Looking for the "Domestic Violence. Having issues, looking for solutions" thread?

[Andoverpolo]

It's not about money. It's about time. They have a financial incentive to keep telling you that you are making progress when you aren't, and to keep coming when it might not even be working. In fact, if you really do make progress they have a financial incentive to slow that down so they can bleed you for a few more sessions.

When you're the kind of guy that just wants to get issues worked out for your family, you tend to make that a priority and get a little agitated that some PhD with dreams of Bora Bora Island doesn't make it their priority as well.

 

[Miss Shelby]

geez, you a little cynical buddy?

 

[MikeK]

It's not about money. It's about time. They have a financial incentive to keep telling you that you are making progress when you aren't, and to keep coming when it might not even be working. In fact, if you really do make progress they have a financial incentive to slow that down so they can bleed you for a few more sessions.

When you're the kind of guy that just wants to get issues worked out for your family, you tend to make that a priority and get a little agitated that some PhD with dreams of Bora Bora Island doesn't make it their priority as well.

I can appreciate all of that frustration, as I'm pretty impatient myself. I don't like waiting for test results, I didn't like waiting to get an appointment, I don't like waiting, period. If you don't trust that your counselor cares about your situation and really has your best interests at heart, find a new one. You wouldn't go back to a mechanic that wanted to charge you for parts that aren't yet due for replacement, you shouldn't go back to a counselor who you belive to be sandbagging so they can overcharge either. That said, I don't believe there are many counselors out there who seek to slow your progress so you have to purchase more of their time.

 

[Andoverpolo]

Good point.

 

[Filia Mariae]

Continuing to pray for you and your family Caitlin.

 

[helenofbritain]

Are sessions together effective? Does your husband know what he does? How long did you move out?

Hello.

Apparently you're Mr Snowbunny, so I'll answer your questions straight up with introductions

They have been working for us so far. There are some areas where I know Ben still has blind spots, and it's driving me nuts waiting for his little lightbulb to go off - but he may feel the same way about me I guess. Most of the time we make progress though.

Apparently he didn't know.l When I walked out he was mystified - he knew he got mad, but he didn't know he got THAT mad. We think he was repressing the memories of his violent behaviour. Considering how irrational he used to get when we were fighting, with hindsight I don't find the repression surprising. It also explained why he never apologised.

I walked out on November 12, 2007. So 2 1/2 months ago now. I am now living in our family home, because Angus starts school tomorrow, and it's nice and close. Ben is living with his mum. Before that Ben was living at our house, and me and the kids were at my mum's.

The trouble with that is that all professionals rely on the excuse that it "takes time." I imagine at their billing rates it does take a great deal of time. I'm not stupid, they don't really care how things work out, they just want to make sure you show up so that the clock can start running. More time = more possibilities for things to get worse. They don't care - if things work out that's just good advertising, if they fail then it was doomed to failure, either way they can buy that new Audi.

Well, MC Bob is not like that. Relationships Australia is partially funded by the government, so it has a sliding scale for sessions. Full fee is $50 for 1 and a bit hours (our longest was 1 3/4!) and it goes down from there. We pay $35 per session - and they are worth every penny.

I think I saw you say on another thread that you are worth half a billion dollars? I think your family is worth at least some of that, don't you?

The thread title said there are solutions here, what are they?

No, I was looking for solutions. This is the spinoff to my original thread, which had over 800 posts, where I came out about what has happening to me, and all these dead people helped me to see what was going on, and to do something about it. And they prayed for me, and they checked din on me and I kept people updated - but Ben was upset by it, and asked that it be deleted. So after a lot of thought, it was.

The solutions for me have been:
1. Putting physical space between us.
2. Not taking his calls for a while - he was irrational and saying really hurtful stuff.
3. Going to marriage counseling together, and talking though stuff in a "safe space", with a mediator who was a disinterested third party. After our first session, Bob got us to come in separately, so that we could speak "extra" freely, and he got to know exactly where each of us was coming from.
4. Getting personal counseling for me. I don't know if you've heard of Battered Woman Syndrome? I had it. (and I wasn't even that battered!) Basically it means that the person who is abusing you is your filter - if they say you're bad, you're bad. If they say such and such is true, then it is. I wasn't expressing myself because I didn't have opinions. Everything centred around not setting him off. I felt I had no value as a person. Etc etc. My counselor is helping me get me back.

