Maintaining One's Salvation Status

[Bible Highlighter]

"worked out", not "worked for". Having been saved and eternally secure, the saved work out applications of their faith. This in contrast to salvation by works churches who reject the gospel and teach falsely that one much work for their salvation.

But the context is obedience to not only in his presence but obedience in Paul's absence.

12 "Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure." (Philippians 2:12-13).​

Verse 13 also says it is God who works in us to do of His good will and pleasure. So the context is works in reference to.... "work out your salvation with fear and trembling."

Also, why all the trembling and fear in working out our salvation if we can just have a belief alone on Jesus to be saved? There would be no reason to fear and tremble in working out one's salvation if all that was required for salvation was a belief alone on Jesus. Why all the trembling if it is not talking about fear?

So yeah, what you say with your belief here is not actually in the Bible and you have to rip that verse out of it's context in order to make your belief work.

 

[Just_a_Christian]

That, right there, is why I can’t wrap my mind around good works being a requirement for salvation.

It is quiet possible that your "mind" is getting in the way. You've heard the saying of not being able to see the forest for the trees.
You are getting stuck on this word works and you equate "earning" with "works"
If you read God's word, it is NOT works to be saved rather it is OBEYING God to receive salvation. We obey the gospel of Christ. When the children of Isreal, although facing astronomical odds, defeated their foes, did they "earn" the victory? If they had not followed God's directions would they have been successful? No. When they marched around the city seven times did they "earn" the walls to fall down? Would the walls have fallen down if they had disobeyed God? When God says to be baptised for the remission of sins, are we earning our forgiveness? NO WAY, WE CAN NEVER EARN FORGIVENESS FOR EVEN ONE TRESPASS. So. What about after we obey God and become a member of the body of Christ?
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. - 1 John 1:7
We both know NOBODY can live life without sinning from time to time. None other than Christ is capable of this.
Consider, Paul. He buffeted his body daily in the attempt to be good and yet he says although he wants to do good,, he does not. He does not want to sin but yet he sins. As long as we try to model our life after Christ. When you abandon this endeavor of righteous living we THEN put ourselves on thin ice or peril. As long as we are running the race, fighting the fight (AND IT IS A FIGHT) we have the blessed assurance that our tresspasses are forgiven and our life will bear fruit, some 2 fold some 8 fold some 10 fold and some 100 fold and more. Is the 2 fold Christian any less saved than the 100 fold Christian? No less at all, brother.
Don't let your head get in the way...
In Him

 

[fhansen]

"worked out", not "worked for". Having been saved and eternally secure, the saved work out applications of their faith. This in contrast to salvation by works churches who reject the gospel and teach falsely that one much work for their salvation.

Either way it means salvation isn't a done deal as a one-time event. We must cooperate in it's being worked out, in persevering, in making our calling and election sure.

 

[bcbsr]

Either way it means salvation isn't a done deal as a one-time event. We must cooperate in it's being worked out, in making our calling and election sure.

You can't say "either way" when the two contradict each other.

 

[fhansen]

You can't say "either way" when the two contradict each other.

I'll rephrase it even though it doesn't really change anything.

However you want to look at it, it still means salvation isn't a done deal as a one-time event. We must cooperate in it's being worked out, in persevering, in making our calling and election sure.

 

[bcbsr]

I'll rephrase it even though it doesn't really change anything.

However you want to look at it, it still means salvation isn't a done deal as a one-time event. We must cooperate in it's being worked out, in persevering, in making our calling and election sure.

I don't follow your reasoning. You're saying that if a saved and eternally secure Christians works outs applications of his salvation it means that he's working in order to be saved and therefore is not eternally secure. Makes no sense to me. You think the only reason for the saved to do things is in order to be saved?

"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life." John 5:24

Sounds like a done deal to me. And: "when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness." Rom 4:4,5

Apparently you believe neither.

 

[fhansen]

I don't follow your reasoning. You're saying that if a saved and eternally secure Christians works outs applications of his salvation it means that he's working in order to be saved and therefore is not eternally secure. Makes no sense to me. You think the only reason for the saved to do things is in order to be saved?

No, it means I don't agree with your "applications of salvation" theory as you apply it to working out ones salvation. And God, alone, knows with 100% certainty whose names are written in the Book of Life and whose are not, who will persevere and who will not.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

It is quiet possible that your "mind" is getting in the way. You've heard the saying of not being able to see the forest for the trees.
You are getting stuck on this word works and you equate "earning" with "works"

I agree, brother.

