Let's Talk About Hell (4)

[Truth_Warrior]

God does NOT punish, He will chastize or if you do not repent you will reap what you sow:

Yes Brother God does punish.

Lev_26:18 And if ye will not yet for all this hearken unto me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins.

Lev_26:24 Then will I also walk contrary unto you, and will punish you yet seven times for your sins.

Isa_10:12 Wherefore it shall come to pass, that when the Lord hath performed his whole work upon mount Zion and on Jerusalem, I will punish the fruit of the stout heart of the king of Assyria, and the glory of his high looks.

Isa_13:11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.

Isa_24:21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.

Isa_26:21 For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

Isa_27:1 In that day the LORD with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea.

Jer_9:25 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will punish all them which are circumcised with the uncircumcised;

Jer_11:22 Therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts, Behold, I will punish them: the young men shall die by the sword; their sons and their daughters shall die by famine:

Jer_21:14 But I will punish you according to the fruit of your doings, saith the LORD: and I will kindle a fire in the forest thereof, and it shall devour all things round about it.

Jer_23:34 And as for the prophet, and the priest, and the people, that shall say, The burden of the LORD, I will even punish that man and his house.

Jer_25:12 And it shall come to pass, when seventy years are accomplished, that I will punish the king of Babylon, and that nation, saith the LORD, for their iniquity, and the land of the Chaldeans, and will make it perpetual desolations.

Jer_27:8 And it shall come to pass, that the nation and kingdom which will not serve the same Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon, and that will not put their neck under the yoke of the king of Babylon, that nation will I punish, saith the LORD, with the sword, and with the famine, and with the pestilence, until I have consumed them by his hand.

Jer_29:32 Therefore thus saith the LORD; Behold, I will punish Shemaiah the Nehelamite, and his seed: he shall not have a man to dwell among this people; neither shall he behold the good that I will do for my people, saith the LORD; because he hath taught rebellion against the LORD.

Jer_30:20 Their children also shall be as aforetime, and their congregation shall be established before me, and I will punish all that oppress them.

Jer_36:31 And I will punish him and his seed and his servants for their iniquity; and I will bring upon them, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and upon the men of Judah, all the evil that I have pronounced against them; but they hearkened not.

Jer_44:13 For I will punish them that dwell in the land of Egypt, as I have punished Jerusalem, by the sword, by the famine, and by the pestilence:


There are many more verses that Gods Word declares punishment.

1Pe 2:13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;
1Pe 2:14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.


Call it what you want but these verses deal with punishment.
The word for chastise is a different word but even one of its definitions is to punish.

 

[createdtoworship]

Wikipedia??????????????????????????????

Really??????????????????????

Sticking with Gods Word on dead souls.

The Bible teaches that when a person dies he is dead in every way. His body is dead, and his soul and spirit die also. He is not alive in any form, in heaven or elsewhere.

The human body cannot live without a soul, and the soul and spirit cannot live apart from a body.

A “person” is an integrated whole. God has designed us so that our parts work in a totally integrated way, and not by themselves. This is one reason why the majority of the uses of “soul” in the Bible do not mean “soul” in the sense of the life force of the body, but rather the entire person.

Thus, when Acts 2:43 (KJV) says that “…fear came upon every soul…,” it means fear came upon every person. Once a person dies, he remains dead until he is raised from the dead by the Lord.


You can argue your point til you are blue in the face or til you pop into one of those other 9 dimensions but it will not make a dead soul alive.

Scripture is very clear that when a person dies and goes to Sheol his activity ceases:

Ecclesiastes 9:10 (ESV)
Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might, for there is no work or thought or knowledge or wisdom in Sheol, to which you are going.


There is no knowledge or thinking in Sheol, so there certainly is no rejoicing. This verse is not speaking only of a person’s body, as if the body went to Sheol but the soul was either in heaven with God or suffering in Hell. It is the “person,” including his soul, who goes to Sheol when he dies.

Psalm 89:48 (ESV)
What man can live and never see death? Who can deliver his soul from the power of Sheol?



Many of us have so much trouble in life that sometimes we just wish it were over, that we could rest in the sleep of death and be awakened by Jesus at the resurrection. Job was no different. He had so much trouble that he thought about resting in death until the resurrection.

