Let's Talk About Hell (4)

[WillieH]

even pluto exists as a cartoon character which happens to be "Mickey Mouses" dog.

do you not believe in the existence of this character or Mickey mouses cartoon character?

Here is a picture for you

if you still don't believe, here is an original drawing of mickey mouse by it's creator

surely drawings of mickey mouse exist willie?

You contend that a planet called "PLUTO" exists in REALITY... and you cannot PROVE this.

And the PICS you have offered (as "proof") are no more "substancial" then the millions of photos of UFOS that Science rejects DAILY, ...as the PUBLIC attempts to "prove" their contention that UFO's exist!

Once again, you misrepresent...

I did not say that the "cartoon characters" PLUTO and MICKEY MOUSE do not exist... Cartoon characters were not even suggested by me...

They were and ARE part of YOUR offering, and just MORE products of your active IMAGINATION, which also believes in the IMAGINARY "being"... you call "satan"... ...whom you claim, is a TALKING SNAKE, which once was an ANGEL... or was he a DRAGON? ANGEL, DRAGON, SNAKE? Which is it HERM?

When did "satan" turn into a SNAKE, from an ANGEL (or was he a DRAGON), HERM?

In my answer to you, I contested the contention that YOU assert, that a planet called "PLUTO" actually exists, ...by jesting with you about a planet (which was IN the PIC) called MICKEY MOUSE... since you are so into "cartoon characters" as being REAL! (including the halloween "red guy with pitchfork" )

btw - HERM, ...do you have any of your OWN commentary about "satan" which PROVES (the halloween character), ..."satan" to be a BEING? Quite obviously you do NOT... as you continue to AVOID proving this contention.

Some "batchelors degree"! ...your education is an absolute FLOP, as is your ASTRONOMY and your COPIED beliefs which you call "theology" ...me bratha!

A baseless set of SHAM which YOU proposes as "STUDIED, INFORMED and educated", ...yet are unable to produce even the slightest "proof" of what you "believe"... so much for your "education"... which is as NON-EXISTENT as your "PROOF" of "satan" as a being, along with, "PROOF" of the actual, SPEED of LIGHT, the parameters of the ATOM, or the "planets - PLUTO and MICKEY MOUSE"...


PEACE...

...willieH

 

[WillieH]

Your debate is simply a clear understanding of Matthew four.

first of all this Devil is talking, do forces talk willie? (matt 4:3)

Secondly, the Devil had memorized verses of scripture. Does a force do that willie? (matt 4:5)

thirdly, Satan "took Him" twice to different places on planet earth. What force teleports people to different places willie? Answer me if you can.

Fourthly, this Being satan asks for worship. ( Matt 4:9) What force in the universe demands worship willie? Answer me if you can!

Fifthly, satan offers Jesus all the Kingdoms of the world and says that He posses them. What force can possess land willie?

Luke 4:6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.

I can answer all of these, showing your perception to (1) be LITERAL, (2) be disconnected with REALITY, and (3) to have no more "revelation" than an UNBELIEVER would derive from the reading of these...

But WHY should I? You do not answer me! Until you are willing to GIVE and not just TAKE... I shall leave your questions and your non-existent "bachelors degree" education to figure out the answers...

Where is your "bachelor's degree", HERM?

How about YOU, HERM? How are YOU tempted? Does some "talking snake" "slither" to your location (wherever that might be at any particular moment) and TALK to you? ...Thereby persuading you to "do" evil?


REMEMBER the SCRIPTURE SAYS --- CHRIST was tempted in all points ..."AS"... are WE -- Heb 4:15

So, if a "TALKING SNAKE" indeed, tempted ADAM, and then slithered up to CHRIST to tempt Him, then... YOU (remember the "AS" thing concerning TEMPTATION), must be dealing with that TALKING SNAKE as well, eh? ...Please! Can you be any more fooled than you are?


And since CHRIST called Peter "satan"... then, according to YOUR thought processes, ...the Apostle Peter was actually not a human being, but a TALKING SNAKE, eh HERM?


How ridiculous and without REASON is your thinking, when it is even SURFACELY ...analyzed!

Unfortunately, there are MANY mentally disturbed people in institutions which utilize the same type of "reasoning"... Better watch out HERM... they're comin' to get you!


PEACE be untaya ...me bratha...


...willieH

 

[Sophrosyne]

To begin with you did not ASK for an "EXPLANATION" of the use of smilies... (in an effort to escape my "invitation" to you), but now that you have, ...I am more than willing to give one

actually my post was rather obvious a question asking about the smilies, which instead of you engaging the question tried to bait me into a discussion about satan, which I am not interested in.

Actually there are 17 laughing emoticons in two posts... reason being that I find it humorous that gradyll offers some obscure celestial picture as "proof" that "PLUTO" exists, and then EXPECTS me to accept his offering.

actually if you have been paying attention there has been some heated arguments about the validity of Pluto being a planet or not and a body of top scientists took a vote on it. I find it a bit odd that they would go to all that effort and trouble if there was nothing to it. I disagree with global warming but I do think that they have some validity to some of their arguments for it, even if I don't agree with all their conclusions I don't go laughing at those who believe in it when discussing it.

Science ridicules the PHOTOS of UFO's offered by the public, on a daily basis, yet EXPECTS that the PUBLIC must "ACCEPT" their offerings (such as gradyll's photos of "PLUTO") which are EVERY BIT as VAGUE - even MORESO, than photos of UFO's... ...which UFO photos quite often include actual EARTHLY landmarks... buildings, rivers, land locations, Planes, etc...

some photos are worth ridiculing as they are obvious attempts to deceive by people wishing for there to be aliens invading us, but there are a lot of serious people who have seen UFOs and reported it and have not been ridiculed as scientists have figured out what it was (or not).

Now that I have complied with your "requirements", let us see what YOU have concerning "satan" and SCRIPTURALLY what "satan" ...IS...

Or shall you AVOID, as does gradyll? Trying to use the strawman of "14 smilies" as a deterent to actually DISCUSSING what "satan" ...IS...?

