long hair for women

[2ducklow]

Originally Posted by Cuddles222

'Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?' 1Cor.11:14


The Koine Greek word here for 'nature' according to Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament means; native conviction or knowledge, what is learned by instruction and accomplished by training or proscribed by law.

The male Aphrodite prostitutes wore their hair long or wore long wigs. The women prostitutes wore their hair cropped short. The all female religion of the Adonis religion, depending on the time of the year, shaved their heads in mourning over his death. So when many of these pagan worshippers converted to Christ, well, we see why we have 1Corinthians chapter 11.
​

Well, here is where we finally find if this Old Testament practice is binding for us today. Paul called this hair/headship thing 'custom' not commandment/s to be carried over into the New Testament. Everywhere Paul went to evangelize he first started with the Jews in that town, then, he preached to the Gentiles there. Bible commentators say he wanted to keep the Jewish converts from being discouraged by letting them keep the Sabbath Day for their worship to Christ along with their attire (veils,etc).

Paul used this perfectly with the former pagan prostitute problem at Corinth.

so what you're saying means is that women don't need a sign of authority on their head because of the angels because there aren't any more short haired female religous prostitutes. what you're saying also means that the woman was not made for the man, women don't need a sign of authority on their head because of the angels, that a womans hair isn't given to her as a covering , that the woman wasn't made second as all the preceding scriptures to 1 cor. 11.10 say because there aren't any more short haired female religous prostitutes anywhere. I don't find your interpretation plausible because of the above affect it has on the scriptures preceeding 1 cor. 11.10.


also, what you're saying means that it's ok to be like short haired female religous prostitutes now cause there aren't any around anymore.

I interpret the verse to mean that even if you don't accept all the reasons previously given for why men should have short hair and women should have long hair, you should do it because the church doesn't have the custom of long hair for men and short hair for women.

I

 

[Xpistis sopheiaX]

"what you're saying also means that the woman was not made for the man, women don't need a sign of authority on their head because of the angels, that a womans hair isn't given to her as a covering , that the woman wasn't made second as all the preceding scriptures"

Your certainty that angels don't want to be around people with the wrong hair length is baffling, but if that is your belief than so be it. If you want your hair short and your woman's hair long then that is your business.

What isn't your business is expecting other churches to regulate their parishioner's hair length. If you want to enforce this kind of law in your own church then that is your choice. If it is spiritually fruitful then others will follow suit.

However I wouldn't anticipate many if any others to follow. Wisdom understands that Christ's teaching is love first and foremost, not the enforcing of laws first and love in the backseat. One has to come before the other b/c law and love are not equals.

Personally, I'm certain God understands your spiritual state is infinitely more important than your manner of dress, the fact that is even a matter of debate is something I find mind-boggling:

Mathew 23:27 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean."

If hair length and alcohol consumption are the issues you consider the most incredibly important spiritual problems facing the world, then those are your battles to live and die on. I would just say don't be surprised when it is just you preaching by yourself, and no one else cares.

Finally I'll once again reiterate "Let the dead bury their own dead." Know what is important and what is arbitrary. If you can't tell one from the other it could destroy you, and even worse, drive others away from Christ. (Can you imagine a non-believer walking into a church and being told to leave b/c their hair is too long or too short to be there?) You have to decide what is most important to you, the minutia of laws or love. Obviously quite a few people still believe laws are more important.

"Paul used this perfectly with the former pagan prostitute problem at Corinth."

I'm fairly certain all logic is out the window with this thread, and I don't see any purpose in arguing it further.

 

[DandyDandelion]

Jesus is always depicted as having hair longer than that of the average male's "short hair." Should we kick Him out of the church?

 

[brinny]

God wants long hair on women and short hair on men.

1 Corinthians 11:15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.

long hair on men is not only wrong (see icon pic, i.e. it's a man with short hair, aka moi) it may be an abomination before God because it may be that it is "that which pertaineth to a woman".


Deuteronomy 22:5 The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.

2nd point.

Should a woman be kicked out of church for having short hair?
I say yes.

should a man be kicked out of church for having long hair?

I say yes again.




There is no argument that God wants men to have short hair and women long hair, that is clear from scripture.

Short hair is cool, you don't even need a comb. feels like a brush when you rub your hand over it. one thing less to worry about when getting dressed in the morning. ya don't have to look for a comb, put on hair lotion, or even wash it as often. Hum, wonder how I can stop my beard hairs from growing.

i s'pose the women that have lost their hair through chemo are just outta luck, eh?

