Maintaining One's Salvation Status

[eleos1954]

The point of my OP is that statement itself implies you believe in eternal security. For what is one saved from but eternal condemnation. If one is saved from a future event, then that implies that nothing in the future can change that status. Which is kind of what Romans 8 likewise says, "For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord."

And that's the point of Romans 8 - Eternal Security (much as Jason will chime in his objection) and not only do future events not change one's status, but the individual themselves (being a part of all creation) cannot change it.

So, is this the predestination belief?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The point of my OP is that statement itself implies you believe in eternal security. For what is one saved from but eternal condemnation. If one is saved from a future event, then that implies that nothing in the future can change that status. Which is kind of what Romans 8 likewise says, "For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord."

And that's the point of Romans 8 - Eternal Security (much as Jason will chime in his objection) and not only do future events not change one's status, but the individual themselves (being a part of all creation) cannot change it.

The trusty KJV says THINGS in the present and THINGS in the future. It is talking about external THINGS. External. External things. Not you. Not your sin (Which are internal). Nowhere is "you" or your "sin" mentioned in John 8:38-39. In fact Romans 8:13, Paul says this:

"For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live." (Romans 8:13).

Is it possible for a believer to go back into living after the flesh (sin) and fall away?

You don't seem to think so.

But the Bible says otherwise.

Here are several lists of verses that makes it absolutely clear that believers can fall away from the faith:

Here is a General List of Verses on How Believers Can Fall Away:

1 Samuel 16:14
1 Samuel 31:4
Ezekiel 18:24
Hebrews 3:12-14
Hebrews 4:11
Hebrews 6:4-9
Hebrews 10:26-30
Hebrews 12:15
1 Timothy 1:18-20
1 Timothy 4:1-7
Galatians 3:1-5
2 Peter 2:20-22
2 Peter 3:17
Matthew 13:18-23
1 Corinthians 10:12
2 Thessalonians 2:3

Now, do not misunderstand me, believers cannot lose their salvation (like they would a pair of car keys), but they can forfeit their salvation (i.e. they can willingly throw it away by rebelling against God). In fact,


Here is a list of believers who have forfeited their salvation:

Saul (1 Samuel 16:14) (1 Samuel 31:4)
Demas (2 Timothy 4:10)
The Prodigal Son (Luke 15:11-32)
Judas Iscariot (Psalm 41:9) (Luke 6:16) (Acts 1:25)
Hymenaeus and Philetus (2 Timothy 2:17-18)
Unnamed Christians destroyed by false teaching (2 Timothy 2:17-18)
Many Unnamed Disciples (John 6:66)
Some Younger Christian Widows (1 Timothy 5:14-15)
Some Christians Eager For Money (1 Timothy 6:8-10)
Ananias and Sapphira (Acts of the Apostles 5:1-11)


And here is a list of potential fallen believers:

The Servant Who is Not Looking For Him (Luke 12:45-46)
Recent Convert Who is a Potential Spiritual Leader (1 Timothy 3:6)
The Unforgiving in Heart (Matthew 6:14-15)
Luke Warm Unrepentant Believer (Revelation 3:14-22)
Fruitless Christians (John 15:1-10) (Matthew 25:14-30)
Widows That Live in Pleasure (1 Timothy 5:5-6)
Believers Whose Seed Fell Upon the Rocks (Luke 8:13)
Believers Whose Seed Was Choked by Thorns (Matthew 13:22)
Gentile Believer Who Did Not Have on a Wedding Garment (Matthew 22:1-14) (Revelation 19:7-8)
The Potential Fellow Believer Who Erred From the Truth & Was Converted Back
(James 5:19-20)

 

[bèlla]

I don't believe one whit of it. My rational sense tells me it's impossible for everyone to be correct. There are definite mistakes in all these teachings.

In all my dialogues with the Holy Spirit this has never come up. He has yet to say, "Bella if you do 'this' I'm gone" or "this will boot you out."

