• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Let's Talk About Hell (4)

Status
Not open for further replies.
Sep 27, 2011
150
4
✟30,303.00
Faith
Christian
QOUTE
THIRD --- You might do a bit of research concerning the word "JESUS"... actually it is IESOUS-- #G2424 -- which is derivitive of the Hebrew word -- YeHoVsHuwa -- #H3091-- which by definition means: YHVH saves -- #H3091
END QOUTE


So if JESUS Means the FATHER SAVES: or GOD SAVES: or YHVH saves; Then why cant you see that the one that YHVH saves through is One with Himself: IF GOD SAVES AND WE ARE SAVED IN JESUS then JESUS IS GOD
You cant refute that with Gods Word; only with your own mind:

I see you ran a little scared with this one; people do that when they really have no truth; they start picking apart the name; wont work; stay blessed: what will you say next; there is no j in the hebrew: Childs play; i think ive said enough: Humble me Lord; Blessings brother
some real characters in here; and you think your wise; but me; im just a young kid that overcame these streets; no education; so sorry if i dont use strongs; not that i cant; but God gets the glory for using foolish things to confound those that profess to be wise in their own selves


So have a good night brother willy;
BUT
Whats so twisted about this thread is this:
I hate to say this being that i dont agree with how you express the truth of Christ;
But we are close to saying the same thing; but we would rather sound wise in the way we want to say it; maybe thats me:
But YOU
Just wont hear whats said; you are speaking against something i never said; you act like there is no Father sometimes; and sometimes you act like JESUS is a man; I mean its VERY confusing; but on a childish surface

We are saying close to the same thing; and i will be big enough to admit it:

You are saying JESUS isnt GOD:
But you are proving that JESUS isnt the FATHER
NOT WISE
I said that JESUS is GOD; but ofcourse He is not the FATHER: so we are acting like KIDs
A confused child; God bless you; no disrespect; we both are men; Bless you
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

WillieH

Newbie
Mar 1, 2006
637
11
Spokane, WA
✟838.00
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Married
wiillieH: Hi FTM... :wave:

Let's not play cat & mouse, FTM... answer the question. ;) ...in a recent post you were complaining about "wasted words"... and yet you put forth your best effort to AVOID answering my VERY SIMPLE and REASONABLE question? :confused:

Answer it, if you are able. In this reply you only display that, in this moment, ...you are NOT ABLE.

Here is what YOU said:

Originally Posted by Fulltruthministry
When you want to have a real conversation or ask a reasonable question; maybe i can enter this conversation with more wisdom in how i speak; because of now; all i hear is people trying to say the same thing different ways; bumping heads; waisting words
Now to address your evasive reply:

And since your question is so REASONABLE
I will get back to you on that day; when He Saves my soul from the flames of judgement:

FIRST --- This is not a REASONABLE answer to my REASONABLE question.

Actually the SCRIPTURES are quite PLAIN as to the VICTORY and completion of the WORK of CHRIST concerning SALVATION... I would be happy to provide you the Scriptures if you are unaware of them! ;) (and it seems very apparent that you are unaware of them)

This sidestep answer, does not address the information given in Scripture concerning the SALVATION of the WORLD... that GOD so (unchangingly) LOVES -- John 3:16

I did NOT ask you if He SAVED YOU, or WHEN He saved YOU...

You have your own personal testimony and opinion as to whether or not you believe you are SAVED... which is essentially centered upon YOURSELF.

My question was:

JESUS was sent to SAVE the WORLD -- 1 John 4:14 -- Did He SUCCEED to SAVE the WORLD? ...or ...Did He FAIL to SAVE the WORLD?


SECOND --- "Flames of JUDGMENT"? Upon what do you base this? GOD's JUDGMENT is SPIRITUAL... are those "flames" literal to you?

LOVE casts OUT FEAR -- 1 John 4:18 -- those who FEAR, and/or teach and PROMOTE others to FEAR, are NOT at PEACE, nor is their MESSAGE of PEACE -- Eph 6:15 -- nor are they complete in the LOVE of the Father.


And yet Salvation also pertians to being delivered from sin:
SO NO
The world itself answers your question:
The narrow road anwers your question:

^_^ ...do you always tiptoe around the point instead of answering it, bro?

Usually one which attempts to give such a VAGUE reply, does not really have a valid answer to the question. Especially since only ONE WORD is required to answer that REASONABLE question.

DID JESUS ...SUCCEED or FAIL to SAVE the WORLD, FTM?

Your observance of the sorrowful condition of the WORLD is not an answer to the question...

Nor do you have any information as to individual experience... for you have YET to DIE... and have NOT been (nor ever will be) present in the Heart of ANYONE who has DIED... so you do NOT KNOW the last moment of the LIFE contained in those hearts, nor what TOOK PLACE in those hearts...

Therefore you can only make a finite, and at best, ...PERIPHERAL SPECULATION as to whether or not another person is SAVED... and NO RIGHT whatsoever (due to YOUR pitifuly limited observance of their life), to JUDGE Salvation concerning them. :doh:

Gods patience gives Him Glory:

Patience is an aspect of WAITING... God does not "WAIT" upon us... we WAIT upon Him... :)

Yesterday, today and forever are ALL the same to GOD... "Patience" is not an issue with Him. ...however, ...patience is an ISSUE with US.



Being that God doenst want any to parish:
The WORLD world could live if; in my Fathers house are many mansions;
We just choose death

More of the same dance (tiptoeing)... :sorry: ...why not "save words" and get to answering my question?

DID He or DID He NOT... SAVE the WORLD? Which was HIS MISSION -- 1 John 4:14 -- Luke 19:10 -- Isaiah 55:11

You almost crack me up as much as gradyll... sleepily sidestepping instead of answering forthright what is asked of you...

Endeavoring to be poetic and/or religiously eloquent, instead of just coming to the point, and answering the questions!

