Losing the fear of an eternal hell

[Lost Witness]

these [on His left] shall go

where did {on his left} originate from?

 

[Der Alte]

where did {on his left} originate from?

Have you ever read Matthew 25:46?

Matthew 25:41-46
(41) Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
(42) For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
(43) I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
(44) Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
(45) Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
(46) And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.​

I did not quote the entire passage before but inserted [on His left] from vs. 41.

 

[Lost Witness]

Have you ever read Matthew 25:46?

Matthew 25:41-46​

(41) Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:​

(42) For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:​

(43) I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.​

(44) Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?​

(45) Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.​

(46) And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.​

I did not quote the entire passage before but inserted [on His left] from vs. 41.

i have a bad memory and used google for reference and it was matthew 25:41 i only really read matthew 25:45+ while referencing

 

[Saint Steven]

To reiterate, I don’t think fearing an eternal hell is always a bad thing. ...

The end justifies the means? Wow. Since when?

 

[Saint Steven]

Fearing hell may lead someone to humble themselves to the savior, if they hear about their sin and understand their need for the savior.

Don't you mean understand their need for a Get-Out-Of-Hell-Free card?
That would be their primary need if "hell' is "leading" them to Christ.

What I would call spiritual extortion. An offer we can't refuse.
Thus turning our loving heavenly Father into a gangster godfather.

"Receive the free gift of eternal life today. Or if you prefer, you will be incinerated." (feel the love)

 

[Der Alte]

i have a bad memory and used google for reference and it was matthew 25:41 i only really read matthew 25:45+ while referencing

I apologize for being a little curt in my first response. I made a faulty assumption.

 

[didactics]

Don't you mean understand their need for a Get-Out-Of-Hell-Free card?
That would be their primary need if "hell' is "leading" them to Christ.

What I would call spiritual extortion. An offer we can't refuse.
Thus turning our loving heavenly Father into a gangster godfather.

"Receive the free gift of eternal life today. Or if you prefer, you will be incinerated." (feel the love)

That's an interesting way to put it. However, my understanding is that it has to do with God's holiness. Jesus as the sin-bearer demonstrates the holiness of God. He couldn't bring anyone to heaven, fully restored and be just, in just any way he wanted. When Paul in Athens "stood in the midst of the Areopagus" he concluded with this, "because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead." (Ac 17:31) If sinners reject God here, he rejects them there (hell) and sends them to it. They choose to live ungodly lives; he confirmed their choice - forever.

I'm not going to lie, I struggle a little with cognitive dissonance, but I can't help but wonder if it's because I'm inclined to be selfish. After all, none of us deserve to have God's favor and there is nothing we can offer him, nothing he needs from us. If God justly sends sinners to hell, who am I to call foul? If he didn't send his Son to die on a cross, we would all end up in hell and that still wouldn't make God unfair.

 

[Hmm]

I'm not going to lie, I struggle a little with cognitive dissonance, but I can't help but wonder if it's because I'm inclined to be selfish.

Why would that cause cognitive dissonance? Do you not think it's caused by your following belief:

If God justly sends sinners to hell, who am I to call foul?

I don't know if you remember when you first accepted the belief that everlasting punishment is just and a time, perhaps when you were a child, when you didn't and would have been instinctively repelled by the idea. I imagine that on some level you are holding both beliefs in your head and that's where your cognitive dissonance lies.

 

[Lost Witness]

Don't you mean understand their need for a Get-Out-Of-Hell-Free card?
That would be their primary need if "hell' is "leading" them to Christ.

What I would call spiritual extortion. An offer we can't refuse.
Thus turning our loving heavenly Father into a gangster godfather.

"Receive the free gift of eternal life today. Or if you prefer, you will be incinerated." (feel the love)

 

[FineLinen]

That is an interesting observation, that both the sheep and goats are clean animals.

It is a fact. Futhermore, the 10 virgins are pure virgins, 5 lacking oil, but virgins.

 

[Saint Steven]

I'm not going to lie, I struggle a little with cognitive dissonance, but I can't help but wonder if it's because I'm inclined to be selfish. After all, none of us deserve to have God's favor and there is nothing we can offer him, nothing he needs from us. If God justly sends sinners to hell, who am I to call foul? If he didn't send his Son to die on a cross, we would all end up in hell and that still wouldn't make God unfair.