What I do hear is the impact my actions have. How my behavior may open doors and the negative spiritual consequences of its continuance. I learn about sanctification, grace, prayer and other subjects. But theology has never come up nor has Calvin or any denomination. He points me to the Word.

 

[crossnote]

But the point I wish to make and discuss is the inherent contradiction in terms of their initial premise - parsing "initial" salvation from "final" salvation.

There is a parsing that should be made, where failure to do so has led to lot's of unnecessary bickering and that is making the distinction between 'ones salvation' and the 'Lord's Salvation'.
Of course if 'salvation' were ours, we would lose it. But salvation is the Lord's and He will complete what He began.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I don't believe one whit of it. My rational sense tells me it's impossible for everyone to be correct. There are definite mistakes in all these teachings.

Except your own teachings?
Granted, I am not saying that I am free from error;
But I do strive to follow what God's Word says plainly (without trying to justify something wrong or immoral) and without trying to add to God's Word through what I believe God is saying to me or by some vision or by some other supposed holy transmission.

In all my dialogues with the Holy Spirit this has never come up. He has yet to say, "Bella if you do 'this' I'm gone" or "this will boot you out."

You actually believe you hear God's audible voice?
While nothing is impossible for God, how do you know it is really God talking to you?
Do you pray directly to the Holy Spirit (Which is not mentioned in the Bible)?
Or do you stick to the preferred Biblical method of praying to God the Father and or to Jesus?
What purpose does the Bible serve if we can just get all the communication we need by way of prayer?
This is why I am a Sola Scriptura Christian.
This is why I am a Cessationist.
It is not that we cannot hear from God, but when God does speak to us, it will be a glorification of His Word and not a lack thereof. For the Scriptures say that God magnifies His Word above His name. For even Jesus quoted the Holy Scriptures many times.
I know; For the times God has spoken inaudibly to me, it was through His Word in powerful ways.

Here is a graphic I created of what I believe the Bible teaches:

What I do hear is the impact my actions have. How my behavior may open doors and the negative spiritual consequences of its continuance. I learn about sanctification, grace, prayer and other subjects. But theology has never come up nor has Calvin or any denomination. He points me to the Word.

I believe the Bible is my sole source of authority and that prayer is subordinate to that. If it is not in the Bible, I strive not to do that particular spiritual practice or thing.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

There is a parsing that should be made, where failure to do so has led to lot's of unnecessary bickering and that is making the distinction between 'ones salvation' and the 'Lord's Salvation'.
Of course if 'salvation' were ours, we would lose it. But salvation is the Lord's and He will complete what He began.

Are you a Universalist or a Calvinist?

The Bible says,

"Do two journey together unless they have agreed?'
(Amos 3:3) (NABRE).

The Bible also says...

We need to endure in our faith to continue to be saved:

"But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;" Hebrews 3:13-14.

"Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him." James 1:12.

"But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. Matthew 24:13.

"...be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." Revelation 2:10.

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God." Revelation 2:7.

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death." Revelation 2:11.

"He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels." Revelation 3:5.

"Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life." Jude 1:21.​

Sure doesn't sound like God is forcing salvation upon us here after we have made a one time prayer or decision to believe in Jesus as our Savior. We have to KEEP ourselves in the love of God LOOKING for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ, and we have to OVERCOME, so as not to be blotted out of the book of life and not be hurt by the second death. We have to be FAITHFUL unto death so we can receive the crown of life. We have to ENDURE to the end to be saved. We have to ENDURE TEMPTATION, for when we are tried, we will receive the crown of life. We are made partakers with Christ IF we HOLD FROM THE BEGINNING OF OUR CONFIDENCE STEDFAST UNTO THE END.

 

[bcbsr]

So, is this the predestination belief?

Note the context in which predestination is spoken of in scripture. It's applied to believers in Christ and the context is advocating eternal security.