What GOD "wants" will happen... :thumbsup: ...bet on it! ^_^

2 Pet 3:9 -- notes INTENT (BOULEMA -- #G1014 = unwilling) that NONE PERISH... It is His HOLY INTENT -- Isaiah 55:11 -- which cannot be overridden by FINITE and SINFUL beings, which CENTER upon themselves as having a "will", which might render INERT, the DESIRE or WILL of the ALMIGHTY.

GOD is ALMIGHTY for a reason... and that REASON is that ALL MIGHT is HIS... His WAY is the ONLY WAY that shall prevail...

The steps of ALL MEN are ORDERED by Him -- Jer 10:23 -- Prov 20:24 -- Isaiah 26:7-8 -- Prov 16:1 -- Prov 16:9 -- Prov 21:1 -- and ARE NOT in the Hand of MEN...

YE are NOT your own, for YE are BOUGHT with a PRICE -- 1 Tim 2:6 -- 1 Cor 6:19-20 -- ALL MEN are His...

The FATHER YHVH is PARENT to ALL SPIRITS -- Heb 12:9 -- John 1:9

As happens EVERY-DAY in LIFE on earth... A PARENT FIRMLY holds the hand of his child as they cross the busy and LIFE THREATENING street... and the PALTRY strength and ill-informed will of the child WILL tug or oppose that FIRM grip all that it is able... But the INTENT of the PARENT will bring the child (and its LIFE) SAFELY to the other side of the street, irregardless of the child's foolish mindset, and actions it weakly proposes against that safety.


WISDOM... It is right before you FTM, in life... for JESUS (the Salvation of YHVH) is not only IN the WORD, but IN the LIFE as well...



Peace.... :groupray:

...willieH :hug:
 
Upvote 0

WillieH

Newbie
Mar 1, 2006
637
11
Spokane, WA
✟838.00
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Married
willieH: Hi FTM... :wave:

You quoted my words:

willieH said:
willieH said:
--- You might do a bit of research concerning the word "JESUS"... actually it is IESOUS-- #G2424 -- which is derivitive of the Hebrew word -- YeHoVsHuwa -- #H3091-- which by definition means: YHVH saves -- #H3091


So if JESUS Means the FATHER SAVES: or GOD SAVES: or YHVH saves;

IF? There is no question as to the meaning of the word JESUS... and shame on you for even supposing it. Be careful bro.

Then why cant you see that the one that YHVH saves through is One with Himself: IF GOD SAVES AND WE ARE SAVED IN JESUS then JESUS IS GOD

You begin with presuppositions and your conclusion is the fruit of them.

Your focus is upon the FLESH concerning CHRIST, as is your suppositions of Him... and we are instructed no longer to observe Him in this way -- 2 Cor 5:16

GOD is NOT flesh, He is SPIRIT...

JESUS was a (FLESHLY) MAN ...and SCRIPTURE notes this -- 1 Tim 2:5 -- as well as clearly shows He was... as He was TEMPTED, and DIED... 2 MAJOR things that cannot affect GOD.

GOD is EVERLASTING, ...which means that HIS LIFE is without beginning, without end, and UNINTERUPPTED... CONTINUAL -- He IS (unchangingly -- Mal 3:6) the LIVING GOD -- 1 Tim 4:10

When JESUS (the Son of MAN) died... the WORD ...did NOT DIE for it is the LIVING WORD, and the UNCHANGING WORD -- James 1:17 -- Heb 13:8 = The WORD = "YHVH SAVES"

JESUS the MAN did not SAVE anyone... YHVH which dwelt in Him did the "saving". THAT is what I am trying to tell you bro!

The MAN JESUS, died on the cross... a PERFECT and SIN-LESS sacrifice for those who HAVE SINNED.

It (YHVH) withdrew from the MAN in which it dwelt -- Mark 15:34 -- Col 2:9


You cant refute that with Gods Word; only with your own mind:

I have already refuted your belief USING the Scriptures to do so... YOU have offered your "opinion", nothing else.

You stated you are seeking to "learn"... I contest that statement.


I see you ran a little scared with this one; people do that when they really have no truth; they start picking apart the name; wont work; stay blessed: what will you say next; there is no j in the hebrew: Childs play; i think ive said enough: Humble me Lord; Blessings brother

FIRST --- More of YOUR WORDS, ...NONE... of His. I have used the WORD in each reply to you, you have not. You therefore stand on YOUR words, and I stand upon HIS... You are welcome to cling to myths if you choose. Does not matter to me.

SECOND --- I did not at all, "pick apart the name"... I have shown the PRAISE within it, by its DEFINITION! ...You have not even bothered to research the meaning of the name JESUS, as you propose above >>> "IF" it means YHVH saves... :doh:

THIRD --- I have journeyed for 35 years with GOD, most of it within the ORTHODOX system of the Christian CHURCH (20 yrs w/Salvation Army, and 5 yrs w/7th Day Adventists in MINISTRY capcities)...

And instead of just accepting their doctrines and teachings, I did my own personal research of the WORD. And btw... I have faced DEATH twice in my life... and presently am battling CANCER, so dont preach to me about being "scared"... I am AT PEACE... and the message I bring is PEACE. The SALVATION of ALL MEN! Which is the BEST possible news.

That you are admittedly immersed in your FEAR of the "FLAMES of the JUDGMENT of GOD"... and displays your own lack of PEACE...

FOURTH --- Actually I gave you both the GREEK and HEBREW words which in English are translated JESUS -- (IESOUS #G2424 =greek / YeHoVsHuwa #H3091 = Hebrew)...

In NEITHER of these, did I maintain that there is a "J" in either. ^_^


some real characters in here; and you think your wise; but me; im just a young kid that overcame these streets; no education; so sorry if i dont use strongs; not that i cant; but God gets the glory for using foolish things to confound those that profess to be wise in their own selves
Please... Listen to your own words... are you not doing this bro? You have formulated common ORTHODOX beliefs, and REFUSE to look any further? Are you not "professing to be wise in your own self"? ^_^

I have not stated or claimed, that "I think I am wise"...