Job 14:10-14
(10) But man dies and is laid low; he breathes his last and is no more.
(11) As water disappears from the sea or a riverbed becomes parched and dry,
(12) so man lies down and does not rise; till the heavens are no more, men will not awake or be roused from their sleep.
(13) If only you would hide me in the grave [Sheol] and conceal me till your anger has passed! If only you would set me a time and then remember me!
(14) If a man dies, will he live again? All the days of my hard service I will wait for my renewal to come.

There is tremendous truth in the above verses. When people die, they are asleep in death, not alive with God.

There is no life in Sheol; people sleep in death and await the resurrection, and that is what Job wanted—to rest from his misery.

We must pay attention to the fact that if Job thought his soul or spirit would live in a blessed place after he died, he would not have said what he did.


One must also realize that great confusion about the state of the dead was introduced into Old Testament theology and Jewish thinking when the Septuagint, the Greek Old Testament, was translated for Greek-speaking Jews, because the Hebrew word “Sheol” was translated into the Greek word “Hades.”

In Sheol everyone was dead, but in Hades everyone was alive. Thus,as I said before by the stroke of a translator’s pen, the dead were made alive.

We do not know why the translators used Hades in the Septuagint. Perhaps after some 75 years of Greek dominance they had been so influenced by Greek thought that they believed the dead were alive, and thought they were only clarifying the situation for the Greek-speaking Jews.

Perhaps they felt “Hades” was the best word they could choose, because the Greek language did not have a word equivalent to “Sheol.”

We do not know the reason, but we know the result:

The Bible of every Greek-speaking Jew suddenly read that after a person died his soul stayed alive and went to the Underworld.

No wonder that by the time of Christ there was confusion about the state of the dead. No wonder Jesus spent the opening part of his first public sermon, the Sermon on the Mount, speaking about the future hope of the people of God.


What the Jews believed at the time of Christ was very important, because as the first-century Church developed, the Christians were converts from two main groups, Jews and Greeks.

The Greeks believed in an immortal soul, and that everyone was alive after they died. Many of the Jews, especially those who read the Septuagint, believed the same thing. Therefore it is not hard to see how the modern orthodox belief of an immortal soul living on after the body dies came into Christianity.

It seems to me that your point about what The first-century Jewish historian Flavius Josephus believed helps prove my point because before the Greek influence in theology when you die you were dead.

Your verses speak of the death of the Body not the soul, there is not a single verse that speaks of the death of the soul. The rest of your post you deal with soul sleep, which is a common misconception:

Soul Sleep problems
Problem Verses

There are multiple passages that show the dead are conscious after death.

1st Samuel 28:11-19 - samuel talked with a witch after death

Matthew 12:40 (Jonah 2) – Jonah spoke as one from hell who was dead.

Matthew 17:2-3 – Moses and Elias were talking with Jesus after their death.

Matthew 22:31-32 – Abraham was dead, but still living.

Luke 16:19-31 – Jesus tells the story of dead people speaking in hell. (Some wrongly think this is a parable. It is not. If soul sleep were true then the story is not only false, but the Lord is misleading his hearers as to what is real. This is significant evidence that the dead are not only conscious but can speak and feel.)

Luke 23:43 – Jesus says the malefactor will be in paradise with him “today”.

1 Thessalonians 5:10 – Whether they wake or sleep they live with the Lord.

2 Corinthians 5:6-8 – Paul explains that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.

2 Corinthians 12:2-4 – Paul describes someone who heard things possibly out of his body.

Philippians 1:23 – Paul says that he would depart to be with Christ, not unconscious.

Revelation 6:9-11 – The souls of the dead are crying out to God.

Problem Definitions

Many of the concepts below are misunderstood, denied, or ignored by those who teach the unconscious dead.

Death does not mean unconsciousness, but rather separation. The only time it means cessation of activity is when it applies to the body.

Body is not the soul; soul is not the body; spirit is not the soul.

Sleep never refers to the soul or spirit. It only applies to the body.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

THE FACT THAT I AM QUOTING A BOOK THAT BATTLES CULTIC PATTERNS SHOULD BE ALARMING TO YOU

Norman Geisler....

GENESIS 2:7—Does this verse prove that human beings do not have a soul that survives death?

