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Rather depends, doesn't it? All the rabbis I've known (total of two, actually) believe Jesus was a really wise man, end of. I happen to think their opinion is for the birds.A Rabbi's input isn't irrelevant.
We tend to assume the worst about judgment. Everyone will be judged. One of the options for any judgement is mercy. Jesus said... "Everyone will be salted with fire." - Mark 9:49 NIVWe are appointed once to die and then the judgment. We are not afforded twice to consider ourselves dead to sin, once on this side of life, and another for the other side of life (or downgraded life).
Well, what do you think as a universalist, that even Satan himself will eventually be redeemed?(The Old One), you assume God will torture, forever, unrepentant sinners. That is not an established fact; therefore, you are speaking for God.
Let's see how good your German is, Der Alte:
Your opinion does not impugn the education of Rabbi's.Rather depends, doesn't it? All the rabbis I've known (total of two, actually) believe Jesus was a really wise man, end of. I happen to think their opinion is for the birds.
So let's put the fear of eternal hell under our feet and stamp the notion out once and for all.
What do the Jews have to do with this discussion?
Well, what do you think as a universalist, that even Satan himself will eventually be redeemed?
Ahhh. But Jesus would not have used the word Hell! The Jews spoke of Sheol "the grave", never HellBeing that Jesus was Jewish and drew His the essence of His ideas from his own culture, it only makes historical and contextual sense to understand how 1st century Jews approached their own religion.
Ahhh. But Jesus would not have used the word Hell! The Jews spoke of Sheol "the grave", never Hell
"Everyone" does not refer to believers and unbelievers alike. It is referring to believers as in being purified through suffering and persecution.We tend to assume the worst about judgment. Everyone will be judged. One of the options for any judgement is mercy. Jesus said... "Everyone will be salted with fire." - Mark 9:49 NIV
I have to noted here that under the Mosaic Law (given by God), nobody is ever tortured. The worst penalty for any crime is death. Just sayin'Well, we have a human justice system through our national and state governments. What the church claims that God is up to would be illegal on earth.
The human race is tainted by a sinful nature so it cannot be said that people are basically good. Being made alienated from Christ because he withdrew his presence in the garden was a punishment, but withdrawing his grace is not evil. We were made subject to evil because that's what it means to know good and evil of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.Whatever is good will be redeemed and whatever is evil will come to nothing because that is its nature. What that looks like is not my business; all I need is true faith and hope in the God who succeeds.
Does eternal punishment necessarily have to be infinite punishment, which would be unjust in relation to the less-than- infinite amount of sin any person could ever commit?
Suppose Hitler is allocated X units of suffering in Hell for all his crimes against humanity. He gets half of it spread out through the first trillion years. In the next trillion he gets half of the remainder, and so on ad infinitum. His total suffering summed through all infinity will be X, not infinity.
The pain will also decline to very low levels after a few cycles, down to less than one tenth of one percent of the total by the tenth period (equivalent to a bad traffic day on the freeway?) Another ten cycles and it might be down to the mosquito bite level.
However no matter how many cycles he goes through, he will never pay the debt completely. Thus the punishment has to continue for eternity.
The human race is tainted by a sinful nature so it cannot be said that people are basically good. Being made alienated from Christ because he withdrew his presence in the garden was a punishment, but withdrawing his grace is not evil. We were made subject to evil because that's what it means to know good and evil of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
Well, what do you think as a universalist, that even Satan himself will eventually be redeemed?
....No, NOOOOOOO! Don't ask that!
It's an interesting idea! I don't think it's plausible though because of all the "universalist" passages such as 1 Corinthians 15:22 "for as all die in Adam, so all will be made alive in Christ" and, also, does anyone pay their debt completely?
Most Christians probably believe that Hitler would be spared his X-suffering if he had become a Christian before he died but this would not have actually paid his debt off. Can we ever really make full amends for the damage we do to one another?
Universalism actually takes sin more seriously than Infernalism because it takes scripture literally when it says that we will all be salted with fire, i.e. we will all go through a probably painful process of purification in the next age/aion, and labeling oneself a Christian won't avoid that.
I omitted the media I don't do videos. Might get an unwanted bug. The title is "The egg of Satan." I assume nothing. I quote scripture. I beleive Jesus when He said, "eternal punishment."(The Old One), you assume God will torture, forever, unrepentant sinners. That is not an established fact; therefore, you are speaking for God.
Let's see how good your German is, Der Alte:
Amen. God is not a man that he should lie.Once you're saved you're always saved because it's a promise of God. God is so holy that he could not break his promise.
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