Nathan. She is truly blessed amongst women, but she is not deity.

Correct. No one is treating her like a deity.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

as making of the Trinity three gods who are each "1/3 God" wouldn't entail confusing the Persons, but is still deeply heretical.

I agree that this notion is heretical and was not what I was saying.

 

[Grip Docility]

The Saints aren't dead though- they are alive in Christ.

John 5:24 Verily, verily I say unto you, he that heareth My Word and believeth in Him that sent Me, hath everlasting life and shall not come into condemnation, but is passed from death unto life

 

[BobRyan]

The Saints aren't dead though- they are alive in Christ.

The catholic church's Catechism refers to them under the title "Communion with the Dead".

In John 11 Christ says "Lazarus is dead"

There is no place in OT or NT where the dead are referred to as "The ALIVE IN CHRIST"

By contrast -- in 1 Thess 4:13-18 they are called "The DEAD in Christ"

Matt 10:28 says that they "kill the body but not the soul" -- and for that reason Jesus said in John 11 "our friend Lazarus sleeps - I go that I may wake HIM" .

that is the condition of the "dead in Christ" that you see in 1 Thess 4.

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It can all be solved in this simple example.

Matt 22 - Christ's debate with the Sadducees where he proves the future resurrection of the dead.

Sadducees did not believe in a future resurrection, or in spirits, or ghosts or any such thing.

Christ points out the following.
1. When God was speaking to Moses - God said "I am the God of Abraham , Isaac and Jacob".
2. God is not the God of the dead.

Then He argues that the only solution to that dilemma is that there most certainly has to be a future resurrection of the dead.

In the chapter the Pharisees observe the Christ's argument "put the Sadducees to silence".

So my question for you is -- how is it that Christ's logic put them to silence? In what way would the solid Bible teaching of Christ in Matt 22 leave a Sadducee with no other option but to conclude "Well then there has to be a future resurrection of the dead"?? IN your POV.