Maintaining One's Salvation Status

[Dave-W]

One person on this forum has told me that they do not sin. They then said unintended sins don’t count. I disagree with both statements.

So do I. (Disagree that is)

I do not know who you refer to, but it sounds like a few people I have had conversations with that ascribe to the Wesleyan idea of total sanctification. They never sin by watering down the definition of sin.

 

[Dave-W]

Do you think the thief on the cross that Jesus Christ told that he would be in paradise-today- only had good thoughts from that moment on till he died?

The thief was NOT saved under the New Covenant, he was saved under the Mosaic, since Christ had not yet risen from the grave.

 

[Dave-W]

What do you mean by intentional exactly? What if I drive my car 75 mph in a 65 mph zone and I do it habitually?
The Bible teaches we are to obey the "powers that be", right?
I'm not being facetious...

Intentionally.

God gave us marriage as a picture of our relationship to God. THink about being married and some of the things you could do that would seriously hurt that relationship. Or end it.

Then do a study (mostly OT) of the sins that would either get one killed or “cut off.” Those are the sins that seriously damage our relationship to God. Intentionally and habitually doing those eventually will end with us being cut off from salvation.

At least that is how I see it.

 

[bcbsr]

So do I. (Disagree that is)

I do not know who you refer to, but it sounds like a few people I have had conversations with that ascribe to the Wesleyan idea of total sanctification. They never sin by watering down the definition of sin.

Yes, the phrase of "unintended sins" is typical of Weslyans. Wesley speaks of his perfectionism concept as not including issues of ignorance.

John Wesley "We Secondly believe, that there is no such perfection in this life, as implies an entire deliverance, either from ignorance, or mistake, in things not essential to salvation, or from manifold temptations, or from numberless infirmities, wherewith the corruptible body more or less presses down the soul. We cannot find any ground in Scripture to suppose, that any inhabitant of a house of clay is wholly exempt either from bodily infirmities, or from ignorance of many things; or to imagine any is incapable of mistake, or falling into divers temptations."

In fact some Christians I've heard classifying their sins as simply mistakes.

 

[bcbsr]

The thief was NOT saved under the New Covenant, he was saved under the Mosaic, since Christ had not yet risen from the grave.

I would have to disagree with you on this. The man was justified by faith, just as Abraham and David. In Romans 4 Paul views their justification by faith - apart from the Mosaic Law - as analogous to Christian faith. True that the New Covenant didn't start until Acts chapter 2 when the Spirit was given. But justification was always by faith apart from the law.

Ga 3:11 But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for "the just shall live by faith." (Hab 2:4 - Old Testament)

 

[Danthemailman]

Salvation by works Christians confuse the cause with the evidence of justification.

Amen! Salvation by works "nominal" Christians. From beginning "have been saved through faith" (Ephesians 2:8) to end "receiving the end of your faith--the salvation of your souls" (1 Peter 1:9) salvation is by grace through faith and is neither "obtained" (type 1 works salvation) or "maintained" (type 2 works salvation) by works.

 

[Dave-W]

Yes, the phrase of "unintended sins" is typical of Weslyans. Wesley speaks of his perfectionism concept as not including issues of ignorance.

John Wesley "We Secondly believe, that there is no such perfection in this life, as implies an entire deliverance, either from ignorance, or mistake, in things not essential to salvation, or from manifold temptations, or from numberless infirmities, wherewith the corruptible body more or less presses down the soul. We cannot find any ground in Scripture to suppose, that any inhabitant of a house of clay is wholly exempt either from bodily infirmities, or from ignorance of many things; or to imagine any is incapable of mistake, or falling into divers temptations."

In fact some Christians I've heard classifying their sins as simply mistakes.

Part of the problem IMO is the NT mixing of sins transgressions and iniquities, lumping them all into the category “sin.” I suspect the problem was whoever translated the terms from Aramaic into koine Greek did not really get the differences. Or perhaps Koine Greek did not differentiate.

Either way, I use the OT definitions (since God does not change) with sin being an archery term meaning to aim at a target but missing; transgression meaning an intentional violation of a known command; and iniquity being the trans generational effects and predispositions from your forefathers’ sins and transgressions.

 

[ColoRaydo]

We do what we can to the best of our ability.

That, right there, is why I can’t wrap my mind around good works being a requirement for salvation.

What is the best of my ability? I can always do more.

I started off yesterday with prayer and two Bible devotions I do every morning. Most everyone would agree that was good. However, I was in downtown Philadelphia yesterday and I must have walked by 50 homeless people asking for help. I didn’t help any. I didn’t give them money, food, my coat, nothing. I have given money and food in the past and I have the financial resources to hand out blankets every day, but I didn’t yesterday. I could forego lunch and working out and instead hand out Bible tracts, but I don’t. How could that not be a failure to work to the best of my ability?