MISINTERPRETATION: Jehovah’s Witnesses cite this verse to prove that man does not have a soul that is distinct from the body. “Bible usage shows the soul to be a person or an animal or the life that a person or an animal enjoys” (Mankind’s Search for God, 1990, 125). Hence, people are souls in the sense that they are living beings, not in the sense that they have an immaterial nature that survives death.

CORRECTING THE MISINTERPRETATION: In Genesis 2:7 the Hebrew word for “soul” (nephesh) means “living being.” However, this Hebrew word is a rich one, carrying various nuances of meaning in different contexts. A fundamental mistake beginning Hebrew and Greek students sometimes make is to assume that, if a Hebrew or Greek word is used in a particular way in one verse, it must mean the same thing in all its other uses. But this is simply wrong. The fact is, Hebrew and Greek words can have different nuances of meaning in different contexts. The word nephesh is an example. While the word means “living being” in Genesis 2:7, the word refers to a soul or spirit as distinct from the body in Genesis 35:18.
Moreover, when we examine what the whole of Scripture teaches about the soul, it is clear that the Watchtower Society (Jehovah’s Witnesses) position is wrong. For example, Revelation 6:9–10 refers to disembodied souls under God’s altar (it would be nonsense to interpret the reference to “soul” in this verse as “living being”—“I saw underneath the altar the living beings of those who had been slain&#8221. First Thessalonians 4:13–17 says Christ will bring with him the souls and spirits of those who are now with him in heaven and will reunite their spirits to resurrection bodies. In Philippians 1:21–23 Paul says it’s better to depart and be with Christ. In 2 Corinthians 5:6–8 Paul says that to be absent from the body is to be at home with the Lord. Clearly, the whole of Scripture teaches that each person has a soul that survives death.

Geisler, Norman L. ; Rhodes, Ron: When Cultists Ask : A Popular Handbook on Cultic Misinterpretations. Grand Rapids, Mich. : Baker Books, 1997, S. 23

 

[Truth_Warrior]

Sleep never refers to the soul or spirit. It only applies to the body.

Not buying that




I will deal with the verses you post later ,time for bed.

Bottom line is you believe a concept not present in scripture and when the truth is shown you use verses that are clearly misconstrued by many as proof of a doctrine taught by pagans.

This whole conversation is kinda silly especially when you totally ignore the truth and always side step by posting something else to side step and ignore answering the hard truth.

Kinda done with your games.

Kinda like talking with a Kindergartner in one of those 10 dimensions you talk about.

I have shown you the truth and others as well so you go to what scientists think.

Its all rather strange and no longer wish to debate science or Greek mythology.

You think stuff thats too crazy for me.

 

[Timothew]

THE FACT THAT I AM QUOTING A BOOK THAT BATTLES CULTIC PATTERNS SHOULD BE ALARMING TO YOU

The fact that you call everyone who disagree with a cultist should be alarming to you. It means that your argument can't stand on the facts and you have to resort to name-calling. Why don't you just call us "poopy-heads"? It carries as much weight, and supports your position just as well.

 

[Truth_Warrior]

Among other things, Jesus Christ came to expose Satan’s
(The Father Of Lies) methods. Chief among these is the Devils consistent contradiction of God’s Word.

John 8:44
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do, he was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.


In John 10:10a, Jesus clearly revealed Satan’s intentions: “The thief cometh not but for to steal, and to kill and to destroy.” Satan’s ultimate goal is to promote death and destruction, as the Bible makes clear.


Hebrews 2:14
Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil.

The Devil holds the power of death, and one of his most effective aids in exercising this power is the lie that death is in reality the gate-way to everlasting life and ultimate wisdom. He first told this lie early in Genesis.

Perhaps you recall that Satan’s first recorded utterance in Scripture was a challenge to the veracity of God’s Word. Satan said, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden?’” (Gen. 3:1, NIV).

This deceptive misquote of God’s revealed Word led to his second utterance, “Ye shall not surely die” (Gen. 3:4), which was just the opposite of what God had said to Adam.

Genesis 2:16 and 17
(16) And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
(17) But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
God said, “Thou shalt surely die.” Satan said, “Ye shall not surely die.” Scripture makes clear who was telling the truth.

Romans 5:12
Wherefore, as by one man [Adam] sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned.

Death, both spiritual(that very day for Adam) and physical, was the result of man’s believing Satan’s lie.

