Losing the fear of an eternal hell

[Saint Steven]

Ah, that's my naivete in the use of quotes with this site, I apologize. I think i see now how to correctly quote.

That worked much better, thanks. Much appreciated.

 

[Saint Steven]

Thank you so much for your questions. I'm actually here to bring fire to what I've built on the foundation. I'd rather see it here than on the day where we will experience great loss or reward. 1 Corinthians 3:13

Very good.
In your perspective, what qualifies as wood, hay and stubble?

 

[Hmm]

UR is a very threatening thing to them. For those who don't understand it, as soon as the word Universalism is mentioned their hackles are up and they are in attack mode, armed with a caricature of what they think it is about. (blatant and unapologetic ignorance) Ironically, they view it as a salvation issue, but I do not. So, the stage is set.

Unlike you, I've never believed in ECT so I'm not speaking from personal experience, so no doubt I shouldn't say anything, as advised above, but... If I imagine believing in ECT, or thinking I believe in it, I think there will also be a part of me that doesn't believe it, because of the glaring contradiction between Jesus and a torturer, which couldn't be more clear. If I had been told from a young age that I had to believe in it or I wouldn't be a true Christian, as often seems to be the case and was your own experience, I imagine I'd try to suppress my natural doubts and try hard to believe in it. The problem then is that if I come across arguments against ECT or encounter people who are at ease with their doubts or outright dismissal of the idea, I'm going to feel threatened. The psychological mechanism at work (INHO) is that because I'm trying to suppress the doubts in myself, when I hear them expressed by others I feel compelled to suppress that too, usually by shouting it down.

I am under no compulsion to convert anyone, as I said, I don't view it is a salvation issue.

Me too. I think one of the joys of UR is that it takes this pressure away. I genuinely think that if I believed the vast majority of the word - or even one person come to that - is going to an eternal hell, I would have some kind of breakdown. And this has happened to people so I make no apology for my views.

 

[Kent M]

"There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear; for fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not reached perfection in love." 1 John 4:18

Jesus we the infinite breadth and length and height of God’s love for us. That's why the Bible urges us to fully embrace our faith because only then can we begin to trust and rest in God's love. "There is no fear in love."

The name "Noah" comes from the Hebrew word "Noach" which means "rest" or "repose", and perhaps resting in God's love is the true meaning of embarking on God's Ark.

Fear robs us of our assurance of God’s love. Every time we doubt His love we step into the realm of fear, and our relationship with God is stolen from us. And this is all that we get from the concept of Eternal Conscious Torment (ECT). The gift that keeps on giving /s.

So don't be afraid that God is going to torment or throw us in a literal lake of fire. He's not that sort of guy. He is as He is in Jesus so we can confidently throw such fears away.

"Indeed, I have given you authority to tread on snakes and scorpions and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing will hurt you." Luke 10:19.

So let's put the fear of eternal hell under our feet and stamp the notion out once and for all.

 

[didactics]

That's a lot of back-pedaling... what's your point?
I hope there is some delicious lemon pie under all that meringue. (must be lunch time - LOL)

In case you can't remember what we were talking about (I can't either) let's address this. (thanks)

Should we really be about the business of attempting to divide the church into what we judge to be true or false converts? Or can we find more edifying things to do with one another? (1 Thessalonians 5:11)

My point is to look at a specific passage that deals with false disciples. We could look at other passages that deal with different kinds of false converts, but I thought about this passage first.

 

[Kent M]

Jesus spoke of the existence of Hell perhaps more than any other of His teachings.. "..as you did it not to one of the least of these you did it not to me. And they shall go away into eternal punishment." (Mt.25:45-46) "And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go to HELL." Jesus does not "throw people into Hell' By the way we live our lives Heaven or Hell is our choice. WE choose Heaven or Hell. So .."choose life then, that you and your descendants may live." (Deut 30:19)

 

[lismore]

Very good.
In your perspective, what qualifies as wood, hay and stubble?

Perhaps that passage speaks to motivation- selfless or selfish service. God Bless

 

[Kent M]

Perhaps that passage speaks to motivation- selfless or selfish service. God Bless

 

[Hmm]

Jesus spoke of the existence of Hell perhaps more than any other of His teachings.. "..as you did it not to one of the least of these you did it not to me. And they shall go away into eternal punishment." (Mt.25:45-46) "And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go to HELL." Jesus does not "throw people into Hell' By the way we live our lives Heaven or Hell is our choice. WE choose Heaven or Hell. So .."choose life then, that you and your descendants may live." (Deut 30:19)

You are looking at English translations. If the keywords here were accurately translated then, of course, I would be forced to agree with you, but fortunately for both of us I'm sure, they're not. The correct meaning of these words has been alluded to earlier in this thread but have been more extensively dealt with in most of the longer universalist threads. Or just google "aionios kolais" if you like surprises. This would be a good start for you.

 

[Kent M]

"Whoever hears my Word..will cross into eternal life" What about those who do NOT hear and obey Jesus' Word? They cross into eternal death..Hell. "Depart from Me you accursed. into the Eternal Fire.." (Matt.25:41)

 

[Hmm]

"Whoever hears my Word..will cross into eternal life" What about those who do NOT hear and obey Jesus' Word? They cross into eternal death..Hell. "Depart from Me you accursed. into the Eternal Fire.." (Matt.25:41)

If you don't want to do the simple bit of research I suggested, that's your choice of course. It's not my problem.