Really, the question is: “When are good works good enough?” I can’t see how my works will ever be. How can anyone be confident that they have done everything to the best of their ability? In fact, instead of trying to learn and share on ChristianForums.com, shouldn’t we be out evangelizing, caring for the sick, or (the list is infinite).

 

[Danthemailman]

That, right there, is why I can’t wrap my mind around good works being a requirement for salvation.

What is the best of my ability? I can always do more.

Exactly! In regards to, "do what we can to the best of our ability," such a person could never know for sure if they did "enough" works and that is the whole deception! This kind of mindset demonstrates trusting in one's "performance/works" for salvation, rather than trusting in Christ alone for salvation.

My wife grew up in the RLDS church (similar to LDS church on the doctrine of salvation) and I remember the elders at her church constantly quoting 2 Nephi 25:23 in the Book of Mormon (and stressing the bolded part below) which reads - "For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do."

In other words do all you can or else the Lord will not be able to save you. Clearly a case of "performance based" works salvation. IN CONTRAST God's Word says in Ephesians 2:8,9 - For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

 

[Just_a_Christian]

Intentionally.

God gave us marriage as a picture of our relationship to God. THink about being married and some of the things you could do that would seriously hurt that relationship. Or end it.

Then do a study (mostly OT) of the sins that would either get one killed or “cut off.” Those are the sins that seriously damage our relationship to God. Intentionally and habitually doing those eventually will end with us being cut off from salvation.

At least that is how I see it.

I'm not trying to put you on the spot, brother. Maybe I needed to clarify. The habitual speeder, became a Christian before 16. Do you think the Christian is in trouble spiritually?

I have another question for you. How do you reconcile these two scriptures?
1. Therefore we must progress beyond the elementary instructions about Christ and move on to maturity, not laying this foundation again: repentance from dead works and faith in God,teaching about baptisms, laying on of hands, resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment.And this is what we intend to do, if God permits.For it is impossible in the case of those who have once been enlightened, tasted the heavenly gift, become partakers of the Holy Spirit,tasted the good word of God and the miracles of the coming age,and then have committed apostasy, to renew them again to repentance, since they are crucifying the Son of God for themselves all over again and holding him up to contempt. - Hebrews 6:1-6

2. Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins. - James 5:19-20

 

[Dave-W]

I'm not trying to put you on the spot, brother. Maybe I needed to clarify. The habitual speeder, became a Christian before 16. Do you think the Christian is in trouble spiritually?

Perhaps, but not in danger of losing salvation.

If you were a parent and you had a son who habitually did something you have told him time and time again to NOT do, are you going to disown him and throw him out of the house? No - you would discipline him, maybe severely.

Hebrews 12:6
For those whom the Lord loves He disciplines, And He scourges every son whom He receives.”

 

[Dave-W]

I have another question for you. How do you reconcile these two scriptures?

There seems to be a point where we resist God so much we become so hard that He does eventually disown us.

The James passage is talking about someone not yet at that point, where the Hebrews passage is talking about going past that point.

 

[fhansen]

Maintaining One's Salvation Status

Many of the "Salvation by faith in works" Christian have proposed that one is "initially saved" by faith alone, but then must maintain their salvation status by living up to some standard of performance to be "finally saved", thus making salvation out to be contingent upon one's performance. Thus one's trust is in their own performance to "finally" saved them, which is salvation by faith in works.

But the point I wish to make and discuss is the inherent contradiction in terms of their initial premise - parsing "initial" salvation from "final" salvation. Can it be said that a person "has been saved" from going to hell if that fate is dependent upon his ongoing performance? No, logically it cannot be said.

One could logically say, based on their premise, that a person, having "believed" has the possibility of being saved, contingent upon whether he lives up to it, but under such a soteriology one cannot make the statement using the prefect tense -

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith— and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast." Eph 2:8,9

Perfect tenses can be used as hyperbole, and I seriously doubt that anyone believes that everyone hearing Paul's words in Eph 2 are necessarily saved, so those words don't have some sort of universal application to begin with. Aside from that Scripture uses various tenses for salvation: saved, being saved, will be saved.

In any case the Church has always taught that salvation is worked out after first being justified, cleansed, made new, etc. We must maintain that just status, we must "invest" our "talents", we must remain faithful, remain in Christ, pick up our cross and follow Him. We must do the best we can with whatever we're given: time, knowledge, revelation, grace, with more expected from those given more. Luke 12:48

 

[JacksBratt]

That, right there, is why I can’t wrap my mind around good works being a requirement for salvation.

What is the best of my ability? I can always do more.

The best of "our" ability is far short of anything close to what is necessary for salvation.

After being saved, the things we do that are good are by the desire and strength given by God.

Even those who are not "saved" or don't even believe in God... the good things they do are from the morals and goodness placed on their heart, by God, from the beginning.