I am a CONFESSED student of the WORD, with MUCH to learn (as it is INFINITE in KNOWLEDGE and WISDOM)...

But I do not abstain from the foolishness of just accepting what others say, and then CALL those things "my beliefs"... I bother to RESEARCH what others claim, and question them, just as I have done with ...YOU!

FIRST --- It is your choice to avoid using tools (such as STRONGS) which could help you, but instead you choose to HINDER any real "research".

You are welcome to try to loosen bolts with your fingers (using your own opinion), ...I, rather choose to use a wrench (using such as strongs, dictionaries, etc.). ^_^

SECOND --- As far as "CONFOUNDING" --- How do you find out meanings to words FTM? Do you just HOPE they mean what you "think" they do? Or do you... hypocritically (and secretly) USE a DICTIONARY? ^_^

THIRD --- That you are YOUNG and unmoveable, only shows that pride is that which keeps stagnation of learning from you. You say you are trying to learn, yet, you abstain from using tools which shall help in gaining further and/or DEEPER knowledge.


FOURTH --- You claim to be without education and "overcame the streets"... well, ...I graduated from High school. thats it!

And did that @ Olympic & Soto, in the HEART of EAST LOS ANGELES, so please don't preach to me about "the streets"... as if you have overcome something that I have not. ^_^


Hey -- your choice, ...do whatever you like, ...it really doesnt matter to me. ;)


Bless you

Now you "bless me"? ^_^ ...I thought I was the "BAD GUY"? :sorry:


pEACE... :groupray:


...willieH ;)
 
Upvote 0

Truth_Warrior

Newbie
Aug 12, 2011
271
14
NW Florida
✟23,011.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
I hope it was not me who got this thread so off track.

I was enjoying the dialogue of the debate about hell but it appears the thread is so far off track that the subject is gone.

I started another thread about who Jesus is in hopes of getting this thread on track but that did not work.

Thread should be called"lets talk about everything but hell"

I am thankful for the fact that at least my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ is being spoke about...........Amen to that.
 
Upvote 0

createdtoworship

In the grip of grace
Mar 13, 2004
18,941
1,758
West Coast USA
✟55,673.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Jesus Christ Is God Incarnate

Quoting from Isaiah 7:14, Matthew 1:23 says, "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us." According to both of these verses, Jesus was "God with us" when He walked upon this earth. He wasn't merely "God's chosen one with us" or "God's Son with us." As I Timothy 3:16 states, "God was manifest in the flesh." John 1:14 tells us that "the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us..." In Zechariah 12:10, GOD said that HE (God) would be "pierced" by sinners, and Revelation 1:7 states that Jesus Christ Himself fulfilled this prophecy! Friend, the Bible presents Jesus Christ as much more than a great prophet and teacher. God's word presents Jesus Christ as God incarnate.

Jesus Christ Is Eternal


In John 10:28, Jesus said, "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand." If Jesus Christ isn't eternal, then how does He have the power to give "eternal life"?

Micah 5:2 states that Jesus Christ is "from everlasting", which is exactly what Psalm 93:2 and Isaiah 63:16 say about God!

In John 8:58, Jesus said to the Pharisees, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am." The term "I am" is the exact term that God used in Exodus 3:14 in reference to Himself! Jesus professed to be the eternal God of the Bible.

Jesus Christ Has Divine Names

Check these references for yourself. In Matthew 22:42-45, Jesus claims to be the "Lord" of Psalm 110:1. He allows Thomas to address Him as "My Lord and my God" in John 20:28.

He is the "everlasting Father" and "The mighty God" of Isaiah 9:6.

According to His own words in John 10:11-14, He is the "shepherd" of Psalm 23:1, Psalm 80:1, and Ezekiel 34:12.

God is the "saviour" in Isaiah 43:3, 43:11, 45:15, 45:21, Hosea 13:4, Luke 1:47, and I Timothy 4:10, yet this same title is given to Jesus Christ in Luke 2:11, Philippians 3:20, II Timothy 1:10, and II Peter 2:20.

God is the "Rock" of Deuteronomy 32:4, 32:15, 32:18, 32:30-31, I Samuel 2:2, and Psalm 18:31, yet this title is given to the Lord Jesus Christ in I Corinthians 10:1-4, I Peter 2:7-8, and Romans 9:33.

God is "light" in Psalm 27:1 and Micah 7:8, and then Jesus is "light" in John 1:4-9 and in John 8:12.

The Scriptures are clear: Jesus Christ is the God of the Old Testament.

Jesus Claimed Equality with God

Jesus says in John 14:9, "...he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?" Is the Father someone other than Jesus Christ? No, not according to Jesus Christ.

In John 10:30, Jesus says, "I and my Father are one." Isn't that clear enough?

Philippians 2:6 says that Jesus was in the "form of God", and that he thought it not robbery to be "equal with God"!

The Jesus Christ of the New Testament claimed to be "one" with God and "equal" with God.

"I and the Father are one." 31The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. 32Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" 33The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God," (John 10:30-33)

What was it that Jesus had said or done that caused the Jews to say that He was claiming to be God? Was it "I and the Father are one"? If so, why would that cause the Jews to want to kill Jesus? Perhaps it was something else. Maybe it was something Jesus said elsewhere that made them so angry.

There are only two places in John where the Jews wanted to kill Jesus with stones. Both of these occur after Jesus spoke and made a claim about Himself. The first was in John 8:58-59 and the second was in John 10:30-33. Here is the context of both verses:

John 8:56-59 "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad." 57The Jews therefore said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?" 58Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am." 59Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself, and went out of the temple."
John 10:27-36, "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28and I give eternal life to them, and they shall never perish; and no one shall snatch them out of My hand. 29"My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30"I and the Father are one." 31The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. 32Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" 33The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God."
above section from http://carm.org/religious-movements/jehovahs-witnesses/john-1030-33-what-made-jews-want-kill-jesus

Jesus Christ is Omnipresent

Only God has the ability to be everywhere at once, yet Jesus Christ claims this ability.