For the clarification of our other readers, I would say this to them:

I believe that in Romans 4:4 that when Paul says, "Now to him that works is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt" Paul is referring to the denial of God's grace by a person thinking they had to first be circumcised in order to be saved (Instead of being initially and ultimately saved by God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ and His death and resurrection - with us seeking His forgiveness) (To check out the apostle's fight against the heresy of "Circumcision Salvationism", see: Acts of the Apostles 15:1, Acts of the Apostles 15:5, Acts of the Apostles 15:24, Galatians 2:3, Galatians 2:3, Galatians 5:2, Galatians 5:6, Galatians 6:5, 1 Corinthians 7:18-19, Romans 2:28-29, Romans 3:1, Romans 4:9-12, Acts of the Apostles 21:21) (Note: Please hover your cursor over these verses so as to help you to see where I am coming from). Anyways, Paul is attacking "Works ALONE Salvationism" here (via "Circumcision Salvationism"), and he is not referring to the necessity of works of faith as a part of the salvation process (after they are saved by God's grace through faith).

For there are TWO kinds of works.

#1. Works that are "Works Alone Salvationism." (Which is false).
(Like at a job: This is Works Alone To Earn Salvation or the Reward; Note: The Reward is Jesus Christ, for he is our prize.).
Romans 4:4 tells us that these kind of works are like the works that one does at a job. You do this work, and then you get paid (reward). The work is of debt and not out of grace.
Muslims believe in no grace by faith, and they believe in "Works Alone Salvationism" (Which is false). The pharisees were trying to deceive Christians into this kind of heresy by thinking they had to FIRST be circumcised in order to be saved and not by God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

#2. Works that are "Works Faith" (Which is true) that plays a part in the salvation process after we are saved by God's grace.
(This is works of responsibility in owning a free gift).
I can receive a car as a free gift, but if I drive with a flat tire at tops speeds (ignoring general maintenance), or if I run red lights, drive drunk, and or hit pedestrians, it is highly possible that I will not have my free gift (a car) for very long. The same is true if a man considers his wife as a gift from the Lord (that he has prayed for). Does that mean that the man can cheat on his wife (who he regards as a free gift from God) with him expecting her to stay with him? No. The man has to put forth works of responsibility in showing that he is faithful and loving towards her to maintain that relationship (Which is a gift from God). Ephesians 2:9 says we are saved by God's grace through faith and not of works. This would be not saved by Works ALONE. Ephesians 2:10 then talks about the necessity of works that should follow. But Paul here is trying to fight against "Works ALONE Salvationism." We are saved by God's grace (Who is Jesus Christ). Jesus Christ is the gift. He is our prized possession in these vessels of clay jars we call our bodies. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son. Thank God for His unspeakable gift (Who is Jesus - who is the source of our salvation) (See 1 John 5:12). But those believers out there who think that all is required for salvation is a belief alone set themselves up for failure in the fact that they minimize the dangers of sin and how they can destroy their own souls (without even realizing it). For the OSAS or Belief Alone Proponent, falling away due to sin is not even possible for them. Therein lies the danger indeed.​

There are "Works of Faith" that are a part of our faith (that plays a part in our salvation), and there are "Wrong Works" (Works Alone Salvationism without God's grace) that Paul argued against.

So there are:

1. Works like at a Job (Works Alone in One Trying to Earn Salvation Alone without God's grace) which is wrong.
2. Works of Responsibility as a part of our Faith (in owning a Free Gift, God's grace, who is Jesus Christ) which is correct.​

Two entirely different kinds of works here.

It is my prayer, that those who are honest with themselves in the Belief Alone Camp will relook at these Scripture verses we have put forth today and maybe reconsider that what they have been told was not exactly true.

Peace, and blessings to you all in the Lord today.

 

[crossnote]

For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, [who is] our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory. (Colossians 3:3-4 KJV)

To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. (1 Peter 1:4-5 KJV)

 

[com7fy8]

not only do future events not change one's status, but the individual themselves (being a part of all creation) cannot change it.

So, is this the predestination belief?

I think it can help to know that there are more than one idea about what predestination means. bcbsr, I would say, is more talking in the above quote, about how one can not lose one's salvation. But this can fit with a predestination idea that God is in control of everything.

 

[com7fy8]

Trusting in Christ and not in oneself is to me one of the most important issues. It's fundamental to the gospel

"Trust in the LORD with all your heart,
.And lean not on your own understanding;
.In all your ways acknowledge Him,
.And He shall direct your paths."
. . . . . .. . . . . . .(Proverbs 3:5-6)

"And we have such trust through Christ toward God. Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think of anything as being from ourselves, but our sufficiency is from God," (2 Corinthians 3:4-5)

 

[bcbsr]

I think it can help to know that there are more than one idea about what predestination means. bcbsr, I would say, is more talking in the above quote, about how one can not lose one's salvation. But this can fit with a predestination idea that God is in control of everything.