The idea that there is really no such thing as death is still being promoted today, even within the Christian Church.

Satan’s purpose has remained the same: to promote the idea that humans do not actually die, but go on living after their death whether they believe God’s Word or not. In this way, he obscures the light of the gospel of Christ and his resurrection, one’s only hope of deliverance from death unto everlasting life.

 

[LutheranMafia]

I am unaware of any other verses where it states the soul dies.

I'm always repeating Matthew 10:28, so I'm surprised you missed this:

...be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matthew 10:28
​

Also there are four references to the second death, three of which refer to the death of the soul.

You should stick with spirit, Grady. There is no verse describing the death of the spirit. It is essential to make this distinction between soul and spirit. That is the only way to reconcile all the verses that talk about death and destruction (that Timothew is always posting) with the reality of eternal torment. The soul is destroyed and the soulless spirit is eternally tormented:

...twice dead. They are wild waves of the sea, foaming up their shame; wandering stars, for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever.
Jude 1:12-13

​

Twice dead refers to the second death--the death of the soul. But the spirit "wanders" for eternity in torment.

 

[Truth_Warrior]

I'm always repeating Matthew 10:28, so I'm surprised you missed this:

...be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matthew 10:28
​

Also there are four references to the second death, three of which refer to the death of the soul.

You should stick with spirit, Grady. There is no verse describing the death of the spirit.

Very good point until you edited your post I agreed with all of it.(what I quoted you saying was all you wrote before the edit.

 

[LutheranMafia]

The Bible teaches that when a person dies he is dead in every way. His body is dead, and his soul and spirit die also. He is not alive in any form, in heaven or elsewhere.

There is no verse that supports the notion of spirit death. The soul can die but not the spirit.

The human body cannot live without a soul, and the soul and spirit cannot live apart from a body.

There is no verse that supports the latter statement highlighted above. While the soul can be destroyed unlike the spirit, even the soul can exist independently from the body. As I quoted in my last post, Matthew 10:28 proves this:

Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matthew 10:28
​

If the soul cannot be killed by your enemies, but can only be killed by God by being cast in hell, then clearly the soul can exist outside the body.

 

[LutheranMafia]

Very good point

Thank you!

...until you edited your post I agreed with all of it.(what I quoted you saying was all you wrote before the edit.

What is it that you disagree with after the edit? Even before the edit I spoke of the indestructible nature of the spirit, which is what I gather you disagree with from scanning your previous posts.

 

[Truth_Warrior]

There is no verse that supports the notion of spirit death. The soul can die but not the spirit.

There is no verse that supports the latter statement highlighted above. While the soul can be destroyed unlike the spirit, even the soul can exist independently from the body. As I quoted in my last post, Matthew 10:28 proves this:

Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matthew 10:28
​

If the soul cannot be killed by your enemies, but can only be killed by God by being cast in hell, then clearly the soul can exist outside the body.

The soul is dead or asleep until the resurrection,the basic teaching of orthodox Christianity concerning what happens after death is that the “souls” or “spirits” of righteous people go either to “heaven” or to some other blissful place. This teaching is in error.

It is impossible to understand such false doctrines without understanding their spiritual causes. From as early as the Garden of Eden, the Devil and his demons have been promoting the idea that people do not really die.

After God plainly told Adam that he would “surely die” if he partook of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, the Devil lied and said to Eve, “You will not surely die” (Gen. 3:4).

Ever since that time, the Devil has been actively promoting this same lie wherever and whenever possible. Unfortunately, the idea that people continue living on after they die has found a fertile breeding ground in most religions, including orthodox Christianity

The vast majority of Christian denominations teach that there is no such thing as death (if “death” is properly defined as “the total absence of life”).

Instead, according to their teaching, when the body dies, the “soul,” the “real you,” goes to heaven or hell and keeps right on living either in bliss or torment.

Therefore, most Christians do not believe that people actually experience “death” when their body dies. It is common to go to a Christian funeral and hear the minister say, “So and so is now in heaven,” even though his dead body is in the open casket in front of everyone.


Since a major part of the Devil’s agenda was, and still is, to convince people that “you will not surely die,” it is not surprising that most Christians believe that, in some way, “you” go on living even after you die.

