Let's Talk About Hell (4)

[WillieH]

willieH: Hi gradyll...

You actually crack me up, bro! You abstain from addressing questions and points, yet as seen below, you ASK them, again and again, expecting answers!

One way conversations in conclusion, are useless.

But to show I am willing to be longsuffering where you are concerned as a brother in the Lord, as was my savior with me, ...just this once more, shall I bother to do that which YOU are unwilling to do, ...that being, answering your questions!

Obviously you are not aware of how a simple conversation or discussion works... You say what you will, then I ...ADDRESS what you say...

THEN ...I say what I will, and YOU ADDRESS what I say... really bro, it aint that hard.

Before I begin, ...WHERE is your REFUTE of MY WORDS, gradyll? Oh yeah... I forgot, ...you have NONE...

Now to answer your SCRIPTURE-LESS proposals WITH SCRIPTURE:

How could Jesus be the offspring of God, as you say....and yet not be God himself. Are you saying that God gave birth to a non God?

No. I have implied no such thing. A SON of any given species, is OF the species of the PARENT. GOD has noted in His WORD that NATURE identifies Him as well as does His WORD -- Rom 1:20

In NATURE, ...in ANY case and in ANY species, ...the SON is not the ORIGIN of himself, ...he gains his existence by the PARENT which PRECEEDED him...

MAN is of the "SPECIES" of GOD -- Psalm 82:6 -- MADE in His IMAGE -- Gen 1:7 -- The GENEOLOGY (descendency) of JESUS CHRIST is seen in BOTH notations in the NEW TESTAMENT, as part of and within that of MEN -- Matt 1:1-16 [geneology of FAITH] -- Luke 3:23-38 [geneology of FLESH]

MAN (of which JESUS was a part -- 1 Tim 2:6), ...is NOT the origin of Himself, He is, ...in totality... a CREATED grouping, which includes JESUS CHRIST -- Heb 2:9 -- "...was MADE a little lower than the angels, FOR the suffering of DEATH"

GOD, cannot DIE, ...GOD is EVERLASTING, WITHOUT interupption of LIFE.

JESUS' life was absent 3 days... then He was RESURRECTED to LIFE again -- Matt 12:40 -- that YOU do not accept that which IS WRITTEN, and instead refer to the documentations and opinions of men (wikipedia, Latin bible, philosphers, and the potentially erroneous opinions of religious icons), ...is your own shameful affair.

as far as the trinity in the latin bible, it's not there I forgot. The word has etymology that is later than the early writings of the Bible.

BOOK >>> CHAPTER >>> VERSE ...where the word TRINITY is found.

"The English word Trinity is derived from Latin Trinitas, meaning "the number three, a triad".[9] This abstract noun is formed from the adjective trinus (three each, threefold, triple),[10] as the word unitas is the abstract noun formed from unus (one)."- wikipedia

Enough with references of MEN... Get to the WORD gradyll, or are you unable?

BOOK >>> CHAPTER >>> VERSE ...where the word TRINITY is found.

turtullian coined the term trinity after the Bible was already written. "This word is derived from the Greek word trias, first used by Theophilus (A.D. 168-183), or from the Latin trinitas, first used by Tertullian (A.D. 220), to express this doctrine."
from Trinity (WebBible™ Encyclopedia) - ChristianAnswers.Net

BOOK >>> CHAPTER >>> VERSE ...where the word TRINITY is found.

You avoid employing the WORD of YHVH God to support your beliefs (trinity), simply because your beliefs are not FOUNDED in it.

Your beliefs are founded in the references that you have CLEARLY noted above:

(1) "wikipedia"...
(2) The "Latin bible" (which does not bring up the word "trinity")...
(3) Little diagrams YOU construct...
(4) The HEARSAY of other MEN (Tertullian, Theophilus, and whoever else)
(5) Your own opinions...

DEVOID of the useage of the SCRIPTURES... FULL of the writings and opinions of MEN.


Such a pity, that you are unable as well as UNWILLING to acknowledge this crooked pathway...


Praise the GOOD NEWS of, ...Peace....


...willieH

 

[createdtoworship]

willieH: Hi gradyll...

You actually crack me up, bro! You abstain from addressing questions and points, yet as seen below, you ASK them, again and again, expecting answers!

One way conversations in conclusion, are useless.

But to show I am willing to be longsuffering where you are concerned as a brother in the Lord, as was my savior with me, ...just this once more, shall I bother to do that which YOU are unwilling to do, ...that being, answering your questions!

Obviously you are not aware of how a simple conversation or discussion works... You say what you will, then I ...ADDRESS what you say...

THEN ...I say what I will, and YOU ADDRESS what I say... really bro, it aint that hard.

Before I begin, ...WHERE is your REFUTE of MY WORDS, gradyll? Oh yeah... I forgot, ...you have NONE...

Now to answer your SCRIPTURE-LESS proposals WITH SCRIPTURE:



No. I have implied no such thing. A SON of any given species, is OF the species of the PARENT. GOD has noted in His WORD that NATURE identifies Him as well as does His WORD -- Rom 1:20

In NATURE, ...in ANY case and in ANY species, ...the SON is not the ORIGIN of himself, ...he gains his existence by the PARENT which PRECEEDED him...

MAN is of the "SPECIES" of GOD -- Psalm 82:6 -- MADE in His IMAGE -- Gen 1:7 -- The GENEOLOGY (descendency) of JESUS CHRIST is seen in BOTH notations in the NEW TESTAMENT, as part of and within that of MEN -- Matt 1:1-16 [geneology of FAITH] -- Luke 3:23-38 [geneology of FLESH]

MAN (of which JESUS was a part -- 1 Tim 2:6), ...is NOT the origin of Himself, He is, ...in totality... a CREATED grouping, which includes JESUS CHRIST -- Heb 2:9 -- "...was MADE a little lower than the angels, FOR the suffering of DEATH"

GOD, cannot DIE, ...GOD is EVERLASTING, WITHOUT interupption of LIFE.

JESUS' life was absent 3 days... then He was RESURRECTED to LIFE again -- Matt 12:40 -- that YOU do not accept that which IS WRITTEN, and instead refer to the documentations and opinions of men (wikipedia, Latin bible, philosphers, and the potentially erroneous opinions of religious icons), ...is your own shameful affair.




BOOK >>> CHAPTER >>> VERSE ...where the word TRINITY is found.



Enough with references of MEN... Get to the WORD gradyll, or are you unable?

BOOK >>> CHAPTER >>> VERSE ...where the word TRINITY is found.



BOOK >>> CHAPTER >>> VERSE ...where the word TRINITY is found.

You avoid employing the WORD of YHVH God to support your beliefs (trinity), simply because your beliefs are not FOUNDED in it.

Your beliefs are founded in the references that you have CLEARLY noted above:

(1) "wikipedia"...
(2) The "Latin bible" (which does not bring up the word "trinity")...
(3) Little diagrams YOU construct...
(4) The HEARSAY of other MEN (Tertullian, Theophilus, and whoever else)
(5) Your own opinions...

