Man and dinosaur coexisting

[Larniavc]

Cyanide has energy now? Hmmm. Life is just energy we receive from food or sunlight? OK, sure. Let's go with that. Sounds legit!

Oops. I meant arsenic: no cyanide.

My bad.

But I'd agree with you here. Life can be seen as making use of energy.

 

[Larniavc]

Really, so these went from "truth" to proven fakes and hoaxes to "truth" again?

Nearly. They went from 'thought to be accurate' to 'known to be fake'. They did not go back to being 'thought to be accurate', however.

 

[Loudmouth]

I haven't been fooled. I just said that it's not right to say there is no evidence of dinosaur and man. There is evidence out there.

And yet what we are presented as evidence is either known frauds or completely refuted evidence.

 

[Loudmouth]

Look at a live organism, if it dies, what has left?

I asked first. Please stop avoiding questions.

What mystical element?

Let's start right here. You need to show us that this element is real.

 

[BrriKerr]

That means I don't know what?

What question did you answer with a verse?

 

[Loudmouth]

Cyanide has energy now? Hmmm.

All molecules have energy. Anything above 0 Kelvin has energy.

Life is just energy we receive from food or sunlight? OK, sure. Let's go with that. Sounds legit!

Have you ever studied biochemistry? Are you familiar with the TCA cycle or glycolysis? Pentose phosphate shunt? Anaerobic metabolism? Fatty acid metabolism? Do you know what enthalpy is?

I am guessing that you have no clue about the chemistry that happens inside of the cell, yet you think that qualifies you to tell biochemists, who have studied these things their whole lives, that they are all wrong. Hubris much?

 

[JacksBratt]

Oops. I meant arsenic: no cyanide.

My bad.

But I'd agree with you here. Life can be seen as making use of energy.

Sorry, I use sarcasm sometimes. That was one of the times. I totally believe that Life is only a force given and allowed to continue by the creator. Sunlight and food are not life.

 

[Loudmouth]

Sorry, I use sarcasm sometimes. That was one of the times. I totally believe that Life is only a force given and allowed to continue by the creator. Sunlight and food are not life.

Do you have something more than a faith based belief? You know, something like evidence?

 

[JacksBratt]

All molecules have energy. Anything above 0 Kelvin has energy.



Have you ever studied biochemistry? Are you familiar with the TCA cycle or glycolysis? Pentose phosphate shunt? Anaerobic metabolism? Fatty acid metabolism? Do you know what enthalpy is?

I am guessing that you have no clue about the chemistry that happens inside of the cell, yet you think that qualifies you to tell biochemists, who have studied these things their whole lives, that they are all wrong. Hubris much?

Well, I guess we are confusing life with energy now? Life is a force that I likened to energy but it is not the energy we know like electrical, kinetic, nuclear, etc.

 

[JacksBratt]

I asked first. Please stop avoiding questions.

What mystical element?

Let's start right here. You need to show us that this element is real.

I answered. It is that force or element or whatever that leaves when an organism dies. You could have a living and a recently dead bacteria. The force or energy, whatever that is missing from the dead one, that is the life I am talking about.

 

[Larniavc]

Sorry, I use sarcasm sometimes. That was one of the times. I totally believe that Life is only a force given and allowed to continue by the creator. Sunlight and food are not life.

You may believe it but you have been unable to substantiate your belief (which is essentially is vitalism).

Can you substantiate your position?

 

[JacksBratt]

Do you have something more than a faith based belief? You know, something like evidence?

When you quantify, photograph, capture, contain, weigh, the component of any living being that allows it to function, then you will have your evidence against my view.

Like I said, you can keep someone on life support by supplying them with food and oxygen while you keep their blood flowing. When that stops, something leaves. You can start again with all the life support but something is gone.
What is that?

 

[Larniavc]

I answered. It is that force or element or whatever that leaves when an organism dies.