In Matthew 18:20, He says, "For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them." How could this be possible if Jesus were not Deity?

The same is true in Matthew 28:20 where Jesus says, "...lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen." How could He be with each individual Christian always and be in Heaven at the same time? He is God, for only God has such attributes!

Jesus Christ Is Omnipotent

That is, He is all powerful. He has all power.

Revelation 19:6 states, "...the Lord God omnipotent reigneth." Then I Timothy 6:15 says that Jesus Christ Himself is "...the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;" If Jesus is the ONLY Potentate, then He must be the One of Revelation 19:6, God Almighty!

Also see Colossians 2:9-10, Revelation 2:26, and Matthew 28:18.

Jesus Christ Is Omniscient

To be omniscient is to have all knowledge, unlike normal men. The Bible declares that Jesus was indeed omniscient.

Unlike normal men, Jesus Christ had knowledge of specific details about His own death. In Matthew 16:21, Jesus said that He would go to Jerusalem, suffer many things at the hands of the scribes and the elders, be killed, and then be resurrected the third day. He repeats this prophecy in Matthew 20:19.

Matthew 17:27 offers the account of Jesus knowing of a certain coin in a fish's mouth before the fish is caught!

He knew specific details about a woman's life whom He had never met (John 4:16-19). He also had all knowledge about Nathaniel in John 1:47-49.

Friend, Jesus Christ is Deity because He is omniscient.

Jesus Christ Has Creative Powers

John 1:1-3 says, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made." The "Word" is the Lord Jesus Christ (John 1:14; I John 1:1-3; 5:7), and John 1:3 says that all things were made by Him!

Colossians 1:16 says, "...by him were all things created..." Consider Hebrews 1:1-3: "God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;" You see, by Jesus Christ the worlds were made, and by Jesus Christ all things are upheld. He has the power to create and sustain the universe.

Jesus Christ Has Power Over the Elements of Nature

In Matthew 14:25, Jesus literally walks upon the sea, and in Luke 8:24, He rebukes the wind and it obeys Him. How could He perform such tasks if He weren't God? It must be understood that Jesus didn't pray for God to calm the sea; He calmed the sea Himself.

Jesus Christ Received Worship

If we're wrong in teaching that the Lord Jesus Christ is God, then He must have been wrong in allowing people to worship him. Jesus Himself said, "Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve." (Mat. 4:10) Why would He say this at the beginning of His ministry and then spend His ministry allowing people to worship HIM?

In Acts 10:25-26, and in Revelation 19:10, worship of anyone other than God Himself is forbidden, yet Jesus willingly received worship throughout His public ministry (John 20:28; Mat. 8:2; 9:18; 15:25; 28:9; John 9:38). If He isn't Deity, then why didn't He correct those who worshipped Him?

Jesus Christ Forgave Sins

"And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more." (Jer. 31:34) According to these words, it is GOD Who has the power and right to forgive sins. However, the New Testament says that Jesus Christ has this power.

Please notice Mark 2:5-11: "When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee. But there were certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts, Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only? And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, Why reason ye these things in your hearts? Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk? But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,) I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy bed, and go thy way into thine house."

Jesus Christ is God, because only God can forgive sins. It's true that He took on the form of a man for thirty-three years on this earth, but He was still God. He was God manifest in the flesh (I Tim. 3:16).

Jesus Christ Had Power Over His Own Life and Death


How many people do you know who have the ability to lay down their own life and then take it up again? Jesus had this power.

Consider John 10:17-18: "Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father."

Jesus had the power over His own life and death! When He died, He willingly gave up His own spirit (Luke 23:46).

According to His own words in Revelation 1:18, Jesus Christ has "the keys of hell and of death." How could He possibly have such power if He were not God?
from link The Deity of Jesus Christ

Revelation 1:8 “I am the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come , the Almighty.”

Who is the Alpha and Omega in verse 8? Only God can be the Almighty right?

Revelation 1:11 “Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last”

Who is Alpha and Omega in verse 11?
Note that the First and the Last is the same person as the Alpha and Omega


Revelation 17b-18 “Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for ever.”

When did God die?


\
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

WillieH

Newbie
Mar 1, 2006
637
11
Spokane, WA
✟838.00
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Married
willieH: Hi FTM... :wave:

Yuo quoted my words:

willieH said:
JESUS CHRIST was a MAN -- 1 Tim 2:5 -- His GENEOLOGY is OF MEN -- Matt 1:1-16 -- Luke 3:23-38 -- and He HAS a GOD -- Eph 1:3 -- Mark 15:34


Let me help you out a little with this; I pray that you will receive:

I think it is YOU which needs help, bro. ;) Just curious, How long have you studied? I have been "at it" for 35 years... are you even that old? ^_^

FIRST

Ephesians 1:3
King James Version (KJV)
3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

YES: The Father is the Head of the Son: That what this means; This DOES not say the SON isn’t GOD: That’s what you say:
This says the Father has put all things in the SON; are you saying the Father is empty; or is the SON GOD IN THE FATHER
Being that WE are blessed IN CHRIST
SO I will show you all that your words condemn you; you are allowing the enemy to exclude you from God in your words; rather you see it or not; its there; I will show you; HEAR:

Lighten up, oh self-righteous one. ^_^ ...YOU will show ME?

YOU who do not reeearch or use the tools of study? YOU who rarely quote Scripture and NEVER answer questions? Please... ^_^


FIRST --- If the FATHER is the HEAD of the Son, then the SON is lesser than the Father, eh? Like a GENERAL is the head of a CAPTAIN?


SECOND --- ALL that the FATHER "IS", is His WORD... the Son is subject to the SOURCE of that WORD -- Isaiah 55:11

Do YOUR words come out of you of their own accord? Or are they SUBJECT to YOU... and are manifest as YOU ORDER THEM to be spoken? :confused:


THIRD --- The FATHER is no more "empty" than are YOU as you INVEST yourself, your wisdoms, experiences and LOVE, in YOUR CHILDREN... (have you had this experience? If not, then you are EMPTY of it, and cannot know.) Your "empty" comment is just foolish.