DEVOID of the useage of the SCRIPTURES... FULL of the writings and opinions of MEN.


Such a pity, that you are unable as well as UNWILLING to acknowledge this crooked pathway...


Praise the GOOD NEWS of, ...Peace....


...willieH

as fulltruthministry pointed out

As it is written: John 17:5 (KJV)
5And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

what do you think of that verse? Jesus was born in bethlehem yet he had glory before the world began according to John 17:5.

How could that be if He was simply a created son of God and not God Himself.

and since you said I drew the picture of the trinity and made it, I found a hand written picture for you

btw the reasonings of men are not all futile, the trinity though it is not found in the Bible is the very first systematic theology developed other than the duality of Christ.

here is the Holy Spirit's role in the trinity

4. The Spirit Is Distinguished from Jesus
John 14:16, 26; John 15:26; John 16:7, 14
5. The Spirit Is Distinguished within the Trinity
Matt. 3:16–17; Matt. 28:19; Rom. 15:16; 2 Cor. 1:21–22; 2 Cor. 13:14; Eph. 3:14, 17; 2 Thess. 2:13–14; 1 Pet. 1:2; Jude 20
6. The Spirit Is Referred to with Personal Pronouns
John 14:16–17; John 15:26; John 16:7–14; Eph. 1:13–14

The Spirit Is Affected as a Person

7. The Spirit Can Be Blasphemed
Matt. 12:31–32; Mark 3:28–29
8. The Spirit Can Be Grieved
Isa. 63:10; Eph. 4:30
9. The Spirit Can Be Insulted
Heb. 10:29

10. The Spirit Can Be Lied To
Acts 5:3–4
11. The Spirit Can Be Obeyed
Acts 10:19–21
12. The Spirit Can Be Quenched
1 Thess. 5:19
13. The Spirit Can Be Resisted
Acts 6:9–10; Acts 7:51
14. The Spirit Can Be Tested
Acts 5:9

The Spirit Has Moral Capacities

15. The Spirit Convicts the World of Guilt
John 16:8–11
16. The Spirit Glorifies Christ
John 16:14
17. The Spirit Guides into Truth
John 16:13
18. The Spirit Intercedes
Rom. 8:26–27
19. The Spirit Regenerates
John 3:3–5
20. The Spirit Restrains Evil
Gen. 6:3, 5
21. The Spirit Sanctifies
Rom. 15:16; 1 Cor. 6:11
22. The Spirit Is a Distinct Personality with Power
Judg. 14:6; Judg. 14:19; Judg. 15:14; 1 Sam. 10:10; 1 Sam. 16:13; Luke 1:35; Luke 4:14; Acts 10:38; Acts 15:28; Rom. 15:13; 1 Cor. 2:4



The Spirit Does What People Do

23. The Spirit Commissions
Acts 11:12; Acts 13:2, 4; Acts 20:28
24. The Spirit Communicates
2 Cor. 3:3; Eph. 3:5
25. The Spirit Encourages
Acts 9:31
26. The Spirit Gives Gifts
1 Cor. 12:7–11
27. The Spirit Leads
Matt. 4:1; Acts 8:29; Acts 16:6–7; Rom. 8:14
28. The Spirit Speaks
Matt. 10:20; Acts 1:16; Acts 8:29; Acts 10:19; Acts 21:11; 1 Tim. 4:1; Heb. 3:7; 1 Pet. 1:11–12; Rev. 2:7; Rev. 22:17
29. The Spirit Strengthens
Acts 9:31; Rom. 8:26; Eph. 3:16
30. The Spirit Teaches
Luke 12:12; John 14:26; 1 Cor. 2:13; Heb. 9:8
31. The Spirit Testifies
John 15:26; Acts 5:32; Rom. 8:16; Heb. 10:15; 1 John 4:2; 1 John 5:6–8
32. The Spirit Gives Life
Ps. 104:30; Isa. 32:15; Isa. 44:3–4; Ezek. 37:14; John 6:63; Rom. 8:2; 1 Pet. 3:18

The Deity of the Holy Spirit

The Spirit Is Considered Divine

1. The Spirit’s Deity in His Own Being…


a. The Spirit Is Called God
Acts 5:3–4
b. The Spirit Is Called Lord
2 Cor. 3:17–18
MORE INFO ON THE DIETY OF THE HOLY SPIRIT
http://www.godandscience.org/doctrine/spiritgod.html

c. The Spirit Is Called the Spirit
Num. 11:17, 25; 1 Chron. 12:18; Isa. 32:15; Ezek. 2:2; Ezek. 8:3; Mark 1:12; John 7:39; Acts 11:28; Acts 20:22; Acts 21:4; Rom. 7:6; Rom. 8:16; 2 Cor. 3:6; Gal. 5:16–18; Eph. 6:18; 1 Tim. 3:16; 1 Pet. 3:18; 1 John 3:24; 1 John 4:6; Jude 19
d. The Spirit Is Identified with Yahweh
Num. 24:2–4, 12–13; Acts 7:51; Acts 28:25–27; 1 Cor. 2:12; Heb. 3:7–9; Heb. 10:15–17 2 Pet. 1:21
e. The Spirit Is Spoken of as Divine
Matt. 12:32; Mark 3:29; 1 Cor. 3:16; 1 Cor. 6:19; Eph. 2:22

The Spirit’s Relationship to the Other Divine Persons

a. The Spirit and the Father

i. His Spirit
Num. 11:29; Isa. 34:16; Isa. 48:16; Zech. 7:12; 1 Cor. 2:10; Gal. 3:5; Eph. 2:22; Eph. 3:16; 1 Thess. 4:8; 1 John 4:12–13
ii. My Spirit
Gen. 6:3; Isa. 30:1; Isa. 42:1; Isa. 44:3; Isa. 59:21; Ezek. 36:27; Joel 2:28–29; Hag. 2:5; Zech. 4:6; Matt. 12:18


iii. Spirit of God
Gen. 1:2; Exod. 31:3; Num. 24:2; 1 Sam. 10:10; 1 Sam. 11:6; 1 Sam. 19:20; 1 Sam. 19:23; 2 Chron. 15:1; 2 Chron. 24:20; Job 33:4; Ezek. 11:24; Rom. 8:9; Rom. 8:14; 1 Cor. 2:11, 14; 1 Cor. 3:16; 1 Cor. 6:11; 1 Cor. 7:40; 1 Pet. 4:14; 1 John 4:2
iv. Spirit of Him Who Raised Jesus
from the Dead
Rom. 8:11
v. Spirit of Yahweh
Judg. 3:10; Judg. 6:34; Judg. 11:29; Judg. 13:25; Judg. 14:6; Judg. 14:19; Judg. 15:14; 1 Sam. 10:6; 1 Sam. 16:13–14; 2 Sam. 23:2; 1 Kings 18:12; 2 Kings 18:12; 2 Kings 2:16; 2 Chron. 20:14; Isa. 11:2; Isa. 40:13; Isa. 63:14; Ezek. 11:5; Ezek. 37:1; Mic. 3:8
vi. Spirit of the Living God
2 Cor. 3:3
vii. Spirit of the Lord
Isa. 11:2; Luke 4:18; Acts 5:9; Acts 8:39
viii. Spirit of the Sovereign Lord
Isa. 61:1
ix. Spirit of Your Father
Matt. 10:20
x. Your Spirit
Neh. 9:20, 30; Ps. 104:30; Ps. 139:7; Ps. 143:10

b. The Spirit and the Son…



i. Spirit of Christ
Rom. 8:9; 1 Pet. 1:11
ii. Spirit of His Son
Gal. 4:6
iii. Spirit of Jesus
Acts 16:7
iv. Spirit of Jesus Christ
Phil. 1:19