Whether that “you” is your soul, or some other “essence,” the bottom line is always the same—“you” are fully conscious after death and not, in fact, “dead” (i.e., without life). This belief has no basis in Scripture.

God designed humans as integrated beings with a body, soul, and spirit that together make a whole individual. Adam’s body was fully formed, but just “dust” until God breathed life into it (Gen. 2:7). Adam’s “life” (whether it be called “soul” or “spirit”) had no consciousness or life of its own apart from his body.

The idea that the soul or spirit is like a ghost that can separate from the body and still have consciousness and movement without the body was introduced into Judaism after the Babylonian captivity and came from there and other religions into Christianity. The idea of a disembodied living soul did not come from the text of Scripture


The belief in being alive in some form after death is contrary to the revelation of Gods Word. According to the Bible, a person who dies is dead until he or she is raised to life by the Lord Jesus and made to stand at one of the judgments.

That is why the Bible speaks of a “day,” or time, of judgment, rather than an ongoing judgement occurring when people die.

Revelation 20:4–6 speaks of some of the dead “coming to life” to reign with Christ, while others do not yet come to life. Revelation 20:13 states that the sea and the grave will give up the “dead” who are in them so they can be judged.

If people are judged when they die and consigned either to heaven or hell, then there is no reason to get them up from the dead for “a day of judgment.”

Why drag someone out of heaven or hell and judge him again if he had already been judged at the time of his death?


Can anyone answer that with scripture?

 

[createdtoworship]

I'm always repeating Matthew 10:28, so I'm surprised you missed this:

...be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matthew 10:28
​

Also there are four references to the second death, three of which refer to the death of the soul.

You should stick with spirit, Grady. There is no verse describing the death of the spirit. It is essential to make this distinction between soul and spirit. That is the only way to reconcile all the verses that talk about death and destruction (that Timothew is always posting) with the reality of eternal torment. The soul is destroyed and the soulless spirit is eternally tormented:

...twice dead. They are wild waves of the sea, foaming up their shame; wandering stars, for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever.
Jude 1:12-13

​

Twice dead refers to the second death--the death of the soul. But the spirit "wanders" for eternity in torment.

But neither the soul nor the body is killed for the beast and the false prophet in Revelation 20 for over 1000 years at least. It like the fires of hell are a simulation of real fire in that it burns but it doesn't consume the inhabitants. Cars are destroyed at the junk yard but they still exist. It is the same with Hell and the soul and body.

Secondly, why would God's spirit Go to hell, we are the ones that sinned? Besides Those who are not born again don't have a spirit and they are the only ones going to Hell.

 

[createdtoworship]

Sleep never refers to the soul or spirit. It only applies to the body.

Not buying that




I will deal with the verses you post later ,time for bed.

Bottom line is you believe a concept not present in scripture and when the truth is shown you use verses that are clearly misconstrued by many as proof of a doctrine taught by pagans.

This whole conversation is kinda silly especially when you totally ignore the truth and always side step by posting something else to side step and ignore answering the hard truth.

Kinda done with your games.

Kinda like talking with a Kindergartner in one of those 10 dimensions you talk about.

I have shown you the truth and others as well so you go to what scientists think.

Its all rather strange and no longer wish to debate science or Greek mythology.

You think stuff thats too crazy for me.

metaphysics is crazy, too but it's still science and you have to accept that.

 

[Truth_Warrior]

metaphysics is crazy, too but it's still science and you have to accept that.

Yup as long as it lines up with scripture and never contradicts it,which it can't.

The only thing that can contradict scripture is error on mans behalf.

God designed everything and that includes the laws of math,logic and science.

Do you believe in the theory of evolution?

Its a theory of science and I don't accept that.

 

[Mikecpking]

19. State of the Dead - YouTube

 

[Mikecpking]

And:
The State of the Dead - OneTrueChurch & BibleOrTraditions discuss Eternal Soul doctrines - YouTube

State of the Dead - First response to OneTrueChurch (2A) - YouTube

State of the Dead - First Response to OneTrueChurch (2B) - YouTube

 

[LutheranMafia]

Very good point until you edited your post I agreed with all of it.(what I quoted you saying was all you wrote before the edit.

I don't understand what you are agreeing with then.

...be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matthew 10:28
​

I quoted this verse to point out that the soul can only be destroyed in hell. You are saying that the soul is destroyed at death, which contradicts this verse.