FOURTH --- I have been a dedicated Christian for over 35 years. continually studying and seeking GOD... It is not your right to JUDGE me, nor DEDUCE me (condemning my words), as the only MEASURE of me you have, is your own OBSERVATIONS which are quite OBVIOUSLY VERY short of Scriptural knowledge and SPIRITUAL understanding...


HEAR THIS ALSO

NO thanks, ...I only have ears for the TRUTH, which is not found in your words bro... I was subjected FAR TOO LONG to the blasphemies of ORTHODOXY (for 25 years)... not at all interested in ANY of the UNBIBLICAL, ORTHODOX... fallacies.

Mark 15:34
King James Version (KJV)
34And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

LOOK HOW EITHER
WICKED OR CONFUSED YOU ARE
ONE OR THE OTHER; or both
But your using an example that shows the only time in eternity when the Son was separated from the Father:


CHRIST clearly addressed YHVH as HIS GOD... and in doing so CONFESSED that He DID NOT KNOW WHY YHVH was withdrawing (having no foreknowledge, which GOD UNCHANGINGLY has)

Only PURPOSED IGNORANCE shall fail to recognize these things.

FIRST --- CHRIST died... GOD is EVERLASTING... Whose LIFE is PERPETUAL, without INTERUPTION... and there is NOTHING in Scripture which notes that the Son was EVER separated from the Father. Just YOUR ADDITION to it. suggests this.

The FLESH of CHRIST (the MAN), died (and was NOT "everlasting")... the WORD which dwelt in that FLESH -- Col 2:9 -- is EVERLASTING... and said WORD is emergent of its SOURCE, the Father, ...YHVH God -- Isaiah 43:11 -- who is the ONLY SAVIOR, according to HIM and HIS WORD!

NOT according to YOU and your "word"...



SECOND --- There is NO witness in Scripture that GOD "allowed" His Son to DIE -- To your own coming SHAME, ...this is yet ANOTHER of your OWN ADDITIONS to Scripture which are CONDEMNED by it -- Deut 4:2 -- Prov 30:6 -- Rev 22:18

YHVH SENT Him to DIE... which is the means of REDEMPTION for ALL men!

It is YOU which bends the WORD to suit yourself, as you note WITHOUT SCRIPTURAL SUPPORT, where it notes that this is the "only time in eternity the Son was separated from the Father"


Book, Chapter and Verse, where this is stated? You base your entire theology on ASSUMPTION, instead of comparing the WITNESS of the WORD in several places...

Deducing me as "CONFUSED or WICKED", by employing as the measure of me, ...your own observations... ^_^

I have shown you ample Scripture which negates your thinking, and you have falsely proposed that you are here to LEARN... for you are (in truth) here TO "SHOW" ME the way... ^_^ Please...

You are hardly one qualified to do so... not even knowing the meaning of the name IESOUS ...(JESUS)

I will say that you are quite GOOD at IGNORING Scripture though!

I am done with you FTM... I have spent enough time giving you insights which you are unwilling to consider... so I shall depart (at least from discussing with you)... wishing you more than you have obviously gained from the WORD to this point... but doubting you shall find that "gain"... as you think yourself a "teacher" not a "learning student"...

You are welcome to your theology, which is quite the common one... just one of the MANY which come in the name of JESUS -- Matt 7:22-23

I am battling CANCER, and my time must be spent with those who in earnest, discuss and consider, instead of just blatantly IGNORE... moving on, ...dust shaken... ;)


PEACE be unto you... :groupray: ...praying for EARS and personal diligence to enter your experience, that you might actually gain your own beliefs through study and experience with GOD, rather than just swallowing the tainted theologies of Orthodoxy...


...willieH :hug:
 
Upvote 0

createdtoworship

In the grip of grace
Mar 13, 2004
18,941
1,758
West Coast USA
✟55,673.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I am done with you FTM... I have spent enough time giving you insights which you are unwilling to consider... so I shall depart (at least from discussing with you)... wishing you more than you have obviously gained from the WORD to this point... but doubting you shall find that "gain"... as you think yourself a "teacher" not a "learning student"...

Don't worry FTM, willie said the same thing to me. I guess He just wants to debate with Himself.

and willie: cancer is no excuse to lie to yourself regarding the truth about the deity of Jesus. See my last post (please)
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

WillieH

Newbie
Mar 1, 2006
637
11
Spokane, WA
✟838.00
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Married
and willie: cancer is no excuse to lie to yourself regarding the truth about the deity of Jesus. See my last post (please)

More trolling... who wants to see your last boring post, which is full of cut & paste... and NO personal research.

I have not used CANCER as an excuse concerning my belief as to who JESUS is... On the contrary, ...I have proven who He is... you and FTM... just purposely IGNORE that proof. Your prob.

CANCER is a serious and PAINFUL matter... so much for your "chrisitian" LOVE and compassion for a brother... what goes around comes around... and this post shall REAP what it has SOWN...

I do not have time to spend continually providing SCRIPTURAL PROOF for you and your comrade (ftm) to IGNORE.

You only show who and what you are by this post.

btw... Where is the "trinity" mentioned in the "Latin bible"... ^_^

Let's face it gradyll... your "latin bible - trinity" claim, is nothing but a PHONY charade...

Later... Mr. Christian... :confused:

Peace... :groupray:


...willieH :hug:
 
Upvote 0

WillieH

Newbie
Mar 1, 2006
637
11
Spokane, WA
✟838.00
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Married
Jesus Christ Is God Incarnate

Quoting from Isaiah 7:14, Matthew 1:23 says, "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us." According to both of these verses, Jesus was "God with us" when He walked upon this earth. He wasn't merely "God's chosen one with us" or "God's Son with us." As I Timothy 3:16 states, "God was manifest in the flesh." John 1:14 tells us that "the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us..." In Zechariah 12:10, GOD said that HE (God) would be "pierced" by sinners, and Revelation 1:7 states that Jesus Christ Himself fulfilled this prophecy! Friend, the Bible presents Jesus Christ as much more than a great prophet and teacher. God's word presents Jesus Christ as God incarnate.

