Life in heaven

[drich0150]

Will we have free will in heaven?

Free will being the ability to sin, No you will not have "free will" as you now know it.

 

[Algren]

Free will being the ability to sin, No you will not have "free will" as you now know it.

What will it be?

 

[drich0150]

What will it be?

What is your understanding of Free Will now?

 

[elman]

What is your understanding of Free Will now?

The ability to love or not love others. I think we will also have that ability in heaven.

 

[drich0150]

The ability to love or not love others. I think we will also have that ability in heaven.

If your understanding is limited to this definition, then I think your right.

 

[3sigma]

For us time is linear it moves in one direction. For God this is not true. I am suggesting once we enter His plain of existence this experience of time may also be shared. (something else entirely)

I’m sorry, but I still don’t see what this has to do with whether you will be able to observe life on Earth or in hell from heaven. Do you think that when you are in heaven you will be able to observe people on Earth or in hell as they go about their lives? If time were non-linear in heaven then I would think that would make it all the easier for you to observe someone’s life from heaven. Hypothetically, you would be able to jump to any point in their lives—their past, present or future—and observe it.

Once this happens you will see that your family or any nonbeliever for that matter was not your family at all. (The whole bit I did on wheat and weeds/sheep and goats the relationship you had with your mother as a child and how it has matured) You will be sad for a time, but not for an eternity.

Okay, so you are saying if someone you loved in life turns out to be a non-believer and ends up in hell, they are dead to you and, while you may feel sorry for them for a while, you soon go back to enjoying yourself. For example, imagine you had a feisty young daughter whom you loved for her independent spirit and moral stance, but it turns out that, deep down, she was an atheist and never had the heart to tell you. She’s killed in a car crash and ends up in hell where you see her screaming and howling in agony on a rack while her limbs are torn from their sockets, her flesh is flayed from her bones, she’s being raped with a red-hot poker and sprayed with boiling oil. This unbearable torture of the daughter you love goes on without end, but after a while you just ignore her never ending agony and go back to enjoying yourself. Is that what you would do?

 

[3sigma]

Yes I think we will be aware of what is happening on earth.

Imagine you have still living children and you see them about to suffer or experience hardship on Earth while you are in heaven and can do nothing to help them. Wouldn’t that cause you anxiety?

 

[3sigma]

It does not appear that anyone has pointed out the Bible never says "we will live in heaven," or that we will "go to heaven."

Well, Ray, there’s no sound reason to believe heaven exists at all, but that’s irrelevant to my questions. I asked what Christians here imagine life is like in heaven.

 

[razeontherock]

Actually it's very relevant to your your questions! When you understand what the Bible does say about it, you realize there are very sound reasons to know of it's existence.

Hint: heaven is above earth

 

[drich0150]

I’m sorry, but I still don’t see what this has to do with whether you will be able to observe life on Earth or in hell from heaven. Do you think that when you are in heaven you will be able to observe people on Earth or in hell as they go about their lives?If time were non-linear in heaven then I would think that would make it all the easier for you to observe someone’s life from heaven. Hypothetically, you would be able to jump to any point in their lives—their past, present or future—and observe it.

Which is why I made my original statement. If God is the same God of yesterday today and tomorrow (not bound by time) then perhaps we too will not be bound by time. Truthfully how else can one fathom an eternal life unless you eliminate the constraints of time itself.

Okay, so you are saying if someone you loved in life turns out to be a non-believer and ends up in hell, they are dead to you and, while you may feel sorry for them for a while, you soon go back to enjoying yourself. For example, imagine you had a feisty young daughter whom you loved for her independent spirit and moral stance, but it turns out that, deep down, she was an atheist and never had the heart to tell you. She’s killed in a car crash and ends up in hell where you see her screaming and howling in agony on a rack while her limbs are torn from their sockets, her flesh is flayed from her bones, she’s being raped with a red-hot poker and sprayed with boiling oil. This unbearable torture of the daughter you love goes on without end, but after a while you just ignore her never ending agony and go back to enjoying yourself. Is that what you would do?