The Spirit’s Work Is Divine

1. The Spirit Anoints
Acts 10:38; 1 John 2:20, 27
2. The Spirit Calls
2 Thess. 2:13–14
3. The Spirit Contends
Gen. 6:3
4. The Spirit Convicts
John 16:7–11
5. The Spirit Counsels
John 14:16–17; John 14:26; John 15:26; John 16:7
6. The Spirit Creates
Gen. 1:2–3; Job 33:4; Ps. 104:30; Isa. 40:12–14
7. The Spirit Empowers
Judg. 3:10; Judg. 6:34; Matt. 12:28; Acts 1:8; Rom. 15:19; Eph. 3:16
8. The Spirit Fills
Exod. 31:3; Acts 2:1–4; Acts 4:31; Acts 9:17; Acts 13:9; Acts 13:52; Eph. 5:18
9. The Spirit Generates Christ
Luke 1:35
10. The Spirit Gives Gifts


11. See Gifts of the Spirit
12. The Spirit Gives Life
John 6:63; Rom. 1:4; 1 Pet. 3:18
13. The Spirit Illumines
John 14:26
14. The Spirit Indwells
Gen. 41:38; Num. 27:18; Dan. 4:8; John 14:17; Rom. 8:9, 11; 1 Cor. 3:16; 1 Cor. 6:19; Gal. 4:6; 1 John 3:24
15. The Spirit Inspires
2 Tim. 3:16; 2 Pet. 1:21
16. The Spirit Intercedes
Rom. 8:26–27
17. The Spirit Regenerates
John 3:3–6; Titus 3:5
18. The Spirit Reveals
Luke 2:26; John 14:26; John 16:12–15; Acts 21:11; 1 Cor. 2:9–13
19. The Spirit Sanctifies
Rom. 15:16; 1 Cor. 6:11; 2 Thess. 2:13; 1 Pet. 1:2
20. The Spirit Seals
2 Cor. 1:22; 2 Cor. 5:5; Eph. 1:13–14; Eph. 4:30
21. The Spirit Testifies
John 15:26; Acts 5:30–32; Rom. 8:16; Heb. 10:15–17
a. The Holy Spirit in the OT
v. The Spirit Is Active in the World at Large
22. The Spirit as Giver of Life
Job 33:4; Ps. 104:30; Ezek. 37:14
23. The Spirit as Sustainer of Life
Gen. 6:3; Job 32:8; Job 34:14–15

above from a book of Bible lists (forgot the name)

 

[WillieH]

willieH: Hi gradyll...

as fulltruthministry pointed out

As it is written: John 17:5 (KJV)
5And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

what do you think of that verse? Jesus was born in bethlehem yet he had glory before the world began according to John 17:5.

Here is what the Scriptures SAY, and THEY are "what I think":

ALL SONS of GOD, were with the Father BEFORE THE WORLD WAS -- Job 38:7 -- Luke 15:11:-32



Also, "fulltruthministry" (whoever that may be), is irrelevant to our conversation as a reference...

That you continue to need reference to other MEN, to verify your position... only show the weakness of that position...

If a MILLION or TEN MILLION BILLION people BELIEVE a LIE... it does not therefore (due to immense numbers), make that LIE, ...the TRUTH...

How could that be if He was simply a created son of God and not God Himself.

The WORD says that HE WAS MADE -- Heb 2:9 -- not me.

YHVH is the GOD of CHRIST as the WORD SAYS -- Eph 1:3 -- and CHRIST acknowledged this -- Mark 15:34 -- that YOU, in your stiffened unwillingness do not acknowledge it is your own affair.

I choose to use CHRIST's words as my reference, not "fulltruthministy"...

CHRIST many times acknowledged that it was...

the WILL of YHVH -- Mark 14:36 --
the WORDS of YHVH -- John 12:49 -- and,
the ACTIONS of YHVH -- John 5:19, 30 --

that were manifest from and by Him... that YOU do not acknowledge this shall be your own undoing. -- Matt 7:22-23 --

and since you said I drew the picture of the trinity and made it, I found a hand written picture for you

Please... ...whether it be handwritten, computer created, etc... doesn't change an iota of the fallacy of it...

As I said, you crack me up! ...no matter who "drew" this IRRELEVANT PIC... YOU believe it... ...I do not.


BTW --- You have yet to name the BOOK >> CHAPTER >>> and VERSE >>> where the word "trinity" is mentioned in the "Latin bible"... having a bit of trouble areya?

And WHERE is your REFUTE of my words? ...Oh yeah, I keep forgettin... you dont have one...

btw the reasonings of men are not all futile, the trinity though it is not found in the Bible is the very first systematic theology developed other than the duality of Christ.

Blind eyes and deaf ears, shall not see or hear the things of the spirit... as were the Jewish Scribes, Pharisees of old, so do you follow in THEIR unfortunate and crooked footsteps.

I have spent enough time with you... and btw... concerning all the impersonal information you cut and pasted, ...anyone can "cut & paste" a bunch of Scriptures which in themselves only serve to possibly display a lack of ones own personal usages and dedications to them...


You are more than welcome to your "trinity" (and Hell, and whatever other UNBIBLICAL things you embrace), ...really does not matter to me in the slightest... however, ...that you have admitted the "trinity" is UNBIBLICAL, is conclusion enough for me of this convo... ...thanks...