Thanks for your thoughtful and complete response. I appreciate you.
I quoted the second half of your post. I was struck by your honesty and candor.
I may go back and address the first half as well.

What I find interesting, and which helps solve the cognitive dissonance I used to live with on this subject, is that if we attributed this alleged behavior of God on a man, he would be considered the worst tyrant in all of human history. But since it is leveled at God, we feel compelled to just accept it, or else! (or else what?) Something far removed from love. So... what to do, what to do... ???

Therefore, I reject the idea that God operates at a LOWER standard of morality than he expects of us. The one who taught us to love our enemies should not be incinerating his own. This is easy to understand, unless you were raised in the church. What's wrong with this picture?

And along with this twisted view of God comes a twisted view of our own lack of value. On one hand we understand that the Father gave his only-begotten to ransom us back to Himself, but on the other hand conclude that we are worthless and undeserving of his grace. I'll ask again, what's wrong with this picture?

The Bible tells us that the very hairs of our head are numbered, and that a sparrow does not fall without his notice, and that we are more value than many sparrows to him. And the Good Shepherd leaves the ninety-nine to go after the one who has wandered away. Why not just let the sinful ingrate go? Did they not choose, of their own free will, to sin and wander off? Fortunately that's not how it works, unless you buy what the church is feeding us. So, I'll ask again, what's wrong with this picture?

 

[Saint Steven]

That's an interesting way to put it. However, my understanding is that it has to do with God's holiness. Jesus as the sin-bearer demonstrates the holiness of God. He couldn't bring anyone to heaven, fully restored and be just, in just any way he wanted. When Paul in Athens "stood in the midst of the Areopagus" he concluded with this, "because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead." (Ac 17:31) If sinners reject God here, he rejects them there (hell) and sends them to it. They choose to live ungodly lives; he confirmed their choice - forever.

It has helped me to better understand the dynamic of the atonement (of which there are several views) as Christ paying THE DEATH PENALTY for our sin. (sorry for the CAPITAL letters, I'm not shouting, just trying to clarify) See the Brad Jersak video link below for a better explanation than I can provide.

All this to say that I believe our standing with God is not determined by what we have done, but by what Christ has done on our behalf. (Romans 5:18-19)

Saint Steven said:

Don't you mean understand their need for a Get-Out-Of-Hell-Free card?
That would be their primary need if "hell' is "leading" them to Christ.

What I would call spiritual extortion. An offer we can't refuse.
Thus turning our loving heavenly Father into a gangster godfather.

"Receive the free gift of eternal life today. Or if you prefer, you will be incinerated." (feel the love)

Enjoy this interview with Brad Jersak where he discusses many questions like when salvation occurs, why did Jesus have to die, where did death come from, what did the early church believe about the after-life, etc.

 

[Hmm]

What are you accusing me of?

Of not being him I guess

 

[FreeinChrist]

ADVISOR HAT​

This thread is closed for staff review.
​

 

[tampasteve]

ADMIN HAT ON

This thread is now open again. Please keep posts on topic and within the rules.

ADMIN HAT OFF​

 

[Der Alte]

It has helped me to better understand the dynamic of the atonement (of which there are several views) as Christ paying THE DEATH PENALTY for our sin. (sorry for the CAPITAL letters, I'm not shouting, just trying to clarify) See the Brad Jersak video link below for a better explanation than I can provide.
All this to say that I believe our standing with God is not determined by what we have done, but by what Christ has done on our behalf. (Romans 5:18-19)
Saint Steven said:
Don't you mean understand their need for a Get-Out-Of-Hell-Free card?
That would be their primary need if "hell' is "leading" them to Christ.
What I would call spiritual extortion. An offer we can't refuse.
Thus turning our loving heavenly Father into a gangster godfather.
"Receive the free gift of eternal life today. Or if you prefer, you will be incinerated." (feel the love)
* * *

If accepting Christ and being saved while still alive is "a get-out-of-hell-Free card" what would you call a sinner dying and being saved at death and thus escaping hell? Is that not also "a get-out-of-hell-Free card?"

 

[Hmm]

If accepting Christ and being saved while still alive is "a get-out-of-hell-Free card" what would you call a sinner dying and being saved at death and thus escaping hell? Is that not also "a get-out-of-hell-Free card?"

Have you been at the Monopoly board again DA?

 

[Der Alte]

Have you been at the Monopoly board again DA?

No. But I did appear before the parole board.