Losing faith in "faith alone"

[Afra]

Only he did:

Luke 7:50
Jesus said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”

John 3:14-16
Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up,
that everyone who believes may have eternal life.
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,
that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life,
but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.​

John 6:40
"For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”​

When a Christian goes out and commits adultery, is that an act of loving or rejecting our Lord Jesus?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Quite confusing. Which is which.? Saved by faith or saved by works.?

Today, the Jews still "falsely" think that they will be saved from hell when they die by believing in God/YHWH and keeping His Law or Moses Law. Similarly for today's Muslims, ie by believing in Allah and keeping Muhammad Law or Sharia Law.
....... Atheists "falsely" believe they will just die and return to dust or become nothing. Buddhists "falsely" believe they will die and be reincarnated/reborn according to their meritorious deeds until they reach nirvana/enlightenment.

Christians "truly" think that they will be saved from hell when they die by believing in God, who is also Jesus Christ(= God-in-the-flesh) or the Word and the Spirit(= God-in-the-Spirit) - JOHN.1:1 & 14, 1TIMOTHY.3:16, JOHN.6:63, 2COR.3:17.

There is a stark difference between the objective faith of the Jews and Christians wrt the way to heaven or salvation, ie the Jews did not believe that Jesus was the Christ/Messiah, was God-in-the-flesh and was the only way to heaven or salvation - cf; JOHN.14:6. The Jews thought that they were going to heaven by believing in God/YHWH and keeping Moses Law, which was only true Before Christ, ie no longer true After Christ.(LUKE.16:19-31, MATTHEW.17:3 & 27:52, 1PETER.3:19 & 4:6)

Paul and James were at loggerheads. James, the "biological" brother of Jesus Christ was the bishop of Jerusalem and the leader of the Judaizers, a group of Jewish Christians, who had demanded that new Gentile Christians converted by apostle Paul(= ACTS.9:15) be required to also keep Moses Law, eg be circumcised. Paul responded by saying that this burdensome requirement was not necessary as salvation was based solely on faith in Jesus Christ(eg JOHN.3:16) and not on the works of the Law - GALATIANS.2:9-17.
....... Luckily, this controversy was resolved in Paul's favor at ACTS.15:24-29, ie Gentile Christians were not required to keep all of Moses Law. They only have to keep the non-burdensome parts of Moses Law, with the understanding that doing so would only give them a better and longer life on earth. The gift of salvation or the kingdom of heaven when they die comes solely through faith in Jesus Christ.

IOW, Gentile Christians unburdenly keep the Law, in order to be blessed by God with earthly goodness and not in order to be saved from hell when they leave this earth or die.(cf; 1COR.5:5, LUKE.23:43)
....... The Book of James implies that Christians have to do the works of the Law, in order to be saved from hell.

If, for whatever reasons, an ignorant Christian go and break the Law or sin, eg commit murder, adultery, rape, stealing, cheating/lying, sorcery, idolatry, blasphemy, etc, he/she will then suffer the curses/punishments of God or His agents. While in suffering, eg cancer, imprisonment, etc, he/she may lose faith in Jesus Christ/God = may curse God/Jesus and die = lose his/her salvation. Why take the risk.? (cf; MATTHEW.19:16-23, 1COR.6:9-11)

There is no confusion.

Paul was refuting the concept of how we are not saved by Man Directed Works Alone-ism in Ephesians 2:8-9 and Titus 3:5.

Ephesians 2:10 and James 2:17-18 and James 2:24 is saying that AFTER we are saved by God's grace by coming to the Lord Jesus by faith (seeking His forgiveness and believing in his death and resurrection for salvation), we progress on to the next step or stage of the salvation process which is Sanctification (i.e. God directed good works done through us).

“...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth” (2 Thessalonians 2:13).

Not sure you understand what this above verse says, but it says that God has chosen us to salvation through two things here.

#1. Belief of the truth (i.e. Jesus is the truth - See John 14:6).
#2. Sanctification of the Spirit (i.e. Holy living by the power of the Spirit).

For without holiness, no man shall see the Lord (See Hebrews 12:14).
For Jesus says not everyone who says unto me Lord, Lord will enter the Kingdom of Heaven but he that does the will of the Father (Matthew 7:21).
The will of the Father (or God) is our Sanctification or to live holy (See 1 Thessalonians 4:3).