Praise be unto the true GOSPEL message of Peace... -- Eph 6:15 -- Rom 10:15



...willieH

 

[Fulltruthministry]

WOW: alot of words;
I just dont feel the truth:
I think brother willy is comparing Jesus to children in the flesh:
If you want to compare Gods Son to men; then compare Him to our word:
Since Jesus is the word of God:
you compare a human son with Gods Son:
NOT WISE AT ALL: and yet yall know all this stuff: ME: Just trying to learn; i am reading what you are writing; confusion isnt wisdom; it seems like some feel that they have a point as long as its confusing:
Maybe its just me; just trying to learn:

BUT:
What I do see is a person comparing Gods Son to the way we have children in the flesh; thus in my opinion; its alot of waisted thoughts; and even the one that speaks on conversation; as if grady cant conversate: and yet His conversation is onesided and confusing"

Gods Son cant be compared to human children
If anything we can compare Gods Son to our WORD:

And was our WORD created the moment we spoke:
NO
Our word came to be when we learned how to express our will:
does God have to learn; NO

Thus Jesus is the eternal expression of Gods Will:
He is Gods Word:
God didnt give birth to that word:
It was always in God until the Father saw fit to reveal that word and SPEAK LIFE: Through that WORD:

WOW:

The breath of man: The righteousness of God in adam:
Where did it come from;
Was it created;
Was righteousness created:
So how can we percieve Jesus to be created when He reflects that righteousness;
LET THERE BE LIGHT
A WORD
And so it was light
OBEDIENC IN THAT WORD
God gave birth to His Will in JESUS
And through JESUS we are children of Gods will:
Thereby a man cant see God except by Holiness; for by this we show ourselves to be children in the power that makes us holy:
CHRIST
the first SON
And yet that WORD also came as a SON did HE NOT

Thus HE ALWAYS WAS:
PRAISE HIM

 

[Fulltruthministry]

Wise up wise men; seek love and learn

 

[Fulltruthministry]

When you want to have a real conversation or ask a reasonable question; maybe i can enter this conversation with more wisdom in how i speak; because of now; all i hear is people trying to say the same thing different ways; bumping heads; waisting words

 

[Fulltruthministry]

And by the way: That was a very EVIL purple picture:
BECAUSE

If GOD is the SON the FATHER AND THE HOLYSPIRIT
Then how can one say that the Father isnt the HOLY SPIRIT; or the SON ISNT THE HOLY SPIRIT

Your missing something; so let me show you wisdom from an unlearned man in the world; but wise in God through love; love is learning; your waisting your minds:
How about this:


God = Father + Son

Holy Spirit= God = Father + Son

Purpose of HOLY SPIRIT= MAKE ALL OF GODS CHILDREN ONE WITH THE FATHER THROUGH THE SON

THATS LIFE: Just like THAT

NOW; Just because we cant FEEL the full presence of the FATHER AND THE SON: nor the power thereby:
Doenst mean that its not there;
It just means that men arent reaching that place that would allow them to understand that God lives in us through the HOLY SPIRIT if we are TRULY IN THE HOLY SPIRIT
HMM

Did not Jesus say obey Me; and Me and My Father will make Our Home in you;
HOW
Through the HOLY SPIRIT
So the HOLY SPIRIT is God: The presence of the FATHER AND THE SON Living in us;
The problem is that men who think they have the HOLY SPIRIT cant see GOD: thus they cant reason the nature of HIS SPIRIT And presence:

Just because you dont have the power of the HOLY SPIRIT; doesnt mean that it can be weakened by you words

THATS WISDOM
HEAR

 

[Fulltruthministry]

Listen to the newbie:
Love you all; have a blessed night:
Listen to what you are saying; It doenst make spiritual sence; nor is it wise; I bless you all in the Lord as I pray to be blessed; blessing brother grady; I dont know you; but so far i hear the love of God in you. I guess a person cant understand JESUS until they can see how deeply the Father loves the Son.
And to some that doenst make since;
The world loves its own
Glory to God

 

[he-man]

Listen to the newbie:
Love you all; have a blessed night: Listen to what you are saying; It doenst make spiritual sence; nor is it wise; I bless you all in the Lord as I pray to be blessed; blessing brother grady; I dont know you; but so far i hear the love of God in you. I guess a person cant understand JESUS until they can see how deeply the Father loves the Son.And to some that doenst make since; The world loves its own
Glory to God

Do you know what FUTURE tense means
Rev 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

Do you know what FUTURE tense means?

Joh 17:4I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

11And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we

Eph 3:11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

You must mean the eternal purpose was from the foundation of the world to raise Christ from the dead.

So you think we also existed before the world began?

Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

2Ti 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Before the world began - Προ χρονων αιωνιων Before the Mosaic dispensation took place, God purposed the salvation of the Gentiles by Christ Jesus; and the Mosaic dispensation was intended only as the introducer of the Gospel. [CLARKE]

Zec 13:9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.

 

[createdtoworship]

willieH: Hi gradyll...



Here is what the Scriptures SAY, and THEY are "what I think":

ALL SONS of GOD, were with the Father BEFORE THE WORLD WAS -- Job 38:7 -- Luke 15:11:-32



Also, "fulltruthministry" (whoever that may be), is irrelevant to our conversation as a reference...

That you continue to need reference to other MEN, to verify your position... only show the weakness of that position...

If a MILLION or TEN MILLION BILLION people BELIEVE a LIE... it does not therefore (due to immense numbers), make that LIE, ...the TRUTH...



The WORD says that HE WAS MADE -- Heb 2:9 -- not me.

YHVH is the GOD of CHRIST as the WORD SAYS -- Eph 1:3 -- and CHRIST acknowledged this -- Mark 15:34 -- that YOU, in your stiffened unwillingness do not acknowledge it is your own affair.

I choose to use CHRIST's words as my reference, not "fulltruthministy"...

CHRIST many times acknowledged that it was...

the WILL of YHVH -- Mark 14:36 --
the WORDS of YHVH -- John 12:49 -- and,
the ACTIONS of YHVH -- John 5:19, 30 --

that were manifest from and by Him... that YOU do not acknowledge this shall be your own undoing. -- Matt 7:22-23 --





Please... ...whether it be handwritten, computer created, etc... doesn't change an iota of the fallacy of it...

As I said, you crack me up! ...no matter who "drew" this IRRELEVANT PIC... YOU believe it... ...I do not.


BTW --- You have yet to name the BOOK >> CHAPTER >>> and VERSE >>> where the word "trinity" is mentioned in the "Latin bible"... having a bit of trouble areya?

And WHERE is your REFUTE of my words? ...Oh yeah, I keep forgettin... you dont have one...




Blind eyes and deaf ears, shall not see or hear the things of the spirit... as were the Jewish Scribes, Pharisees of old, so do you follow in THEIR unfortunate and crooked footsteps.

I have spent enough time with you... and btw... concerning all the impersonal information you cut and pasted, ...anyone can "cut & paste" a bunch of Scriptures which in themselves only display a lack of ones own personal usages and dedications to them...


You are more than welcome to your "trinity" (and Hell, and whatever other UNBIBLICAL things you embrace), ...really does not matter to me in the slightest... however, ...that you have admitted the "trinity" is UNBIBLICAL, is conclusion enough for me of this convo... ...thanks...