Eph 1:
4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love
5 he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will—
6 to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves.
7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace
8 that he lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding.
9 And he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ,
10 to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillment— to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ.
11 In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will,
12 in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory.
13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,
14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession— to the praise of his glory

Same thing in Romans 8 where predestination implies eternal security. (Contrary to Jason's salvation by works viewpoint)

Predestination in scripture is used to advocate the idea of eternal security. And granted that salvation includes not only one's status and one's destiny, but it also includes the inevitable effect on one's behavior, as John clarifies in 1John 3:9 where being born of God changes a person such that they are no longer capable of living in sin. (Contrary to Jason's viewpoint)

 

[eleos1954]

Note the context in which predestination is spoken of in scripture. It's applied to believers in Christ and the context is advocating eternal security.

Eph 1:
4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love
5 he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will—
6 to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves.
7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace
8 that he lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding.
9 And he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ,
10 to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillment— to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ.
11 In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will,
12 in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory.
13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,
14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession— to the praise of his glory

Same thing in Romans 8 where predestination implies eternal security. (Contrary to Jason's salvation by works viewpoint)

Predestination in scripture is used to advocate the idea of eternal security. And granted that salvation includes not only one's status and one's destiny, but it also includes the inevitable effect on one's behavior, as John clarifies in 1John 3:9 where being born of God changes a person such that they are no longer capable of living in sin. (Contrary to Jason's viewpoint)

Do you sin?

 

[Not David]

There is no assurance of salvation but God is a good God who loves mankind. He is the only one who decides.

 

[crossnote]

Are you a Universalist or a Calvinist?

The Bible says,

"Do two journey together unless they have agreed?'
(Amos 3:3) (NABRE).

The Bible also says...

We need to endure in our faith to continue to be saved:

"But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;" Hebrews 3:13-14.

"Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him." James 1:12.

"But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. Matthew 24:13.

"...be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." Revelation 2:10.

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God." Revelation 2:7.

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death." Revelation 2:11.

"He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels." Revelation 3:5.

"Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life." Jude 1:21.​

Sure doesn't sound like God is forcing salvation upon us here after we have made a one time prayer or decision to believe in Jesus as our Savior. We have to KEEP ourselves in the love of God LOOKING for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ, and we have to OVERCOME, so as not to be blotted out of the book of life and not be hurt by the second death. We have to be FAITHFUL unto death so we can receive the crown of life. We have to ENDURE to the end to be saved. We have to ENDURE TEMPTATION, for when we are tried, we will receive the crown of life. We are made partakers with Christ IF we HOLD FROM THE BEGINNING OF OUR CONFIDENCE STEDFAST UNTO THE END.

I'm sorry you take the Scriptures in such a way that the Lord's salvation is dependent on our doing. I'm neither a Calvinist or a Universalist. Probably bloserto a Berean of Acts 17:11, but thanks anyways.

 

[bcbsr]

Do you sin?

I don't live in sin, do you?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I'm sorry you take the Scriptures in such a way that the Lord's salvation is dependent on our doing. I'm neither a Calvinist or a Universalist. Probably bloserto a Berean of Acts 17:11, but thanks anyways.

Then what do you make about the verses I proposed that talk about how we have to endure, overcome, hold stedfast our confidence unto the end, and to keep ourselves in the love of God looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ?

 

[eleos1954]

I don't live in sin, do you?

Romans 7

18I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh; for I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19For I do not do the good I want to do. Instead, I keep on doing the evil I do not want to do. 20And if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

21So this is the principle I have discovered: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22For in my inner being I delight in God’s Law. 23But I see another law at work in my body, warring against the law of my mind and holding me captive to the law of sin that dwells within me. 24What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25Thanks be to God, through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, with my mind I serve the law of God, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

12 in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory.
13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,
14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession— to the praise of his glory

Same thing in Romans 8 where predestination implies eternal security. (Contrary to Jason's salvation by works viewpoint)

Predestination in scripture is used to advocate the idea of eternal security. And granted that salvation includes not only one's status and one's destiny, but it also includes the inevitable effect on one's behavior, as John clarifies in 1John 3:9 where being born of God changes a person such that they are no longer capable of living in sin. (Contrary to Jason's viewpoint)

Okay. First, I do not believe in Salvation by Works Alone (Which is implied when you say I believe in salvation by works). I believe Faith + Works of Faith = Salvation (Note: "Faith" meaning: faith in Jesus Christ as one's Savior and believing in His death and resurrection, and in seeking forgiveness and receiving Him). So please do not say I believe something that I do not believe. Oh, and before you say it, please see my side note below.