 

[Xpistis sopheiaX]

i s'pose the women that have lost their hair through chemo are just outta luck, eh?

If you are just playing "letter of the law" then yes that would be where that sort of logic leads.

I've seen women who are totally bald with shaved heads etc who are very feminine and incredibly attractive. The idea that hair length indicates some sort of state of sexual "correctness," or that women with long hair are always more attractive, is one I find incredibly ridiculous.

 

[2ducklow]

Your certainty that angels don't want to be around people with the wrong hair length is baffling, but if that is your belief than so be it. If you want your hair short and your woman's hair long then that is your business.

What isn't your business is expecting other churches to regulate their parishioner's hair length. If you want to enforce this kind of law in your own church then that is your choice. If it is spiritually fruitful then others will follow suit.

Some day it will bear undeniable proof. I don't need to wait however. Many christians observe the hair length scriptures, it isn't just me.

However I wouldn't anticipate many if any others to follow. Wisdom understands that Christ's teaching is love first and foremost, not the enforcing of laws first and love in the backseat. One has to come before the other b/c law and love are not equals.

Personally, I'm certain God understands your spiritual state is infinitely more important than your manner of dress, the fact that is even a matter of debate is something I find mind-boggling:

Mathew 23:27 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean."

If hair length and alcohol consumption are the issues you consider the most incredibly important spiritual problems facing the world, then those are your battles to live and die on. I would just say don't be surprised when it is just you preaching by yourself, and no one else cares.

Finally I'll once again reiterate "Let the dead bury their own dead." Know what is important and what is arbitrary. If you can't tell one from the other it could destroy you, and even worse, drive others away from Christ. (Can you imagine a non-believer walking into a church and being told to leave b/c their hair is too long or too short to be there?) You have to decide what is most important to you, the minutia of laws or love. Obviously quite a few people still believe laws are more important.

"Paul used this perfectly with the former pagan prostitute problem at Corinth."

I'm fairly certain all logic is out the window with this thread, and I don't see any purpose in arguing it further.

 

[2ducklow]

i s'pose the women that have lost their hair through chemo are just outta luck, eh?

wigs, they got wigs nowdays. Or bonnets, either one will work.

 

[2ducklow]

Jesus is always depicted as having hair longer than that of the average male's "short hair." Should we kick Him out of the church?

Jesus had short hair. the depections all stem from michael angelo who got a long haird bum off the street and figured that's what christ looked like. so he painted the man and called the painting a painting of christ. Christians have though Jesus is a long haired hippy type ever since.

here's another hint, Jesus didn't have blonde hair and blue eyes. He's always depicted that way so jesus was like a norwegian right? It's gotta be cause that's how he's depicted, right?

from scripture I know that Jesus didn't have long hair because scripture says it's a shame for a man to have long hair. Jesus wouldn't do anything shameful.

 

[Xpistis sopheiaX]

Some day it will bear undeniable proof. I don't need to wait however. Many christians observe the hair length scriptures, it isn't just me.

It is true, when it comes to religion there are many white-washed tombs.

I would expect the fact that your appearance doesn't relate to your spiritual state will be proved undeniably true. Until that all we can do is just wait and do our best.

 

[Xpistis sopheiaX]

Jesus had short hair. the depections all stem from michael angelo who got a long haird bum off the street and figured that's what christ looked like. so he painted the man and called the painting a painting of christ. Christians have though Jesus is a long haired hippy type ever since.

here's another hint, Jesus didn't have blonde hair and blue eyes. He's always depicted that way so jesus was like a norwegian right? It's gotta be cause that's how he's depicted, right?

from scripture I know that Jesus didn't have long hair because scripture says it's a shame for a man to have long hair. Jesus wouldn't do anything shameful.

You don't know what Jesus looked like so it's not accurate to say you know how long his hair was.

I'm personally hoping he kept half his head shaved and the other half down to his waist.

 

[2ducklow]

It is true, when it comes to religion there are many white-washed tombs.

I would expect the fact that your appearance doesn't relate to your spiritual state will be proved undeniably true. Until that all we can do is just wait and do our best.