Guess we'll see - eh Sos?

PEACE...


...willieH

why bother? gradyll has done an adequate job explaining it, even if I could do better you would just ignore what I say and use it as a platform to ridicule me and post maybe 22 laughing smilies, a bunch of colorored words and try to bait me into teaching you what an intermediate level bible study student already knows.

 

[WillieH]

actually my post was rather obvious a question asking about the smilies, which instead of you engaging the question tried to bait me into a discussion about satan, which I am not interested in.

Just as I thought... nothing but excuses from you. Way to go, Sos!

actually if you have been paying attention there has been some heated arguments about the validity of Pluto being a planet or not and a body of top scientists took a vote on it. I find it a bit odd that they would go to all that effort and trouble if there was nothing to it.

There are "heated arguments" about UFO's, but Science still thinks "there is nothing to it"... You, as does your comrade HERM, fail to address what you "really believe"... FEARFUL that you might find be WRONG, instead of SEEKING CORRECTION from the WORD.

I disagree with global warming but I do think that they have some validity to some of their arguments for it, even if I don't agree with all their conclusions I don't go laughing at those who believe in it when discussing it.some photos are worth ridiculing as they are obvious attempts to deceive by people wishing for there to be aliens invading us, but there are a lot of serious people who have seen UFOs and reported it and have not been ridiculed as scientists have figured out what it was (or not).

Show ONE "scientifc SOURCE"... that SUPPORTS the existence of UFO's.

As far as smilies go... ATHEISTS have better sense of humor, than do most that claim to be "come in the name"... STIFF-NECKED, RELIGIOUS, and unwilling to accept challenge of your TRADITION... CEMENTED in that TRADITION, unable to further LEARN...

Which "tradition" is EASILY shown to be ILLOGICAL, UNLOVING, VENGENT, GRACE-LESS and FORK TONGUED... and which messengers OF IT, are MANY, and same SHALL be REJECTED of CHRIST at His appearing -- Matt 7:22-23

why bother? gradyll has done an adequate job explaining it, even if I could do better you would just ignore what I say and use it as a platform to ridicule me and post maybe 22 laughing smilies, a bunch of colorored words and try to bait me into teaching you what an intermediate level bible study student already knows.

No one is ridiculing you... You easily accomplish that YOURSELF, with your unwillingness to STAND for what you BELIEVE...

FAILING to study to show yourself approved... swallowing everything that TRADITIONALISTS feed you, without QUESTIONING the ILLOGICAL positioning of their teachings... Naming the EFFORT of the SAVIOR and His FATHER YHVH as a FAILIURE, naming them as unable to "fulfill" their DESIRE and INTENT for mankind...

Posing MANKIND as that which demotes the DESIRE and INTENT of God, with your own OVERESTIMATED selfishness as having the POWER to make that demotion of DIVINE Desire and Intent -- 2 Pet 3:9 -- destined for the GEHENNA SHAME with which you condemn others taking that designation and EXALTING yourSELF above them, THREATING THEM with VENGENCE instead of DELIVERING the LOVE of YHVH to them.

Instead to your coming chagrin, THEY shall watch YOU immeresed in your the SHAME of your discontent, and TAINTED false witness.

Concerning IGNORANCE, ...HERM, on a DAILY basis, ...ignores MANY points made to him, ...as do YOU herein travel the same EXCUSE ridden pathway... which, displayed by this response, that YOU are not "UP to the TASK", of witnessing TRUTH... simply because the TRUTH, is ABSENT in your heart...

If indeed you held TRUTH... you would KNOW it and be willing IN ANY INSTANCE to share it, ...without even need for a Bible or Concordance, rather it would POUR FORTH from the FOUNTAIN of LOVE within you... but lo... nothing but deviation and avoidance, from you ...pours from that heart within..

Good luck Sos... you've had your chance... and SHALL recieve the coming SHAME for ignoring that opportunity... of your own accord and choosing.

Mostly because like HERM... basically because you likely do not actually have ANY real knowledge of your own, gained of searching the HOLY SCRIPTURES...

FEARING ITS Correction of you, ...and thereby, AVOIDING it, ...instead of LOVINGLY and CONFIDENTLY embracing it...


Later...

PEACE...


...willieH

 

[Sophrosyne]

Just as I thought... nothing but excuses from you. Way to go, Sos!

however you want to spin it.

There are "heated arguments" about UFO's, but Science still thinks "there is nothing to it"... You, as does your comrade HERM, fail to address what you "really believe"... FEARFUL that you might find be WRONG, instead of SEEKING CORRECTION from the WORD.

Show ONE "scientifc SOURCE"... that SUPPORTS the existence of UFO's.

Science supports the existence of UFOs, the definition of UFO is Unidentified Flying Object.... period. You have to equate a UFO with something identifiable to reject the fact that until a flying object is identified it can exist and be valid. The stigma of UFOs is to insist they are something beyond what the definition describes. I don't believe that UFOs are "alien" as in some other life form of our universe, but I don't discount them as something to do with spiritual realm type stuff 100% because there is a lot we do not know about that stuff. Would I relate a UFO to a demon or angel? Offhand.... no. I would resist until I was sure but some could say the pillar of fire was a UFO in the bible.

As far as smilies go... ATHEISTS have better sense of humor, than do most that claim to be "come in the name"... STIFF-NECKED, RELIGIOUS, and unwilling to accept challenge of your TRADITION... CEMENTED in that TRADITION, unable to further LEARN...
Which "tradition" is EASILY shown to be ILLOGICAL, UNLOVING, VENGENT, GRACE-LESS and FORK TONGUED... and which messengers OF IT, are MANY, and same SHALL be REJECTED of CHRIST at His appearing -- Matt 7:22-23

interesting how you put this in there just before......

No one is ridiculing you... You easily accomplish that YOURSELF, with your unwillingness to STAND for what you BELIEVE...