It's not about money. It's about time. They have a financial incentive to keep telling you that you are making progress when you aren't, and to keep coming when it might not even be working. In fact, if you really do make progress they have a financial incentive to slow that down so they can bleed you for a few more sessions.

If that is your attitude going in to counseling, I wouldn't bother going. Until you can look past the money, and any motives you might think your counselor has for saying what they are saying, you won't actually be listening to a word they say, and hence won't make any progress.

When you're the kind of guy that just wants to get issues worked out for your family, you tend to make that a priority and get a little agitated that some PhD with dreams of Bora Bora Island doesn't make it their priority as well.

Deep emotional issues are not something you can work out in five minutes, mate. Or even two sessions. Particularly not if you have a blindspot. Ben and I have been making progress, and have been to counseling regularly (weekly/fortnightly) but there are still some things he just does not get, and I can't tell him, because he still doesn't hear me. And Bob can't tell him, because it's Ben's blindspot, so he doesn't see the problem.

Getting agitated will make it take longer.

Marital problems can't be fixed like headaches. There's no "take two of these after food' solutions for emotional issues. How well something works will depend entirely on how much effort both parties put into dealing with all the issues, from their entire past together, no matter how painful. Until all the crap people carry around with them in their pasts is eliminated, it's very hard to move forwards.

Ask yourself - how much are you willing to give to make things right? How much of an effort is Snowbunny worth to you? Both of you need to be on the same page. If either one of you is turning up and looking at your watch every two minutes, it's not going to go well.

I hope both of you are able to sort out your issues. Just don't expect it to happen overnight. Because it won't.

 

[helenofbritain]

Continuing to pray for you and your family Caitlin.

Thanks FM!!

 

[Andoverpolo]

Hello.

Apparently you're Mr Snowbunny, so I'll answer your questions straight up with introductions

They have been working for us so far. There are some areas where I know Ben still has blind spots, and it's driving me nuts waiting for his little lightbulb to go off - but he may feel the same way about me I guess. Most of the time we make progress though.

Apparently he didn't know.l When I walked out he was mystified - he knew he got mad, but he didn't know he got THAT mad. We think he was repressing the memories of his violent behaviour. Considering how irrational he used to get when we were fighting, with hindsight I don't find the repression surprising. It also explained why he never apologised.

I walked out on November 12, 2007. So 2 1/2 months ago now. I am now living in our family home, because Angus starts school tomorrow, and it's nice and close. Ben is living with his mum. Before that Ben was living at our house, and me and the kids were at my mum's.

Hi,

Thanks. Did you figure out in your sessions how this repressing thing works? Or how to break it? How long are you going to be away from each other?

Well, MC Bob is not like that. Relationships Australia is partially funded by the government, so it has a sliding scale for sessions. Full fee is $50 for 1 and a bit hours (our longest was 1 3/4!) and it goes down from there. We pay $35 per session - and they are worth every penny.

I think I saw you say on another thread that you are worth half a billion dollars? I think your family is worth at least some of that, don't you?

Watch the accusations. My wife and kids are my life. Money isn't an issue. Time is my issue. I have very little time and no ability to free more up. I want results yesterday. I do not understand how I can see the problem, want to fix it with all the resources at my disposal but the best I seem to get from these flaky yuppy snake oil salesmen is "progress." My psychologists are all incompetent, we talk in circles, when I think I'm making progress all of a sudden they shoot me down. The minute I think I get it, they tell me I'm wrong. I usually leave more angry than when I come in.

No, I was looking for solutions. This is the spinoff to my original thread, which had over 800 posts, where I came out about what has happening to me, and all these dead people helped me to see what was going on, and to do something about it. And they prayed for me, and they checked din on me and I kept people updated - but Ben was upset by it, and asked that it be deleted. So after a lot of thought, it was.

My bad, I misunderstood. I thought this was like a support thread or something. Frankly I'm angry I have to talk about this stuff with complete strangers but if I don't sort out what is happening at home my life is going to fall apart.