So if you have pasted dung all over you're head and wear a bikini bathing suit to church, and paint your toenails and nails pink, and color your teeth purple, and chew tobacco and carry a spittoon with you to church, it says nothing about your spiritual state, right?

suppose you wrap your entire body with grocery store plastic bags for clothing, that says nothing about your spirtual state right?

suppose you wear nothing, suppose your appearance is the same as the day you were born and you go to church or out in public like that, that says nothing about your spiritu al state right?

wear a diaper to church says nothing aobut your spirutal state right?

 

[DandyDandelion]

Jesus had short hair. the depections all stem from michael angelo who got a long haird bum off the street and figured that's what christ looked like. so he painted the man and called the painting a painting of christ. Christians have though Jesus is a long haired hippy type ever since.

here's another hint, Jesus didn't have blonde hair and blue eyes. He's always depicted that way so jesus was like a norwegian right? It's gotta be cause that's how he's depicted, right?

from scripture I know that Jesus didn't have long hair because scripture says it's a shame for a man to have long hair. Jesus wouldn't do anything shameful.

Actually, I've never seen Him depicted as having blond hair and blue eyes.

With all the things going on this world, I honestly believe the length of a person's hair is the last thing on God's mind. And who are we to judge anyway? That's God's job. We shouldn't kick anyone out of a church when they have just as much a right to worship as anyone else there. Kicking someone out of a church, especially for something so miniscule, is like saying God is turning His back on them, which contradicts scripture. We should leave the judging to God because we're no better than anyone we judge.

 

[Xpistis sopheiaX]

So if you have pasted dung all over you're head and wear a bikini bathing suit to church, and paint your toenails and nails pink, and color your teeth purple, and chew tobacco and carry a spittoon with you to church, it says nothing about your spiritual state, right?

suppose you wrap your entire body with grocery store plastic bags for clothing, that says nothing about your spirtual state right?

suppose you wear nothing, suppose your appearance is the same as the day you were born and you go to church or out in public like that, that says nothing about your spiritu al state right?

wear a diaper to church says nothing aobut your spirutal state right?

No I wouldn't. Mental illness isn't related to your spiritual state.

 

[Xpistis sopheiaX]

We should leave the judging to God because we're no better than anyone we judge.

I wish more people understood this.

 

[2ducklow]

Actually, I've never seen Him depicted as having blond hair and blue eyes.

you can find a whole bunch of them at this web site.
http://spiritlessons.com/Documents/Jesus_Pictures/Jesus_070.jpg

With all the things going on this world, I honestly believe the length of a person's hair is the last thing on God's mind. And who are we to judge anyway? That's God's job. We shouldn't kick anyone out of a church when they have just as much a right to worship as anyone else there. Kicking someone out of a church, especially for something so miniscule, is like saying God is turning His back on them, which contradicts scripture. We should leave the judging to God because we're no better than anyone we judge.

how much of the word of God should we ignore because of what is going on in the world? 1 cor.. 11 is the word of God.

 

[2ducklow]

No I wouldn't. Mental illness isn't related to your spiritual state.

people who aren't mentally ill do those sorts of things at times. some people do those sorts of things to iritate others. people sometimes wear bizzare clothing just to get a rise out of others. someone interested in irritating others has some spiritual areas he needs growth in. so appearance can signify spiritual status. A woman who has short hair is stating that she doesn't care what 1 cor. 11 says, that is spiritually significant.

 

[Xpistis sopheiaX]

"some people do those sorts of things to iritate others. people sometimes wear bizzare clothing just to get a rise out of others."

If they get a rise out of you, it is your fault. You are the one who needs to grow just as much or even more so.

Mathew 7:3 "And why worry about a speck in your friend's eye when you have a log in your own?

"A woman who has short hair is stating that she doesn't care what 1 cor. 11 says, that is spiritually significant. "

More power to her.

 

[2ducklow]

"some people do those sorts of things to iritate others. people sometimes wear bizzare clothing just to get a rise out of others."

If they get a rise out of you, it is your fault. You are the one who needs to grow just as much or even more so.

then you have just agreed with me unknowingly because you're admiting that people sometimes wear bizzare clothing just to get a rise out of people. You are claiming that they need spiritual growth.

Mathew 7:3 "And why worry about a speck in your friend's eye when you have a log in your own?

saying hair length has or doesn't have any spiritual significance isn't judging people. .

"A woman who has short hair is stating that she doesn't care what 1 cor. 11 says, that is spiritually significant. "

More power to her.

so it's good to ignore scripture is what you're saying here.