Hell is much much worse than what you have been able to describe, and yes for a time I will be sad, but will eventually come to realize that Hell was what she wanted. Why because it was her choice to be there.

Isn't that a big part of secular love? to "love" someone for who they are and not try and change them? Even if it means "we" have to accept them and their "life decisions" when we do not agree with them?

What is the decision of choosing eternal separation from God if not life's biggest choice? Should i resent Her for making a choice that does not support my eternal happiness or my idea of a eternal destiny for her? Should I punish myself for her decisions for eternity? If she is able to drive then she is at that age of accountability. Meaning the cord is cut and the "life choices" she makes are her own. That means those decisions are between her and God.

What of you? would you lament for eternity because someone else did not want the same eternal existence you chose? Would you try and leverage your eternal happiness with God to secure someone else's passage into heaven? Would you corrupt the character of God (if it were in your power) and have Him drag someone into His presents kicking and screaming for all eternity, because from your current understanding of Heaven and Hell, you believe heaven to be the better choice?

What if the descriptions of Heaven and Hell were somehow reversed sometime in our past? And Hell was what we know to be paradise but no God. and Heaven was a fiery pit but God Jesus the Spirit lived there. Would you still want to goto Heaven? (The fiery pit?)

Heaven and hell have little to nothing to do with your surroundings. Heaven and Hell is all about your proximity to God. Either you want to be with God for eternity or you do not. The same hold true with my little girl or boys. If they want to be with God then they will do what they must to accept Christ. If they do not, it would take a supremely unjust God to drag them before Him for all of eternity, if they spent what time they had here in this life putting distance between themselves and Him.

Hell is a very very bad place, but to those who choose Hell it beats the alternative.

 

[Sketcher]

Do you think there is any fear or anxiety in heaven?

No.

Do you think you will retain your personality and memories in heaven?

Yes. But stuff like PTSD won't be there anymore.

Do you think you will age in heaven?

I don't think so.

Do you think you will sense the passing of time in heaven?

Dunno.

Do you think you will be able to learn or remember new things in heaven?

Absolutely. We will be finite beings living with an infinite being, so there will always be something new to learn.

Do you think you will be able to observe life on Earth or in hell from heaven?

I don't know.

Feel free to mention any other details that you think will be part of day-to-day life in heaven.

It will be awesome.

 

[elman]

Imagine you have still living children and you see them about to suffer or experience hardship on Earth while you are in heaven and can do nothing to help them. Wouldn’t that cause you anxiety?

Normally yes, but in heaven we will have a bigger view of things. I don't know how it will be, but I don't think anxiety will be part of the experience.

 

[Tzaousios]

Okay, so you are saying if someone you loved in life turns out to be a non-believer and ends up in hell, they are dead to you and, while you may feel sorry for them for a while, you soon go back to enjoying yourself. For example, imagine you had a feisty young daughter whom you loved for her independent spirit and moral stance, but it turns out that, deep down, she was an atheist and never had the heart to tell you. She’s killed in a car crash and ends up in hell where you see her screaming and howling in agony on a rack while her limbs are torn from their sockets, her flesh is flayed from her bones, she’s being raped with a red-hot poker and sprayed with boiling oil. This unbearable torture of the daughter you love goes on without end, but after a while you just ignore her never ending agony and go back to enjoying yourself. Is that what you would do?

Such melodrama! You know, it is time for you to find some new material. Your appropriation of imagery from the Cliffs Notes version of Dante's Inferno and Bosch paintings is embarrassing.

 

[Hakan101]

Forgive me for not looking through the entire thread, but if nobody has already mentioned it, there is a book called "Heaven" by Randy Alcorn, who has done some pretty lengthy research on this topic. I have the book but confess I only skimmed the first five chapters, and that was when I was 14 and not a Christian. One of the few things I remember was that he thinks we would still create buildings and other artistic works. And there would be pets. He also says that we would remember everything we did in our earthly lives, even things that we may have forgotten since we were little children.