Praise be unto the true GOSPEL message of Peace... -- Eph 6:15 -- Rom 10:15



...willieH

according to Harpers Bible Dictionary "sons of God" in the old testament were angels not human (like the mormon belief)

Harper's Bible Dictionary. 1st ed. San Francisco : Harper & Row, 1985, S. 981

sons of God, children of God, phrases denoting superhuman beings. The words ‘sons of’ (Heb. bene) in this phrase indicate the members of a people, tribe, or group, just as ‘sons/children of Israel’ (Heb. bene ysrael) means ‘Israelites.’ The ‘sons’ or ‘children of God’ in the ot refer to different beings, the main alternatives being reflected in two prominent groups of texts.
In the first group is the enigmatic passage in Gen. 6:1-4, which gives an account of how the union of ‘the sons of God’ with ‘the daughters of men’ produced a race of ‘mighty men that were of old.’ Here the expression clearly refers to divine beings, and male divine beings at that, given their union with human women. The passage is a remnant of ancient Near Eastern mythological tradition. In the Ugaritic texts, for example, the pantheon or the gods as a whole are identified as the children of the chief god, ‘the totality of the sons/children of El.’
There are other ot texts in which ‘sons/children of God’ refers to divine beings. In Job 38:7 the phrase occurs in parallel with ‘the morning stars’ (rsv), and in Ps. 89:6, a heavily mythological hymn, God is beyond comparison with other deities, the ‘sons of God’ (rsv fn.). In Ps. 29:1 the ‘heavenly beings’ (rsv fn., ‘sons of God&#8217 are called to praise God. The expression also appears in Deut. 32:8 (rsv reading with 40 from the Dead Sea Scrolls and similar to lxx; mt reads ‘sons of Israel&#8217. The phrase is closely related to the idea of a heavenly court as in Psalm 82 (see also, e.g., Isa. 6; Ezek. 1-3).
The other prominent context, reflecting a somewhat different use of the term, is Job 1-2, in which ‘the satan’ is one of ‘the sons of God’ (1:6; 2:1). Here the lxx translates the phrase ‘angels’ (Gk. angeloi). That seems to be an accurate interpretation, for the ‘sons of God’ here certainly are not deities as such. They are subordinate to God and function primarily as messengers. Similar in force is the reference in Dan. 3:25 to the fourth figure in the furnace whose appearance was like ‘a son of the gods.’ In later, mainly apocalyptic, reflection such ideas provided the basis for accounts of the rebellion or fall of the angels (1 Enoch 6-36; Jubilees 5:1-10).


Achtemeier, Paul J. ; Harper & Row, Publishers ; Society of Biblical Literature: Harper's Bible Dictionary. 1st ed. San Francisco : Harper & Row, 1985, S. 981

another encyclopedia that agrees with me

In the passages from Job and Psalms it is applied to supernatural beings or angels. In Job the “sons of God” are represented as appearing before the throne of Yahweh in heaven, ready to do Him service, and as shouting for joy at the creation of the earth, In the Psalms they are summoned to celebrate the glory of Yahweh, for there is none among them to be compared to Him. The phrase in these passages has no physical or moral reference. These heavenly beings are called “sons of God” or “sons of the ’elohim” simply as belonging to the same class or guild as the ’elohim, just as “sons of the prophets” denotes those who belong to the prophetic order (see A.B. Davidson, Commentary on Job 1:6&#65279.

Orr, James, M.A., D.D.: Orr, James (Hrsg.): The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia : 1915 Edition. Albany, OR : Ages Software, 1999

and another dictionary that agrees that "sons of God" in the old testament is angels

In the Book of Job the phrase is used for angelic or nonhuman beings (Job 1:6; 2:1). These sons of God presented themselves before God in what might be called a heavenly assembly. Satan appeared with them, although this does not necessarily mean he was one of the “sons of God.” Thus the stage was set for the telling of the story of Job.

Youngblood, Ronald F. ; Bruce, F. F. ; Harrison, R. K. ; Thomas Nelson Publishers: Nelson's New Illustrated Bible Dictionary. Nashville : T. Nelson, 1995

other commentaries that agree with me

Sons of God-The angels called the sons of God
Wesleys study notes

"and the angels (lit., “the sons of God”; cf. Job l:6; 2:1) shouted with joy over God’s Creation of the earth."
Walvoord, John F. ; Zuck, Roy B. ; Dallas Theological Seminary: The Bible Knowledge Commentary : An Exposition of the Scriptures. Wheaton, IL : Victor Books, 1983-c1985, S. 1:767

Creation was so wonderful that the stars sang in chorus and the angels (Job 1:6; 2:1) shouted for joy, but Job wasn’t on the scene!
Wiersbe, Warren W.: Be Patient. Wheaton, Ill. : Victor Books, 1996, c1991 (An Old Testament Study), S. Job 38:1

like many others in this section of the book, is figurative, referring to the harmony of the universe and the joy among the angels.
Believer's Study Bible. electronic ed. Nashville : Thomas Nelson, 1997, c1995, S. Job 38:7

They are symbols of the angels, bearing the same relation to our earth, as angels do to us. Therefore they answer to “sons of God,” or angels, in the parallel. See on Job 25:5.
Jamieson, Robert ; Fausset, A. R. ; Fausset, A. R. ; Brown, David ; Brown, David: A Commentary, Critical and Explanatory, on the Old and New Testaments. Oak Harbor, WA : Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1997, S. Job 38:7

(v. 7), when the morning-stars sang together, the blessed angels (the first-born of the Father of light), who, in the morning of time, shone as brightly as the morning star, going immediately before the light which God commanded to shine out of darkness upon the seeds of this lower world, the earth, which was without form and void. They were the sons of God, who shouted for joy
Henry, Matthew: Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible : Complete and Unabridged in One Volume. Peabody : Hendrickson, 1996, c1991, S. Job 38:4

The cornerstone, as it were, was laid with great rejoicing among “the morning stars” and “the sons of God” (angels). The “morning stars” may be another name for the “sons of God” or the phrase may refer to the planets and stars.
Smith, James E.: The Wisdom Literature and Psalms. Joplin, Mo. : College Press Pub. Co., 1996, S. Job 38:4-18

38:7 sons of God: Angels.
The Open Bible commentary

38:7 For the personification of natural forces as God’s angels see Ps. 104:4 and Heb. 1:7.
Whitlock, Luder G. ; Sproul, R. C. ; Waltke, Bruce K. ; Silva, Moisš: Reformation Study Bible, the : Bringing the Light of the Reformation to Scripture : New King James Version. Nashville : T. Nelson, 1995, S. Job 38:7

The angels, or the “sons of God,” rejoiced as they witnessed creation (38:7; cf. 1:6).
Hughes, Robert B. ; Laney, J. Carl: Tyndale Concise Bible Commentary. Wheaton, Ill. : Tyndale House Publishers, 2001 (The Tyndale Reference Library), S. 196