FAILING to study to show yourself approved... swallowing everything that TRADITIONALISTS feed you, without QUESTIONING the ILLOGICAL positioning of their teachings... Naming the EFFORT of the SAVIOR and His FATHER YHVH as a FAILIURE, naming them as unable to "fulfill" their DESIRE and INTENT for mankind...

Posing MANKIND as that which demotes the DESIRE and INTENT of God, with your own OVERESTIMATED selfishness as the POWER to make that demotion... destined for the GEHENNA SHAME as those you condemn with that designation, watch YOU immeresed in your the SHAME of your discontent, and false witness.


Yeah right concerning IGNORANCE, ...HERM, on a DAILY basis, ...ignores MANY points made to him, ...as do YOU herein travel the same EXCUSE ridden pathway...

Good luck Sos... you've had your chance... and SHALL recieve the coming SHAME for ignoring that opportunity... of your own accord and choosing.

Mostly because like HERM... basically because you do not actually have ANY real knowledge of your own gained of searching the HOLY SCRIPTURES, ...FEARING ITS Correction of you, ...and thereby, AVOIDING it, instead of embracing it...


PEACE...


...willieH

Time for me to shake the dust off my feet and move on.

 

[createdtoworship]

I can answer all of these, showing your perception to (1) be LITERAL, (2) be disconnected with REALITY, and (3) to have no more "revelation" than an UNBELIEVER would derive from the reading of these...

But WHY should I? You do not answer me! Until you are willing to GIVE and not just TAKE... I shall leave your questions and your non-existent "bachelors degree" education to figure out the answers...

Where is your "bachelor's degree", HERM?

How about YOU, HERM? How are YOU tempted? Does some "talking snake" "slither" to your location (wherever that might be at any particular moment) and TALK to you? ...Thereby persuading you to "do" evil?


REMEMBER the SCRIPTURE SAYS --- CHRIST was tempted in all points ..."AS"... are WE -- Heb 4:15

So, if a "TALKING SNAKE" indeed, tempted ADAM, and then slithered up to CHRIST to tempt Him, then... YOU (remember the "AS" thing concerning TEMPTATION), must be dealing with that TALKING SNAKE as well, eh? ...Please! Can you be any more fooled than you are?


And since CHRIST called Peter "satan"... then, according to YOUR thought processes, ...the Apostle Peter was actually not a human being, but a TALKING SNAKE, eh HERM?


How ridiculous and without REASON is your thinking, when it is even SURFACELY ...analyzed!

Unfortunately, there are MANY mentally disturbed people in institutions which utilize the same type of "reasoning"... Better watch out HERM... they're comin' to get you!


PEACE be untaya ...me bratha...


...willieH

you asked to debate you on satan, I offered my premise, then you offer none in return. So I guess the debate is won in my behalf.

Do want to debate something else?

How about the existence of the proton or the neutron?

Or the existence of pluto (which I have offered several pictures from hubble, and from nasa). However you seem to be confused about Nasa. They don't photograph UFO's at all that I have seen. So your comparison of the pictures of the pluto with ufo's is an outright lie.

here is a song for you

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gf8LHn-UrgM

 

[createdtoworship]

Just as I thought... nothing but excuses from you. Way to go, Sos!




There are "heated arguments" about UFO's, but Science still thinks "there is nothing to it"... You, as does your comrade HERM, fail to address what you "really believe"... FEARFUL that you might find be WRONG, instead of SEEKING CORRECTION from the WORD.




Show ONE "scientifc SOURCE"... that SUPPORTS the existence of UFO's.

As far as smilies go... ATHEISTS have better sense of humor, than do most that claim to be "come in the name"... STIFF-NECKED, RELIGIOUS, and unwilling to accept challenge of your TRADITION... CEMENTED in that TRADITION, unable to further LEARN...

Which "tradition" is EASILY shown to be ILLOGICAL, UNLOVING, VENGENT, GRACE-LESS and FORK TONGUED... and which messengers OF IT, are MANY, and same SHALL be REJECTED of CHRIST at His appearing -- Matt 7:22-23



No one is ridiculing you... You easily accomplish that YOURSELF, with your unwillingness to STAND for what you BELIEVE...

FAILING to study to show yourself approved... swallowing everything that TRADITIONALISTS feed you, without QUESTIONING the ILLOGICAL positioning of their teachings... Naming the EFFORT of the SAVIOR and His FATHER YHVH as a FAILIURE, naming them as unable to "fulfill" their DESIRE and INTENT for mankind...

Posing MANKIND as that which demotes the DESIRE and INTENT of God, with your own OVERESTIMATED selfishness as having the POWER to make that demotion of DIVINE Desire and Intent -- 2 Pet 3:9 -- destined for the GEHENNA SHAME with which you condemn others taking that designation and EXALTING yourSELF above them, THREATING THEM with VENGENCE instead of DELIVERING the LOVE of YHVH to them.

Instead to your coming chagrin, THEY shall watch YOU immeresed in your the SHAME of your discontent, and TAINTED false witness.

Concerning IGNORANCE, ...HERM, on a DAILY basis, ...ignores MANY points made to him, ...as do YOU herein travel the same EXCUSE ridden pathway... which, displayed by this response, that YOU are not "UP to the TASK", of witnessing TRUTH... simply because the TRUTH, is ABSENT in your heart...

If indeed you held TRUTH... you would KNOW it and be willing IN ANY INSTANCE to share it, ...without even need for a Bible or Concordance, rather it would POUR FORTH from the FOUNTAIN of LOVE within you... but lo... nothing but deviation and avoidance, from you ...pours from that heart within..

Good luck Sos... you've had your chance... and SHALL recieve the coming SHAME for ignoring that opportunity... of your own accord and choosing.

Mostly because like HERM... basically because you likely do not actually have ANY real knowledge of your own, gained of searching the HOLY SCRIPTURES...

FEARING ITS Correction of you, ...and thereby, AVOIDING it, ...instead of LOVINGLY and CONFIDENTLY embracing it...


Later...

PEACE...


...willieH

I thought you only demeaned, ridiculed and insulted me? I am getting Jealous now.