 

[fhansen]

Here is a question I have posed elsewhere that has not yet been addressed:

Why are all commandments found in the New Testament, with the exception of belief, considered "works", but belief is not? Is believing not submitting to the command that we believe? Why then is belief considered the only requirement for salvation, when it appears together with other commands (i.e. "He who believes and is baptized")?

Is it your obedience to the command to believe that saves you, or is it the power behind the belief, which is the fact that Jesus Christ is the Son of the living God?

I cannot understand how one arrives at the conclusion that belief is a requirement, but the other commands found right there next to "believe" are not also requirements. Can someone please explain this hypocrisy to me?

Yes, and the common denominator is that both require a response on our part, a movement of the will towards obedience, not without the help of grace. And this is the whole point, the New Covenant grants us that grace, gives us the means to it, to partnership with God apart from whom we have no justice, no obedience. He necessarily makes the first move but we can still reject His offer. In any case faith can be acted upon -or not. If not acted on then faith, by itself, accomplishes nothing. And James makes it very clear that it's possible to have faith- to believe- without action.
"The only thing that counts is faith working through love." Gal 5:6

Love must blossom as well, providing the authentic motivation for the kind of works mentioned in Eph 2:10 or Matt 25:31-46 for examples. And this happens only to the extent that we cooperate with God's life and work in us.

 

[112358]

Yes, and the common denominator is that both require a response on our part, a movement of the will towards obedience, not without the help of grace. And this is the whole point, the New Covenant grants us that grace, gives us the means to it, to partnership with God apart from whom we have no justice, no obedience. He necessarily makes the first move but we can still reject His offer. In any case faith can be acted upon -or not. If not acted on then faith, by itself, accomplishes nothing. And James makes it very clear that it's possible to have faith- to believe- without action.
"The only thing that counts is faith working through love." Gal 5:6

Love must blossom as well, providing the authentic motivation for the kind of works mentioned in Eph 2:10 or Matt 25:31-46 for examples. And this happens only to the extent that we cooperate with God's life and work in us.

Thanks for the response. Anyone else willing to take a stab at my question?

 

[AnticipateHisComing]

The problem is that Protestants got their faith alone doctrine from Paul's writings, not from the words of Jesus ! Jesus made it clear that many people who call him "Lord, Lord" will NOT make it to Heaven. Rather, feeding the poor and healing the sick is the route that Jesus emphasized to get to Heaven. Faith is important, obviously. However, many people believe in Jesus and yet they refuse to help the less fortunate.

Try out these words of Jesus.

Luke 7:50 Jesus said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”​

And Jesus healed many because of their faith. If you think Jesus came to preach a works based salvation, you miss what the Gospel means. Jesus came to give a new covenant. If works saves, the Jews had that concept down. Now Jesus did teach to obey his commands and do the Father's will, but the disciples asked who is able to be perfect toward salvation. Jesus answered none.

Mark 10:26 The disciples were even more amazed, and said to each other, “Who then can be saved?”27 Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but not with God; all things are possible with God.”​

God judges the heart and people will respond to his word based on their heart as Jesus taught.

Matthew 13:15 For this people’s heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.’​

I wonder how far their "faith alone" doctrine will get them when they die?

This needs to be understood. No scripture teaches that on judgement day we will be judged by the doctrine that each Christian knows. Your wonder is for nothing. Protestants or Catholics have no special place in heaven. We will be judged on our actions, but no one saved is saved because of them. That is why we evangelize and are not content with all the other religions being able to live a good life and earn salvation.

 

[AnticipateHisComing]

The reformers really did a disservice by adding the word "alone" to a litany of items didn't they?

The "Traditionalists" persist in promoting disservice; thinking God's word is not sufficient for salvation and needs man's word for completeness.

 

[redleghunter]

Happily. We are told by the doctrine of "Faith alone plus nothing" or "Grace alone plus nothing" that we must believe in Jesus Christ in order to be saved. That establishes belief as a requirement, something we must do, in order to receive salvation. Yet at the same time we are told that when we yield to the command, "believe", that is not something we must do, because things which we must do are "works", and we are not saved by "works". Which is it? Is belief something we must do or not?