Please demonstrate what this 'whatever' is that leaves an organism when it dies.

 

[Loudmouth]

Well, I guess we are confusing life with energy now? Life is a force that I likened to energy but it is not the energy we know like electrical, kinetic, nuclear, etc.

Prove it.

 

[Loudmouth]

When you quantify, photograph, capture, contain, weigh, the component of any living being that allows it to function, then you will have your evidence against my view.

You are the one who claims it exists. You present the evidence.

Or are you saying that you have absolutely no evidence to back up your claims?

Like I said, you can keep someone on life support by supplying them with food and oxygen while you keep their blood flowing. When that stops, something leaves. You can start again with all the life support but something is gone.
What is that?

YOU TELL ME!!! You are the one making the claims, so you show us.

 

[Dr GS Hurd]

The only driving force is 'energy in'; from food or sunlight or cyanide etc. There is nothing magical about that.

There are chemical pathways that use cyanide, HCN, which are interesting biologically;

Miyakawa S, Cleaves HJ, Miller SL.
2002 "The cold origin of life: B. Implications based on pyrimidines and purines produced from frozen ammonium cyanide solutions" Orig Life Evol Biosph;32(3):209-18

A wide variety of pyrimidines and purines were identified as products of a dilute frozen ammonium cyanide solution that had been held at -78 degrees C for 27 years. This demonstrates that both pyrimidines and purines could have been produced on the primitive earth in a short time by eutectic concentration of HCN, even though the concentration of HCN in the primitive ocean may have been low. We suggest that eutectic freezing is the most plausible demonstrated mechanism by which HCN polymerizations could have produced biologically important prebiotic compounds.

 

[Dr GS Hurd]

Then there is cyanide as a metabolic product product in plants, but more importantly by bacteria;


Borquez E, Cleaves HJ, Lazcano A, Miller SL
2005 "An investigation of prebiotic purine synthesis from the hydrolysis of HCN polymers" Orig Life Evol Biosph;35(2):79-90

Yip, W. K., & Yang, S. F. (1988). Cyanide metabolism in relation to ethylene production in plant tissues. Plant Physiology, 88(2), 473-476.

Miller, J. M., & Conn, E. E. (1980). Metabolism of hydrogen cyanide by higher plants. Plant Physiology, 65(6), 1199-1202.

Frey, B., Rieder, S. R., Brunner, I., Plötze, M., Koetzsch, S., Lapanje, A., ... & Furrer, G. (2010). Weathering-associated bacteria from the Damma glacier forefield: physiological capabilities and impact on granite dissolution. Applied and environmental microbiology, 76(14), 4788-4796.

 

[Larniavc]

There are chemical pathways that use cyanide, HCN, which are interesting biologically;

Miyakawa S, Cleaves HJ, Miller SL.
2002 "The cold origin of life: B. Implications based on pyrimidines and purines produced from frozen ammonium cyanide solutions" Orig Life Evol Biosph;32(3):209-18

A wide variety of pyrimidines and purines were identified as products of a dilute frozen ammonium cyanide solution that had been held at -78 degrees C for 27 years. This demonstrates that both pyrimidines and purines could have been produced on the primitive earth in a short time by eutectic concentration of HCN, even though the concentration of HCN in the primitive ocean may have been low. We suggest that eutectic freezing is the most plausible demonstrated mechanism by which HCN polymerizations could have produced biologically important prebiotic compounds.

Science, eh? Always learning new things!

 

[JacksBratt]

Please demonstrate what this 'whatever' is that leaves an organism when it dies.

HA HA are you asking me to die? LOL that's funny.

 

[JacksBratt]

Science, eh? Always learning new things!

Science, it is so cool. Did you know that there is a type of fish that stays in large schools and only one of them is a male fish. If he dies, one of the females transforms into a male to take his place?
So cool. It's observable, repeatable and testable. Unlike Evolution.

And, it's still..... a fish.

And. You still cannot create life.