Second, in verse 12 of the passage in Ephesians 1, we see the word "might be" as in reference that we might be the praise of his glory (Which suggests that we may not be the praise of his glory in the fact that we are faithless).

We also have to balance such verses by looking at others in the same book, as well.

3 "But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
4 neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them."
(Ephesians 5:3-7).​

Okay. It makes no sense to warn saints about something that they could never do (Which is live in sin - which you think is impossible for a saint). Paul says clearly in verse 7 to be not partakers with them. If saints are forever changed to a point where they cannot live in sin, then Paul warning them to not be partakers of them would be useless point to make or redundant because he would be telling them to do something that they would not do anyways.

Side Note:

You say you do not believe you can sin and still be saved (from your previous posts). I asked some questions in a previous post to you that you did not answer in hopes to show that you in fact do not believe you can sin and still be saved on some level. Let me ask you: If a believer happens to stumble into a grievous sin like say "lying," are they saved or unsaved when they commit that sin? If you say they are saved, then you are teaching that a believer can commit grievous sin and still be saved on some level.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,
14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession— to the praise of his glory

Same thing in Romans 8 where predestination implies eternal security. (Contrary to Jason's salvation by works viewpoint)

Predestination in scripture is used to advocate the idea of eternal security. And granted that salvation includes not only one's status and one's destiny, but it also includes the inevitable effect on one's behavior, as John clarifies in 1John 3:9 where being born of God changes a person such that they are no longer capable of living in sin. (Contrary to Jason's viewpoint)

What is the condition of having the seal of God?

Scripture says, God the Father has set his seal upon those who labor for the meat that endures unto everlasting life.

"Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed." (John 6:27).

In fact, what is a guarantee?

Guarantee receipts normally have conditions which you can normally read in the ”fine print”. If you get a guarantee receipt for a certain product and you would like to make a claim, the store might request that you bring both the product and the receipt with you before they are willing to look at your claim. They might also request that you do this within a certain time frame and that you state what’s wrong with the product. Another example could be if someone buys you a bus ticket which guarantees you to get to a certain city PROVIDED that 1) you don’t throw away your ticket, 2) that you embark the right bus on the right time, and 3) that you STAY ON the bus until it arrives at the city. The BUS will arrive at the city as promised, but the question is if YOU will choose to be among the bus passengers.

1 Samuel 16:14
But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.

Psalms 5:11
Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me

Again, circumcision was a ”seal” for those under the old covenant.

Romans 4:11
And he received the sign of circumcision, a SEAL of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also.

This seal WAS broken and guaranteed nothing when those who were circumcised broke the covenant and were cut off from the people of God.

Romans 2:25-27
25 For circumcision verily profiteth, IF thou keep the law: but IF thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. 26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? 27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?

As you can see, this seal was conditioned on continued faith and obedience. The Holy Spirit marks us as God’s children of the new covenant but if we abandon the faith, and/or live in disobedience then the Spirit of God no longer remains in us and we are no longer sealed. Circumcised (sealed) jews were broken off through unbelief.


Acts 5:32
And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

John 14:15-16
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever

Romans 8:9-10
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, IF so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And IF Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

God speaks of the Israelites who ”grieved” His Holy Spirit in their rebellion. These Jews were cut off from the promise of entering God’s rest and they became God’s enemies.

Isaiah 63:10
But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: THEREFORE he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them.