There is no verse describing the death of the spirit.

You completely disagree with this point from what I can gather of your posts?

 

[LutheranMafia]

19. State of the Dead - YouTube

If there is no immortal soul then what is the ressurection?

 

[LutheranMafia]

The soul is dead or asleep until the resurrection,the basic teaching of orthodox Christianity concerning what happens after death is that the “souls” or “spirits” of righteous people go either to “heaven” or to some other blissful place. This teaching is in error.

It is impossible to understand such false doctrines without understanding their spiritual causes. From as early as the Garden of Eden, the Devil and his demons have been promoting the idea that people do not really die.

After God plainly told Adam that he would “surely die” if he partook of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, the Devil lied and said to Eve, “You will not surely die” (Gen. 3:4).

Ever since that time, the Devil has been actively promoting this same lie wherever and whenever possible. Unfortunately, the idea that people continue living on after they die has found a fertile breeding ground in most religions, including orthodox Christianity

The vast majority of Christian denominations teach that there is no such thing as death (if “death” is properly defined as “the total absence of life&#8221.

Instead, according to their teaching, when the body dies, the “soul,” the “real you,” goes to heaven or hell and keeps right on living either in bliss or torment.

Therefore, most Christians do not believe that people actually experience “death” when their body dies. It is common to go to a Christian funeral and hear the minister say, “So and so is now in heaven,” even though his dead body is in the open casket in front of everyone.


Since a major part of the Devil’s agenda was, and still is, to convince people that “you will not surely die,” it is not surprising that most Christians believe that, in some way, “you” go on living even after you die.

Whether that “you” is your soul, or some other “essence,” the bottom line is always the same—“you” are fully conscious after death and not, in fact, “dead” (i.e., without life). This belief has no basis in Scripture.

God designed humans as integrated beings with a body, soul, and spirit that together make a whole individual. Adam’s body was fully formed, but just “dust” until God breathed life into it (Gen. 2:7). Adam’s “life” (whether it be called “soul” or “spirit&#8221 had no consciousness or life of its own apart from his body.

The idea that the soul or spirit is like a ghost that can separate from the body and still have consciousness and movement without the body was introduced into Judaism after the Babylonian captivity and came from there and other religions into Christianity. The idea of a disembodied living soul did not come from the text of Scripture


The belief in being alive in some form after death is contrary to the revelation of Gods Word. According to the Bible, a person who dies is dead until he or she is raised to life by the Lord Jesus and made to stand at one of the judgments.

That is why the Bible speaks of a “day,” or time, of judgment, rather than an ongoing judgement occurring when people die.

Revelation 20:4–6 speaks of some of the dead “coming to life” to reign with Christ, while others do not yet come to life. Revelation 20:13 states that the sea and the grave will give up the “dead” who are in them so they can be judged.

You apparently see eye to eye with Timothew from what I can gather.

If people are judged when they die and consigned either to heaven or hell, then there is no reason to get them up from the dead for “a day of judgment.”

Why drag someone out of heaven or hell and judge him again if he had already been judged at the time of his death?


Can anyone answer that with scripture?

They are dragged out of the afterlife because the resurrection is physical. The Bible says that Jesus is the "firstfruit" of the resurrection, and his resurrection was physical. There is a judgement at death, thus the thief went to Paradise instead of Sheol. Then there is a judgement at the resurrection.

 

[LutheranMafia]

Do you believe in the theory of evolution?

Its a theory of science and I don't accept that.

Then I take it that you think the world is 6,000 years old?

(In other words, that God created a lie, a universe that very deceptively appears to be billions of years old when it is not.)

 

[LutheranMafia]

But neither the soul nor the body is killed for the beast and the false prophet in Revelation 20 for over 1000 years at least. It like the fires of hell are a simulation of real fire in that it burns but it doesn't consume the inhabitants. Cars are destroyed at the junk yard but they still exist. It is the same with Hell and the soul and body.

But the body is killed at death. How can you disagree with that?

Secondly, why would God's spirit Go to hell, we are the ones that sinned? Besides Those who are not born again don't have a spirit and they are the only ones going to Hell.

I'm having a very hard time following you here. Jesus went to Sheol, not Gehanna--the lake of fire. And where does the Bible say that those who are not born again have no spirit?