What happens prior to any of the above?

 

[112358]

What happens prior to any of the above?

I will answer your question when you answer mine.

 

[AnticipateHisComing]

Why are all commandments found in the New Testament, with the exception of belief, considered "works", but belief is not? Is believing not submitting to the command that we believe? Why then is belief considered the only requirement for salvation, when it appears together with other commands (i.e. "He who believes and is baptized")?

Think about Judgment Day. All have sinned. Almost all do at least something "good". How will God separate the righteous from the damned? You are mislead if you read Jesus' teaching of the sheep and the goats as teaching deed based salvation. First they are separated, the sheep from the goats, then they are judged. Read Matthew 25:41-46 to see that the damned are judged and sent to hell for their actions. Next look closely at Matthew 25:34 to see that the saved are saved through an inheritance, not earned by their actions. While scripture does commend and say the saved will be rewarded for their actions, it is not the basis of their salvation.

The damned will be judged for every sin that is not forgotten/forgiven.
The saved will have all their sins forgotten/forgiven and will be judged for their "good" deeds.
The saved are made righteous by the grace of God through faith in Jesus as their Savior.

 

[redleghunter]

I will answer your question when you answer mine.

Sure.

Hebrews 11: NASB

1Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. 2For by it the men of old gained approval.

3By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things which are visible. 4By faith Abel offered to God a better sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained the testimony that he was righteous, God testifying about his gifts, and through faith, though he is dead, he still speaks. 5By faith Enoch was taken up so that he would not see death; AND HE WAS NOT FOUND BECAUSE GOD TOOK HIM UP; for he obtained the witness that before his being taken up he was pleasing to God. 6And without faith it is impossible to please Him,for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him. 7By faith Noah, being warned by God about things not yet seen, in reverence prepared an ark for the salvation of his household, by which he condemned the world, and became an heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.

8By faith Abraham, when he was called, obeyed by going out to a place which he was to receive for an inheritance; and he went out, not knowing where he was going. 9By faith he lived as an alien in the land of promise, as in a foreign land, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, fellow heirs of the same promise; 10for he was looking for the city which has foundations, whose architect and builder is God. 11By faith even Sarah herself received ability to conceive, even beyond the proper time of life, since she considered Him faithful who had promised. 12Therefore there was born even of one man, and him as good as dead at that, as many descendants AS THE STARS OF HEAVEN IN NUMBER, AND INNUMERABLE AS THE SAND WHICH IS BY THE SEASHORE.

13All these died in faith, without receiving the promises, but having seen them and having welcomed them from a distance, and having confessed that they were strangers and exiles on the earth. 14For those who say such things make it clear that they are seeking a country of their own. 15And indeed if they had been thinking of that country from which they went out, they would have had opportunity to return. 16But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God; for He has prepared a city for them.

17By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was offering up his only begotten son; 18it was he to whom it was said, “IN ISAAC YOUR DESCENDANTS SHALL BE CALLED.” 19He considered that God is able to raise people even from the dead, from which he also received him back as a type.20By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau, even regarding things to come. 21By faith Jacob, as he was dying, blessed each of the sons of Joseph, and worshiped, leaning on the top of his staff. 22By faith Joseph, when he was dying, made mention of the exodus of the sons of Israel, and gave orders concerning his bones.

23By faith Moses, when he was born, was hidden for three months by his parents, because they saw he was a beautiful child; and they were not afraid of the king’s edict. 24By faith Moses, when he had grown up, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh’s daughter, 25choosing rather to endure ill-treatment with the people of God than to enjoy the passing pleasures of sin, 26considering the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures of Egypt; for he was looking to the reward. 27By faith he left Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king; for he endured, as seeing Him who is unseen. 28By faith he kept the Passover and the sprinkling of the blood, so that he who destroyed the firstborn would not touch them. 29By faith they passed through the Red Sea as though they were passing through dry land; and the Egyptians, when they attempted it, were drowned.

30By faith the walls of Jericho fell down after they had been encircled for seven days. 31By faith Rahab the harlot did not perish along with those who were disobedient, after she had welcomed the spies in peace.

