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Life is a death sentence: Predestination vs Freewill

Discussion in 'Salvation (Soteriology)' started by theoneinsidethezero, Oct 27, 2017.

  1. DreamerOfTheHeart

    DreamerOfTheHeart Love is the Foundation of Truth

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    I think I said this before, but where God lives, in deep darkness (recently found by human beings, no doubt by no little grace)... in the "black hole at the beginning of time" (ref, for instance: The Black Hole at the Beginning of Time )...

    There is the day where there is neither light nor darkness. A day the Lord knows.

    ('6 On that day there will be neither sunlight nor cold, frosty darkness. 7 It will be a unique day—a day known only to the Lord—with no distinction between day and night. When evening comes, there will be light.' Zechariah 14:6-7)

    Come very, very far from there to mere human beings on planet earth, and there is great polarity. Great light and great darkness.

    For God, this has all already happened, as He is Light and so far in our future, and far in our past. And today.

    Otherwise, everything happens for a good reason. There are many scriptures that speak towards this.

    Ultimately, it is for the children, just as it is with any parent.
     
  2. theoneinsidethezero

    theoneinsidethezero LAMENT - MENTAL

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    This is great stuff! I remember this verse in Zechariah and always hoped one day I'd see it. 'no distinction between day and night' reminds me of when Genesis speaks of God separated light from darkness. Doesn't that imply they were once one?

    I will check out the link above too. Thanks!
     
  3. Geralt

    Geralt Reformed Supporter

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    "do we really have freewill to do anything about it?"

    depends on your definition of "freewill", but if you like not to die and is offended that you will die eventually, then it is simply imagination.
     
  4. theoneinsidethezero

    theoneinsidethezero LAMENT - MENTAL

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    I kinda get what you are saying here but I have to say it's a little hard to follow. Feel free to restate this if you don't mind. Sounds like it might be pretty insightful. Thanks.
     
  5. DreamerOfTheHeart

    DreamerOfTheHeart Love is the Foundation of Truth

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    I... actually have seen it before. But, must have been a vision, as I had my wife out there and asked her if she saw the moon or sun, and she did. I did not.

    Though, as we have our inner, transfigured self in us living at or beyond the speed of light, anything is possible.

    ... on genesis...

    1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

    3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.


    So, I do not know. I do know that the Spirit hovering over the waters meant that God could see both the darkness and the waters.

    I tend to think as before anyone else, there was eternal consciousness in the void. Words or images could have been created, and then by words or images, or both, others. And so on.

    That is from visions, however, true or not, I do not know, probably.

    Much communication is rhetorical or indirect, or 'what you need to know now'.
     
  6. theoneinsidethezero

    theoneinsidethezero LAMENT - MENTAL

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    Interesting thoughts. Regarding Genesis has anyone ever considered this: Start in John like this:

    'I n the beginning was the word 'I' (see it at the beginning of the sentence) and 'I' was with God and 'I' was God. 'I' was with God in the beginning. Put that insight together with Psalm 82:6 that says 'I say ye are gods, sons and daughters of the most high.' How is all this possible. Watch and read Genesis again with me keeping in mind discovery consists not in seeking new lands but seeing with new eyes or 'I's' in this case lol:

    'In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth' Luke 17:21 KJV says the kingdom of heaven is within man and Genesis 2:7 says God made man from the dust of the Earth.

    'Now the earth was formless and void and darkness was over the surface of the deep.' Can you picture the formation of a human embryo that is 'formless and void' in the mothers womb where darkness and the deep reside.

    And here comes the spirit hovering over the waters to put the kingdom in the embryo when god said 'Let there be light' as God is light.

    More to say on that but I think your mind can wrap your head around the rest of what I am trying to say there. It feels an awful lot like we were all with God in the beginning.