 

[3sigma]

Your appropriation of imagery from the Cliffs Notes version of Dante's Inferno and Bosch paintings is embarrassing.

It certainly should be embarrassing to Christians. After all, it’s their fantasy. What's more, at least one Christian here thinks hell is even worse than that fanciful depiction, yet he seems to think that such a punishment for people he once loved is justified simply because they didn't believe in patent nonsense.

By the way, are you going to answer the questions in the OP or just evade them?

 

[razeontherock]

OP - you're flaming, in all it's glory. Do refrain

 

[Tzaousios]

It certainly should be embarrassing to Christians. After all, it’s their fantasy.

An enlightened, perfectly rational atheist like yourself was gullible enough to think that Dante or Bosch meant their depictions of Hell to be taken literally and seriously in terms of theology?

Like I said, your appropriation of it as something with which you could accurately denigrate Christians in general, is embarrassing. I guess scientifically enlightened, perfectly rational atheists do not have to take basic literary criticism courses at university.

What's more, at least one Christian here thinks hell is even worse than that fanciful depiction, yet he seems to think that such a punishment for people he once loved is justified simply because they didn't believe in patent nonsense.

Exactly! And in your consummate opportunism, you pounced on it as a device with which to make a general denigration of all Christians.

By the way, are you going to answer the questions in the OP or just evade them?

Why should I? It is more important for people to be aware of your game than to provide more fodder for your smug deliction.

 

[3sigma]

OP - you're flaming, in all it's glory. Do refrain

Flaming whom and how am I flaming them?

 

[3sigma]

An enlightened, perfectly rational atheist like yourself was gullible enough to think that Dante or Bosch meant their depictions of Hell to be taken literally and seriously in terms of theology?

Are you claiming that Christian theology doesn’t depict hell as eternal torture in fire? Let’s see what the Bible says about it.

Matthew 13:41-42
The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 18:8-9
If thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.

Matthew 25:41, 46
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: ... And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Mark 9:43-48
...into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Luke 16:22-24
And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

Revelation 14:10-11
The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever:

Revelation 20:10
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Revelation 20:14-15
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Here’s what the Catholic Encyclopædia says about hell.
“The poena sensus, or pain of sense, consists in the torment of fire so frequently mentioned in the Holy Bible. According to the greater number of theologians the term fire denotes a material fire, and so a real fire. We hold to this teaching as absolutely true and correct. … Scripture and tradition speak again and again of the fire of hell, and there is no sufficient reason for taking the term as a mere metaphor.”

Exactly! And in your consummate opportunism, you pounced on it as a device with which to make a general denigration of all Christians.

When surveyed, 73% of Protestants and 60% of Catholics said they believe in hell.

So, the majority of Christians believe in hell and both the Bible and theologians say that those in hell are subjected to eternal torment, usually in fire, but whatever it is, it involves unbearable pain and suffering.

Why should I?

Perhaps you should answer the questions in the OP to dispel the impression that you are being evasive. Suit yourself. You can go on evading my questions if that’s the impression to wish to convey.

 

[New_Believer]

1. Do you think there is any fear or anxiety in heaven? No.
2. Do you think you will retain your personality and memories in heaven? I'm not exactly sure. I know that we will no longer feel sadness nor would we miss our family who is not in heaven. But I don't see why we would forget everything. But I do know that there will be no sin in heaven so I don't think we would be the same.
3. Do you think you will age in heaven? No, since we will be living eternally, so I don't see why. From my understanding our spirits go to heaven. I'm not sure what happens to our bodies. Anyone know the answer to that?
4. Do you think you will sense the passing of time in heaven? Time is different in heaven. 1,000 days could equal 1 day in heaven.
5. Do you think you will be able to learn or remember new things in heaven? We will know everything we need to know.
6. Do you think you will be able to observe life on Earth or in hell from heaven? Yes

These are good questions. I've never thought about them before.