32And what more shall I say? For time will fail me if I tell of Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, of David and Samuel and the prophets, 33who by faith conquered kingdoms, performed acts ofrighteousness, obtained promises, shut the mouths of lions,34quenched the power of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, from weakness were made strong, became mighty in war, put foreign armies to flight. 35Women received back their dead by resurrection; and others were tortured, not accepting their release, so that they might obtain a better resurrection; 36and others experienced mockings and scourgings, yes, also chains and imprisonment. 37They were stoned, they were sawn in two, they were tempted, they were put to death with the sword; they went about in sheepskins, in goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, ill-treated 38(men of whom the world was not worthy), wandering in deserts and mountains and caves and holes in the ground.

39And all these, having gained approval through their faith, did not receive what was promised, 40because God had provided something better for us, so that apart from us they would not be made perfect.

 

[discipler7]

“...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth” (2 Thessalonians 2:13).

Not sure you understand what this above verse says, but it says that God has chosen us to salvation through two things here.
#1. Belief of the truth (i.e. Jesus is the truth - See John 14:6).
#2. Sanctification of the Spirit (i.e. Holy living by the power of the Spirit).

.
GALATIANS.2:7 = But on the contrary, when they saw that the gospel for the uncircumcised had been committed to me, as the gospel for the circumcised was to Peter,

JOHN.6:63 = It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.

JOHN.13: = 9 Simon Peter said to Him, “Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head!”

10 Jesus said to him, “He who is bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean; and you are clean, but not all of you.” 11 For He knew who would betray Him; therefore He said, “You are not all clean.”

JOHN.15:3 = You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.
_ _ _ _ _ _

What you said above, mostly apply to Gentile Christians, ie not to Jewish Christians. Jewish Christians who were formerly good Jews, are already sanctified by the Spirit before conversion to Christianity, eg the 11 apostles.
....... In comparison, most Gentile Christians had formerly led lawless lives as uncircumcised Gentiles before their conversion. They require a process of sanctification or "cleaning" by the Spirit after conversion to Christianity or after coming into belief, eg 1COR.3:1-3.

As former good Jews, Jewish Christians already have the works = are clean/sanctified. As former good Jews, they had only lacked faith in Jesus Christ, in order to be saved from hell or gain salvation.
.......It would be inappropriate for James to say to the 11 apostles, " You have faith, and I have works. Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. ... But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? ... For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."(JAMES.2: )

 

[112358]

Sure.

Hebrews 11: NASB

1Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. 2For by it the men of old gained approval.

3By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things which are visible. 4By faith Abel offered to God a better sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained the testimony that he was righteous, God testifying about his gifts, and through faith, though he is dead, he still speaks. 5By faith Enoch was taken up so that he would not see death; AND HE WAS NOT FOUND BECAUSE GOD TOOK HIM UP; for he obtained the witness that before his being taken up he was pleasing to God. 6And without faith it is impossible to please Him,for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him. 7By faith Noah, being warned by God about things not yet seen, in reverence prepared an ark for the salvation of his household, by which he condemned the world, and became an heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.

8By faith Abraham, when he was called, obeyed by going out to a place which he was to receive for an inheritance; and he went out, not knowing where he was going. 9By faith he lived as an alien in the land of promise, as in a foreign land, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, fellow heirs of the same promise; 10for he was looking for the city which has foundations, whose architect and builder is God. 11By faith even Sarah herself received ability to conceive, even beyond the proper time of life, since she considered Him faithful who had promised. 12Therefore there was born even of one man, and him as good as dead at that, as many descendants AS THE STARS OF HEAVEN IN NUMBER, AND INNUMERABLE AS THE SAND WHICH IS BY THE SEASHORE.

13All these died in faith, without receiving the promises, but having seen them and having welcomed them from a distance, and having confessed that they were strangers and exiles on the earth. 14For those who say such things make it clear that they are seeking a country of their own. 15And indeed if they had been thinking of that country from which they went out, they would have had opportunity to return. 16But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God; for He has prepared a city for them.

17By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was offering up his only begotten son; 18it was he to whom it was said, “IN ISAAC YOUR DESCENDANTS SHALL BE CALLED.” 19He considered that God is able to raise people even from the dead, from which he also received him back as a type.20By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau, even regarding things to come. 21By faith Jacob, as he was dying, blessed each of the sons of Joseph, and worshiped, leaning on the top of his staff. 22By faith Joseph, when he was dying, made mention of the exodus of the sons of Israel, and gave orders concerning his bones.

