Let's Talk About Hell (4)

[Sophrosyne]

How about this? If there is heaven, there is earth.
If there is life there is death.
Those who do not receive eternal life, must die sometime. If they are dead, they are not alive in hell receiving eternal torment.

Let me ask you a simple question:
If there is an eternal Hell with punishment (torment) for the wicked, do you think God could be fair to those within it in how he treats them or not? I would appreciate a yes or no answer (no explanation is needed because I don't intend for this to be a continuing discussion).

 

[WillieH]

here is some more cut and paste about science

"If we take a segment of length, we can divide it in half. We can take one of the remaining halves, and we can divide it in half again. We naturally assume that this can go on forever. We assume that no matter how small a length we end up dealing with, we can always - at least conceptually - divide any remainder in half. It turns out that this is not true. There is a length known as the Planck length, 10-33 centimeters, that is indivisible.

The same thing is true of mass, energy, and even time. There is a unit of time which cannot be subdivided: 10-43 seconds. It is in this strange world of subatomic behavior that scientists have now encountered the very boundaries of physical reality, as we experience it. The study of these subatomic components is called quantum mechanics, or quantum physics.

The startling discovery made by the quantum physicists is that if you break matter into smaller and smaller pieces you eventually reach a point where those pieces - electrons, protons, et al. - no longer possess the traits of objects. Although they can sometimes behave as if they were a compact little particle, physicists have found that they literally possess no dimension."

Quantum Physics: The Boundaries of Reality - Chuck Missler - Koinonia House

Thanks... that makes TWO documented admissions of your "CUT & PASTE beliefs"...

As far as this current offering...

Just more UNPROVEN and SPECUALATIVE baloney...

Chuck Missler and his "bondaries of reality" are as UNPROVEN as any other of the scientific babble, such as the (EXTREMELY LARGE and) current baloney being presented to the world from the "scientific community" ---- "ANCIENT ALIENS" ...which often takes BIBLICAL writings, and suggest that these HOLY SCRIPTURES are documentational proof of UFO's & ALIENS... Please.

And by the way, what does ANY of this have to do with "HELL"? Is HELL beyond Chuck Missler's "boundaries of reality"?

I'd say... WITHOUT A DOUT! ...er, I mean, DOUBT...

Btw... please do not attempt to shovel Chuck Missler's phony baloney into my mind for I am quite familiar with him and his brand of fallacy... as,

I have 14 Chuck Missler tapes in my possession,

"Strategic trends of the 90's: "1997 Update"
"Mysteries iof the planet Mars"
"The agony of love" (Missler/Eastman)
"Betrayal of the Chosen"
"Signs in the heavens"
"The Creator beyond time and space" (Missler/Eastman)
"Jonah"
"A walk through the bible"
"Beyond time and space"
"Footprints of the Messiah"
"The trinity"
"The feasts of Israel"
"Beyond coincidence"
"The magog Invasion"

And ALL of them contain MUCH SPECULATION, as well as LITTLE and sometimes NOT ANY Biblical foundation.

Except where he might take an isolated verse and makes it about HIS SPECUALTION, rather then takes it and SHOW the actuallity of his SPECULATION, in presenting other witnesses elsewhere in Scripture which found his "Speculation" --

So with Chuck, it is about what HE (and HIS SPECULATION) BELIEVES, rather than what the WORD actually SAYS about a given subject.

Often the SUBJECT of His discussions, are not even noted or suggested in the WORD.


Peace...


...willieH

 

[msmorality]

Let me ask you a simple question:
If there is an eternal Hell with punishment (torment) for the wicked, do you think God could be fair to those within it in how he treats them or not? I would appreciate a yes or no answer (no explanation is needed because I don't intend for this to be a continuing discussion).

No Eternal torment is NOT fair or just. So the answer would be no, if it were true it would not be fair. It would be excessive evil, an attribute we would give Hitler or Satan. Yet, this is passed off as ' orthodox '.. This is sickness that has invaded the body of Christ for too long.. and it will end. Light is on the horizon, God is raising up a new Reformation. Martin Luther would be proud..

 

[Sophrosyne]

No Eternal torment is NOT fair or just. So the answer would be no, if it were true it would not be fair. It would be excessive evil, an attribute we would give Hitler or Satan. Yet, this is passed off as ' orthodox '.. This is sickness that has invaded the body of Christ for too long.. and it will end. Light is on the horizon, God is raising up a new Reformation. Martin Luther would be proud..

Thanks for your answer even if the question was addressed to Timothew.

 

[Timothew]

Let me ask you a simple question:
If there is an eternal Hell with punishment (torment) for the wicked, do you think God could be fair to those within it in how he treats them or not? I would appreciate a yes or no answer (no explanation is needed because I don't intend for this to be a continuing discussion).