 

[Just_a_Christian]

I have asked this question, or one very similar to it, many times.

The answer is:

Romans 8:1-2 King James Version (KJV)
8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

I take it you are attempting to say that Romans 8:1-2 proves a faith only salvation.
1. There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
....no condemnation to those who are IN Christ Jesus. Many people overlook this small but crucial word IN. How does one get to this state of being IN Christ? Only through baptism do we get into Christ.

For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. - Galatians 3:27-28

Romans 8:2
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Those who are IN Christ are no longer bound to the old law of sin and death because those IN Christ have continual forgiveness of sins as long as we walk in the light.

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. - 1 John 1:7
Consider the folliwing scrioture.
As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; - Colossians 2:6-13
If we be IN Him we have the spiritual circumcision through being baptised into Christ. We crucify the old man of sin in baptism and God gives life (quickened) with Him, having been forgiven all of our trespasses through baptism.

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. - Acts 2:38-39

And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord. - Acts 22:16

 

[Just_a_Christian]

There seems to be a point where we resist God so much we become so hard that He does eventually disown us.

The James passage is talking about someone not yet at that point, where the Hebrews passage is talking about going past that point.

I agree, can we know we've past that point or when others have? Is it simply if you're willing to repent one hasn't forfeited redemption? I know God has said that after spurning the Spirit continually at some point God gives you over to a reprobate mind.
I believe we are on the same page...
In Him, brother

 

[Bible Highlighter]

That, right there, is why I can’t wrap my mind around good works being a requirement for salvation. What is the best of my ability? I can always do more.

As a part of inheriting eternal life, the lawyer said to Jesus (according to the Scriptures) that we are to love God with all our heart, with all our soul, and with all our strength, and with all our mind, and to love our neighbor as ourself. Jesus did not correct the lawyer by saying, "Wrong lawyer!" "Merely believe on me and you will inherit eternal life." However, Jesus did not say that. Jesus actually said, "You have answered right, do this, and you shall live."

For it is written,

25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, "Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?"
26 He said unto him, "What is written in the law? How do you read it?"
27 And he answering said, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself."
28 And he said unto him, "You have answered right, do this, and you shall live." (Luke 10:25-28).
​

The Eternal Security Proponent or Belief Alone type believer would give a different answer than Jesus in regards to the lawyer's statement here. They would accuse of him works heresy (When this is not the reality of what actually happened in that situation). But the point here is we are to love God with ALL of heart, mind, soul, and strength. Jesus admits that doing this is a part of eternal life and that by doing so, you will live. Now, you may want to change the words of Jesus here because they do not fit your life, but I would not advise it. I would encourage that you stick to following Jesus (according to what God's Word says and not what your Pastor says or some favorite online preacher of yours says).

Also, Paul says we are to offer our bodies as a living sacrifice, holy, and acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. We are not to be like this world but we must be transformed by the renewing of our mind so as to prove that which is good, acceptable, and PERFECT will of God is.

1 "I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God." (Romans 12:1-2).
​

Here are some other verses by Paul for you to consider:

"Neither yield your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God." (Romans 6:13).

"Furthermore then we beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as you have received of us how you ought to walk and to please God, so you would abound more and more." (1 Thessalonians 4:1).

"That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honor;" (1 Thessalonians 4:4).

"For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness." (1 Thessalonians 4:7).
​

I started off yesterday with prayer and two Bible devotions I do every morning. Most everyone would agree that was good.

As long as we are not boasting about how we pray, and we are keeping our prayer life more private than trying to be seen by others or so as to tell others (See Matthew 6:5-13), it is good to pray so as to draw closer to God and to love our neighbor.

It is also good that we study God's Word.

2 Timothy 2:15 says,
"Study to show yourself approved unto God, a workman that needs not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."​

However, I was in downtown Philadelphia yesterday and I must have walked by 50 homeless people asking for help. I didn’t help any. I didn’t give them money, food, my coat, nothing. I have given money and food in the past and I have the financial resources to hand out blankets every day, but I didn’t yesterday. I could forego lunch and working out and instead hand out Bible tracts, but I don’t. How could that not be a failure to work to the best of my ability?