 

[Sophrosyne]

I thought you only demeaned, ridiculed and insulted me? I am getting Jealous now.

 

[WillieH]

I thought you only demeaned, ridiculed and insulted me? I am getting Jealous now.

Foolishness is your habit HERM... and, do you ever cease whining?

ANY person which is TRULY seeking GOD and His correction knows TWO basic things...

(1) -- No matter WHERE one is ones "understanding", there is ALWAYS room for GOD's CORRECTION, which is FOUND in His WORD... and,

(2) -- that ANY REAL and HONEST BIBLICAL discussion is never a ..."me against you" thing, it is a "TRUTH against FALSEHOOD thing"...

But you do not seek TRUTH, you seek to be RIGHT... ...which in itself declares the INHERENT SELFISHNEES you are yet to overcome in your life...

PEACE...


...willieH

 

[WillieH]

I thought you only demeaned, ridiculed and insulted me? I am getting Jealous now.

No "demeaning or insulting" done... Please! Just called a "spade", a "spade"... Must you whine about everything, HERM?

pEACE...


...willieH

 

[WillieH]

Did you forget the saying willy do we need to fill in the blanks?

Don't need to... it was my post I chose to leave it blank, but yyou certainly KNOW what the word is, don't you? ...If you don't then you are not only IGNORANT of Scripture, but also, just as IGNORANT of the most COMMON cliches in existence...

Peace...


...willieH

 

[WillieH]

you asked to debate you on satan, I offered my premise, then you offer none in return. So I guess the debate is won in my behalf.

Do want to debate something else?

How about the existence of the proton or the neutron?

Or the existence of pluto (which I have offered several pictures from hubble, and from nasa). However you seem to be confused about Nasa. They don't photograph UFO's at all that I have seen. So your comparison of the pictures of the pluto with ufo's is an outright lie.

here is a song for you

Your complaint is not valid... (and btw, ...about the "Pluto" or "ATOM" things.. these are things for which you have no VIABLE proof, so the discussion of them is moot. As well, I prefer to spend my time and focus on BIBLICAL discussion.)

You offered NO PROOF at all that "satan" is a BEING, and I replied to that which you DID provide.

And as well, did not READ or ABORB what what said to you (in LARGE LETTERS for the reading impaired) in THIS post:

I can answer all of these, showing your perception to (1) be LITERAL, (2) be disconnected with REALITY, and (3) to have no more "revelation" than an UNBELIEVER would derive from the reading of these...

But ...WHY should I?

You do not answer me! Until you are willing to GIVE and not just TAKE... I shall leave your questions and your non-existent "bachelors degree" education to figure out the answers...

Where is your "bachelor's degree", HERM?

How about YOU, HERM? How are YOU tempted? Does some "talking snake" "slither" to your location (wherever that might be at any particular moment) and TALK to you? ...Thereby persuading you to "do" evil?


REMEMBER the SCRIPTURE SAYS --- CHRIST was tempted in all points ..."AS"... are WE -- Heb 4:15

So, if a "TALKING SNAKE" indeed, tempted ADAM, and then slithered up to CHRIST to tempt Him, then... YOU (remember the "AS" thing concerning TEMPTATION), must be dealing with that TALKING SNAKE as well, eh? ...Please! Can you be any more fooled than you are?


And since CHRIST called Peter "satan"... then, according to YOUR thought processes, ...the Apostle Peter was actually not a human being, but a TALKING SNAKE, eh HERM?


How ridiculous and without REASON is your thinking, when it is even SURFACELY ...analyzed!

Unfortunately, there are MANY mentally disturbed people in institutions which utilize the same type of "reasoning"... Better watch out HERM... they're comin' to get you!


PEACE be untaya ...me bratha...


...willieH

When it comes down to it HERM, ...It ain't that hard... especially for one who alludes that he SUPPOSEDLY has an "EDUCATION"...



HONORABLE DEBATE goes like this --->

(1) -- YOU say "this observation is what I THINK...

(2) -- To which I then respond to those contentions, and then,

(3) -- I SAY "this observation is what I THINK...

(4) -- to which YOU then respond to those contentions, and then,

(5) -- YOU SAY... (repeat step #1)

(6) -- (repeat step #2)

(7) -- I SAY... (repeat step #3)

(8) -- (repeat step #4)

AND SO and SO FORTH... etc, etc, etc... as long as the DEBATE lasts...



DISHONORABLE DEBATE goes like this --->

(1) -- YOU SAY "this is what I THINK", and then,

(2) -- I respond to those points, and then,

(3) -- I SAY "this is what I THINK", and then,

(4) -- YOU IGNORE what I said, and then, YOU SAY more of what YOU THINK...

EFFECTIVELY ENDING any HONORABLE form of DEBATE...


Any IDIOT knows this procedure, do you HERM?


SO...

If indeed, you wish to DEBATE this issue (or any other with me)... then YOU will either respond to ME and MY QUESTIONS... or you shall NOT get a RESPONSE because you have VIOLATED the conditions of DEBATE by AVOIDING what I have said...

As previously stated, any IDIOT knows this procedure... do you? Either you will DEBATE and follow the HONORABLE CONDITIONS of a DEBATE... or you will continue posting that which is DISHONORABLE, and UNWORTHY of an answer!



PEACE...


...willieH

 

[createdtoworship]

I can answer all of these, showing your perception to (1) be LITERAL, (2) be disconnected with REALITY, and (3) to have no more "revelation" than an UNBELIEVER would derive from the reading of these...

But WHY should I? You do not answer me! Until you are willing to GIVE and not just TAKE... I shall leave your questions and your non-existent "bachelors degree" education to figure out the answers...

Where is your "bachelor's degree", HERM?

How about YOU, HERM? How are YOU tempted? Does some "talking snake" "slither" to your location (wherever that might be at any particular moment) and TALK to you? ...Thereby persuading you to "do" evil?