According to the BIBLE, the wages of sin is DEATH, not eternal torment. I won't play your word game.

If Bullfrogs had wings, do you think they would still bump their behinds every time they jumped? I need a yes or no answer because I don't intend for this to be a continuing discussion.

If angels could fit on the head of a pin, how many do you think could fit?

If Superman was real, do you think he could beatup Underdog?

If dogs sweat through their noses, what are their armpits for?

If people ask bizarre questions, are wise people supposed to answer them?

 

[Timothew]

No Eternal torment is NOT fair or just. So the answer would be no, if it were true it would not be fair. It would be excessive evil, an attribute we would give Hitler or Satan. Yet, this is passed off as ' orthodox '.. This is sickness that has invaded the body of Christ for too long.. and it will end. Light is on the horizon, God is raising up a new Reformation. Martin Luther would be proud..

Good answer.

Torture is immoral no matter who does the torturing. It's sick. It's even more sick when people accuse God of doing it. It is impossible to be just and still torture someone for all eternity. Someone who tortures someone else is not just. Sophrosyne only imagines that God is a torturer.

 

[Timothew]

God is raising up a new Reformation.

I love this.

 

[Sophrosyne]

According to the BIBLE, the wages of sin is DEATH, not eternal torment. I won't play your word game.

If Bullfrogs had wings, do you think they would still bump their behinds every time they jumped? I need a yes or no answer because I don't intend for this to be a continuing discussion.

If angels could fit on the head of a pin, how many do you think could fit?

If Superman was real, do you think he could beatup Underdog?

If dogs sweat through their noses, what are their armpits for?

If people ask bizarre questions, are wise people supposed to answer them?

This was not a trick question. There will be no reply from me regarding a yes or no other answer other than a thanks. I was just curious as to what people that reject the mainstream idea of Hell (eternal torment etc.) think the problem is and I figured perhaps it was that they considered God unable to treat people fairly in the situation. I am not even interested in what they consider the definition of fairly or going into depth about the torment.
I figure either the torment is the problem completely, or God unable to administer torment fairly is the problem so I asked a simple question.

 

[msmorality]

This was not a trick question. There will be no reply from me regarding a yes or no other answer other than a thanks. I was just curious as to what people that reject the mainstream idea of Hell (eternal torment etc.) think the problem is and I figured perhaps it was that they considered God unable to treat people fairly in the situation. I am not even interested in what they consider the definition of fairly or going into depth about the torment.
I figure either the torment is the problem completely, or God unable to administer torment fairly is the problem so I asked a simple question.

Just keep in mind that when Martin Luther wrote his 95 page Theses, Justification through Faith was not a ' main stream ' belief.

 

[msmorality]

Good answer.

Torture is immoral no matter who does the torturing. It's sick. It's even more sick when people accuse God of doing it. It is impossible to be just and still torture someone for all eternity. Someone who tortures someone else is not just. Sophrosyne only imagines that God is a torturer.

According to the ET view, Hitler is rewarded for saying a prayer, while millions of Jews are tortured for all eternity..

It is a sickness that must be confronted and reformed.

 

[createdtoworship]

Thanks... that makes TWO documented admissions of your "CUT & PASTE beliefs"...

As far as this current offering...

Just more UNPROVEN and SPECUALATIVE baloney...

Chuck Missler and his "bondaries of reality" are as UNPROVEN as any other of the scientific babble, such as the (EXTREMELY LARGE and) current baloney being presented to the world from the "scientific community" ---- "ANCIENT ALIENS" ...which often takes BIBLICAL writings, and suggest that these HOLY SCRIPTURES are documentational proof of UFO's & ALIENS... Please.

And by the way, what does ANY of this have to do with "HELL"? Is HELL beyond Chuck Missler's "boundaries of reality"?

I'd say... WITHOUT A DOUT! ...er, I mean, DOUBT...

Btw... please do not attempt to shovel Chuck Missler's phony baloney into my mind for I am quite familiar with him and his brand of fallacy... as,

I have 14 Chuck Missler tapes in my possession,

"Strategic trends of the 90's: "1997 Update"
"Mysteries iof the planet Mars"
"The agony of love" (Missler/Eastman)
"Betrayal of the Chosen"
"Signs in the heavens"
"The Creator beyond time and space" (Missler/Eastman)
"Jonah"
"A walk through the bible"
"Beyond time and space"
"Footprints of the Messiah"
"The trinity"
"The feasts of Israel"
"Beyond coincidence"
"The magog Invasion"

And ALL of them contain MUCH SPECULATION, as well as LITTLE and sometimes NOT ANY Biblical foundation.