I believe the rest of Luke 10 answers this. So continuing in where we left off in Luke 10, it says:

28 And he said unto him, "You have answered right, do this, and you shall live."
29 But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, "And who is my neighbor?"
30 And Jesus answering said, "A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead.
31 And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.
32 And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side.
33 But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him,
34 And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.
35 And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatever you spends more, when I come again, I will repay you.
36 Which now of these three, do you think was a neighbor unto him that fell among the thieves?
36 Which now of these three, do you think was a neighbor unto him that fell among the thieves?
37 And he said, "He that showed mercy on him." Then said Jesus unto him, "Go, and do likewise."​

Notice, Jesus did not say, it is impossible to help all the poor, so why I even try. Jesus's lesson here is that we are to help when we see someone suffering. This is a part of loving our neighbor which is tied to inheriting eternal life. In fact, Matthew 25:31-46 makes this fact even more clear. Our helping the poor in this life is a part of inheriting the Kingdom of God (or eternal life). Those who did not help the poor were said to be cast into everlasting fire. The good news is that we can seek forgiveness with the Lord Jesus Christ and be cleansed of our old sinful ways, and He can change us into the kind of person who is loving and good always. But we have to cooperate with the good work the Lord desires to do in our life. Paul says,

"Examine yourselves, whether you are in the faith; prove your own selves. Know you not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except you be reprobates?" (2 Corinthians 13:5).​

The way we can have an assurance in knowing the Lord (Who is the source of our salvation) and if He abides in us is if we find that we are keeping His commandments.

3 "And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that says, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." (1 John 2:3-4).​

Really, the question is: “When are good works good enough?” I can’t see how my works will ever be. How can anyone be confident that they have done everything to the best of their ability?

You are suggesting that we do nothing because we cannot possibly do enough. But the Bible says this:

"14 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man traveling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.
15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.
16 Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.
17 And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.
18 But he that had received one went and dug in the earth, and hid his lord’s money.
19 After a long time the lord of those servants comes, and reckons with them.
20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought another five talents, saying, Lord, you delivered unto me five talents; Behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.
21 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant, you have been faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things, enter into the joy of your lord.
22 He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, you delivered unto me two talents, behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.
23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; you have been faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things, enter into the joy of your lord.
24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew that you are an hard man, reaping where you have not sown, and gathering where you have not scattered seed,
25 And I was afraid, and went and hid your talent in the earth, lo, there you have that is yours.
26 His lord answered and said unto him, You wicked and slothful servant, you knew that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not scattered seed:
27 You ought therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
29 For unto every one that has shall be given, and he shall have abundance, but from him that has not shall be taken away even that which he has.
30 And cast the unprofitable servant into outer darkness; There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 25:14-30).​

In fact, instead of trying to learn and share on ChristianForums.com, shouldn’t we be out evangelizing, caring for the sick, or (the list is infinite).

Jesus said to Peter that he will make him a fisher of men. If you teach just 5 people to learn how to fish, your efforts are more beneficial than trying to do all the fishing yourself. We are a body of believers for a reason. In fact, Jesus said to Peter that if he loved him, feed the sheep. The sheep are the brethren, and feeding them is teaching them the Word of God and helping them to obey it. For we are to preach the gospel and to MAKE disciples of all nations. To be a disciple is to follow Jesus in what He commands of us.

24 "Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it, and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?" (Matthew 16:24-26).
​

We as believers are to have a balance in our life in loving God and in loving others to the fullest capacity we are given by the Lord.

"A just weight and balance are the LORD'S: all the weights of the bag are his work." (Proverbs 16:11).​

For we can do nothing without Jesus Christ.

"I am the vine, you are the branches: He that abides in me, and I in him, the same brings forth much fruit: for without me you can do nothing." (John 15:5).​

I hope this helps;
And may God bless you this fine day that the Lord has made.

​

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Can you give some specific examples of good works that we are required to do in order to maintain salvation?

And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.” (Luke 10:25-28).

“...if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.” (Matthew 19:17-19).

"And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me." (Matthew 10:38).

"...No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God." (Luke 9:62).

“Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.” (Matthew 5:8).

”And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.” (Revelation 22:12-15).

”Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.” (Matthew 25:34-40).

“Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.” (Matthew 25:41-46).

 

[bcbsr]

In any case the Church has always taught that salvation is worked out after first being justified

"worked out", not "worked for". Having been saved and eternally secure, the saved work out applications of their faith. This in contrast to salvation by works churches who reject the gospel and teach falsely that one much work for their salvation.

 

[Oldmantook]

Maintaining One's Salvation Status

Many of the "Salvation by faith in works" Christian have proposed that one is "initially saved" by faith alone, but then must maintain their salvation status by living up to some standard of performance to be "finally saved", thus making salvation out to be contingent upon one's performance. Thus one's trust is in their own performance to "finally" saved them, which is salvation by faith in works.

But the point I wish to make and discuss is the inherent contradiction in terms of their initial premise - parsing "initial" salvation from "final" salvation. Can it be said that a person "has been saved" from going to hell if that fate is dependent upon his ongoing performance? No, logically it cannot be said.

One could logically say, based on their premise, that a person, having "believed" has the possibility of being saved, contingent upon whether he lives up to it, but under such a soteriology one cannot make the statement using the prefect tense -

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith— and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast." Eph 2:8,9

That is why the whole of scripture in various places describes salvation in the past, present and future tenses - as it is a process, not restricted to just a past event.