 

[Kent M]

Watch Father Pacawah of EWTN. He has mastered Latin, Hebrew and Aramaic..the language of Jesus and the Apostles. He concludes there is a Hell and a Heaven. The Magesterium of the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church personally founded by Jesus Christ 2,000 years ago..teaches that there is Hell and there is Heaven. Do you not believe in Hell..or do you not want to surrender a sin?

 

[David Lowery]

Very good.
In your perspective, what qualifies as wood, hay and stubble?

I've been waiting a very long time for someone to ask.

You are the temple of God. (1 Corinthians 3:16). Christ is the foundation and the temple is built on top of the foundation, precept by precept, line by line, here a little, there a little; one inhabits the word. The one who seeks him diligently, finds him and is given great wealth, that is, knowledge and understanding of the kingdom so one may enter into His courts as one in agreement with Him and an inheritor of the kingdom.

The gold, silver and precious gems are the understanding given by God as it is written: who, on finding one pearl of great value, went and sold all that he had and bought it. (Matthew 13:46) For this is wisdom given by heaven. The wood, hay and stubble is what man himself has built. For it is written: That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. (John 3:6) and again: But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness unto him; neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. (1 Corinthians 2:14) and again: Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. (Romans 8:7)

The seven-fold Spirit goes out into the earth (Revelation 5:6) and by His 7 aspects (Isaiah 11:2-3), man comes into agreement with the word.

And the world is passing away along with its desires, but whoever does the will of God abides forever. (1 John 2:17) Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away. (Matthew 24:35)

Those not found in His words and inhabiting His understanding, led by Spirit, the day will disclose it and their works will be worthless. For everything of this world is removed and everything in Him, is made new and is eternal. We are made thru Him and for Him, so, that what is not of Him will pass away.

A form of this fire comes thru inquiry, for if I do not speak truth, it will have no life in it.

 

[Kent M]

"But as for cowards, the unfaithful, the depraved..murderers, fornicators..their lot shall be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death." (Rev.21:8)

 

[David Lowery]

"But as for cowards, the unfaithful, the depraved..murderers, fornicators..their lot shall be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death." (Rev.21:8)

Who leads that whole ragtag bunch? The cowards. Lord, let us not be led in fear of the enemy's report but in fear of ever departing your house.

 

[SavedSinner777]

According to Adventists, all the passages in the Bible which have been misconstrued to support the doctrine of eternal conscious torment in hell actually refer to the annihilation of the wicked by fire on judgment day.

Is Hell Real? | Hell Truth

Adventists don't believe that an all-loving God would send His creation to eternal conscious torment for finite sins, although we do believe there will be punishment on the last day. Each person will be judged and their level of punishment or reward will be based on how they lived from the light they received. (Luke 12:48)

 

[FineLinen]

Why on earth would there ever be a distinction of false converts and true ones in the Bible? Some may profess that Jesus is Lord but not by practice. He always leads people to Christ's lordship (the believers). They "have the mind of Christ." (cf. 1 Co 2:16)

Make no mistake, every knee bows In the Name of Jesus. Every dimension of the heavens, the earth and the underworld ultimately resounds in worship of the Master of reconciliation.

Not many, not the malista only: the all.

 

[didactics]

Make no mistake, every knee bows In the Name of Jesus. Every dimension of the heavens, the earth and the underworld ultimately resounds in worship of the Master of reconciliation.

Not many, not the malista only: the all.

Who says those in the underworld worship him? I suppose acknowledgment of his lordship is a kind of worship but no one can truly love God apart from his electing grace, saving grace. To acknowledge Christ's lordship on this side of life, that is made evident in the life of a believer.

 

[FineLinen]

Who says those in the underworld worship him?

Are you familiar with the Apostle Paul?

The Scripture declares the heavens, earth, and underworld.

The all!

 

[shepherdsword]

UR is a very threatening thing to them. For those who don't understand it, as soon as the word Universalism is mentioned their hackles are up and they are in attack mode, armed with (blatant and unapologetic ignorance) a caricature of what they think it is about. Ironically, they view it as a salvation issue, but I do not. So, the stage is set.

I have a lot of respect for those (like yourself) who will take the time to learn to understand UR from our perspective. (translation: thanks for getting WOKE to "our" superior enlightenment) I am under no compulsion to convert anyone, as I said, I don't view it is a salvation issue. Everyone is already saved by Christ's completed work on our behalf. It's not about us, never was. Not to say that we don't need to work out our salvation, we do. But...

It's not that UR is of any threat to those of us who don't subscribe to it on the contrary. It's a threat to some of those who DO subscribe to it. For example, if an unbeliever was on the verge of coming to Christ and he heard the error pronounced he might reconsider, thinking he would receive another chance after he died. We understand that UR turns the grace of God into lasciviousness by teaching that it doesn't matter what we do...we will still be saved at some point. This is a lie from the pit of hell and SHOULD be treated as the heretical threat it is.