Except where he might take an isolated verse and makes it about HIS SPECUALTION, rather then takes it and SHOW the actuallity of his SPECULATION, in presenting other witnesses elsewhere in Scripture which found his "Speculation" --

So with Chuck, it is about what HE (and HIS SPECULATION) BELIEVES, rather than what the WORD actually SAYS about a given subject.

Often the SUBJECT of His discussions, are not even noted or suggested in the WORD.


Peace...


...willieH

I disagree with your disagreement. You just don't like science, and thats okay. It's not required to get to heaven anyway.

 

[createdtoworship]

How about this? If there is heaven, there is earth.
If there is life there is death.
Those who do not receive eternal life, must die sometime. If they are dead, they are not alive in hell receiving eternal torment.

Yet everyone dies, not only the wicked. And the wicked are raised again for the Great white throne. Only to die yet again? Sillyness. It is much better to believe that we are conscious when we die and that our souls go to either heaven or hell, and when the resurrection happens it's just our bodies meeting up with our souls. Then when the wicked are judged they don't simply die again (as your belief states) but their bodies and souls are eternally destroyed in hell at this point (but are still aware to feel the burn).

 

[createdtoworship]

According to the BIBLE, the wages of sin is DEATH, not eternal torment. I won't play your word game.

If Bullfrogs had wings, do you think they would still bump their behinds every time they jumped? I need a yes or no answer because I don't intend for this to be a continuing discussion.

If angels could fit on the head of a pin, how many do you think could fit?

If Superman was real, do you think he could beatup Underdog?

If dogs sweat through their noses, what are their armpits for?

If people ask bizarre questions, are wise people supposed to answer them?

strawman city

 

[Timothew]

This was not a trick question. There will be no reply from me regarding a yes or no other answer other than a thanks. I was just curious as to what people that reject the mainstream idea of Hell (eternal torment etc.) think the problem is and I figured perhaps it was that they considered God unable to treat people fairly in the situation. I am not even interested in what they consider the definition of fairly or going into depth about the torment.
I figure either the torment is the problem completely, or God unable to administer torment fairly is the problem so I asked a simple question.

Fair enough. I'll just tell you what the problem is. The bible states that the wages of sin is death, not eternal torment. If the bible said the wages of sin is eternal torment, I would believe it. Since eternal torment is unbiblical, I don't believe it. Simple enough?

 

[Sophrosyne]

Fair enough. I'll just tell you what the problem is. The bible states that the wages of sin is death, not eternal torment. If the bible said the wages of sin is eternal torment, I would believe it. Since eternal torment is unbiblical, I don't believe it. Simple enough?

Hypothetically speaking then...... IF eternal torment in hell were to exist do you believe God could be fair about it or not? yes, no, or even I won't answer is acceptable to me. I won't ask again nor comment about your answer as this is just curiousity to me and not leading to any other lines of questions.

 

[createdtoworship]

Fair enough. I'll just tell you what the problem is. The bible states that the wages of sin is death, not eternal torment. If the bible said the wages of sin is eternal torment, I would believe it. Since eternal torment is unbiblical, I don't believe it. Simple enough?

in your theory there is no purpose for the resurrection of the wicked. They are just condemned to eternal death once again. Silliness Tim, silly. I mean why resurrect them if they are just going back to sheol from which they just came.

Marvel not at this: for the hour comes, in which all that are in the tombs shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of judgment [damnation — KJV] (John 5:28-29).

Daniel the prophet wrote: “And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt” (Daniel 12:2).

 

[Timothew]

Hypothetically speaking then...... IF eternal torment in hell were to exist do you believe God could be fair about it or not? yes, no, or even I won't answer is acceptable to me. I won't ask again nor comment about your answer as this is just curiousity to me and not leading to any other lines of questions.

OK, I will play.

Eternal Torment is inherently unfair so NO! God would not be able to be fair about it. On the other hand, God is inherently fair, so YES! God could be fair about it. This question is similar to the question "could God make a rock so big that he couldn't lift it?"

Could an inherently fair God do an inherently unfair act? Ultimately, I'd have to say No, God wouldn't do that.

 

[Timothew]

Let's see, some people say at death, the wicked go to hell. There they are tormented in fire. Then the resurrection comes. Then they are judged. Apparently they were tortured without a trial before the resurrection and judgment. Anyway, now they are resurrected and judged. They are found guilty so now it's back to hell for more torture. And this fanciful farce makes complete sense to these people.

 

[Sophrosyne]

OK, I will play.

Eternal Torment is inherently unfair so NO! God would not be able to be fair about it. On the other hand, God is inherently fair, so YES! God could be fair about it. This question is similar to the question "could God make a rock so big that he couldn't lift it?"

Could an inherently fair God do an inherently unfair act? Ultimately, I'd have to say No, God wouldn't do that.

So I have a No, yes, no?
forget it, not worth any more effort.

 

[Timothew]

So I have a No, yes, no?

Yes!