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Lord's Supper - Wine or Grape Juice?

Christie insb

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"While the wines drunk in the times depicted in the Hebrew Bible were not diluted with water, after the conquest of Palestine by Alexander the Great the Hellenistic custom of diluting wine had taken hold such that the author of 2 Maccabees speaks of diluted wine as "a more pleasant drink" and of both undiluted wine and unmixed water as "harmful" or "distasteful."[99]" Wikipedia. So I really think your interpretation of the Isaiah 1 passage is seriously off. The above Wikipedia article indicates the custom of diluting wine comes from the Greeks, and I don't think we are supposed to imitate the syncretism from other cultures. Let's not waste our time arguing with each other; we have had discussions before that were a waste of time.
 
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mmksparbud

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This from a Catholic perspective:

"The brief rite of pouring water into the wine used for consecration is very ancient. Indeed, it is believed that Our Lord himself used wine tempered with water at the Last Supper as this was the common practice among the Jews and in Mediterranean culture in general.

Some form of this is found in practically every rite of the Church both Western and Eastern, except for a group of Armenian Monophysites.

Although the water is not essential for the validity of the sacrament, the Church holds it in great importance and it must never be omitted. The Council of Trent even went so far as to excommunicate whoever denied the need for this mixture (see Canon 9, Session XXII). "
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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I know exactly what arton is and I know what azumos is too, do you? BTW, Matthew, Luke and Mark have Him crucified on the 15th while John on the 14th...cant be both. You figure it out...
 
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Bible Highlighter

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If you are going to be skeptical, it does not matter what more sources I show you.

In any event, may the Lord's love shine upon you; And lets agree to disagree.

Peace be unto you.
 
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mmksparbud

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I know exactly what arton is and I know what azumos is too, do you? BTW, Matthew, Luke and Mark have Him crucified on the 15th while John on the 14th...cant be both. You figure it out...


Sure do---and I personally have not followed that date argument and at this point in time---doesn't interest me!
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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Sure do---and I personally have not followed that date argument and at this point in time---doesn't interest me!

Then why did you post all those verses?
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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Personally I don't care about the actual date. Jesus and His disciples call the meal He is having Passover---that is good enough for me. You may call it whatever you want.

I see...yet Passover HAS an actual date...but I know, you don't care...I guess that sums you up.
 
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1stcenturylady

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I know exactly what arton is and I know what azumos is too, do you? BTW, Matthew, Luke and Mark have Him crucified on the 15th while John on the 14th...cant be both. You figure it out...

I couldn't find what you are talking about. Where does it say in the first three gospels He died on the 15th? I only know about Him dying on the 14th.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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I couldn't find what you are talking about. Where does it say in the first three gospels He died on the 15th? I only know about Him dying on the 14th.

They have Him crucified on the 15th, AFTER the Passover on unleavened...John has it on the day of preparation on the 14th.
 
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mmksparbud

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Its too bad you don't understand what Jesus said...

And your interpretation for the following is??
Luk 22:14 And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him.
Luk 22:15 And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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And your interpretation for the following is??
Luk 22:14 And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him.
Luk 22:15 And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:

Why, you don't care...read Luke 22:1 AND Luke 22:7
 
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1stcenturylady

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They have Him crucified on the 15th, AFTER the Passover on unleavened...John has it on the day of preparation on the 14th.

I've seen that as after the Passover meal that was at the beginning of Passover which would be on the evening of the 13th. He died later on during the daylight of Passover.
 
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Christie insb

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I've seen that as after the Passover meal that was at the beginning of Passover which would be on the evening of the 13th. He died later on during the daylight of Passover.
That makes sense. People also celebrate Passover on both the first and the second day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread. I should look for a reference because I know this happens but I may not be explaining it right.

This is an argument I am not passionate about. What I don't like is the rejection of Jesus dying on Friday and rising from the dead on Sunday. The Two Sabbaths of Passover
But these are all disputable matters from my point of view, and I will try to remember that love is more important than these details. 2 Timothy 2:24ff.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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I've seen that as after the Passover meal that was at the beginning of Passover which would be on the evening of the 13th. He died later on during the daylight of Passover.

Yes that is true in John, but if you read the others it seems to say it was on unleavened.
 
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