Jesus Christ Is Eternal

In John 10:28, Jesus said, "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand." If Jesus Christ isn't eternal, then how does He have the power to give "eternal life"?

Micah 5:2 states that Jesus Christ is "from everlasting", which is exactly what Psalm 93:2 and Isaiah 63:16 say about God!

In John 8:58, Jesus said to the Pharisees, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am." The term "I am" is the exact term that God used in Exodus 3:14 in reference to Himself! Jesus professed to be the eternal God of the Bible.

Jesus Christ Has Divine Names

Check these references for yourself. In Matthew 22:42-45, Jesus claims to be the "Lord" of Psalm 110:1. He allows Thomas to address Him as "My Lord and my God" in John 20:28.

He is the "everlasting Father" and "The mighty God" of Isaiah 9:6.

According to His own words in John 10:11-14, He is the "shepherd" of Psalm 23:1, Psalm 80:1, and Ezekiel 34:12.

God is the "saviour" in Isaiah 43:3, 43:11, 45:15, 45:21, Hosea 13:4, Luke 1:47, and I Timothy 4:10, yet this same title is given to Jesus Christ in Luke 2:11, Philippians 3:20, II Timothy 1:10, and II Peter 2:20.

God is the "Rock" of Deuteronomy 32:4, 32:15, 32:18, 32:30-31, I Samuel 2:2, and Psalm 18:31, yet this title is given to the Lord Jesus Christ in I Corinthians 10:1-4, I Peter 2:7-8, and Romans 9:33.

God is "light" in Psalm 27:1 and Micah 7:8, and then Jesus is "light" in John 1:4-9 and in John 8:12.

The Scriptures are clear: Jesus Christ is the God of the Old Testament.

Jesus Claimed Equality with God

Jesus says in John 14:9, "...he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?" Is the Father someone other than Jesus Christ? No, not according to Jesus Christ.

In John 10:30, Jesus says, "I and my Father are one." Isn't that clear enough?

Philippians 2:6 says that Jesus was in the "form of God", and that he thought it not robbery to be "equal with God"!

The Jesus Christ of the New Testament claimed to be "one" with God and "equal" with God.

"I and the Father are one." 31The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. 32Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" 33The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God," (John 10:30-33)

What was it that Jesus had said or done that caused the Jews to say that He was claiming to be God? Was it "I and the Father are one"? If so, why would that cause the Jews to want to kill Jesus? Perhaps it was something else. Maybe it was something Jesus said elsewhere that made them so angry.

There are only two places in John where the Jews wanted to kill Jesus with stones. Both of these occur after Jesus spoke and made a claim about Himself. The first was in John 8:58-59 and the second was in John 10:30-33. Here is the context of both verses:

John 8:56-59 "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad." 57The Jews therefore said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?" 58Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am." 59Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself, and went out of the temple."
John 10:27-36, "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28and I give eternal life to them, and they shall never perish; and no one shall snatch them out of My hand. 29"My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30"I and the Father are one." 31The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. 32Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" 33The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God."
above section from John 10:30-33, What made the Jews want to kill Jesus? | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry

Jesus Christ is Omnipresent

Only God has the ability to be everywhere at once, yet Jesus Christ claims this ability.

In Matthew 18:20, He says, "For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them." How could this be possible if Jesus were not Deity?

The same is true in Matthew 28:20 where Jesus says, "...lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen." How could He be with each individual Christian always and be in Heaven at the same time? He is God, for only God has such attributes!

Jesus Christ Is Omnipotent

That is, He is all powerful. He has all power.

Revelation 19:6 states, "...the Lord God omnipotent reigneth." Then I Timothy 6:15 says that Jesus Christ Himself is "...the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;" If Jesus is the ONLY Potentate, then He must be the One of Revelation 19:6, God Almighty!

Also see Colossians 2:9-10, Revelation 2:26, and Matthew 28:18.

Jesus Christ Is Omniscient

To be omniscient is to have all knowledge, unlike normal men. The Bible declares that Jesus was indeed omniscient.

Unlike normal men, Jesus Christ had knowledge of specific details about His own death. In Matthew 16:21, Jesus said that He would go to Jerusalem, suffer many things at the hands of the scribes and the elders, be killed, and then be resurrected the third day. He repeats this prophecy in Matthew 20:19.

Matthew 17:27 offers the account of Jesus knowing of a certain coin in a fish's mouth before the fish is caught!

He knew specific details about a woman's life whom He had never met (John 4:16-19). He also had all knowledge about Nathaniel in John 1:47-49.

Friend, Jesus Christ is Deity because He is omniscient.

Jesus Christ Has Creative Powers

John 1:1-3 says, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made." The "Word" is the Lord Jesus Christ (John 1:14; I John 1:1-3; 5:7), and John 1:3 says that all things were made by Him!

Colossians 1:16 says, "...by him were all things created..." Consider Hebrews 1:1-3: "God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;" You see, by Jesus Christ the worlds were made, and by Jesus Christ all things are upheld. He has the power to create and sustain the universe.

Jesus Christ Has Power Over the Elements of Nature

In Matthew 14:25, Jesus literally walks upon the sea, and in Luke 8:24, He rebukes the wind and it obeys Him. How could He perform such tasks if He weren't God? It must be understood that Jesus didn't pray for God to calm the sea; He calmed the sea Himself.

Jesus Christ Received Worship

If we're wrong in teaching that the Lord Jesus Christ is God, then He must have been wrong in allowing people to worship him. Jesus Himself said, "Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve." (Mat. 4:10) Why would He say this at the beginning of His ministry and then spend His ministry allowing people to worship HIM?

In Acts 10:25-26, and in Revelation 19:10, worship of anyone other than God Himself is forbidden, yet Jesus willingly received worship throughout His public ministry (John 20:28; Mat. 8:2; 9:18; 15:25; 28:9; John 9:38). If He isn't Deity, then why didn't He correct those who worshipped Him?