The solutions for me have been:
1. Putting physical space between us.
2. Not taking his calls for a while - he was irrational and saying really hurtful stuff.
3. Going to marriage counseling together, and talking though stuff in a "safe space", with a mediator who was a disinterested third party. After our first session, Bob got us to come in separately, so that we could speak "extra" freely, and he got to know exactly where each of us was coming from.
4. Getting personal counseling for me. I don't know if you've heard of Battered Woman Syndrome? I had it. (and I wasn't even that battered!) Basically it means that the person who is abusing you is your filter - if they say you're bad, you're bad. If they say such and such is true, then it is. I wasn't expressing myself because I didn't have opinions. Everything centred around not setting him off. I felt I had no value as a person. Etc etc. My counselor is helping me get me back.

All of that takes time, isn't there something fast? No offense but from what you said your husband does not even know he is the problem. I know exactly what's wrong with me, I don't need 26 year olds with Ph.D's to tell me. What's the solution?

I'm PMing you about 4.

If that is your attitude going in to counseling, I wouldn't bother going. Until you can look past the money, and any motives you might think your counselor has for saying what they are saying, you won't actually be listening to a word they say, and hence won't make any progress.

It's not money, don't say that again. I don't trust any of these people. It's not like a doctor who can give you some pills and you will get better. These guys want to talk about your mother and whether you put your socks on the right way and somehow that's connected to me getting angry, blacking out and waking up with everybody staring at me? It doesn't even make sense, and it doesn't seem to work so that means it's not, why should I keep going when there might be workable alternatives elsewhere?

Deep emotional issues are not something you can work out in five minutes, mate. Or even two sessions. Particularly not if you have a blindspot. Ben and I have been making progress, and have been to counseling regularly (weekly/fortnightly) but there are still some things he just does not get, and I can't tell him, because he still doesn't hear me. And Bob can't tell him, because it's Ben's blindspot, so he doesn't see the problem.

Getting agitated will make it take longer.

Marital problems can't be fixed like headaches. There's no "take two of these after food' solutions for emotional issues. How well something works will depend entirely on how much effort both parties put into dealing with all the issues, from their entire past together, no matter how painful. Until all the crap people carry around with them in their pasts is eliminated, it's very hard to move forwards.

Ask yourself - how much are you willing to give to make things right? How much of an effort is Snowbunny worth to you? Both of you need to be on the same page. If either one of you is turning up and looking at your watch every two minutes, it's not going to go well.

I hope both of you are able to sort out your issues. Just don't expect it to happen overnight. Because it won't.

How long does it take then?

 

[MikeK]

How long does it take then?

The only answer is, "it takes until you're all better". I know that sucks and that you want instant resolution, but you have to confess that the very idea that you might find a better, faster way of getting results than what our scientists, statisticians, physiologists and psychiatrists have been able to come with screams of vanity. Perhaps this experience will be a much needed exercise in patience and humility - everybody could use more of those.

Your choices are to follow the road that you've been prescribed, and maybe make progress - or keep doing it your way, the way that has failed you in the past. Slow progress trumps no progress. You don't want to have to explain to your daughters someday that you would have got help, but it just took too long and you didn't see the value in talking about the things that your counselors wanted to talk about.

The more it hurts the more it works. Nothing's free - you know all that by now.

You're not a mental health expert. Accept that. You're a jet pilot. I'm not. I don't get why flight school takes so long. I mean, throttle up to go fast, point the plane where you want it to go, piece of cake. I could have that mastered by the end of the day. I've had lots of motorcycles that were way faster in the 1/4mile than an F-16 is, so I don't see what's so hard about it. Flight school is a waste of time - the instructors drag it out so that they can milk more money from the government's teat. It's a conspiracy, and I'm onto thir rouse.

See how silly that sounds?

 

[Fish and Bread]

My psychologists are all incompetent, we talk in circles

I think the standard psychologist model seems to be a person in some sort of a fancy office who's secretary lets you in and then the psychologist sits there for a 50 minute hour takes notes while asking stupid questions and not really solving much of everything. Granted, sometimes things do take a long time to solve, other times I think the psychologists are just being unnecessarily evasive. I don't know if it's because of the money, I tend to think they're just incompetent, or trained not to say much.