 

[Xpistis sopheiaX]

"then you have just agreed with me unknowingly because you're admiting that people sometimes wear bizzare clothing just to get a rise out of people."

Oh NO! I fell right into your amazing trap!

"You are claiming that they need spiritual growth. something I never said."

I said if they get a rise out of you it is your fault; if they need to grow, you need to grow more..

"saying hair length has or doesn't have any spiritual significance isn't judging people."

What is your point?

"so it's good to ignore scripture is what you're saying here."

It is good to question arbitrary rules and it is good to not be a white-washed tomb. It is good to know the difference between what is important and what isn't.

It is better to show love first and not worry about the minutia of the law. It is better to let God judge and not concern yourself with judging others.

Mathew 25: 35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me, 36naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me.’ 37Then the righteous* will answer him and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? 39When did we see you ill or in prison, and visit you?’ 40i And the king will say to them in reply, ‘Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.’

Mathew 7:3 "And why worry about a speck in your friend's eye when you have a log in your own?

Mathew 23:27 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean."

Let the dead bury their own dead.

 

[2ducklow]

"then you have just agreed with me unknowingly because you're admiting that people sometimes wear bizzare clothing just to get a rise out of people."

Oh NO! I fell right into your amazing trap!

probably a trap set by my angels for you.

"You are claiming that they need spiritual growth. something I never said."

I said if they get a rise out of you it is your fault; if they need to grow, you need to grow more..

you said they need to grow.

If they get a rise out of you, it is your fault. You are the one who needs to grow just as much or even more so.

so you're saying hair length has no spiritual significance but a clown suit does.

"saying hair length has or doesn't have any spiritual significance isn't judging people."

What is your point?

"so it's good to ignore scripture is what you're saying here."

It is good to question arbitrary rules and it is good to not be a white-washed tomb. It is good to know the difference between what is important and what isn't.

1 cor. 11 does not contain arbitrary rules. and i'm not a white washed tomb because I believe 1 cor. 11 to be the word of God.

I consider 1 cor. 11 important. In fact I consider ever last word of the bible to be important. "Man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God". that includes 1 cor 11.

It is better to show love first and not worry about the minutia of the law.

where exactly have you been showing love?

It is better to let God judge and not concern yourself with judging others.

your the one insinuating that I'm a hypocrite, white washed tomb, pharsee, etc. that sounds like a judement to me.

Mathew 25: 35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me, 36naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me.’ 37Then the righteous* will answer him and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? 39When did we see you ill or in prison, and visit you?’ 40i And the king will say to them in reply, ‘Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.’

Mathew 7:3 "And why worry about a speck in your friend's eye when you have a log in your own?

Mathew 23:27 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean."

Let the dead bury their own dead.

1 cor 11. 1 Corinthians 11:1 Become imitators of me,--even as, I also, [am] of Christ. 2 Now I praise you, that, in all things, ye have me in remembrance, and, even as I delivered unto you the instructions, ye hold them fast. 3 But I wish you to know--that, the head of every man, is, the Christ, and, the head of a woman, is, the man; and, the head of the Christ, is, God. 4 Every man, praying, or prophesying, having anything upon his head, putteth to shame his head; 5 But, every woman, praying, or prophesying, with her head, unveiled, putteth to shame her head,--for it is, one and the same, with her having been shaven. 6 For, if a woman doth not veil herself, let her also be shorn; but, if it were a shame in a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be veiled. 7 For, a man, indeed, ought not to be veiling his head, being, the image and glory of God,--but, the woman, is the glory of man; 8 For, man, is not, of woman, but, woman, of man; 9 For also man was not created, for the sake of the woman, but woman, for the sake of the man. 10 For this cause, ought the woman to have, permission, upon her head, because of the messengers. 11 Howbeit, neither is woman apart from man, nor man apart from woman--in the Lord; 12 For, just as the woman is of the man, so, also the man, is through means of the woman;--but, all things, are of God. 13 Among your own selves, judge ye,--Is it becoming for a woman,--unveiled, to be praying unto God? 14 Doth not, even nature herself, teach you--that, if, a man, have long hair, it is a dishonour to him; 15 But, if, a woman, have long hair, it is a glory to her, for, her long hair, instead of a veil, hath been given to her. 16 But, if anyone thinketh to be contentious, we, have no such custom,--nor yet the assemblies of God.

the scriptures you quoted don't negate 1 cor. 11.