Jesus Christ Forgave Sins

"And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more." (Jer. 31:34) According to these words, it is GOD Who has the power and right to forgive sins. However, the New Testament says that Jesus Christ has this power.

Please notice Mark 2:5-11: "When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee. But there were certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts, Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only? And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, Why reason ye these things in your hearts? Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk? But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,) I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy bed, and go thy way into thine house."

Jesus Christ is God, because only God can forgive sins. It's true that He took on the form of a man for thirty-three years on this earth, but He was still God. He was God manifest in the flesh (I Tim. 3:16).

Jesus Christ Had Power Over His Own Life and Death

How many people do you know who have the ability to lay down their own life and then take it up again? Jesus had this power.

Consider John 10:17-18: "Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father."

Jesus had the power over His own life and death! When He died, He willingly gave up His own spirit (Luke 23:46).

According to His own words in Revelation 1:18, Jesus Christ has "the keys of hell and of death." How could He possibly have such power if He were not God?
from link The Deity of Jesus Christ

Revelation 1:8 “I am the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come , the Almighty.”

Who is the Alpha and Omega in verse 8? Only God can be the Almighty right?

Revelation 1:11 “Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last”

Who is Alpha and Omega in verse 11?
Note that the First and the Last is the same person as the Alpha and Omega

Revelation 17b-18 “Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for ever.”

When did God die?

CUT & PASTE... anyone can do it. ^_^ ...worthless and boring.

Peace... :groupray:

...willieH :hug:
 
Upvote 0

createdtoworship

In the grip of grace
Mar 13, 2004
18,941
1,758
West Coast USA
✟55,673.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I have not used CANCER as an excuse concerning my belief as to who JESUS is... On the contrary, ...I have proven who He is... you and FTM... just purposely IGNORE that proof. Your prob.



I do not have time to spend continually providing SCRIPTURAL PROOF for you and your comrade (ftm) to IGNORE.




here is a post regarding the nature of Jesus that I personally looked up...

Revelation 1:8 “I am the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come , the Almighty.”

Who is the Alpha and Omega in verse 8? Only God can be the Almighty right?

Revelation 1:11 “Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last”

Who is Alpha and Omega in verse 11? Still God right?....
Note that the First and the Last is the same person as the Alpha and Omega


Revelation 17b-18 “Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for ever.”

When did God die?



More trolling... who wants to see your last boring post, which is full of cut & paste... and NO personal research.

I would say the same thing if I didn't have the answer.

CANCER is a serious and PAINFUL matter... so much for your "chrisitian" LOVE and compassion for a brother... what goes around comes around... and this post shall REAP what it has SOWN...

cancer is a hard thing to go through, but I feel you are using it as an excuse to be negligent regarding the scriptures. Maybe you should pray about that.

(my mom recently died of cancer so I know your pain)

You only show who and what you are by this post.
I sense a lot of bitterness in your voice....maybe you should pray about that too.

btw... Where is the "trinity" mentioned in the "Latin bible"... ^_^

Let's face it gradyll... your "latin bible - trinity" claim, is nothing but a PHONY charade...

I already apologized for that post and you keep bringing it up, are you not willing to forgive? Maybe you should pray about that too. Note: trinity is not in the Bible but "three in one" is in that latest catholic edition 1999 - The Sacred Bible (newest translation of the Catholic Church) includes the "three in one"
1 John - Latin English Study Bible

From Post 139

ALL SONS of GOD, were with the Father BEFORE THE WORLD WAS -- Job 38:7 -- Luke 15:11:-32

btw you never responded to my post about this comment

Post 170
 
Upvote 0

Truth_Warrior

Newbie
Aug 12, 2011
271
14
NW Florida
✟23,011.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
I wish to ask again that we refrain getting this thread off topic

PLEASE!!!!!!

I tried to ask once already and some wish to disregard the rules

READ THE RULES!!!!!

from the rules.....................
"Respect and become familiar with each forum's Statement of Purpose. Start threads that are relevant to that forum's stated purpose; submit replies that are relevant to the topic of discussion. Off Topic posts will be moved or removed".

If anyone should follow rules, it is a Christian.

I posted a few posts that were off topic (was responding to an off topic issue..sorry)and have apologized wayyyyyyy back so as to get the thread on topic.

I am amazed.

If you have a topic you wish to discuss that is off topic...start a thread......kinda simple.


Please!!!!!!

Everyone keeps saying they are Christians but yet feel rules apply to everyone else?

Some witness for some unbeliever in search of truth that should wander in and see.

I Love the zeal and commitment many show and respect EVERYONES views and pray daily for EVERY Christian EVERYWHERE and in that prayer I pray we can all be better witnesses for our Lord Jesus Christ.

God Bless you in the name above all others,Jesus Christ the risen Saviour.
 
Upvote 0

createdtoworship

In the grip of grace
Mar 13, 2004
18,941
1,758
West Coast USA
✟55,673.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I wish to ask again that we refrain getting this thread off topic

PLEASE!!!!!!

I tried to ask once already and some wish to disregard the rules

READ THE RULES!!!!!

from the rules.....................
"Respect and become familiar with each forum's Statement of Purpose. Start threads that are relevant to that forum's stated purpose; submit replies that are relevant to the topic of discussion. Off Topic posts will be moved or removed".

If anyone should follow rules, it is a Christian.

I posted a few posts that were off topic (was responding to an off topic issue..sorry)and have apologized wayyyyyyy back so as to get the thread on topic.

I am amazed.

If you have a topic you wish to discuss that is off topic...start a thread......kinda simple.


Please!!!!!!

Everyone keeps saying they are Christians but yet feel rules apply to everyone else?

Some witness for some unbeliever in search of truth that should wander in and see.

I Love the zeal and commitment many show and respect EVERYONES views and pray daily for EVERY Christian EVERYWHERE and in that prayer I pray we can all be better witnesses for our Lord Jesus Christ.

