Liberals, why can't someone choose their race?

[Resha Caner]

You don't want to push that for the simple reason around here this is an atheistic tactic; get people to answer yes/no in order to force them down a particular road. I would not answer your questions yes/no either seeing a potential trap.

Understood. I'm not trying to trap anyone. It was simply a matter that she was talking past me - not addressing a single thing I said. Once we get over that hump, she is perfectly within her rights to clarify her answers, disagree with me, ignore me, whatever.

But her original approach irritated me and ruined her credibility. I wanted that to be clear if she had any interest in a discussion.

 

[Cloture]

We can flippantly say all we want that we don't care about silly scenarios. But, when it comes to secular progressives, eventually you WILL be made to care. The progressives on this thread just need a little time to get used to transracials. Check back in with them in about six months, and they will glibly be lecturing you on the value of the transracial experience.

 

[Z.Mackenzie]

So if a slave simply told the owners that he identified as white, he would have been released? Emmitt Till could have just identified as white and his murderers would have had no issue with him?

Obviously, a slave would not be released because a slave owner would not grasp the concept of race being based on identity and a social construct. the same with Emmet Till's racist murders

Also replace the subject--So if a woman simply told a man that she identified as man, she would receive property rights? See how that works?

 

[Cloture]

Why can't I identify as Bill Gates' biological daughter?

 

[Z.Mackenzie]

We can flippantly say all we want that we don't care about silly scenarios. But, when it comes to secular progressives, eventually you WILL be made to care. The progressives on this thread just need a little time to get used to transracials. Check back in with them in about six months, and they will glibly be lecturing you on the value of the transracial experience.

Lol exactly

 

[Mountain_Girl406]

We can flippantly say all we want that we don't care about silly scenarios. But, when it comes to secular progressives, eventually you WILL be made to care. The progressives on this thread just need a little time to get used to transracials. Check back in with them in about six months, and they will glibly be lecturing you on the value of the transracial experience.

Hmmm...maybe if we look far enough into the future there will be less distinction between races as people intermarry more, travel us easier and we all converge toward a single race.

I imagine that's not a possibility with gender, though.

 

[lesliedellow]

Hmmm...maybe if we look far enough into the future there will be less distinction between races as people intermarry more, travel us easier and we all converge toward a single race.

That assumes that our highly industrialised/technological civilisation lasts long enough for that to happen. That is hardly guaranteed, especially now that 2 billion Chinese have joined in the race to deplete non renewable resources.

 

[[serious]]

Why can't Rachel Dolezal be black? Why does it matter if someone's parents and grandparents or direct lineage is majority European descent if they sincerely identify with being black? Sooner or later you guys will need to be consistent.

You seem to think there is some non arbitrary definition of race. Tell me, when the census report comes out and says the US is 79% white and 13% black, what do you think that means? It means that 13% of of the surveyed population checked a box saying "I am black/african american"?

 

[Cloture]

There are non-arbitrary definitions of race. Try to apply for a Native American scholarship because 1/64 of your DNA is Cherokee, and watch how fast they hold you to a real metric. Ancestry metrics matter in affirmative action decisions, next-of-kin lawsuits, and membership into certain organizations.

 

[Z.Mackenzie]

You seem to think there is some non arbitrary definition of race. Tell me, when the census report comes out and says the US is 79% white and 13% black, what do you think that means? It means that 13% of of the surveyed population checked a box saying "I am black/african american"?

It means that people checked in what their racial identity is. Rachel Dolezal identifies as a black woman, thus she is black.

 

[[serious]]

There are non-arbitrary definitions of race. Try to apply for a Native American scholarship because 1/64 of your DNA is Cherokee, and watch how fast they hold you to a real metric. Ancestry metrics matter in affirmative action decisions, next-of-kin lawsuits, and membership into certain organizations.

Which scholarship would that be? The top result for "native american educational benefits" (no quotes) is this link:
http://www.benefits.gov/benefits/benefit-details/796

"In order to qualify for this benefit program, you must be a Native American/American Indian, you must be accepted or enrolled in an accredited degree program, college or university, and you or a family member must be enrolled in a Federally recognized American Indian tribe or Alaskan Native village."

A native american is defined as follows: "As a general rule, an American Indian or Alaska Native person is someone who has blood degree from and is recognized as such by a federally recognized tribe or village (as an enrolled tribal member) and/or the United States."
http://www.bia.gov/FAQs/



I don't doubt that scholarships exist that may require some specific blood percent, but I would categorically reject the appropriateness of such requirements in favor of direct lineage and tribal recognition as above.

 

[[serious]]

It means that people checked in what their racial identity is. Rachel Dolezal identifies as a black woman, thus she is black.

Right. That is the best measure of race we can come up with. That's what we use on the census.

 

[civilwarbuff]

There are non-arbitrary definitions of race. Try to apply for a Native American scholarship because 1/64 of your DNA is Cherokee, and watch how fast they hold you to a real metric. Ancestry metrics matter in affirmative action decisions, next-of-kin lawsuits, and membership into certain organizations.

especially in wills....nobody cares about dna.....just how close of a cousin can you show.....

 

[Cloture]

I don't doubt that scholarships exist that may require some specific blood percent, but I would categorically reject the appropriateness of such requirements in favor of direct lineage and tribal recognition as above.

What do you think direct lineage means? That is exactly the same as a DNA requirement. What do you think the process is to get tribal recognition? Are you aware of the difficulty that the Lumbee nation is having to get federal recognition? Other NA nations are trying to block it to preserve the the genetic standard of being a Native American.

 

[civilwarbuff]

What do you think direct lineage means? That is exactly the same as a DNA requirement.

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No, it is not. It is who is your parents, and then their parents and then their parents and who did everyone marry and how many were outside the nation or (worse) white. It has nothing to do with DNA.....

 

[Cloture]

Ha ha!! This is about how many white people are in your family tree, but that's not a question of DNA or genetics.

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[[serious]]

What do you think direct lineage means? That is exactly the same as a DNA requirement.

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It isn't a requirement of X%. The chain of replies started with me responding to the following comment: "Try to apply for a Native American scholarship because 1/64 of your DNA is Cherokee"

The bar there would be recognition by a federally recognized tribe, not that you weren't cherokee enough.

 

[Cloture]

Do you know how hard it is to join a tribe that your parents were not already officially members of? Do you know how to start from scratch and get in a tribe? Do you know how to get federal recognition for a nation?

They do not not let people walk in from the street, toss around a birth certificate, and call themselves an Indian.

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[Sophrosyne]

It isn't a requirement of X%. The chain of replies started with me responding to the following comment: "Try to apply for a Native American scholarship because 1/64 of your DNA is Cherokee"

The bar there would be recognition by a federally recognized tribe, not that you weren't cherokee enough.

Actually you have to prove that an ancestor on the rolls is your ancestor I doubt they have a DNA test to prove someone is cherokee because I am actually enough cherokee to be on the rolls but my ancestors records were destroyed before the rolls were made so they were never included and thus I cannot get on the rolls even though I'm about 1/8 to maybe 3/32 cherokee.

 

[Cloture]

Actually you have to prove that an ancestor on the rolls is your ancestor I doubt they have a DNA test to prove someone is cherokee because I am actually enough cherokee to be on the rolls but my ancestors records were destroyed before the rolls were made so they were never included and thus I cannot get on the rolls even though I'm about 1/8 to maybe 3/32 cherokee.

Yes, shockingly, some racial indicators have to be proven and are thus not arbitrary.

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