Job 38:7 refers to the rejoicing of the angels when God created the universe.
Wiersbe, Warren W.: Wiersbe's Expository Outlines on the Old Testament. Wheaton, IL : Victor Books, 1993, S. Job 38:1

and the “sons of God” or angels together sang in joyful praise at the creation scene.
Thomas Nelson, Inc: Woman's Study Bible . Nashville : Thomas Nelson, 1997, c1995, S. Job 38:7

Cyprian (c. 195 or 200-258). Cyprian of Carthage wrote some eighty-one letters and twelve long treatises in Latin. He was one of the most careful and accurate quoters of the Bible in the early church. In his writings, Cyprian made about 740 Old and 1,030 New Testament quotations. He cited all the New Testament books except Philemon and 2 John. The quotations of Cyprian from the gospels adhere to the Old Latin k text-type.18
A brief inventory at this point will reveal that there were some thirty-two thousand citations of the New Testament prior to the time of the Council of Nicea (325). Those thirty-two thousand quotations are by no means exhaustive, and they do not even include the fourth-century writers. Just adding the number of references used by one other writer, Eusebius, who flourished prior to and contemporary with the Council at Nicea, will bring the total citations of the New Testament to over thirty-six thousand. Hence, prior to the period of the Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, there is overwhelming evidence in the manifold witness of the outstanding church Fathers to the text of the New Testament.
THE NICENE AND POST-NICENE FATHERS (C. 300-C. 430)
The Nicene-Post-Nicene period of church history must be discussed at this point, because the New Testament canon had not yet been formally recognized by the entire church in A.D. 325 (see chap. 16). During the period prior to the Council at Nicea, the church had gone through a series of local and imperial persecutions. As late as 302/3 the Emperor Diocletian had decreed that all copies of the Scriptures be destroyed and those people having them in their possession be punished (often unto death).19 Thus, the Fathers of the period under discussion appeared after the Edict of Galerius (311) and the Edict of Milan (313), with the exception of Eusebius of Caesarea, who bridged the transition from “the persecuted to the patronized Church.”

from Geisler, Norman L. ; Nix, William E.: A General Introduction to the Bible. Rev. and expanded. Chicago : Moody Press, 1996, c1986, S. 419

 

[WillieH]

willieH: Hi FTM...

Listen to the newbie:
Love you all; have a blessed night:
Listen to what you are saying; It doenst make spiritual sence

You would do well to listen to your own words, bro!

If your message is not FULL of PEACE, then your message is NOT the GOSPEL of PEACE -- Rom 6:15 -- Eph 6:15 -- Nor are they the words of the GOD of PEACE -- Rom 15:33 -- Phil 4:9

GOD does not change (that which is PERFECT is not in need of change) -- Mal 3:6 -- (He being "other" than of PEACE), ...nor do His WORDS ever vary in any way -- James 1:17 -- (if they are of PEACE, then they were of PEACE and ALWAYS will be of PEACE)...


So if your words do not bring and convey PEACE... then your words are not His, nor are they emergent of Him...

WITHOUT RESPECT of PERSONS (for partiality is NOT GOOD) -- Prov 28:21 -- is HIS PEACE found in ALL...


Peace be untaya...

...willieH

 

[WillieH]

willieH: Hi FTM...

WOW: alot of words;
I just dont feel the truth:
I think brother willy is comparing Jesus to children in the flesh:

WOW indeed (see the end of this post!

FIRST --- TRUTH is not "felt", it is either KNOWN or it is NOT.


SECOND --- The report of SCRIPTURE (as opposed to this "opinion" of YOURS, which is devoid of it):

JESUS CHRIST was a MAN -- 1 Tim 2:5 -- His GENEOLOGY is OF MEN -- Matt 1:1-16 -- Luke 3:23-38 -- and He HAS a GOD -- Eph 1:3 -- Mark 15:34

GOD cannot be tempted -- JESUS wss TEMPTED -- Heb 2:10
GOD cannot die --JESUS died -- Do I need to prove this to you?
GOD had nothing preceeding Him -- JESUS came forth from, and was SENT by GOD -- Heb 2:9 -- 1 John 4:14

Regardless of how you might try to deter ALL of these, ...they SAY what they SAY... and your reductions of them shall be not be found in the everlasting.

If you want to compare Gods Son to men; then compare Him to our word:
Since Jesus is the word of God:
you compare a human son with Gods Son:
NOT WISE AT ALL:

Right backacha bro...

Not "wise" your own self...

I believe what is WRITTEN... you are welcome to continually reject it, to your own forthcoming dismay -- Matt 7:22-23

ALL MEN are "sons" of God -- John 1:9 -- Psalm 82:6 -- John 10:34 -- and therefore the OFFSPRING of GOD, and due to HIS parentage of us, ...of the species -- "god".

You are welcome to embrace this very common deception... The WORD of GOD was manifest IN and BY, JESUS -- John 12:49 -- the WORD of YHVH did not ORIGINATE from Him... and He admitted this openly -- John 5:19, 30 -- John 12:49

He was the very EXPRESSION and IMAGE of God, ...not GOD -- Heb 1:3

No offense bro... but LOGIC escapes your vision...

When you look into a MIRROR, the REFLECTION is NOT YOU... it is a REFLECTION of you... If your thinking were actually valid, the "reflection" in the mirror could eat, pray, read a paper, ride on a bus, take a vacation, etc...

JESUS however, is indeed LORD of Lords and KING of Kings, because He submitted to YHVH GOD (as will ALL eventually -- 1 Cor 15:28 -- Phil 4:10-11) in His every word and deed, where ALL other men do not...


THIRD --- You might do a bit of research concerning the word "JESUS"... actually it is IESOUS -- #G2424 -- which is derivitive of the Hebrew word -- YeHoVsHuwa -- #H3091-- which by definition means: YHVH saves -- #H3091

Go purchase a Strongs concordance/lexicon, and read for yourself (if you really are trying to "learn") ---->

and yet yall know all this stuff: ME: Just trying to learn; i am reading what you are writing; confusion isnt wisdom; it seems like some feel that they have a point as long as its confusing:
Maybe its just me; just trying to learn:

BUT:
What I do see is a person comparing Gods Son to the way we have children in the flesh; thus in my opinion; its alot of waisted thoughts; and even the one that speaks on conversation; as if grady cant conversate: and yet His conversation is onesided and confusing"

Gods Son cant be compared to human children
If anything we can compare Gods Son to our WORD:

And was our WORD created the moment we spoke:
NO
Our word came to be when we learned how to express our will:
does God have to learn; NO

Thus Jesus is the eternal expression of Gods Will:
He is Gods Word:
God didnt give birth to that word:
It was always in God until the Father saw fit to reveal that word and SPEAK LIFE: Through that WORD:

WOW:

The breath of man: The righteousness of God in adam:
Where did it come from;
Was it created;
Was righteousness created:
So how can we percieve Jesus to be created when He reflects that righteousness;
LET THERE BE LIGHT
A WORD
And so it was light
OBEDIENC IN THAT WORD
God gave birth to His Will in JESUS
And through JESUS we are children of Gods will:
Thereby a man cant see God except by Holiness; for by this we show ourselves to be children in the power that makes us holy:
CHRIST
the first SON
And yet that WORD also came as a SON did HE NOT

Thus HE ALWAYS WAS:
PRAISE HIM

As I said previously to gradyll... ALL SONS of God, have "always been" -- Job 38:7 -- Luke 15:11-32 -- (you must've missed that part, eh? ) --

Our commonly shared SINFUL state has separated ALL of us from the memory of this fact. But the Scriptures testify of it... that is, ...if you have EARS to HEAR...