REMEMBER the SCRIPTURE SAYS --- CHRIST was tempted in all points ..."AS"... are WE -- Heb 4:15

So, if a "TALKING SNAKE" indeed, tempted ADAM, and then slithered up to CHRIST to tempt Him, then... YOU (remember the "AS" thing concerning TEMPTATION), must be dealing with that TALKING SNAKE as well, eh? ...Please! Can you be any more fooled than you are?


And since CHRIST called Peter "satan"... then, according to YOUR thought processes, ...the Apostle Peter was actually not a human being, but a TALKING SNAKE, eh HERM?


How ridiculous and without REASON is your thinking, when it is even SURFACELY ...analyzed!

Unfortunately, there are MANY mentally disturbed people in institutions which utilize the same type of "reasoning"... Better watch out HERM... they're comin' to get you!


PEACE be untaya ...me bratha...


...willieH

You said you could answer "all of these" but you answered nothing in reply to the verses I mentioned in Matthew chapter four. Secondly you post NEW questions for me. In which I will answer out of good character in stead of demanding a response for the other.

So number one,

Satan comes as many things, a snake, a lion, an angel of light, a deciever etc. Just as you may have many offices yourself. You may be a father, a husband and an employee. But no where does it state that satan is only ONE of these things. Secondly, it is possible that satan possessed an actual snake in the garden, as we know that demons can possess animals like pigs in the gospels. But as far as the latter embodiments of satan it states that satan was"AS" a lion. Not Satan, a lion. Thirdly, as far as the angelic embodiment: This may be satans original form since it would be the most mobile and beneficial to be a "prince of the power of the air". As far as calling peter satan, most likely it was a reference to the fact that peter was acting as a possessed individual would and as a worldy man. Because as far as we know satan biblically has not possessed anyone since Judas.


Now answer this simple question if you can

If satan is not a being, what is he?

 

[createdtoworship]

No "demeaning or insulting" done... Please! Just called a "spade", a "spade"... Must you whine about everything, HERM?

pEACE...


...willieH

Did you know the origin of that phrase was racist:

"Origin

It might be thought that this derives from the derogatory use of the slang term 'spade', meaning Negro - an American term originating in the 20th century. That view of it as derogatory might also be thought to be supported by this piece from John Trapp's Mellificium theologicum, or the marrow of many good authors, 1647:

"Gods people shall not spare to call a spade a spade, a [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]rd a [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]rd."

from
http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/call-a-spade-a-spade.html

 

[WillieH]

I will be answering this post in 2 parts...

PART ONE...

You said you could answer "all of these" but you answered nothing in reply to the verses I mentioned in Matthew chapter four.

As I clearly stated you shall GAIN ANSWERS from me, only on the basis that YOU answer what I ask or point out to YOU... GENERALIZED WHOLE POSTS will not be ANSWERED by me.

If you only take a given point and quote it, it will be answered, otherwise, I will IGNORE you in the same way you IGNORE me...

Secondly you post NEW questions for me. In which I will answer out of good character in stead of demanding a response for the other.

Good. A step in the right direction.

I am not unreasonable... That you have decided to answer, you shall recieve an answer to questions to which you GIVE an answer...

So number one,

Satan comes as many things, a snake, a lion, an angel of light, a deciever etc.

FIRST --- Here is your first chance to see if YOU shall answer ME...

This is ridiculous, and cannot be PROVEN... Not even GOD "comes as MANY THINGS"... GOD is ALWAYS, GOD... MAN is ALWAYS MAN... DOGS are ALWAYS DOGS... TREES are ALWAYS TREES...

But lo & behold you think that... "satan", "comes" as a SNAKE, a DRAGON, a LION, an ANGEL of LIGHT, a DECIEVER?

Nah! No more than JESUS is or actually "came" as a "LAMB"... the usage of terminology applied to "satan", are just CHARACTERISTICS of this principle. EVIL manifest in man is the PRINCIPLE "devouring" the potential of GOOD in MAN... Just as JESUS was "as a LAMB" (a "creature" which is inoffensive, innocent, docile, and without malice=LAMB)

JESUS did not have a "wooly coat", nor did He "baaa" lingually... accordingly "satan" is NOT a menacing MONSTEROUS Creature (lion, dragon)


SECOND --- To begin with, "satan" IS (does not "come" as) the ADVERSARY of GOD and TRUTH, because it is manifest in those which act in ADVERSITY to the COMMAND of GOD...

I will address each of these terms:

(1) -- I agree that ADVERSITY (which is WHAT "satan" IS), and that said ADVERSITY is named a LION which (figuratively) devours TRUTH in those in which IT is active... As is exampled by the Apostle PETER -- Matt 16:23 -- which CHRIST Himself, named as active in PETER and in his words...

If PETER was the man chosen to be the foundation of the CHURCH and "satan" was ACTIVE in PETER... then ALL others far less dedicated to CHRIST certainly are "acting: as "satan" in their own ADVERSITY to the mission and COMMANDS of God.


(2) -- I also ABSOLUTELY agree that ADVERSITY (which is WHAT "satan" IS), is named a DECIEVER, in those who are DECIEVED by their lack of SEEKING God with the WHOLE HEART -- Jer 29:14 -- which is MAN in his NATURAL and DESPARETLY WICKED state -- Jer 17:9 -- DECIEVED, because that which reigns in the UNDEDICATED heart is DECEIT.


(3) -- "satan" is mentioned in SYMBOLIC text as a DRAGON... which means that "whatever is meant SYMBOLICALLY" concerning the use of the word "DRAGON"... is that which "satan" is (NOT a "literal DRAGON", no more that JESUS is a "literal LAMB").


The meaining of the word "DRAGON" as used in the Revelation, is a "kind of serpent that FACINATES"... #G1404 -- DRAKON -- The term "dragon" is NOT literal, and "satan" does not "come" in form of a DRAGON...

"satan" IS the "DECEPTIVE facination" of EVIL, as being GOOD, which is the HUMAN heart, amidst a state of deception -- Jer 17:9


(4) -- Please PROVE with SCRIPTURE where "satan" comes as a SNAKE.