When I needed to find a psychologist because, as it turns out, I'm autistic (At the time I didn't know that but had an arrangement with relatives where I agreed to do these sessions because they suspected something was up), I actually wound up having to do a search and came up with a woman an hour's drive from my house because she was the first person I could find who didn't BS me. I called her and she actually picked up her own phone, answered questions in a straight-forward way, and spoke with me for about 10-15 minutes (before setting up an appointment) to let me figure out if we were a good fit and for her to figure out the same. And she didn't have an office environment with a secretary and people to deal with, and actually answered my questions and doesn't try to evade them constantly (Maybe because she deals with a lot of other Asperger's Syndrome folks as patients and knows we really really hate it when people aren't straight-forward with us), and even said she hated 50 minute hours and recommended long sessions.

So, basically, short answer: I agree with you that most psychologists are evasive and difficult to deal with, but marriage counseling or individual counseling to save a marriage is important, so I'd say call around, even try out different people for a session or two, and see if you can find one who doesn't BS you. It's like anything else, shop around and you find the best deal (In this case not necessarily financially, but in terms of someone you can deal with).

why should I keep going when there might be workable alternatives elsewhere?

That's a good question, but what's the workable alternative? I'm not saying there isn't one, but obviously if you'd come up with something, you'd be doing it, right? And there's no saying seeing a psychologist prevents you from coming up with something else. You can pursue plan A and try to think of a plan B while you're doing it. Maybe if you come up with a plan B, you can even do both at once. Sometimes you need multiple points of attack to bring down a complex problem.

 

[Miss Shelby]

dude, why don't you try going to Catholic Charities? They have counsellors and they won't be out to rob you blind. Or are one of those people who thinks that paying top dollar for fancy offices and several degrees on the wall, then you must be getting your money's worth?

 

[vle045]

It's not about money. It's about time. They have a financial incentive to keep telling you that you are making progress when you aren't, and to keep coming when it might not even be working. In fact, if you really do make progress they have a financial incentive to slow that down so they can bleed you for a few more sessions.

When you're the kind of guy that just wants to get issues worked out for your family, you tend to make that a priority and get a little agitated that some PhD with dreams of Bora Bora Island doesn't make it their priority as well.

In my experience, the opposite was true. i went to a counselor to make sure I was dealing with a tough situation ok. After two sessions, she told me that she didn't think I really needed counseling and that I was doing all the right things to cope with my losses. She also said that I was welcome to keep going if I realy felt that I needed it.

I suspect you may be a Type A personality. Those types typically want everything done "NOW". I worked for a guy like that. He literally had big posters on the wall that were just big bold black and white "NOW" posters. And he could never figure out why everyone else was the problem and they didn't want to work for him. He wanted everyone else to fit his mold. But it doesn't work that way. His "NOW" attitude got him removed from his position as CEO (and he was the founder of the company). His Board of Directors had him voted out and removed. Things got so much better in every way once he was out of the picture. He was given many opportunities to change his style, but he wasn't willing to work with others. Everything had to be done now, without putting the time and effort needed to do it right. Then he'd get mad because mistakes would be made due to lack of research and time.... go figure.

 

[helenofbritain]

***I've reread this, and it's full of classic Australian bluntness. Sorry if I offend. I'm calling a spade a spade. ***

Hi,

Thanks. Did you figure out in your sessions how this repressing thing works? Or how to break it?

Not really - that's for Ben's individual counseling to work out - it's his issue. Our marriage counseling sessions are for us - my sessions are for me - his sessions are for him. (When he decides to go to individual counseling anyway...)

How long are you going to be away from each other?

As long as it takes. Possibly quite a while.

Watch the accusations.

Sorry - I was trying to state a fact.

My wife and kids are my life. Money isn't an issue. Time is my issue. I have very little time and no ability to free more up.

Let's put this in perspective. I think you're studying law? So a semester is maybe 5 months? How long is the rest of your life going to be? 70 years? 840 months? If you HAD to, (and you can afford to) couldn't you take a semester off to work on your marriage and your family?

I want results yesterday.

You're going to need to change your attitude. You just plain WON'T get results yesterday.

When I walked out, Ben was expecting I'd be back in 2 weeks. He thought one session of counseling would fix our problems. Also, he was still in the abuser mindset - everything that was wrong with out marriage was my fault. He didn't need to change anything. We're slowly working on that. From my perspective, he STILL hasn't got that he needs to take some responsibility for our problems. While he doesn't think it's ALL my fault anymore, he still thinks it's mostly all my fault. But he is making progress. As am I.

