Let's Talk About Hell (4)

[Timothew]

or how about the going to it;
AC/DC - Highway To Hell - YouTube

Perfect!

So, take the Ludington Ferry to the Highway to Hell, Which is Highway 96 through Grand Rapids and Lansing. If I hit Detroit, I've gone too far.

 

[Ignatius the Evangelist]

Perfect!

Yeah--looks kinda fun with superheroes, flying, race cars--and let's not forget the music too!

 

[createdtoworship]

Those who reject the gospel will be destroyed by the second death.
As Paul said "They will be punished with everlasting destruction. . .on the day he comes to be glorified."
Genesis 35:18???
As she breathed her last—for she was dying—she named her son Ben-Oni. But his father named him Benjamin. So Rachel died and was buried on the way to Ephrath (that is, Bethlehem).
This doesn't say that her "soul", some immaterial ghost thing left her body.
Genesis 18:25???
Far be it from you to do such a thing—to kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike. Far be it from you! Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?”
How on earth does this prove that the unrighteous dead are tormented forever in fiery hell?

What is the soul according to the Bible, if it's not an immaterial ghost thing? Take note that when someone dies, they weigh the exact same as when they were alive (minus the waste). So the soul, if there is one, must be immaterial because the soul is described as "going" or "departing:"

Genesis 35:18
Young's Literal Translation
And it cometh to pass in the going out of her soul (for she died), that she calleth his name Ben-Oni; and his father called him Benjamin;

and genesis 18:25 is speaking of partiality, that the Judge of the earth will in fact Judge the wicked more harshly
(not annihilate both the same)

Genesis 18:25
American King James Version
That be far from you to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from you: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?

here is another clip on annihilation

"William Shedd cogently argues that “the extinction of consciousness is not of the nature of punishment.”[6] If suffering is lacking, so is punishment; punishment entails suffering. But suffering entails consciousness. “If God by a positive act extinguishes, at death, the remorse of a hardened villain, by extinguishing his self-consciousness, it is a strange use of language to denominate this a punishment.”[7]

Consider also the following differences between either cessation of consciousness/annihilation and punishment: (1) There are no degrees of annihilation. One is either annihilated or one is not. In contrast, the Scripture teaches that there will be degrees of punishment on the day of judgment (Matt. 10:15; 11:21-24; 16:27; Luke 12:47-48; John 15:22; Heb. 10:29; Rev. 20:11-15; 22:12, etc.). (2) For those who are experiencing severe punishment, extinction of consciousness is actually a state to be desired. Luke 23:30-31 and Revelation 9:6 talk about the wicked — experiencing the intense wrath of God — begging in vain to have the mountains fall on them. They clearly prefer unconsciousness to their continuing torment. As Shedd observes, “The guilty and remorseful have, in all ages, deemed the extinction of consciousness after death to be a blessing; but the advocate of conditional immortality explains it to be a curse….”[8] (3) Punishment demands the existence of the one being punished. As Gerstner points out, “One can exist and not be punished; but no one can be punished and not exist. Annihilation means the obliteration of existence and anything that pertains to existence, such as punishment. Annihilation avoids punishment, rather than encountering it.”[9] (4) One could argue that annihilation might be the result of punishment. But the Scriptures say that it is the punishment itself which is eternal, not merely its result.

The punishment of the wicked entails separation from God as a key component. Notice that Christ banishes them forever from His presence. As Guthrie observes, “When we penetrate below the language about hell, the major impression is a sense of separation….”[10] Even those who do not follow Christ in this lifetime are still recipients of His goodness (Matt. 5:45), even if they do not acknowledge this. In the final state it will not be so.

The Duration of Hell From Matthew 25:41, 46. The Greek adjective aionion used in these verses means “everlasting, without end.” We should note, however, that in certain contexts the adjective aionios is not always used of eternity. In some passages it refers to an “age” or period of time. Luke 1:70, for example, says that God “spoke by the mouths of His holy prophets from of old (ap aionos).” Clearly, this cannot be a reference to eternity past. A similar construction is found in Acts 3:21.[11] On the other hand, the adjective is predicated of God (i.e., the “eternal God&#8221, as in 1 Timothy 1:7, Romans 16:26, Hebrews 9:14, and 13:8. In these latter passages aionios means “eternal,” as shown from their context and from the fact that God is the subject.

