- Aug 4, 2013
- 5,025
- 2,489
- 75
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Eastern Orthodox
- Marital Status
- Married
I am listening to a free audio podcast by Fr. Josiah Trenham called "Demonology - Understanding and Winning the Spiritual Battle."
I am really having a hard time with some of the things that he is saying. For instance: "If we are going to be saved, if we are going to succeed as disciples of Jesus, we need to take spiritual battle with the demons seriously."
If we are going to be saved? So salvation is not a once and done deal in which, according to the Paschal hymnody, "by death He trampled death" and the Paschal readings, that Christ "tore down the gates of Hades and emptied it." Those words sound like a done and finished deal, a victory won by the Great Warrior to free His beloved people. Yet I hear this (and many other statements from Orthodox monks and clergy) that indicate that in the end, Satan and his demons can win back what they have lost to Christ at the Cross??
That doesn't sound like victory to me and is certainly not of any comfort to me who am constantly sinning and failing God in so many ways.
It seems that there is one teaching of the Bible, another teaching of the Church, and yet another teaching of the holy monks of Athos.
BIBLE: 1 Timothy 2: 4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
1 Corinthians 15: 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
Romans 5: 18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
CHURCH: "Christ is risen from the dead, by death He trampled death, and to those in the tombs, He granted life." (Paschal Troparion)
" As God, You arose from the tomb in glory, Raising the world with Yourself. Human nature praises You as God, for death has vanished. Adam exults, O Master! Eve rejoices, for she is freed from bondage, and cries to You: You are the Giver of Resurrection to all, O Christ!" (Kontakia of the Resurrection - Tone 1)
"When Christ God, the Giver of Life, raised all of the dead from the valleys of misery with His mighty hand, He bestowed resurrection on the human race. He is the Savior of all, the Resurrection, the Life, and the God of all. (Kontakia of the Resurrction - Tone 6)
"The dominion of death can no longer hold men captive, For Christ descended, shattering and destroying its powers. Sheol is bound, while the prophets rejoice and cry: The Savior has come to those in faith. Enter, you faithful, into the resurrection! (Kontakia of the Resurrection - Tone 7)
MONKS: Perhaps the most famous of the contradictory icons known in Orthodox is the LADDER OF DIVINE ASCENT in which we see the strugglers ascending the ladder, only to be pulled off by the demons and into their eternal ruin. It is said that they lose their salvation by falling for the temptations of the evil one. This is also said of lay people who fall into sin, thus giving up their salvation for the pleasure of the world.
Here is a description of the LADDER:
I suppose the reason I am wrestling with this has a lot to do with my constant failures in the Christian life. How do I have hope that death is conquered for me if I still struggle with sin and my being appears so unchanged to me? And if the requirements for salvation are so strict, then how is anyone, other than a few monks on Mt. Athos, really saved? For instance, this morning, in the middle of the many things I have to do to take care of my wife, I simply forgot that it is Wednesday, and I had a nice plate of eggs over fried potatoes. That shows that I am spiritually lazy and inattentive to important spiritual things. The same is true with so much more in my life, such as distracted prayers, failure to gain any ground in mastering the Jesus Prayer, etc.
Quite frankly, every time I listen to or read something from the saints or monks, I am tempted to despair. From what they say, the requirements for salvation are so high and so strict one wonders if anyone will be saved. Anyway, to close this out, I'm just confused because the Fathers and the saints, whom I think are important to listen to, seem to say one thing, and the hymnody of the Church and the Scriptures seem to say something else and the contradiction has me a little nuts.
I am really having a hard time with some of the things that he is saying. For instance: "If we are going to be saved, if we are going to succeed as disciples of Jesus, we need to take spiritual battle with the demons seriously."
If we are going to be saved? So salvation is not a once and done deal in which, according to the Paschal hymnody, "by death He trampled death" and the Paschal readings, that Christ "tore down the gates of Hades and emptied it." Those words sound like a done and finished deal, a victory won by the Great Warrior to free His beloved people. Yet I hear this (and many other statements from Orthodox monks and clergy) that indicate that in the end, Satan and his demons can win back what they have lost to Christ at the Cross??
That doesn't sound like victory to me and is certainly not of any comfort to me who am constantly sinning and failing God in so many ways.
It seems that there is one teaching of the Bible, another teaching of the Church, and yet another teaching of the holy monks of Athos.
BIBLE: 1 Timothy 2: 4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
1 Corinthians 15: 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
Romans 5: 18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
CHURCH: "Christ is risen from the dead, by death He trampled death, and to those in the tombs, He granted life." (Paschal Troparion)
" As God, You arose from the tomb in glory, Raising the world with Yourself. Human nature praises You as God, for death has vanished. Adam exults, O Master! Eve rejoices, for she is freed from bondage, and cries to You: You are the Giver of Resurrection to all, O Christ!" (Kontakia of the Resurrection - Tone 1)
"When Christ God, the Giver of Life, raised all of the dead from the valleys of misery with His mighty hand, He bestowed resurrection on the human race. He is the Savior of all, the Resurrection, the Life, and the God of all. (Kontakia of the Resurrction - Tone 6)
"The dominion of death can no longer hold men captive, For Christ descended, shattering and destroying its powers. Sheol is bound, while the prophets rejoice and cry: The Savior has come to those in faith. Enter, you faithful, into the resurrection! (Kontakia of the Resurrection - Tone 7)
MONKS: Perhaps the most famous of the contradictory icons known in Orthodox is the LADDER OF DIVINE ASCENT in which we see the strugglers ascending the ladder, only to be pulled off by the demons and into their eternal ruin. It is said that they lose their salvation by falling for the temptations of the evil one. This is also said of lay people who fall into sin, thus giving up their salvation for the pleasure of the world.
Here is a description of the LADDER:
The icon shows several examples of monks that gave into temptation of sin as the demons with dark chains hoist their victims off the ladder and into hell. These battles are represented visually between the monks and their sin. Lord Nikon shows leadership through perseverance as he reaches the top rung. His inspirational position close to Christ serves as a guide to those still struggling in their journey.[3] Between the danger of climbing the ladder is a group of brothers gathered at the lower right, arms raised in prayer to the angels above in the upper left. This represents the thoughts and prayers that cut through the battlefield giving support to those on the path to heaven by way of virtue. A life based on prayer and penance as the way to salvation is the virtue they live by.
I suppose the reason I am wrestling with this has a lot to do with my constant failures in the Christian life. How do I have hope that death is conquered for me if I still struggle with sin and my being appears so unchanged to me? And if the requirements for salvation are so strict, then how is anyone, other than a few monks on Mt. Athos, really saved? For instance, this morning, in the middle of the many things I have to do to take care of my wife, I simply forgot that it is Wednesday, and I had a nice plate of eggs over fried potatoes. That shows that I am spiritually lazy and inattentive to important spiritual things. The same is true with so much more in my life, such as distracted prayers, failure to gain any ground in mastering the Jesus Prayer, etc.
Quite frankly, every time I listen to or read something from the saints or monks, I am tempted to despair. From what they say, the requirements for salvation are so high and so strict one wonders if anyone will be saved. Anyway, to close this out, I'm just confused because the Fathers and the saints, whom I think are important to listen to, seem to say one thing, and the hymnody of the Church and the Scriptures seem to say something else and the contradiction has me a little nuts.