You HAVE to be patient. Rushing through this process half-cocked is a recipe for disaster.

I do not understand how I can see the problem, want to fix it with all the resources at my disposal but the best I seem to get from these flaky yuppy snake oil salesmen is "progress." My psychologists are all incompetent

Maybe you should find a new one then. If you don't trust their advice, you're not going to take it, are you?

ALSO - do you have to see a psychologist necessarily? We're seeing trained counselors, not psychologists. My MIl is a psych... psychs are odd people... maybe see someone else.

we talk in circles, when I think I'm making progress all of a sudden they shoot me down. The minute I think I get it, they tell me I'm wrong. I usually leave more angry than when I come in.

Definitely time to see someone else.

BUT ALSO - time to rethink your attitude. You're going into the office thinking it's not going to work. That's why it's not walking. You're not giving yourself, the psych or the process a chance to work.

My bad, I misunderstood. I thought this was like a support thread or something. Frankly I'm angry I have to talk about this stuff with complete strangers but if I don't sort out what is happening at home my life is going to fall apart.

I sympathise. Do't be angry though... be pleased. The OBOBers are the best pray-ers on CF. Ask them to pray for you, Annette and your marriage. It will work wonders.

All of that takes time, isn't there something fast? No offense but from what you said your husband does not even know he is the problem. I know exactly what's wrong with me, I don't need 26 year olds with Ph.D's to tell me. What's the solution?

Not to put too fine a point on it, but I don't think you know that your biggest problem is that you want everything done yesterday, and are getting frustrated that it wasn't done yesterday, and are therefore spending your energy complaining about your lack of results, instead of working on yourself. I also think another problem you have is that you think you know better than the people who have been trained to know what's going on.

You think you know best. That's you're number one problem.

Also, if you know exactly what is wrong with you, why don't you just stop doing it? Oh, you can't just stspo? It's hard? You need help? Well, why don't you talk to counselor about it...

Do you see where I'm going with this?

It's not money, don't say that again. I don't trust any of these people. It's not like a doctor who can give you some pills and you will get better.

Exactly. There's you're problem right there. You don't trust your help and you want a pill. Well guess what? You NEED to trust them or it won't work - and listening to them and doing what they say will be "taking the pill."

These guys want to talk about your mother

Do you know why? Because our family of origin (FOI) is a really important part of our lives. The way we were raised and the homelife you had have a lasting impact on your life.

and whether you put your socks on the right way and somehow that's connected to me getting angry, blacking out and waking up with everybody staring at me? It doesn't even make sense, and it doesn't seem to work so that means it's not, why should I keep going when there might be workable alternatives elsewhere?

Blackout sound serious. Maybe you should stick with the psychs for you, and get a counselor for the marriage.

Where else do you see a "workable solution"? What do you see your alternatives as being?

How long does it take then?

As long as it takes until it is better. End of.

 

[HibernationElf]

Interesting thread

 

[Rebekka]

Interesting thread

If you see HoB, please give her a from me.

 

[HibernationElf]

If you see HoB, please give her a from me.

Will do

 

[Andoverpolo]

***I've reread this, and it's full of classic Australian bluntness. Sorry if I offend. I'm calling a spade a spade. ***

I appreciate honesty.

Not really - that's for Ben's individual counseling to work out - it's his issue. Our marriage counseling sessions are for us - my sessions are for me - his sessions are for him. (When he decides to go to individual counseling anyway...)

As long as it takes. Possibly quite a while.

Sorry - I was trying to state a fact.

Let's put this in perspective. I think you're studying law? So a semester is maybe 5 months? How long is the rest of your life going to be? 70 years? 840 months? If you HAD to, (and you can afford to) couldn't you take a semester off to work on your marriage and your family?

Law School isn't an issue, I already called off for this present semester. My job is different. It is illegal and dishonorable for me to leave at this time.

You're going to need to change your attitude. You just plain WON'T get results yesterday.

When I walked out, Ben was expecting I'd be back in 2 weeks. He thought one session of counseling would fix our problems. Also, he was still in the abuser mindset - everything that was wrong with out marriage was my fault. He didn't need to change anything. We're slowly working on that. From my perspective, he STILL hasn't got that he needs to take some responsibility for our problems. While he doesn't think it's ALL my fault anymore, he still thinks it's mostly all my fault. But he is making progress. As am I.