23By faith Moses, when he was born, was hidden for three months by his parents, because they saw he was a beautiful child; and they were not afraid of the king’s edict. 24By faith Moses, when he had grown up, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh’s daughter, 25choosing rather to endure ill-treatment with the people of God than to enjoy the passing pleasures of sin, 26considering the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures of Egypt; for he was looking to the reward. 27By faith he left Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king; for he endured, as seeing Him who is unseen. 28By faith he kept the Passover and the sprinkling of the blood, so that he who destroyed the firstborn would not touch them. 29By faith they passed through the Red Sea as though they were passing through dry land; and the Egyptians, when they attempted it, were drowned.

30By faith the walls of Jericho fell down after they had been encircled for seven days. 31By faith Rahab the harlot did not perish along with those who were disobedient, after she had welcomed the spies in peace.

32And what more shall I say? For time will fail me if I tell of Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, of David and Samuel and the prophets, 33who by faith conquered kingdoms, performed acts ofrighteousness, obtained promises, shut the mouths of lions,34quenched the power of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, from weakness were made strong, became mighty in war, put foreign armies to flight. 35Women received back their dead by resurrection; and others were tortured, not accepting their release, so that they might obtain a better resurrection; 36and others experienced mockings and scourgings, yes, also chains and imprisonment. 37They were stoned, they were sawn in two, they were tempted, they were put to death with the sword; they went about in sheepskins, in goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, ill-treated 38(men of whom the world was not worthy), wandering in deserts and mountains and caves and holes in the ground.

39And all these, having gained approval through their faith, did not receive what was promised, 40because God had provided something better for us, so that apart from us they would not be made perfect.

A simple "yes" would have sufficed, but this will work as well. Here we have a laundry list of actions faithful people were motivated to take based on their belief...which is also something that THEY DID, no one else. THEY believed, no one else.

Now for the answer to your question. What happened before "He who believes" believed? In short, God Almighty set in place His great redemption scheme which would reconcile mankind back to Him, chiefly through the sacrifice of the only entity capable of paying the price for the sin that separated mankind from Him, Jesus Christ, The Son of the living God, the substance (the underlying reality upon which all else rests) of our hope. None of which has the first thing to do with anything any of us has done, or ever will do. He has established the means by which we are reconciled. It is available to every soul on the face of the planet. That is what happened before any of us believed. that is what HE has DONE. That is part one of the equation.

Part two of the equation has everything to do with us and what we choose to DO with this divine scheme. One thing we must clearly DO, is BELIEVE. No one takes any issue with that fact whatsoever. But when I or anyone else points out that there are other things found in scripture which WE must DO in order to receive salvation, everyone throws a fit.

And thus is uncovered the hypocrisy of "faith alone plus nothing", "grace alone plus nothing", and "OSAS". They assert that there is one thing we must DO in order to be saved, and outright reject other things found sitting right there in God's Word next to "believe" as "works". It is in the simplest terms the definition of hypocrisy. Which makes it false. Which makes it of men and not of God. Which makes it a lie. Which makes it of the father of lies. Which makes it the object of my hatred. Which makes it my enemy.

And this is the source of the doubt the OP expressed when he or she said they are losing faith in faith alone. They are seeking truth, and I pray they keep seeking, for surely they will find it.

Seek truth!

 

[twin.spin]

​

When a Christian goes out and commits adultery, is that an act of loving or rejecting our Lord Jesus?

You're deflecting from the fact that Scriptures does teach that Jesus did.
This is simply not the case: "That's all well and good, but our Lord Jesus does not teach Sola Fide."

Jesus taught Sola Fide.

Luke 7:50
Jesus said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”

John 3:14-16
Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up,
that everyone who believes may have eternal life.
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,
that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life,
but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.

John 6:40
"For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.​

​

 

[Afra]

​

You're deflecting from the fact that Scriptures does teach that Jesus did.
This is simply not the case: "That's all well and good, but our Lord Jesus does not teach Sola Fide."

Jesus taught Sola Fide.

Luke 7:50

Jesus said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”

John 3:14-16
Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up,
that everyone who believes may have eternal life.
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,
that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life,
but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.