And btw... WOW! indeed! ALL those words (above) of YOURS, ...and NOT even ONE, of His...



Peace...


...willieH

 

[WillieH]

willieH: Hi FTM...

When you want to have a real conversation or ask a reasonable question; maybe i can enter this conversation with more wisdom in how i speak; because of now; all i hear is people trying to say the same thing different ways; bumping heads; waisting words

Otay... remember... YOU asked for it!

JESUS was SENT to SAVE the WORLD ...in which ALL are LOST -- 1 John 4:14 -- Luke 19:10 --

here's my "REASONABLE" question:

Did He SUCCEED or... did He FAIL?


pEACE...


...willieH

 

[he-man]

according to Harpers Bible Dictionary "sons of God" in the old testament were angels not human (like the mormon belief)

My my my, what a bunch of nonsense.
Are you without knowledge?
for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me. declare, if thou hast understanding

Job 1:5...Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts.

6 There was a day when the sons of God came to stand before Jehovah, and a cynical person [adversary] came up also among them.

38:2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?

3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

12 Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days; and caused the dayspring to know his place;

So, in verse 2 the angels aready praised God and they were created the rest is the story of creation; the sun and moon: praise him, all ye stars of light.

So answer me, I will demand of thee, and answer thou me. declare, if thou hast understanding

Psa 148:1 Praise ye the LORD. Praise ye the LORD from the heavens: praise him in the heights.
2 Praise ye him, all his angels: praise ye him, all his hosts.
3 Praise ye him, sun and moon: praise him, all ye stars of light.
4 Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, and ye waters that be above the heavens.
5 Let them praise the name of the LORD: for He commanded, and they were created.

 

[LutheranMafia]

Do you know what FUTURE tense means

Do you know what FUTURE tense means?

Oh course he knows what future tense means. Being snide and condescending does not reflect a man of Godly wisdom.

 

[Fulltruthministry]

willieH: Hi FTM...



You would do well to listen to your own words, bro!

If your message is not FULL of PEACE, then your message is NOT the GOSPEL of PEACE -- Rom 6:15 -- Eph 6:15 -- Nor are they the words of the GOD of PEACE -- Rom 15:33 -- Phil 4:9

GOD does not change (that which is PERFECT is not in need of change) -- Mal 3:6 -- (He being "other" than of PEACE), ...nor do His WORDS ever vary in any way -- James 1:17 -- (if they are of PEACE, then they were of PEACE and ALWAYS will be of PEACE)...


So if your words do not bring and convey PEACE... then your words are not His, nor are they emergent of Him...

WITHOUT RESPECT of PERSONS (for partiality is NOT GOOD) -- Prov 28:21 -- is HIS PEACE found in ALL...


Peace be untaya...

...willieH

love you all have a blessed night;
how are my words not peaceful
should i have called you a brood of vipers

And i am not partial to the person; only to the truth: Glory to God:
Thus i find in my heart to judge between whats true and untrue according to the love and conviction of my heart: If you dont recieve it; thats on you; why would you want to paint me as being evil; unless you are familiar with the texture of the canvas that you THINK you can put me on: Bless you brother; BUT if you are not speaking the truth; i will tell you because of the truth; not your person; I dont know you; keep ya heart right; Bless you

 

[Fulltruthministry]

willieH: Hi FTM...




Otay... remember... YOU asked for it!

JESUS was SENT to SAVE the WORLD ...in which ALL are LOST -- 1 John 4:14 -- Luke 19:10 --

here's my "REASONABLE" question:

Did He SUCCEED or... did He FAIL?


pEACE...


...willieH

I didnt ask for anything willie
nor do i invite anything;
say what you will; and be blessed

 

[Fulltruthministry]

willieH: Hi FTM...




Otay... remember... YOU asked for it!

JESUS was SENT to SAVE the WORLD ...in which ALL are LOST -- 1 John 4:14 -- Luke 19:10 --

here's my "REASONABLE" question:

Did He SUCCEED or... did He FAIL?


pEACE...


...willieH

And since your question is so REASONABLE
I will get back to you on that day; when He Saves my soul from the flames of judgement:
And yet Salvation also pertians to being delivered from sin:
SO NO
The world itself answers your question:
The narrow road anwers your question:
Gods patience gives Him Glory:
Being that God doenst want any to parish:
The WORLD world could live if; in my Fathers house are many mansions;
We just choose death

 

[createdtoworship]

Job 1:5...Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts.

6 There was a day when the sons of God came to stand before Jehovah, and a cynical person [adversary] came up also among them.

38:2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?

3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

12 Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days; and caused the dayspring to know his place;


[/U][/I]
So answer me, I will demand of thee, and answer thou me. declare, if thou hast understanding

Psa 148:1 Praise ye the LORD. Praise ye the LORD from the heavens: praise him in the heights.
2 Praise ye him, all his angels: praise ye him, all his hosts.
3 Praise ye him, sun and moon: praise him, all ye stars of light.
4 Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, and ye waters that be above the heavens.
5 Let them praise the name of the LORD: for He commanded, and they were created.

New International Version states it is angels in verse seven

"while the morning stars sang together
and all the angels shouted for joy? "

So, in verse 2 the angels aready praised God and they were created the rest is the story of creation; the sun and moon: praise him, all ye stars of light.

the rest of your comments make no sense, verse two of Job 38 isn't' talking about angels praising God.

My my my, what a bunch of nonsense.
Are you without knowledge?

you are really arguing against 12 commentaries and 3 dictionaries and encyclopedias? In fact every book I looked at had the same observations regarding Job 37:8, namely that the sons of God were angels. What OTHER sources do you have that agree with you, or are you all alone with the Mormons on this one.
Proverbs 11:14
Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me. declare, if thou hast understanding

only God has the right to say this, not you.

 

[Fulltruthministry]

willieH: Hi FTM...



WOW indeed (see the end of this post!

FIRST --- TRUTH is not "felt", it is either KNOWN or it is NOT.


