Lord's Supper - Wine or Grape Juice?

[1stcenturylady]

That does not agree with scripture, maybe this will help.
When was the Passover Sacrifice Brought - NehemiasWall.com

Exodus 12
5 Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year. You may take it from the sheep or from the goats. 6 Now you shall keep it until the fourteenth day of the same month. Then the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it at twilight. 7 And they shall take some of the blood and put it on the two doorposts and on the lintel of the houses where they eat it. 8 Then they shall eat the flesh on that night; roasted in fire, with unleavened bread and with bitter herbs they shall eat it.

What did I say that contradicted this passage?

 

[Albion]

Ummm... the blood reference at the Last supper was symbolic unless you think Jesus contradicted the ordinance to not eat or drink blood.

There's no reason to think that he couldn't do that. He certainly went against other rules and regulations that governed Hebrew practices.

 

[Antig]

They told Him that work on a Sabbath was not allowed! What did Jesus do / say!?

 

[Hank77]

What did I say that contradicted this passage?

The lambs were killed on the 14th at the beginning of twilight, which to our calendar would have been the evening of the 13th, roasted and eaten the same day, the 14th, all on the same day as the Crucifixion.

You said 'between the evenings' would be twilight on the 13th and eaten on the 14th day, the same day as the Crucifixion.
The sacrifice/the Passover/the lamb, was sacrificed and cooked 'between the evenings' or 'twilight' between the 14th and the 15th and eaten 'after dark' on the 15th, the First Day of Unleavened Bread.

The passage in Deuteronomy 16:1-8 is talking about the Feast of Unleavened Bread and there can be no doubt that "the first day" in v.4 refers to the first day of Unleavened Bread. We have already seen in Leviticus 23:6 that the First Day of Unleavened Bread falls out on the 15th of the First Month. When we look at Leviticus 23:5-6 and Deuteronomy 16:4 together it becomes clear that the Passover Sacrifice is brought at the end of the 14th of the First Month between the two evenings and eaten that same evening on the 15th of the First Month. The period of "between the two evenings" is reckoned as both the end of the 14th (Leviticus 23:5) and the beginning of the 15th (Deuteronomy 16:4)!
When was the Passover Sacrifice Brought - NehemiasWall.com

 

[mmksparbud]

Lol.....

Everyone knows that in those days, alcohol, wine, was a stable part of their diet. Non alcoholic wine had not been invented! Its only modern day alcohol free believers that say such.

Jesus turned water into WINE! Jesus drank WINE. Jesus turned WINE into His Blessed and Holy Blood at the last supper.

Wrong--please read post # 54--the word was used for either fermented or unfermented. If you look up the way Greeks drank their wine, they also used a very diluted wine. They considered full strength wine---uncivilized. Greek thought was used in much if Jewish life as in they even used their language to write the NT in.

 

[Hank77]

Ummm... the blood reference at the Last supper was symbolic unless you think Jesus contradicted the ordinance to not eat or drink blood.

The blood of bulls and goats.

Heb 10:4 for it is impossible for blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

 

[Hank77]

If you look up the way Greeks drank their wine, they also used a very diluted wine.

As did the Romans.

 

[mmksparbud]

The blood of bulls and goats.

Heb 10:4 for it is impossible for blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

???? What do you mean?---the Jews never drank the blood, it was used as a sacrifice.

 

[Hank77]

???? What do you mean?---the Jews never drank the blood, it was used as a sacrifice.

Ummm... the blood reference at the Last supper was symbolic unless you think Jesus contradicted the ordinance to not eat or drink blood.

The blood of bulls and goats.
Heb 10:4 for it is impossible for blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

They were forbidden to drink/eat the blood of the sacrifices of bulls and goats, which could not take away sin.

 

[mmksparbud]

They were forbidden to drink/eat the blood of the sacrifices of bulls and goats, which could not take away sin.

I should rephrase what I said--the blood was not used as a sacrifice, it was used for sprinkling, for cleansing---

Exo_23:18 Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leavened bread; neither shall the fat of my sacrifice remain until the morning.
Exo_34:25 Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leaven; neither shall the sacrifice of the feast of the passover be left unto the morning.

Any blood of anything was forbidden to eat--God said this to Noah:

Gen 9:3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.
Gen 9:4 But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.
Lev_6:30 And no sin offering, whereof any of the blood is brought into the tabernacle of the congregation to reconcile withal in the holy place, shall be eaten: it shall be burnt in the fire.
Lev_7:26 Moreover ye shall eat no manner of blood, whether it be of fowl or of beast, in any of your dwellings.
Lev_7:27 Whatsoever soul it be that eateth any manner of blood, even that soul shall be cut off from his people.