Isaiah 63:14
As a beast goeth down into the valley, the Spirit of the LORD caused him to rest: so didst thou lead thy people, to make thyself a glorious name.

In the NT the ”rest” is the eternal rest that all believers will attain. The book of Hebrews continually speak of the promise of eternal rest, in combination with WARNINGS to believers not to miss out on this promised rest through hardening their hearts in unbelief, just as the Israelites did who rebelled against God during the Exodus (Read Hebrews 3 and Hebrews 10).

Source used:
Sealed UNTO the day of redemption, but a seal can be broken Eph. 4:30

 

[com7fy8]

making salvation out to be contingent upon one's performance. Thus one's trust is in their own performance to "finally" saved them, which is salvation by faith in works.

Or, perhaps it could be called faith in self.

And how will our self do?

 

[bcbsr]

Or, perhaps it could be called faith in self.

And how will our self do?

Trusting in Christ and not in oneself is to me one of the most important issues. It's fundamental to the gospel and yet discarded as if heresy by many on these forums. It's kind of disturbing.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Maintaining One's Salvation Status

Many of the "Salvation by faith in works" Christian have proposed that one is "initially saved" by faith alone, but then must maintain their salvation status by living up to some standard of performance to be "finally saved", thus making salvation out to be contingent upon one's performance. Thus one's trust is in their own performance to "finally" saved them, which is salvation by faith in works.

But the point I wish to make and discuss is the inherent contradiction in terms of their initial premise - parsing "initial" salvation from "final" salvation. Can it be said that a person "has been saved" from going to hell if that fate is dependent upon his ongoing performance? No, logically it cannot be said.

One could logically say, based on their premise, that a person, having "believed" has the possibility of being saved, contingent upon whether he lives up to it, but under such a soteriology one cannot make the statement using the prefect tense -

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith— and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast." Eph 2:8,9

Out of our Faith, our works become more Holy. So good works is the result of our faith. The fruit of the Holy Spirit.

 

[bèlla]

But I do strive to follow what God's Word says plainly (without trying to justify something wrong or immoral) and without trying to add to God's Word through what I believe God is saying to me or by some vision or by some other supposed holy transmission.

No, we all err but we serve a merciful God. I did not come to faith in a church or hear the gospel either. I found God and Christ in a Jewish synagogue. I don't expect my behavior to mirror yours.

You actually believe you hear God's audible voice?

I don't hear sound in the manner that you and I produce when we speak. Yet it sounds like a voice within that is clear. I have mentioned on numerous occasions that discernment will include demonic experiences. And have stated the necessity of being conversant in the Word and walking closely with God. Deception is possible.

While nothing is impossible for God, how do you know it is really God talking to you?
Do you pray directly to the Holy Spirit (Which is not mentioned in the Bible)?
Or do you stick to the preferred Biblical method of praying to God the Father and or to Jesus?
What purpose does the Bible serve if we can just get all the communication we need by way of prayer?

I have shared my testimony on the board a few times. I'll give you the link instead recounting it here. You'll see my comments on the third and fourth page. I think they will answer some of your questions.

Nor did I say that I don't read the bible. I do not claim anything but an allegiance to the most High. That is enough. I pray to the Father and rely on the Holy Spirit's guidance.

If I subscribed to the things you said in the visual attachments (which are well done). Where would I fit in your description? I entered the synagogue with a certainty that Christ did not exist and wasn't sure about God. Nevertheless, I came to know both were true.

Did I find Him in the Torah?

 

[crossnote]

Then what do you make about the verses I proposed that talk about how we have to endure, overcome, hold stedfast our confidence unto the end, and to keep ourselves in the love of God looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ?

What do I think?
I think I could show how you took your 8 verses or so out of context and I could give you 10-20 verses supporting my stance. But I won't since we will be wasting each other's time being already convinced our own view is correct. Debating such things in such a way is a waste of time at least I'm not called to do such.

Philippians 1:6 NKJV
[6] being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ;