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  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Looters ransack Target store

MyLifeForChrist

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Unless you have first hand knowledge of how police act in these situations, I wouldn’t be so confident. I’ve attended countless peaceful protests where the cops showed up in riot gear and escalated the conflict.

When the protest is and remains peaceful? Nobody showing up in a chiffon dress let alone riot gear means a hill of beans.
 
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(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)

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The problem is too many times there is NO IMMINENT THREAT and it is NOT legitimate self defense.
I agree. But you cannot take away anyone's right to use lethal force if their life is threatened.
 
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MyLifeForChrist

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"...They are trained to have a superiority complex and think they are allowed to bully civilians.."

That is patently false and your commentary should be pulled.
 
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agapelove

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I agree. But you cannot take away anyone's right to use lethal force if their life is threatened.
I am not trying to. I am saying that as government employees with billions of dollars in funding they need to be better trained. The only reason cops are not trained to wound is because it’s “too difficult” and almost NO officers are properly trained in crisis negotiation or de-escalation. It is really like lethal force is the first and best option in all situations. Even the national guard has admitted that they are ill equipped to handle this situation. THE NATIONAL GUARD. This is really all such an embarrassment.
 
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(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)

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In case you have not noticed police brutality is a national crisis right now. In America cops kill more people in a single DAY than other countries do in a YEAR.
Correlation equals causation fallacy?

They are trained to have a superiority complex and think they are allowed to bully civilians.
No they are not trained to have a "superiority complex". They are not allowed to bully civilians either.

The disciples were not police officers they were REGULAR PEOPLE who wanted to protect themselves while Roman regime was slaughtering Christians on the streets.
Do you at least concede that police officers are people too and that they deserve the same right to self defense?

Buying swords is exactly what people are starting to do.
If by "swords" you are referring to weapons for self defense, I would encourage it.
 
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MyLifeForChrist

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If you put down "supplies" in preparation of destroying stuff, don't be surprised if they get taken away.
What is this even? Water bottles? Gotta stay hydrated while burning down the mom'n'pop at the corner?

Amen. If you want to go to war with the USA? Expect your supply lines to always be in jeopardy just as in any other war. Again, those decrying everything done in response to violence demand that no opposite reaction take place.
That is not going to be the case regarding law enforcement/National Guard action very soon and many will sadly suffer.
 
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(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)

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I am not trying to. I am saying that as government employees with billions of dollars in funding they need to be better trained. The only reason cops are not trained to wound is because it’s “too difficult” and almost NO officers are properly trained in crisis negotiation or de-escalation. It is really like lethal force is the first and best option in all situations. Even the national guard has admitted that they are ill equipped to handle this situation. THE NATIONAL GUARD. This is really all such an embarrassment.
Would you mind if I shared with you my thoughts as a military vet as to what the root problem is?
 
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agapelove

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Amen. If you want to go to war with the USA? Expect your supply lines to always be in jeopardy just as in any other war. Again, those decrying everything done in response to violence demand that no opposite reaction take place.
That is not going to be the case regarding law enforcement/National Guard action very soon and many will sadly suffer.
It does not look like people are trying to “go to war” sir. What it looks like is police trying to start a war.
Police trample on peaceful protesters amidst war zone that they created
 
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(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)

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Ok officer.
Are you sure your perspective of police officers may be a result of their reaction to your attitude and not their "training"? Talk about a bitter root expectancy.
 
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I call it a Twitter link I cannot open. Listen...I was trying to be civil and share with you some personal observations I have made from my experience in the Marine corps so you could better understand the situation law enforcement officers deal with on a daily basis. But it seems ironic for someone whose username is "agapelove", to have so much anger and bitterness. Until you calm down and deal with your emotional issues I really don't see this conversation having any productivity other than cop bashing therapy for your emotional responses.
 
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(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)

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This is the same video from a different account.
jordan on Twitter
Another Twitter link...do you get your information elsewhere? Listen...I was trying to be civil and share with you some personal observations I have made from my experience in the Marine corps so you could better understand the situation law enforcement officers deal with on a daily basis. But it seems ironic for someone whose username is "agapelove", to have so much anger and bitterness. Until you calm down and deal with your emotional issues I really don't see this conversation having any productivity other than cop bashing therapy for your emotional responses.
 
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agapelove

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I call it a Twitter link I cannot open. Listen...I was trying to be civil and share with you some personal observations I have made from my experience in the Marine corps so you could better understand the situation law enforcement officers deal with on a daily basis. But it seems ironic for someone whose username is "agapelove", to have so much anger and bitterness. Until you calm down and deal with your emotional issues I really don't see this conversation having any productivity other than cop bashing therapy for your emotional responses.
What's ironic is that on a Christian forum it appears there are more people siding with street bullies. If you do not have anger and bitterness towards absolute INJUSTICE then have several seats. Jesus cried out "Woe to you Pharisees!" when he witnessed the injustices being done to his people.

Since you cannot watch the video, let me give you a brief summary: It is a 2 minute montage of cops macing random civilians, mowing down protesters with their vehicles, spraying tear gas out of their windows as they drive by peaceful demonstrators, assaulting women, slamming people against walls, throwing people on the ground, shooting pepper bullets at the press, pepper spraying people from behind, and beating people with batons.

Feel free to share your personal testimony sir no one is stopping you.
 
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What's ironic is that on a Christian forum it appears there are more people siding with street bullies. If you do not have anger and bitterness towards absolute INJUSTICE then have several seats. Jesus cried out "Woe to you Pharisees!" when he witnessed the injustices being done to his people.

Since you cannot watch the video, let me give you a brief summary: It is a 2 minute montage of cops macing random civilians, mowing down protesters with their vehicles, spraying tear gas out of their windows as they drive by peaceful demonstrators, assaulting women, slamming people against walls, throwing people on the ground, shooting pepper bullets at the press, pepper spraying people from behind, and beating people with batons.
Nobody is siding with "street bullies". But you appear to be categorizing all law enforcement officers as them. Jesus also said to "judge not lest ye be judged" and it seems as though that in your anger you have judged all law enforcement officers as professionally trained bullies with superiority complexes. I am sorry but until you can somehow cope with your anger and emotions, I am afraid you cannot be reasoned with. I hope you find this thread therapeutic in venting your frustration.

Feel free to share your personal testimony sir no one is stopping you.
I will just start a thread about it. I don't want to waste my time sharing it with you right now because I don't think you would be receptive.
 
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What's embarrassing is that you claim to live your life for Christ while remaining silent on injustice and oppression. The Bible says "SPEAK UP FOR THOSE WHO CANNOT SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES, FOR THE RIGHTS OF ALL WHO ARE DESTITUTE." Feel free to report this thread if you are so offended! It's gone on for too long anyway.
I think the looters in Minnesota and the protesters all over the country are capable of speaking for themselves. Perhaps you would do better to speak for yourself.
 
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The only reason cops are not trained to wound is because it’s “too difficult” and almost NO officers are properly trained in crisis negotiation or de-escalation.
Not true. All officers are trained in escalation of force and 99% of them use it properly. Need I remind you of the police officers in New York who were assaulted and had buckets of water dumped on them? Need I remind you that they did absolutely nothing to retaliate?
 
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Sparagmos

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When the protest is and remains peaceful? Nobody showing up in a chiffon dress let alone riot gear means a hill of beans.
The first time I ended up in a peaceful protest (I was just trying to get to work) and the cops showed up in riot gear it was incredibly intimidating and made it very clear they expected altercations. They showed up dressed for battle, and they started one. Like I said to the poster I responded to, until you’ve experienced it first hand, it’s easy to believe otherwise.
 
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agapelove

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Not true. All officers are trained in escalation of force and 99% of them use it properly. Need I remind you of the police officers in New York who were assaulted and had buckets of water dumped on them? Need I remind you that they did absolutely nothing to retaliate?
Spare me the one bad apple card. Escalation of force is the exact opposite of deescalation and negotiation in case you could not tell what I was saying. Police are not trained to not kill.

Most states neglect ordering police to learn de-escalation tactics to avoid shootings | Not Trained to Not Kill | APM Reports

I do not think all law enforcement is rotten I think that the system they work for is rotten. Similarly you cannot say all Americans are rotten but you would be denying the truth if you cannot admit America is a rotten country. And right now, cops are reinforcing their own rotten system by acting senseless in the streets. Do you know why the looting at the Target in Minneapolis began? Cops were stationed on the roof shooting tear gas and rubber bullets at PEACEFUL PROTESTERS, and when demonstrators tried to go inside to get milk the doors had been locked. In the chaos people broke in and started looting. All of these so-called riots have been perpetually ignited by LAW ENFORCEMENT and outside extremists. Everything that you are seeing is simply a reaction by the protesters so please, learn to distinguish before you ask me to.

What happened to the NYC officers is reprehensible but please do not compare buckets of water to TEARGAS (which, I'm sure you know as an ex-marine, is ILLEGAL in warfare). Please understand I am NOT trying to paint an "us vs. them" picture, I am simply pointing out that that is what the political agenda is trying to do! Create a narrative where law enforcement is there to "keep peace" but instead they are antagonizing peaceful protesters until they react, then cry RIOT. They do this to demean the original cause so that more and more Americans begin to call for an end to the protests all together. It is the oldest trick in the book whenever people have tried to revolutionize!

I sincerely apologize if I have personally offended you seeing as you have a personal history and involvement as a veteran. But I urge you to recognize your OWN biases too as you continue to excuse INEXCUSABLE police behavior. I hope we can find some middle ground, I look forward to reading your thread.
 
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