    I end with this. I think the tree of the knowledge of good and evil surrounds the tree of life and both are in the midst of each and every one of us as the human brain. Just look at how much the brain looks like a tree when out of the skull of humanity. And Christ was crucified at golgotha place of what? THE SKULL. Your skull. The temple of the Word where all the stories of the Bible are happening in each and every one of us. I know I have already said this but it's worth repeating here the flaming sword spinning everywhich way around the tree of life is symbolized by the crown of thorns around the mind of Christ as if to say when seeking the mind of Christ our way will be blocked with thorns and thistles.

    The human brain being the tree of life would explain why we cannot reach out our hand and grab from it. But here is the thing we can eat from the tree of life if can mentally grasp what the Bible is really saying...but as we all know the truth is heavily guarded.

    Okay I'm rambling again. Sorry...
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2017
  7. DreamerOfTheHeart

    DreamerOfTheHeart Love is the Foundation of Truth

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    Lol... some interesting stuff. I am aware of how there are symbols of procreation in the beginning. But Jesus said the gods are not all, but those through whom the word of God came. Prophets, angels, Christians.

    Job reveals there were many sons of god / angels, before creation. They watched and cheered in joy.

    But, right or wrong, good stuff to think on.

    I tend to view the angel protecting the tree of life as the very angel of jesus through whom revelation came. aka, m the archangel. Jesus "guardian angel" which are ultimatelt our inner higher self, our transfigured self.

    But, maybe some errors there.

    The most shockin bit about the beginning I wont say as it is kept highly secret.

    (most shocking which i know, anyway.)

    But will have to consult w my angel on these other things u say lol
     
  8. Geralt

    Geralt Reformed Supporter

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    sure. every person who defends freewill presumes the freedom of choice. but our choices really are 'constrained' or 'limited' by our own human ability and our level/lack of understanding.

    ex:
    - people will to fly or travel the universe in the blinck of an eye or will to conquer death and live forever- this is their choice. but this will is opposite to reality since our human nature is unable to do such feats. so in this regard, human 'freewill' or the human 'willing' is not the human 'able', for he cannot act on what he wills.

    - people can only will what is within their boundary of understanding. no one makes a choice on something he/she does not understand. this inability to understand limits free will, thus the will is not totally free.

     
  9. Paidiske

    Paidiske Bodily member Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    red-strawberry-hat-wool-beret-girls-winter-wear20667.jpg
    MOD HAT ON
    This thread has been moved to the Salvation (Soteriology) forum.
    Please note and abide by the SOP of this forum.​

    MOD HAT OFF
     
  10. fhansen

    fhansen Oldbie

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    Because we haven't read the book which hasn't yet been written we experience it as unwritten-or written as we actually live out its story line. And so the book doesn't have to be written beforehand by us; for all practical purposes, from our perspective in real time, it's written as we live it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2017
  11. shakewell

    shakewell Active Member

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    I can remember my future: it's home with the Lord for eternity. I wrote that future myself by receiving the Lord Jesus Christ as my Savior.
    Have you forgotten your future? It's either heaven or hell. You need to write your future in the present. Now is the accepted time, now is the day of salvation.
     
  12. shakewell

    shakewell Active Member

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    The will is 100% sovereign over the choices that are submitted to it. Something beyond the ability of the person to understand is simply not submitted to his will; but his will remains totally free.
     
  13. Geralt

    Geralt Reformed Supporter

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    of course he is 'free' within the boundaries of his own understanding and choices. like a fish in a bowl, free to swim whenever and whatever it likes, but contained. it doesnt even know it is contained.
     
  14. Radagast

    Radagast has left CF

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    But God doesn't.
     
  15. Radagast

    Radagast has left CF

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    This is utterly non-Christian garbage.
     
  16. shakewell

    shakewell Active Member

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    The will is an "it", not a person. The person's will remains the same when the person goes from bondage to freedom; it continues to function as it always has.
     
  17. Butch5

    Butch5 Newbie

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    The logic doesn't follow in your example. Also there is another way to understand Jude 1:4. However, this is all a moot point because the Predestination/Free Will debate is based on a flawed premise.
     
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