SECOND --- The report of SCRIPTURE (as opposed to this "opinion" of YOURS, which is devoid of it):

JESUS CHRIST was a MAN -- 1 Tim 2:5 -- His GENEOLOGY is OF MEN -- Matt 1:1-16 -- Luke 3:23-38 -- and He HAS a GOD -- Eph 1:3 -- Mark 15:34

GOD cannot be tempted -- JESUS wss TEMPTED -- Heb 2:10
GOD cannot die --JESUS died -- Do I need to prove this to you?
GOD had nothing preceeding Him -- JESUS came forth from, and was SENT by GOD -- Heb 2:9 -- 1 John 4:14

Regardless of how you might try to deter ALL of these, ...they SAY what they SAY... and your reductions of them shall be not be found in the everlasting.



Right backacha bro...

Not "wise" your own self...

I believe what is WRITTEN... you are welcome to continually reject it, to your own forthcoming dismay -- Matt 7:22-23

ALL MEN are "sons" of God -- John 1:9 -- Psalm 82:6 -- John 10:34 -- and therefore the OFFSPRING of GOD, and due to HIS parentage of us, ...of the species -- "god".

You are welcome to embrace this very common deception... The WORD of GOD was manifest IN and BY, JESUS -- John 12:49 -- the WORD of YHVH did not ORIGINATE from Him... and He admitted this openly -- John 5:19, 30 -- John 12:49

He was the very EXPRESSION and IMAGE of God, ...not GOD -- Heb 1:3

No offense bro... but LOGIC escapes your vision...

When you look into a MIRROR, the REFLECTION is NOT YOU... it is a REFLECTION of you... If your thinking were actually valid, the "reflection" in the mirror could eat, pray, read a paper, ride on a bus, take a vacation, etc...

JESUS however, is indeed LORD of Lords and KING of Kings, because He submitted to YHVH GOD (as will ALL eventually -- 1 Cor 15:28 -- Phil 4:10-11) in His every word and deed, where ALL other men do not...


THIRD --- You might do a bit of research concerning the word "JESUS"... actually it is IESOUS -- #G2424 -- which is derivitive of the Hebrew word -- YeHoVsHuwa -- #H3091-- which by definition means: YHVH saves -- #H3091

Go purchase a Strongs concordance/lexicon, and read for yourself (if you really are trying to "learn") ---->



As I said previously to gradyll... ALL SONS of God, have "always been" -- Job 38:7 -- Luke 15:11-32 -- (you must've missed that part, eh? ) --

Our commonly shared SINFUL state has separated ALL of us from the memory of this fact. But the Scriptures testify of it... that is, ...if you have EARS to HEAR...


And btw... WOW! indeed! ALL those words (above) of YOURS, ...and NOT even ONE, of His...



Peace...


...willieH

QOUTE
JESUS CHRIST was a MAN -- 1 Tim 2:5 -- His GENEOLOGY is OF MEN -- Matt 1:1-16 -- Luke 3:23-38 -- and He HAS a GOD -- Eph 1:3 -- Mark 15:34
END QOUTE

Let me help you out a little with this; I pray that you will receive:
FIRST

Ephesians 1:3
King James Version (KJV)
3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

YES: The Father is the Head of the Son: That what this means; This DOES not say the SON isn’t GOD: That’s what you say:
This says the Father has put all things in the SON; are you saying the Father is empty; or is the SON GOD IN THE FATHER
Being that WE are blessed IN CHRIST
SO I will show you all that your words condemn you; you are allowing the enemy to exclude you from God in your words; rather you see it or not; its there; I will show you; HEAR:


HEAR THIS ALSO

Mark 15:34
King James Version (KJV)
34And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?


LOOK HOW EITHER
WICKED OR CONFUSED YOU ARE
ONE OR THE OTHER; or both
But your using an example that shows the only time in eternity when the Son was separated from the Father:
And The Father allowed His Son to die so that HE can raise Him and create a space for us to enter the Father; SO AGAIN: YOU GO AGAINST YOUR OWN SALVATION: OR atleast oppurtinity:
This is what said when JESUS DIED:
He felt forsaken as if the FATHER LEFT HIM
Thus doesn’t that mean that the FATHER WAS WITH HIM BEFORE HE DIED
So you are using a part of God when He allowed the Son to separate to prove that JESUS isn’t GOD: WICKED
Showing that your mind and the enemy of your soul wants to separate you from the Son; thus keeping you out of the FATHER: Thus keeping you out of GOD:
HEAR YOUR WORDS: humble your heart and hear:


LETS continue wise one of the world:




QOUTE
GOD cannot be tempted -- JESUS wss TEMPTED -- Heb 2:10
GOD cannot die --JESUS died -- Do I need to prove this to you?
GOD had nothing preceeding Him -- JESUS came forth from, and was SENT by GOD -- Heb 2:9 -- 1 John 4:14

Regardless of how you might try to deter ALL of these, ...they SAY what they SAY... and your reductions of them shall be not be found in the everlasting.
END QOUTE



SO you say God when it fits you and the Father when it fits you; DO YOU SEE THAT IN YOURSELF
Let clear this up:

THE FATHER wasn’t tempted: Jesus was:
THE FATHER didn’t die: The SON DID
The FATHER HAS NOTHING proceeding Him:
JESUS WAS SENT FORTH FROM THE FATHER:
Your funny; I am starting to feel a direct offense; you know what you are doing; but you just don’t fear God: Bless you





QOUTE
ALL MEN are "sons" of God -- John 1:9 -- Psalm 82:6 -- John 10:34 -- and therefore the OFFSPRING of GOD, and due to HIS parentage of us, ...of the species -- "god".

You are welcome to embrace this very common deception... The WORD of GOD was manifest IN and BY, JESUS -- John 12:49 -- the WORD of YHVH did not ORIGINATE from Him... and He admitted this openly -- John 5:19, 30 -- John 12:49
END QOUTE





NO one is saying that; its your mind that’s creating arguments: I said JESUS IS the WORD OF GOD: IS brother;
And all men are not sons of GOD: You can all of that; but the Word must be considered in its entirety:


John 8:44
New International Version (NIV)
44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.







QOUTE
He was the very EXPRESSION and IMAGE of God, ...not GOD -- Heb 1:3
No offense bro... but LOGIC escapes your vision...
When you look into a MIRROR, the REFLECTION is NOT YOU... it is a REFLECTION of you... If your thinking were actually valid, the "reflection" in the mirror could eat, pray, read a paper, ride on a bus, take a vacation, etc...
END QOUTE




The VERY EXPRESSION AND IMAGE
But not GOD;
Your funny:
So when you look at yourself who do you see brother; NOT WISE
But lets consider your thoughts anyway; maybe you can see through your pride and humble your heart to see that I am saying that JESUS IS GOD BECAUSE HE IS ONE WITH THE FATHER
You know what we are saying, but you would rather play games instead of seeking truth; EXPOSED: EASY: BLESS YOU
You should see that I am NOT SAYING that JESUS IS THE FATHER: I AM Saying that GOD IS THE FATHER AND THE SON:
The FATHER IS THE HEAD OF THE SON:
What cant you grasp about that: Your words don’t argue against this; but rather you paint a picture of what you perceive me to have said: NOT WISE: Humble yourself:

Cont...