John 6:40
"For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.​

No, our Lord does not teach Sola Fide. You never addressed any of the verses that I initially provided, so there is no particular reason why I should respond to the verses you have provided.

And I am not deflecting. Read John 3:36 that you recited. Whoever rejects the Son (better translated as “whoever does not obey the Son” as in the ESV) will not see life, because God’s wrath is on him. Adultery is not an act of believing or loving our Lord. It is an act of rejecting and disobeying our Lord. So you can easily see that the verse does not teach Sola Fide.

Martin Luther, on the other hand, taught that we can murder and commit adultery thousands of times a day. I’ll take a pass on him.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Happily. We are told by the doctrine of "Faith alone plus nothing" or "Grace alone plus nothing" that we must believe in Jesus Christ in order to be saved. That establishes belief as a requirement, something we must do, in order to receive salvation. Yet at the same time we are told that when we yield to the command, "believe", that is not something we must do, because things which we must do are "works", and we are not saved by "works". Which is it? Is belief something we must do or not?

Believe in what about Jesus? Perhaps this clears up some matters. What are we supposed to believe about Jesus to be believing IN Jesus? That he lived? That is a fact. That he died on a cross? That is a fact too. That he resurrected? That is faith but the demons know that one is true.

What if "believe in Jesus" means believe the things he taught including that if we love Him , we will keep his teaching/commmandments. Uh oh! Keeping his commandments is W O R K and not always easy. Maybe work is not odious or offensive to God after all. Or maybe those who believe DO the works that He wants. Uh oh! That is also not easy but W O R K.

The whole "do nothing but think right and you are going to Heaven" theology reminds me of the person who goes through the wedding ceremony and insists that they are married now no matter how they behave to their spouse. They got the piece of paper that legally binds the other party to being married so no working at the relationship is required. Once married, never single again means always married no matter what one does.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Only he did:

Luke 7:50
Jesus said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”

John 3:14-16
Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up,
that everyone who believes may have eternal life.
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,
that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life,
but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.​

John 6:40
"For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”​

What does BELIEVE mean??

 

[112358]

What if "believe in Jesus" means believe the things he taught including that if we love Him , we will keep his teaching/commmandments. Uh oh! Keeping his commandments is W O R K and not always easy. Maybe work is not odious or offensive to God after all. Or maybe those who believe DO the works that He wants. Uh oh! That is also not easy but W O R K.

Yes! Believing in Jesus, being something that we do, becomes "work" by the doctrine's (faith/grace alone - OSAS) own definition. Yet all the the (many!) things associated with believing they reject outright because they are "work"! Well that is quite the convenient little set up there, isn't it? That way I can believe with confidence, and not worry about baptism for the remission of sins at all because that is "work". I can believe with confidence, and honestly do whatever else in the world suits my taste, because all that other stuff is "work". And this is exactly what many "believers" do.

Maybe obedience, starting with obedience to the command that we believe, is actually not "work" after all. Maybe we have bought into a big hoax about what is actually meant by "work". Maybe God's Word actually means what is actually says.

Someone actually stated that if I, having at first believed that Jesus Christ is the Son of God (and that is the ONLY requirement), thereafter renounced my belief, pledged allegiance to Satan himself, murdered, raped, pillaged, and yielded to every sinful temptation for the rest of my days, I would nevertheless inherit eternal life, because Jesus said that He would give His sheep eternal life, and they would never perish.

Which makes perfect sense if you adhere to the doctrine, because to admit otherwise is to admit that something else is required to receive salvation and eternal security than just "belief". And people wonder why the "religious" world acts as if it has lost its mind...it very much has!

Seek truth!

 

[GodsGrace101]

I have always been taught growing up that we are justified before God by faith alone, and not works. However, the more I read James 2, the more I believe the Catholic Church is correct in its soteriology as opposed to Anglican/Lutheran soteriology.

James 2:21 following:
21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,”[e] and he was called God’s friend.24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.

It literally says "...considered righteous by what they (you) do and not by faith alone".

I've heard that this passage refers to how the Church can tell if one has genuine faith, as opposed to faith/justification before God. Where is this distinction found in the text? It seems that you have to read more into the text than is there to arrive at that conclusion.