You HAVE to be patient. Rushing through this process half-cocked is a recipe for disaster.

Yea but I'm different. Nobody needs to convince me I'm the problem I already know that. Why shouldn't I want this fixed yesterday? Half the work is done, I just need to identify the solution and execute it. It's not Cancer for Christ's sake, the psychological cat and mouse games don't feel like a solution.

Maybe you should find a new one then. If you don't trust their advice, you're not going to take it, are you?

ALSO - do you have to see a psychologist necessarily? We're seeing trained counselors, not psychologists. My MIl is a psych... psychs are odd people... maybe see someone else.

Definitely time to see someone else.

BUT ALSO - time to rethink your attitude. You're going into the office thinking it's not going to work. That's why it's not walking. You're not giving yourself, the psych or the process a chance to work.

Other than psychologists who else is out there? What makes a counsellor any different?

I sympathise. Do't be angry though... be pleased. The OBOBers are the best pray-ers on CF. Ask them to pray for you, Annette and your marriage. It will work wonders.

No offense, but that's her way. Me and God aren't seeing eye to eye so much these days. Prayer is a crutch not a solution, it's just something to keep you comfortable.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but I don't think you know that your biggest problem is that you want everything done yesterday, and are getting frustrated that it wasn't done yesterday, and are therefore spending your energy complaining about your lack of results, instead of working on yourself. I also think another problem you have is that you think you know better than the people who have been trained to know what's going on.

You think you know best. That's you're number one problem.

Shouldn't I know best? A complete stranger can't know more about me than me and questions about my parents and professional goals aren't getting to the heart of the issue I want solved. If they just stopped dancing around the important things and addressed what needs to be fixed I'd be more open to their opinions, regardless of what I think of their professional credentials.

Also, if you know exactly what is wrong with you, why don't you just stop doing it? Oh, you can't just stspo? It's hard? You need help? Well, why don't you talk to counselor about it...

Do you see where I'm going with this?

Exactly. There's you're problem right there. You don't trust your help and you want a pill. Well guess what? You NEED to trust them or it won't work - and listening to them and doing what they say will be "taking the pill."

You're going right to where I am today. I could stop, if I knew what was going on, that's why I started talking to shrinks. The problem is they don't care about that issue, they want to talk about all this unrelated nonsense to sound cryptical and intelligent. It's like going to a doctor with a head cold and they ask you all these questions about chicken pox. I'm a Dartmouth grad - they aren't fooling me.

Do you know why? Because our family of origin (FOI) is a really important part of our lives. The way we were raised and the homelife you had have a lasting impact on your life.

What does the 'I' stand for? There isn't any history of abuse in my family, my father never shouted at my mother the way I do at my wife and he didn't threaten my mother or do any of the other things I do and he didn't have blackouts. My mother had other issues with alcohol but that's not related to this. Why dwell on the past, the problem is with us today not my parents yesterday. Besides my parents have a completely different relationship, they can barely stand each other and don't talk.

Blackout sound serious. Maybe you should stick with the psychs for you, and get a counselor for the marriage.

Where else do you see a "workable solution"? What do you see your alternatives as being?

As long as it takes until it is better. End of.

I thought the title of this thread meant that there were workable alternatives here. I misread, my bad. And I also thought it was a clever way to tell Jayda what I'm thinking without telling her what I'm thinking. I'm looking at a list of options with almost everything crossed out.

 

[MikeK]

I'm a Dartmouth grad - they aren't fooling me.

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

Exhibit A: Laura Ingraham.

And I also thought it was a clever way to tell Jayda what I'm thinking without telling her what I'm thinking.

Just tell her what you're thinking. No need to be cryptic.

It is illegal and dishonorable for me to leave at this time.

Do you realy think there's any dishonor in recusing yourself from your job until you can figure out why you can't control your emotions and can't keep blacking out? Frankly, I'm suprised they even let you serve. Does your superior officer know all about the drinking until you pass out, the abuse of your wife, the balacking out of unthinkable behaviors?

 

[Fish and Bread]

Does the military have it's own counselors who are active-duty members of the armed forces? Maybe one of them would be more straight-forward and to the point, if they exist.

 

[Andoverpolo]

I'd prefer to not discuss my job.