Being a Berean I try to conform my understanding of such concepts to what the scriptures actually say. Rom 8 and Eph 1 are the main places in the NT where the word "predestined" is used.

 

[com7fy8]

Rom 8 and Eph 1 are the main places in the NT where the word "predestined" is used.

And Romans 8:29 says what is the main purpose and result of being predestined, I think. Ones can get very sidetracked, I think, with who is in control, and not feed on how God is committed to conforming us to the image of Jesus so He can have many brethren.

Also, though predestination is not mentioned in word, Romans chapter nine can give things about what is involved, I think.

 

[JacksBratt]

I take it you are attempting to say that Romans 8:1-2 proves a faith only salvation.
1. There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
....no condemnation to those who are IN Christ Jesus. Many people overlook this small but crucial word IN. How does one get to this state of being IN Christ? Only through baptism do we get into Christ.

For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. - Galatians 3:27-28

Romans 8:2
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Those who are IN Christ are no longer bound to the old law of sin and death because those IN Christ have continual forgiveness of sins as long as we walk in the light.

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. - 1 John 1:7
Consider the folliwing scrioture.
As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; - Colossians 2:6-13
If we be IN Him we have the spiritual circumcision through being baptised into Christ. We crucify the old man of sin in baptism and God gives life (quickened) with Him, having been forgiven all of our trespasses through baptism.

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. - Acts 2:38-39

And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord. - Acts 22:16

The whole "we need to be baptized to be saved" is another topic altogether.

I'll bet the thief on the cross holds to the "not necessary" view.

 

[aiki]

Many of the "Salvation by faith in works" Christian have proposed that one is "initially saved" by faith alone,

The idea of "initial salvation" appears no where in the New Testament. The phrase is never used and the idea never implied. It is the means by which some saved-and-lost proponents try to slip around the verses which flatly and explicitly deny salvation by works (which necessarily confounds a saved-and-lost view): Ephesians 2:8-10, 2 Timothy 1:9, Titus 3:5.

Thus one's trust is in their own performance to "finally" saved them, which is salvation by faith in works.

Exactly.

Can it be said that a person "has been saved" from going to hell if that fate is dependent upon his ongoing performance? No, logically it cannot be said.

And so some of those espousing a saved-and-lost, works-salvation doctrine must create "stages" of salvation that allow them to insinuate their false doctrine into Scripture. The SAL (saved-and-lost) doctrine relies heavily on eisegesis, however, and very specious reasoning and so ought to be rejected outright.

 

[Just_a_Christian]

The whole "we need to be baptized to be saved" is another topic altogether.

I'll bet the thief on the cross holds to the "not necessary" view.

The thief definitely would hold to that for him, but if he were living today he may well, and should, believe otherwise. Why? We should understand that the thief lived on the other side of the cross, meaning he was bound under the law of Moses or the old covenant. A testament (today you & I have wills) is of no effect while the testator still lives. Just as our wills aren't active or exercised until we die. Thus it was with Jesus's testament. When Jesus died on the cross for our sins His testament came into effect and we now live under the New Testament or law of liberty. That's is why the thief had no need to obey the gospel of Jesus Christ.

 

[JacksBratt]

The thief definitely would hold to that for him, but if he were living today he may well, and should, believe otherwise. Why? We should understand that the thief lived on the other side of the cross, meaning he was bound under the law of Moses or the old covenant. A testament (today you & I have wills) is of no effect while the testator still lives. Just as our wills aren't active or exercised until we die. Thus it was with Jesus's testament. When Jesus died on the cross for our sins His testament came into effect and we now live under the New Testament or law of liberty. That's is why the thief had no need to obey the gospel of Jesus Christ.

I have read a lot of discussion on this belief that baptism is necessary for salvation.. However, I don't hold to that view.

The thief... ya, maybe, maybe not, on the other side of the cross.. Or, just maybe the first human saved by his faith and acknowledgement as to who Christ was.

Furthermore, what you are saying is that salvation has different steps and requirements for different people..
For instance. A guy gets shipwrecked on an Island, realizes that he is going to die, digs into his childhood upbringing and Sunday school.. gets on his knees and gives himself to Christ.... Nobody is there to baptize him... he is saved without baptism.

