Living Without Recognition

[Pliny the Elder]

I will leave others alone, but when I am asked to VOTE on the situation, I will vote with my beliefs guiding me. How can I vote for something that I believe is wrong, immoral, or perverse? I can't.

Then yes you are a bigot. I do plenty of things you would consider wrong immoral or perverse and it is none of your business and you cannot dictate what I do or do not do.

The same argument about statistics are what many racists rely on when they try to justify their bigotry. Statistics can be twisted and spun to say whatever you want. Do you have another argument as to how you are any different from a bigot when you profiled old people in your earlier statement?

Any old person that voted for prop 8 is a bigot plain and simple and it is a fact that when they die the vote will change, that is not bigotry that is a fact.
If I said that old people should be euthanized that would be bigotry.

 

[Morcova]

Unlike this hypothetical "amendment," the ban on gay marriage was voted on and fairly passed by the majority of the population.

Isn't it a great thing that america isn't a democracy, where injustices like prop 8 can be overturned?

 

[Pliny the Elder]

Isn't it a great thing that america isn't a democracy, where injustices like prop 8 can be overturned?

They do not seem to realize that we are a democratic republic not a straight democracy and they majority cannot choose what rights are given to the minority.

 

[Morcova]

Have you no self-respect? Why do you insist on describing yourself in the lowliest of terms? Not just you... Christians in general.

~Barbara

That's a very easy question to answer, it's a cult, and the objective of this cult it to ensure that everyone believes that they are without worth unless you are a member of this cult.

 

[angellica]

Then yes you are a bigot. I do plenty of things you would consider wrong immoral or perverse and it is none of your business and you cannot dictate what I do or do not do.


Any old person that voted for prop 8 is a bigot plain and simple and it is a fact that when they die the vote will change, that is not bigotry that is a fact.
If I said that old people should be euthanized that would be bigotry.

I can if it goes to a vote, like the gay marriage thing did.


You said that once the old people die off, prop 8 will be overturned. I asked you how your profiling people by age is any different than a racist profiling people by race. You have not proven that it is different.

 

[Morcova]

Any gay man in America who is a citizen can marry a woman. Same goes for any lesbian woman who is a citizen - she can marry any man she wants. We are not denying them anything that we ourselves don't have.

Cute.

And oh so false.

 

[geekgirlkelli]

I will leave others alone, but when I am asked to VOTE on the situation, I will vote with my beliefs guiding me. How can I vote for something that I believe is wrong, immoral, or perverse? I can't.

Wait a minute... You don't understand that there are two issues at stake here. The first is your view of homosexuality and whether it is wrong. The second is your view of taking someone else's civil rights away. Whether you agree with homosexuality or not, ethically and morally I believe your decision to vote someone else's civil rights away is reprehensible.

I don't believe the Bible and I don't like the way so many people twist it around to use it against me, but if a vote ever came up to ban the Bible I would vote AGAINST that proposition because morally and ethically it is not my place to tell you that you can't read it or live by it. As much as I dislike most churches I would also speak out and vote against a measure to outlaw them.

Too bad you can't give me the same courtesy. No, your thoughts of homosexual ickiness trumped the ethical and moral thing to do.

 

[angellica]

Wait a minute... You don't understand that there are two issues at stake here. The first is your view of homosexuality and whether it is wrong. The second is your view of taking someone else's civil rights away. Whether or not you agree with homosexuality or not, ethically and morally I believe your decision to vote someone else's civil rights away is reprehensible.

I don't believe the Bible and I don't like the way so many people twist it around to use it against me, but if a vote ever came up to ban the Bible I would vote AGAINST that proposition because morally and ethically it is not my place to tell you that you can't read it or live by it. As much as I dislike most churches I would also speak out and vote against a measure to outlaw them.

Too bad you can't give me the same courtesy. No, your thoughts of homosexual ickiness trumped the ethical and moral thing to do.

You do not understand. I cannot vote for this bill and say that it is okay for gay people to get married. I will not have anything to do with that. I will not encourage people to continue in that behavior. A guilt trip will not work on me.

 

[Chajara]

You do not understand. I cannot vote for this bill and say that it is okay for gay people to get married. I will not have anything to do with that. I will not encourage people to continue in that behavior. A guilt trip will not work on me.

Would you vote for a bill that would take away the rights for any non-Christian to marry, since marriage is a Christian thing that God ordained? Why or why not?

 

[geekgirlkelli]

You do not understand. I cannot vote for this bill and say that it is okay for gay people to get married. I will not have anything to do with that. I will not encourage people to continue in that behavior. A guilt trip will not work on me.

Yes, I do understand. You think your personal morals trump the rights of others. No guilt trip intended or needed. You made it loud and clear to me and the rest of the world. Just remember, you reap what you sow. Someday atheists may outnumber Christians in this country. Don't say it won't happen because it's already happened in many formerly Christian-dominant countries, such as England. And then what? The day one of your rights is taken from you, remember what you said here and weep.