It was still forbidden post crucifixion:
Act_15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
Act_15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

I already showed you SCRIPTURE that Christ and the disciples ate the Passover meal and it was a seder. I already EXPLAINED what I meant by Passover being the first day of the feast of unleavened bread.

You have tried to but scripture and what you say are different...

 

[1stcenturylady]

You have tried to but scripture and what you say are different...

Then let's just agree to disagree, because you don't understand what I'm saying, nor do you back up your theories with foundational scripture.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Please explain the witness of Him dying on Friday. One can't get three nights, not even partial nights, if He died on Friday.

Of course you can. Your problem is in your interpretation. You are stuck on the 72 hr deal (a part of a day is considered as the whole). Friday before sunset is day 1, Saturday is day 2, Sunday is day 3. Read the account of the 2 witnesses on the road to Emmaus...why do you think that account is there? the day they walked with Yeshua was on the 3rd day since those events occurred...Sunday day 3, Saturday day 2 and Friday those events occurred....really simple. BTW, the day of preparation is ALWAYS Friday, the day before the Sabbath.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Of course you can. Your problem is in your interpretation. You are stuck on the 72 hr deal (a part of a day is considered as the whole). Friday before sunset is day 1, Saturday is day 2, Sunday is day 3. Read the account of the 2 witnesses on the road to Emmaus...why do you think that account is there? the day they walked with Yeshua was on the 3rd day since those events occurred...Sunday day 3, Saturday day 2 and Friday those events occurred....really simple. BTW, the day of preparation is ALWAYS Friday, the day before the Sabbath.

Wrong, there are also HIGH Sabbaths on which no work is to be done, and the preceding day is a day of preparation.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Wrong, there are also HIGH Sabbaths on which no work is to be done, and the preceding day is a day of preparation.

The day of preparation is ALWAYS Friday (the day before Shabbat). That Sabbath was on Saturday the 15th. The identification of παρασκευή with Friday became so traditional that it eventually came to be the present-day Greek term for "Friday".

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

I see you provide no scriptures with your theories.

Luke 22
14 When the hour had come, He sat down, and the twelve apostles with Him. 15 Then He said to them, “With fervent desire I have desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer; 16 for I say to you, I will no longer eat of it until it is fulfilled in the kingdom of God.”

Yes, He did desire to eat it, but He couldn't, He would not eat it again until in the Kingdom.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

What link? I never provided a "link." And I never said He rose at 3 PM in the afternoon. You're confused. Perhaps you saw my #3 and thought that read 3 PM. No, it was to indicate 3 days and 3 nights.

You said that your scenario was the same as the link that was provided by the other poster...in that link, He died at 3 PM and resurrected at 3 PM on the Sabbath...I am not confused at all.

 

[Hank77]

Of course you can. Your problem is in your interpretation. You are stuck on the 72 hr deal (a part of a day is considered as the whole). Friday before sunset is day 1, Saturday is day 2, Sunday is day 3. Read the account of the 2 witnesses on the road to Emmaus...why do you think that account is there? the day they walked with Yeshua was on the 3rd day since those events occurred...Sunday day 3, Saturday day 2 and Friday those events occurred....really simple. BTW, the day of preparation is ALWAYS Friday, the day before the Sabbath.

Number one I am not STUCK on anything. I didn't say anything about days, I see the three days, what I don't see is three nights. Unless you are saying the three nights aren't necessary.

 

[1stcenturylady]

You said that your scenario was the same as the link that was provided by the other poster...in that link, He died at 3 PM and resurrected at 3 PM on the Sabbath...I am not confused at all.

You are still confused more than ever. He said he rose Sunday while it was still NIGHT-TIME! How do you get 3 pm out of that??? It is getting frustrating talking to you because you just don't know what you are talking about.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Number one I am not STUCK on anything. I didn't say anything about days, I see the three days, what I don't see is three nights. Unless you are saying the three nights aren't necessary.

No they are not since all the other times He said in 3 days or on the 3rd day with no mention of nights. The 3 days and nights were used as an example regarding Yonah. The sign was NOT a dead man in the grave (or in a fish) for 3 days, it was that that dead man rose! All dead men are in a grave for 3 days.