God Bless you in the name above all others,Jesus Christ the risen Saviour.

I have posted this before but no one wants to answer with a rebuttal....RE:Hell

the beast and the false prophet are in hell a thousand years in the Revelation. They will be tossed in before the millennium and abide through the end of the 1000 years when Satan is thrown in.

Revelation 19:20
And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Revelation 20:2-3
And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Revelation 20:7-8a
And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth

AFTER 1000 YEARS Satan was loosed and deceived the nations.....then

Revelation 20:10
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

So the Beast and the False prophet were in the Lake of Fire for 1000 years without annihilating, that's interesting.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Truth_Warrior

Newbie
Aug 12, 2011
271
14
NW Florida
✟23,011.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
I have posted this before but no one wants to answer with a rebuttal....RE:Hell

the beast and the false prophet are in hell a thousand years in the Revelation. They will be tossed in before the millennium and abide through the end of the 1000 years when Satan is thrown in.

Revelation 19:20
And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Revelation 20:2-3
And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Revelation 20:7-8a
And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth

AFTER 1000 YEARS Satan was loosed and deceived the nations.....then

Revelation 20:10
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

So the Beast and the False prophet were in the Lake of Fire for 1000 years without annihilating, that's interesting.
Ya know............just maybe the evil dude is so evil that it takes a bit more time in the oven.

A chicken in the oven takes about an hour but throwthat turkey in and you gotta wait a bit longer.


Kinda seems like a silly analogy but it just hit me so I hit the keys .


I think truly though that the Devil and the Beast are a whole different thing when you put them up against Grandma Maybell who just simply didn't believe and should fry forever,or the Indian born raised and died on the plains before we got to America that never had the opportunity to recieve Christ ,don't you?


No verse in the Bible says that the “soul” or “spirit” lives on by itself. No verse says that “hell” is a place of everlasting torment in fire. These falsehoods originated with God’s archenemy, and infiltrated Christianity via mistranslation and the mixing of Greek culture and beliefs with the truths presented in the Word of God.

I know many believe that Gods Word teaches that somehow Fire is a preservative but unless You are Shadrach,Meshach ans Abednego, when something is tossed into fire will end up eternally dead.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mikecpking
Upvote 0

he-man

he-man
Oct 28, 2010
8,891
301
usa
✟105,748.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Ya know............just maybe the evil dude is so evil that it takes a bit more time in the oven.

A chicken in the oven takes about an hour but throwthat turkey in and you gotta wait a bit longer.


Kinda seems like a silly analogy but it just hit me so I hit the keys .


I think truly though that the Devil and the Beast are a whole different thing when you put them up against Grandma Maybell who just simply didn't believe and should fry forever,or the Indian born raised and died on the plains before we got to America that never had the opportunity to recieve Christ ,don't you?


No verse in the Bible says that the “soul” or “spirit” lives on by itself. No verse says that “hell” is a place of everlasting torment in fire. These falsehoods originated with God’s archenemy, and infiltrated Christianity via mistranslation and the mixing of Greek culture and beliefs with the truths presented in the Word of God.

I know many believe that Gods Word teaches that somehow Fire is a preservative but unless You are Shadrach,Meshach ans Abednego, when something is tossed into fire will end up eternally dead.
:amen::thumbsup::clap:
 
Upvote 0

Truth_Warrior

Newbie
Aug 12, 2011
271
14
NW Florida
✟23,011.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
The late Sidney Hatch well expressed how twisted is the idea of a just God forever tormenting by fire those who refused to believe in Him:
“A civilized society looks with horror upon the abuse and torture of children or adults. Even where capitalpunishment is practiced, the aim is to implement it as mercifully as possible. Are we to believe then that a holy God—our heavenly Father—is less just than the courts of men? Of course not.”

And the late Swedish Lutheran Bishop John Persone wrote:
“For me it is inexplainable how a person who holds the orthodox view [of eternal torment] can at any time have a glad moment in this life. He is constantly mingling with people whose final destiny will be to be tormented eternally without end…To me it is even more inexplainable that such an ‘orthodox’ person can expect even a happy moment in eternity, when he knows that contemporaneously with his blessed estate continues the endless torment and agony of innumerable millions of the accursed. Can he, if he loves his neighbors as himself, yes, even if he has just a little bit of human love and is not solely a selfish wretch, have even a single happy moment?”


Well said, wouldn’t you agree?
 
Upvote 0

createdtoworship

In the grip of grace
Mar 13, 2004
18,941
1,758
West Coast USA
✟55,673.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Ya know............just maybe the evil dude is so evil that it takes a bit more time in the oven.

A chicken in the oven takes about an hour but throwthat turkey in and you gotta wait a bit longer.


Kinda seems like a silly analogy but it just hit me so I hit the keys .


I think truly though that the Devil and the Beast are a whole different thing when you put them up against Grandma Maybell who just simply didn't believe and should fry forever,or the Indian born raised and died on the plains before we got to America that never had the opportunity to recieve Christ ,don't you?


No verse in the Bible says that the “soul” or “spirit” lives on by itself. No verse says that “hell” is a place of everlasting torment in fire. These falsehoods originated with God’s archenemy, and infiltrated Christianity via mistranslation and the mixing of Greek culture and beliefs with the truths presented in the Word of God.

I know many believe that Gods Word teaches that somehow Fire is a preservative but unless You are Shadrach,Meshach ans Abednego, when something is tossed into fire will end up eternally dead.

Verses please?
 
Upvote 0

Truth_Warrior

Newbie
Aug 12, 2011
271
14
NW Florida
✟23,011.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Verses please?
Now the point is that the verses you want me to quote do not exist.

The word “hell” is not found anywhere in the original text of Scripture.

In the King James Version, you will find it as the translation of the Greek words hades and gehenna, but most modern translations recognize that “hell” is an incorrect translation for hades, and more correctly render it as “grave.”

Even modern translations, however, do sometimes mistakenly translate the Greek word gehenna as “hell.”
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.