(5) Please PROVE with SCRIPTURE where "satan" comes as an "ANGEL" (especially of "LIGHT")... or where "satan" is mentioned as BEING or an "ANGEL" at all... It SAYS that "satan" is TRANSFORMED into an ANGEL of LIGHT, not that "satan" ever was or IS ...an ANGEL of LIGHT


ADVERSITY is become that which is believed to be "GOOD"... The acceptance of MAN's MISBEHAVIOR is become "acceptable" in these last days... HOMOSEXUALITY is deemed in this day as, "an alternative lifestyle"... and ADULTERY is just "SLEEPING" with another... etc..

These MISBEHAVIORS are examples of the "transformed" MIND and "MESSAGE", of modern thinking... to see MISBEHAVIOR, or SINFULNESS, as GOOD and accordingly sidesteps it as being "evil" in the deception that it is "ones own business"...


Also ADVERSITY is become the TEACHING of the MANY which "come in the name" of CHRIST, which WILL be REJECTED by HIM...


MANY which "think" they are about doing "GOOD", indeed have become "TRANSFORMED" into "ANGELS (messengers) of LIGHT", will SURELY find their doings named "INIQUITY" by JESUS -- Matt 7:22-23 --


He that has EARS to HEAR... Listen to the WORD -- and BELIEVE what IT SAYS!

Just as you may have many offices yourself. You may be a father, a husband and an employee. But no where does it state that satan is only ONE of these things.

You are disregarding that the word "satan" has a DEFINITION... and is NOT a proper name.

That HEBREW word is -- #H7853 / 7854 -- SATAN --->

#H7853 [ROOT] which means "to attack (figuratively) ACCUSE / (be an) ADVERSARY / resist...

#H7854 [derivitive of 7853] which means -- an OPPONENT / ARCH enemy of GOOD / ADVERSARY / satan / withstand

NOTHING in these definitions depicts a BEING.


"satan" does not "hold" offices in these descriptions!

"satan" is not a SNAKE, nor is

"satan" a DRAGON, nor is

"satan" a LION, ...these are ALL characteristics, not "OFFICES" such as a "father, brother, son", etc.


Office - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary


An "office" means that you hold this particular PLACE or POSITION in life...

Being a SNAKE is not holding the "office" of SNAKE... a word such as "SNAKE" is descriptive of the NATURE or ESSENCE of a creature, ...not a "position or place" in life that one "holds"...


Much like saying "LAUGHTER" or "FEAR" or "CELEBRATION" are describing different "offices" we occupy in life.

Continued in PART 2...


PEACE...


...willieH

 

[WillieH]

PART 2...

Secondly, it is possible that satan possessed an actual snake in the garden,

"it is POSSIBLE?" --- This is a MAJOR defect in your theology gradyll, for like many things you "believe", this one is clearly derived via SPECULATION!

No Scripture makes ANY such SUGGESTION... It notes that the SERPENT was present in the Garden... in the persons of ADAM and EVE... which were the ones which were CURIOUS, ...QUESTIONING... the TRUTH that YHVH had spoken -- Gen 3:4-6 -- Just as when YOU are presented DECISIONS during the course of your life, which contain either GOOD or EVIL as the options... There is NO INVISIBLE, INAUDIBLE, "talking SNAKE"... suggests these options to YOU... YOU consider them as YOUR CHOICES.

The SCRIPTURE notes that "the "serpent" was MORE SUBTIL than ANY BEAST of the Garden"... An ACTUAL SNAKE is considered as part of the ANIMAL kingdom... which indeed IS a BEAST. The ones in the Garden MORE SUBTIL were MAN... Being INTELLIGENT, MUCH MORE than ANY animal, including SNAKES.

The word "SUBTIL" found in -- Gen 3:1 -- is -- H6175 -- ARUWM -- which means "CUNNING"... animals are not CUNNING... Cunning is the EXHIBITING of SKILL, and is CLEVER, and/or CRAFTY... these are characteristics of HUMAN INTELLIGENCE and are definitely CALCULATING processes...

EVE... by the internal and NATURAL suggestion of her own DECEITFUL heart, decided to EAT! Just as,

YOU in your life, of your own DECEITFUL heart, once decided to SIN!

There was no "TALKING SNAKE" that prompted YOU, gradyll... YOU did it, and in YOUR DOING, YOU brought the curse of SIN upon YOURSELF, and the penalty that accompanies it -- Rom 3:23 -- 6:23 -- which is WHY ...DEATH is required of YOU (and all other sinners).


MAN is made in the IMAGE of GOD, which KNOWS ALL THINGS... and is ESPECIALLY "cunning"... One does not have to look too far to see MUCH... CUNNING, within the Human race.


The HEART which is DECEITFUL above ALL THINGS (which would include "satan") ...is the NATURAL state of MAN, beginning with ADAM (and EVE) -- Rom 5:12 -- this verse states that SIN ENTERED by the DOING of ADAM (and his own DECEITFUL HEART, which decieves by NATURE)... not by the deception of a "TALKING SNAKE".

as we know that demons can possess animals like pigs in the gospels.

FIRST --- Yet another LITERAL observation of SPIRITUAL text. As I have said before, ANY UNBELIEVER of ANY religion or even UNSPIRITUAL ATHEISM, could read these passages, and come up with the COMMON ORTHODOX vision. There is NOTHING SPIRITUAL whatsoever in this "interpretation" of the men of Gergesenes.

To begin with, this is not evidence of "possession" the word means to be vexed by a BAD SPIRIT, which ANYONE can manifest that is ANGRY -- Matt 8:30-32 -- Nor of presence of "demons" (fallen angels)... Just ANGRY men, as one might say, ...with VIOLENT tendencies.

The men @ Gergesenes had strong ADVERSITY within them which made them VIOLENT... the ADVERSITY of VIOLENCE (which infests men oftentimes) is that which was CAST out of the men...