Another guy, laying under a car at an accident. Bystander or first responder asks if he knows Jesus.. The man accepts Christ, right there, dies without baptism.

Another is saved one night at a youth group that a friend brought him to. On the way home, after giving his life to Christ, is killed in a car crash.. died without baptism.


All these different scenarios present conditions where the person was saved or gave themselves to Christ and accepted Him.. yet died without baptism.

I, personally think that baptism is a thing that should be done. But, as a public profession of faith in Christ, a dying to your old self and reemergence to a new you as a child of God.

However, I'm not going to go to the funeral of a 50 year old man that was saved in a youth rally in his 20's, attended church, did service at the church and was a fine representation as a child of God.. but was not baptized...and tell his grieving mother, father and wife that he is going to hell because he never got baptized.

 

[Anthony2019]

This one always used to puzzle me, but I've come to the conclusion that whether someone believes in eternal security or salvation by works, the outcome is still the same. A person who has genuinely come to Christ is expected to show in their lives the fruits of the Holy Spirit (joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, self control, etc) (Matthew 7:19). But, it should be said that although good works alone cannot save anyone, they are general indicators as to whether someone is living a life that is pleasing to Christ and whether they will be rewarded with eternal life (Matthew 25:40).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

This one always used to puzzle me, but I've come to the conclusion that whether someone believes in eternal security or salvation by works, the outcome is still the same. A person who has genuinely come to Christ is expected to show in their lives the fruits of the Holy Spirit (joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, self control, etc) (Matthew v7:19). But, it should be said that although good works alone cannot save anyone, they are general indicators as to whether someone is living a life that is pleasing to Christ and whether they will be rewarded with eternal life (Matthew 25:40).

The inherent problem with a Faith Alone (with no works) for salvation view is that it makes a person think they do not have to do works or they can commit sin and think they are saved. But they will double speak and say that no true believer will think that way. They are changed. So basically they are saying that works does play a part in the salvation process but it is the changed life that makes that possible. For many will say that a believer will not seek to justify sin. But when I ask them if King David was saved while he committed his sins of adultery and murder, they say he was still saved. If I ask them if a believer (Who generally lives holy) were to die in unrepentant sin like lying or lusting after a woman, they would say that he is still be saved. They think that one or two grievous sins is not enough to show that a believer is not saved. That God cannot separate us from His love by just one sin. But it happened in the Garden. Adam and Eve were separated by one sin. Ananias and Sapphira were also separated from God by their one sin, as well. For a great fear came upon the church about their deaths in lying to the Holy Spirit.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I have read a lot of discussion on this belief that baptism is necessary for salvation.. However, I don't hold to that view.

The thief... ya, maybe, maybe not, on the other side of the cross.. Or, just maybe the first human saved by his faith and acknowledgement as to who Christ was.

Furthermore, what you are saying is that salvation has different steps and requirements for different people..
For instance. A guy gets shipwrecked on an Island, realizes that he is going to die, digs into his childhood upbringing and Sunday school.. gets on his knees and gives himself to Christ.... Nobody is there to baptize him... he is saved without baptism.

Another guy, laying under a car at an accident. Bystander or first responder asks if he knows Jesus.. The man accepts Christ, right there, dies without baptism.

Another is saved one night at a youth group that a friend brought him to. On the way home, after giving his life to Christ, is killed in a car crash.. died without baptism.


All these different scenarios present conditions where the person was saved or gave themselves to Christ and accepted Him.. yet died without baptism.

I, personally think that baptism is a thing that should be done. But, as a public profession of faith in Christ, a dying to your old self and reemergence to a new you as a child of God.

However, I'm not going to go to the funeral of a 50 year old man that was saved in a youth rally in his 20's, attended church, did service at the church and was a fine representation as a child of God.. but was not baptized...and tell his grieving mother, father and wife that he is going to hell because he never got baptized.

This is like the workers in the field who were all paid the same amount despite the different amount of time that they worked. They all received the same reward.... who is Jesus Christ (salvation). For Jesus is our pearl of great price. But even the thief on the cross was faithful or did a work at showing his devotion to Christ before he died by defending Jesus against wrong words by the other thief. In fact, our choice to believe and accept Christ is technically a form of obedience or work. This is why believing in Jesus is called both a commandment (1 John 3:23) and a work (John 6:28-29). Salvation is synergistic. It's two way. God saves but we have to cooperate with His plan of salvation. For some, it is accepting Christ on their death beds. For others, it requires them being faithful unto death. That is what the Scriptures say.

"...be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." (Revelation 2:10).