 

[Spherical Time]

The argument is that we are not denying gay people anything that we ourselves don't have. Any gay person can marry someone of the opposite sex. They have the same right as us. If they choose not to use it, so be it.

How convenient. You're denying others things that you don't want.

I don't want to be a Christian. I guess I think that it should be illegal to be one.

/No I don't.
//But then again, I'm glad not to be what you are.

 

[Pliny the Elder]

You do not understand. I cannot vote for this bill and say that it is okay for gay people to get married. I will not have anything to do with that. I will not encourage people to continue in that behavior. A guilt trip will not work on me.

I hope I never have to associate with you or anyone else that believes this misguided nonsense and the world will be a much better place when people like you go the way of the Dodo bird.

Whether you like it or not we are not far from the rights of gay people to get married nationwide will be a reality and I for one will enjoy all of the whining coming from your side.

 

[angellica]

Would you vote for a bill that would take away the rights for any non-Christian to marry, since marriage is a Christian thing that God ordained? Why or why not?

No, I would not vote for that bill. Common sense tells me that it would be too difficult and too many loopholes to define "Christian" and get anyone to agree on it. But as long as it is a man and a woman, they can get married.

 

[Freodin]

I hope I never have to associate with you or anyone else that believes this misguided nonsense and the world will be a much better place when people like you go the way of the Dodo bird.

Whether you like it or not we are not far from the rights of gay people to get married nationwide will be a reality and I for one will enjoy all of the whining coming from your side.

Don´t be so harsh. Freedom of speach and vote is one of the achievements that Americans did get right... one of the few.

So if she cannot vote for that proposal because of reasons of conscience, she cannot. It is her right.

But she should be aware that there are no rational reasons to do that, and that her basic position is in fact rather dubious.

 

[angellica]

I hope I never have to associate with you or anyone else that believes this misguided nonsense and the world will be a much better place when people like you go the way of the Dodo bird.

Whether you like it or not we are not far from the rights of gay people to get married nationwide will be a reality and I for one will enjoy all of the whining coming from your side.

Hope in one hand and ___ in the other and see which one fills up first.

Anyway, I guess you ran out of arguments, so it's down to comparing me to a "Dodo bird."

 

[angellica]

Don´t be so harsh. Freedom of speach and vote is one of the achievements that Americans did get right... one of the few.

So if she cannot vote for that proposal because of reasons of conscience, she cannot. It is her right.

But she should be aware that there are no rational reasons to do that, and that her basic position is in fact rather dubious.

It does not surprise me that someone who is on the other side of the argument would consider my position dubious. I, of course, feel the same way about your position.

 

[geekgirlkelli]

Angellica: I find it pretty ironic that you align yourself with the Libertarian party politically, yet you would vote for a measure like Prop 8. I myself am a registered Libertarian and have been for 6 years. Do you even know what Libertarians stand for? Do you know what Libertarian values are? I doubt you do. Here's some reading for you. You may want to reconsider your party affiliation: http://www.libertarianism.com/definitions.htm

 

[Spherical Time]

Angellica: I find it pretty ironic that you align yourself with the Libertarian party politically, yet you would vote for a measure like Prop 8. I myself am a registered Libertarian and have been for 6 years. Do you even know what Libertarians stand for? Do you know what Libertarian values are? I doubt you do. Here's some reading for you. You may want to reconsider your party affiliation: http://www.libertarianism.com/definitions.htm

Hey now. It's really confusing. The Constitution party wants to destroy the constitution. The GOP "fiscal conservatives" spend more money than anyone and can't balance a budget to save their lives. Since there are so many "libertarians" here on CF, it's just plain mean to bring definitions into it.

Anyway, I guess you ran out of arguments, so it's down to comparing me to a "Dodo bird."

Not exactly, but close!

 

[Freodin]

It does not surprise me that someone who is on the other side of the argument would consider my position dubious. I, of course, feel the same way about your position.

I don´t think I have stated my position to you, so I don´t know how you would feel about it. But perhaps you feel that every position an Atheist might hold is dubious... which is in turn a dubious position in itself.

But I´ll try to explain:
What I, as a supporter of same-gender-marriages, try to do is defend what I see as a basic right: the choice of people to form a family with a person of their respective choice. "Family" here means regarding in a legal sense, the only meaning that a law or governmental sposoring can have.

Now this is a right that is denied to a minority that is, again per law, protected from "the majority". You cannot, by vote, deny them this right.
And for that people try to bring examples that you would agree with: portraying such a right withheld from others that you agree with. They do that to show you that your position is not based on legal reasons or rational reasons... simply because you do not like the group in question.

 

[Pliny the Elder]

Hope in one hand and ___ in the other and see which one fills up first.

Anyway, I guess you ran out of arguments, so it's down to comparing me to a "Dodo bird."

I have not run out of actual factual data such as the CA Supreme Court has already defined homosexuality as a minority status thus deserving the protections that go with that status, but regardless of what I or the law says you will hold to your ignorant and bigoted viewpoints so I am wasting my time trying to convince you otherwise. I am just curious as to how you would treat a child of yours that turned out to be gay.