As well NO ONE has EVER ADVISED or COUNSELED GOD -- Rom 11:34 -- Isaiah 40:13 -- so the "request" was not a bunch of DEMONS "advising" (even DIRECTING) CHRIST! ...

Please! The state of the MEN was that which prompted CHRIST to free them... as CHRIST was MERCIFUL unto them. A healing... not a bunch of disobedient "ANGELS" which thought to DIRECT & even ORDER CHRIST to send them into the PIGS!


If these are actually were the SPIRITUAL beings that you contend they were, ...the casting of them from the MEN into the PIGS did NOTHING to them. "SPIRITS" do not "DROWN" or PERISH in water!


What affects MAN, affects the Creation which was GIVEN over to Him by GOD -- Gen 1:29-30 -- Why does a cat or a dog run in front of a car? Because some "demon" told it to, or "possessed it?


Nah.


Do you actually think that PIGS "think" intelligently? And be directed to their deaths by SPIRITS? What LANGUAGE do "DEMONS" (spirits) and PIGS (physical uncommunicative animals) commonly share that they might communicate? (i.e the PIGS given the order by the DEMONS to KILL themselves?)


SECOND --- Where is there proof there are DEMONS in the WORD? The word "demon" does not even appear in the WORD.

But as far as the latter embodiments of satan it states that satan was"AS" a lion. Not Satan, a lion.

My point exactly... "satan" IS NOT a LION, nor DRAGON, nor SNAKE, nor ever was at any time, an "ANGEL of LIGHT"... IT is the PRINCIPALITY of ADVERSITY. Which is EVERYWHERE and in EVERYONE...

ADVERSITY is seen in many forms in life, ...but remains ONE THING = ADVERSITY.

And thet ADVERSITY within the FLESH is our ENEMY, not some mythical THEOLOGICAL INVENTION beileved to be a BEING, with other "evil comrades"...

Thirdly, as far as the angelic embodiment: This may be satans original form since it would be the most mobile and beneficial to be a "prince of the power of the air".

Again you apply SPECULATION to your observation...


Actually the passage to which you refer -- Eph 2:1-2 -- does not mention or refer to "satan", it refers to the "course of THIS WORLD"... Which is the NATURAL state of man.

The word "AIR" in this verse means to "breathe unconciously"... MEN who are NATURALLY walking according to the COURSE of THIS WORLD, are MEN that are walking according to the "PRINCE of the POWER of the AIR", in the NATURAL state of MAN, which is DECEITFUL above ALL THINGS -- Jer 17:9 -- and is UNCONVERTED to HOLINESS...

The "prince of the power of the air", are in the DARK (as JESUS put it, are "the DEAD which bury the DEAD"), ...walking DEAD according to the ways of "unconsciousness to Holiness" ...of DEATH, ...rather than walking according to the WAY of LIFE -- John 14:6

As far as calling peter satan, most likely it was a reference to the fact that peter was acting as a possessed individual would and as a worldy man. Because as far as we know satan biblically has not possessed anyone since Judas.

MOST LIKELY? ...is there a SPECULATION PATTERN forming here? ...ABSOLUTELY!


AGAIN, ...this is totally CONJECTURE on your part... In an attempt to skirt the issue which "issue" WAS DEFINED by CHRIST within the text... There is no "guesswork" in this text, gradyll!

JESUS CLEARLY called Peter "satan"... and none of what you just suggested is in the passage.

JESUS CLEARLY defined what this address of Peter actually was:

Matt 16:23 (BOLDED words are the DEFINITION from CHRIST) -- But He turned unto PETER, ...GET THEE BEHIND ME... SATAN, thou are an offense unto Me... [definition:] ...for THOU SAVOREST not the things that be of GOD, but THOSE THAT BE of MEN --

NOT that "be of "GOD"... but those things that... BE OF MEN!

Therefore the THINGS that "Peter" whos is addressed as "satan" in this TEXT are --->

THOSE things that BE OF MEN = "satan" = THOSE things that BE of MEN.

Which is WHY the TRADITIONS (things) THAT BE of MEN, ...when they are embraced and repeated and believed, make the WORD of NONE EFFECT -- Matt 15:6

"satan" the ADVERSARY of GOD = Those THINGS that BE of MEN.

Now answer this simple question if you can
If satan is not a being, what is he?

Is that it gradyll?

"satan" is no more a "he" then is ANGER, or NERVOUSNESS...

"satan" is the PRINCIPALITY of ADVERSITY ...in MAN.

Wherever MAN is... within his makeup in the NATURAL is the ADVERSITY which is OF the FLESH as PAUL aptly noted in his own confession:

Rom 7:22-23 ...

22 -- For I delight in the law of God after the INWARD man [CHRIST]
23 -- but I see ANOTHER LAW, IN MY MEMBERS, ...WARRING [Rev 12:7 ]... against the law of my MIND, and bringing ME into the CAPTIVITY of the law of SIN which ...IS ...IN... MY MEMBERS.

Do you think PAUL, here, is "demon possessed", gradyll?

[not brought into CAPTIVITY by an "external" ...being, called "satan"]


Actually Scripture notes that NO ONE COUNSELS YHVH -- Isaiah 40:13 -- Rom 11:34 -- as wel -- Eph 1:11 -- notes that ALL THINGS are done (worked) ACCORDING to the ADVISEMENTS of the WILL of YHVH God.

GOD is the one which SENDS men INTO CAPTIVITY -- Jer 29:14 -- and, GOD is the one which DELIVERS men FROM that CAPTIVITY.

With NO RESPECT of PERSONS involved -- Prov 28:21 -- Acts 10:34

Which = GOD is IN CONTROL of ALL THINGS... which means that "satan" (whatever you believe it to be), ...is IN CONTROL of NO-"THING".

So, the passage which mentions "satan" in -- Job 2:4-5 -- cannot BE a "BEING"... for NO ONE at ANY TIME has "counselled YHVH" As these 2 verses (Rom 11:34 -- Isaiah 40:13) BOTH testify.