Here's a second, even more clear translation:

James 2:24: Ye see that by works a man is justified, and not only by faith.

You're learning the truth.
Jesus spoke about what we are to do during His entire ministry.
What you should do to clarify this is to learn the difference between justification and sanctification. Paul used these two terms interchangeably and James misspoke a bit too, but theologians figured it out and it really helps to understand why we are not saved by works, but works are a necessary part of our Christian life, and the Holy Spirit helps us to do them.

Difference between Justification and Sanctification | Difference Between

 

[Tutorman]

I have always been taught growing up that we are justified before God by faith alone, and not works. However, the more I read James 2, the more I believe the Catholic Church is correct in its soteriology as opposed to Anglican/Lutheran soteriology.

James 2:21 following:
21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,”[e] and he was called God’s friend.24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.

It literally says "...considered righteous by what they (you) do and not by faith alone".

I've heard that this passage refers to how the Church can tell if one has genuine faith, as opposed to faith/justification before God. Where is this distinction found in the text? It seems that you have to read more into the text than is there to arrive at that conclusion.

Here's a second, even more clear translation:

James 2:24: Ye see that by works a man is justified, and not only by faith.

The word "alone" was added it never was alone. Salvation comes by grace trough faith but not alone.

 

[redleghunter]

A simple "yes" would have sufficed, but this will work as well.

I'm glad quoting Hebrews 11 was a blessing for you. I cannot read or meditate or even pray that chapter without being cut to the quick with tears.

Now for the answer to your question. What happened before "He who believes" believed? In short, God Almighty set in place His great redemption scheme which would reconcile mankind back to Him, chiefly through the sacrifice of the only entity capable of paying the price for the sin that separated mankind from Him, Jesus Christ, The Son of the living God, the substance (the underlying reality upon which all else rests) of our hope. None of which has the first thing to do with anything any of us has done, or ever will do. He has established the means by which we are reconciled. It is available to every soul on the face of the planet. That is what happened before any of us believed. that is what HE has DONE. That is part one of the equation.

Something big is missing above but will address it below.

Part two of the equation has everything to do with us and what we choose to DO with this divine scheme. One thing we must clearly DO, is BELIEVE. No one takes any issue with that fact whatsoever. But when I or anyone else points out that there are other things found in scripture which WE must DO in order to receive salvation, everyone throws a fit.

What your post lacks thus far is that God is sovereign. He is sovereign not only over His Creation as the uncreated Creator. He is also sovereign over Salvation.

What you did not mention was how God draws a sinner to Him in sorrow and repentance leading to salvation. God initiates our movement to Him.

Ezekiel 36: NASB
25“Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols.26“Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27“I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances.

Notice the use of "I will" all come from YHWH.

The above many theologians believe is what Jesus was teaching Nicodemus on the night he came to Christ.

John 3: NASB

3Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

4Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?” 5Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6“That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7“Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8“The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

God draws us to Him, we don't just "decide" as an intellectual exercise and hope for the best.

And thus is uncovered the hypocrisy of "faith alone plus nothing", "grace alone plus nothing", and "OSAS". They assert that there is one thing we must DO in order to be saved, and outright reject other things found sitting right there in God's Word next to "believe" as "works". It is in the simplest terms the definition of hypocrisy. Which makes it false. Which makes it of men and not of God. Which makes it a lie. Which makes it of the father of lies. Which makes it the object of my hatred. Which makes it my enemy.

It's not a lie, other than they way you state it so. What does the Bible tell us of those who are born again?

2 Corinthians 5: NASB
16Therefore from now on we recognize no one according to the flesh; even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him in this way no longer. 17Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come. 18Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, 19namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

20Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. 21He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

How can we add to the Righteousness of God? We can't.
We can obey Him as the new creation is designed for:

Ephesians 2: NASB
1And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. 3Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. 4But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;9not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

If we are truly His workmanship we will walk to the beat of His drum.

And this is the source of the doubt the OP expressed when he or she said they are losing faith in faith alone. They are seeking truth, and I pray they keep seeking, for surely they will find it.

My best advice to the OP and others doubting their faith is to do what many Christians have done throughout history. Take Paul's serious and sobering advice as I was graciously led to many years ago:

2 Corinthians 13: NASB

5Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you—unless indeed you fail the test?