In order for "satan" to ADVISE YHVH and therefore be a "BEING"... would also make "satan" a "WHO" (advising entity and "COUNSELLOR")... Which thinking is DENIED by these 2 verses.



NOW that I have answered your QUESTIONS... I will note these FEW questions [***] ...that I have posed in this answer for YOU to answer these:



*** (4) -- Please PROVE with SCRIPTURE where "satan" comes as a SNAKE.



*** (5) Please PROVE with SCRIPTURE where "satan" comes as an ANGEL (especially of "LIGHT")... or where "satan" is mentioned as BEING an ANGEL at all...


*** Rom 7:22-23 ...

22 -- For I delight in the law of God after the INWARD man [CHRIST]
23 -- but I see ANOTHER LAW, IN MY MEMBERS, ...WARRING [Rev 12:7 ]... against the law of my MIND, and bringing ME into the CAPTIVITY of the law of SIN which ...IS ...IN... MY MEMBERS.

Do you think PAUL, here, is "demon possessed", gradyll?


Thanks for your answers...


PEACE...


...willieH

 

[WillieH]

Did you know the origin of that phrase was racist:

"Origin

It might be thought that this derives from the derogatory use of the slang term 'spade', meaning Negro - an American term originating in the 20th century. That view of it as derogatory might also be thought to be supported by this piece from John Trapp's Mellificium theologicum, or the marrow of many good authors, 1647:

"Gods people shall not spare to call a spade a spade, a [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]rd a [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]rd."

from
Call a spade a spade

I do not care what the ORIGIN of that phrase is! I speak of an HONEST HEART... and speak of things as THEY ARE, which is WHAT I intended, and YOU failed to recieve.

Trying to further spread the DEVILISHNESS of your HELL to me... a FOOL... to be PITIED.

It is YOU which needs education, not me... ASSUMING not only your "beliefs", but inserting brash AUDACITY and OFFENSIVENESS to make such a comment toward me...

I will be expecting an APOLOGY from you! Not that you have the wherewithal to make one...

Some of the BEST people I KNOW are BLACK...

I have worked with MANY fine BLACKS...

I served in the ARMY with many friends which were BLACK!

I have MINISTERED with BLACKS...

Several in my FAMILY are BLACK... How do you even KNOW that I am not BLACK?

You continue to make your BEST EFFORT to try to manufacture NEGATIVITY... FALSELY ACCUSING with your LOOSE TONGUE... when you do not KNOW any facts of my LIFE...

FOUR of my 10 GRANDCHILDREN --- NOT TO MENTION ...my SON in LAW are BLACK!

Though I do not have much money, and am (3 years) suffering CANCER, ...I faithfully support TWO BLACK children in 3rd world countries EVERY MONTH.

I LOVE them all...

You are a FOOL, speaking out your backside MUCH, if not most of the time...

FYI

A SPADE is a TOOL...
A SPADE is a CARD...
A SPADE is the edge of a SWORD or OAR...

Do you come up with any of those? OF COURSE YOU do NOT... ...your heart is prone to EVIL first... then SPEAKING it to others...

In the growing COLDNESS of your HEART, you assume the WORST of others... especially ME...

You are an UNINFORMED ARROGANT of the highest order...

There are MANY other words that I could apply to you and which YOU DESERVE, but instead, I shall reach up for the FORGIVENESS that YOU do not DESERVE!

YOU in your growing FOOLISHNESS, ...are hereby, ...forgiven...


PEACE...

...willieH

 

[createdtoworship]

I do not care what the ORIGIN of that phrase is! I speak of an HONEST HEART... and speak of things as THEY ARE, which is WHAT I intended, and YOU failed to recieve.

Trying to further spread the DEVILISHNESS of your HELL to me... a FOOL... to be PITIED.

It is YOU which needs education, not me... ASSUMING not only your "beliefs", but inserting brash AUDACITY and OFFENSIVENESS to make such a comment toward me...

I will be expecting an APOLOGY from you! Not that you have the wherewithal to make one...

Some of the BEST people I KNOW are BLACK...

I have worked with MANY fine BLACKS...

I served in the ARMY with many friends which were BLACK!

I have MINISTERED with BLACKS...

YOU are an IDIOT!

Several in my FAMILY are BLACK... How do you even KNOW that I am not BLACK, you dingbo?

You continue to make your BEST EFFORT to try to manufacture NEGATIVITY... FALSELY ACCUSING with your LOOSE TONGUE... when you do not KNOW any facts of my LIFE...

FOUR of my 10 GRANDCHILDREN --- NOT TO MENTION ...my SON in LAW are BLACK!

Though I do not have much money, and am (3 years) suffering CANCER, ...I faithfully support TWO BLACK children in 3rd world countries EVERY MONTH.

I LOVE them all...

You are a FOOL, speaking out your backside MUCH, if not most of the time...

FYI

A SPADE is a TOOL...
A SPADE is a CARD...
A SPADE is the edge of a SWORD or OAR...

Do you come up with any of those? OF COURSE YOU do NOT... ...your heart is prone to EVIL first... then SPEAKING it to others...

In the growing COLDNESS of your HEART, you assume the WORST of others... especially ME...

You are an UNINFORMED ARROGANT of the highest order...

There are MANY other words that I could apply to you and which YOU DESERVE, but instead, I shall reach up for the FORGIVENESS that YOU do not DESERVE!

YOU in your growing FOOLISHNESS, ...are hereby, ...forgiven...


PEACE...

...willieH

I never said once that you were racist. I said the origin of the phrase you use frequently, is. No appology from me sir.

 

[Timothew]

I never said once that you were racist. I said the origin of the phrase you use frequently, is. No appology from me sir.

I think you should apologize to Willie. It is obvious that the only reason you brought up the origin of the Spade Phrase is to link Willie with racism.

 

[WillieH]

I never said once that you were racist. I said the origin of the phrase you use frequently, is. No appology from me sir.

YOU KNOW that was YOUR INTENT...

You are a heart waxed cold... the LOVE of God, absent...

Do not bother speaking to me further... I have no use for LIARS.


...willieH