Granting that the term may or may not refer to eternity, how can we be sure of its meaning in Matthew 25? What is particularly determinative here is the fact that the duration of punishment for the wicked forms a parallel with the duration of life for the righteous: the adjective aionios is used to describe both the length of punishment for the wicked and the length of eternal life for the righteous. One cannot limit the duration of punishment for the wicked without at the same time limiting the duration of eternal life for the redeemed. It would do violence to the parallel to give it an unlimited signification in the case of eternal life, but a limited one when applied to the punishment of the wicked. John Broadus, in his classic commentary on Matthew, states, “It will at once be granted, by any unprejudiced and docile mind, that the punishment of the wicked will last as long as the life of the righteous; it is to the last degree improbable that the Great Teacher would have used an expression so inevitably suggesting a great doctrine he did not mean to teach….”

from
http://apprising.org/2011/03/04/hell-forevers-a-mighty-long-time/

 

[createdtoworship]

Perfect!

So, take the Ludington Ferry to the Highway to Hell, Which is Highway 96 through Grand Rapids and Lansing. If I hit Detroit, I've gone too far.

people crack jokes at what they don't understand. The centurions made fun of Jesus at the Crucifixion calling Him the King of the Jews and to prophecy who hit Him. Just fyi

 

[WillieH]

another lie,

nope, not catholic.

Still fooling yourself...

You are the offspring of the CATHOLIC church which is the BASIS for ORTHODOXY... and thereby a "pontificator" ...which teaches the SAME misled things, the "PONTIFF" (POPE) does...

The POPE teaches the TRINITY, ...YOU teach the trinity
The POPE teaches HELL, ...YOU teach hell
The POPE threatens the WORLD with ET, ...YOU threaten the world with et

The PONTIFF "PONTIFICATES", ...YOU "pontificate"...

peace...

...willieH

 

[createdtoworship]

Still fooling yourself...

You are the offspring of the CATHOLIC church which is the BASIS for ORTHODOXY... and thereby a "pontificator" ...which teaches the SAME misled things, the "PONTIFF" (POPE) does...

The POPE teaches the TRINITY, ...YOU teach the trinity
The POPE teaches HELL, ...YOU teach hell
The POPE threatens the WORLD with ET, ...YOU threaten the world with et

The PONTIFF "PONTIFICATES", ...YOU "pontificate"...

peace...

...willieH

Just because a cult teaches something does not make that particular subject false (ask timothew, he has pointed this out many times). Jehovah's witnesses believe in God does that mean I shouldn't?
The subject is false on an individual basis as it is compared to the word of God. I could call you a jehovah's witness since you too believe in annihilation. But that would be wrong.

 

[Timothew]

people crack jokes at what they don't understand. The centurions made fun of Jesus at the Crucifixion calling Him the King of the Jews and to prophecy who hit Him. Just fyi

People also crack jokes about foolish things other people believe.
I've shown you that the bible says that the wages of sin is death. This is proven. The bible says that the wicked pay the penalty of eternal destruction, not torment in hell. I understand the doctrine of eternal torment, but I reject it as untrue and unbiblical.

This is nothing like the centurions who mocked Jesus. I am mocking an untrue and unbiblical doctrine that itself mocks Gods by insisting that He torments people for all eternity. If any doctrine deserves to be mocked is the doctrine of eternal torment which insults God.

 

[Sweet Dreams]

To claim that God's mercy "diminishes or vanishes because of a created being's fall" involves a human reduction of God's glorious nature and imposes upon God "weakness and change," This would be a perverted creation of God in man's own sinful image and likeness, a true "blasphemy." According to St. Isaac, the image of God as Judge "is completely overshadowed by the image of God as Love (hubba) and Mercy (rahme. According to him, mercifulness is incompatible with justice." Bishop Hilarion said we should not interpret literally the figurative God that the Old Testament describes in anthropomorphic terms such as "wrath, anger, [and] hatred." He added:
"Rejecting with such decisiveness the idea of requital, Isaac shows that the Old Testament understanding of God as a chastiser of sinners" holding generations of children responsible for familial sins "does not correspond with the revelation that we have received through Christ in the New Testament." The Bishop said that Christ Himself confirmed the reality that God bears "no hatred towards anyone, [only] all-embracing love, which does not distinguish between righteous and sinner, between a friend of the truth and an enemy of the truth, between angel and demon. Every created being is precious in God's eyes. He cares for every creature. ... If we turn away from God, He does not turn away from us."


Bishop Hilarion termed the Incarnation the moment when the love of God "revealed itself to the highest degree." He said people "are called to answer the love of God with their own love" as best the can, but that the return love by humans to God on earth will always be less than perfect. God understands that, and, according to the Bishop, this explains how the infinite and perfect God, can forgive our sins. "Here St. Isaac emphasizes that God does nothing out of retribution: even to think that way about God would be blasphemous."

God as Love Overcomes Gehenna
There is another idea worse than that, Bishop Hilarion said, again, referring to St. Isaac's teachings.

"Even worse," the Bishop said, "is the opinion that God allows people to lead a sinful life on earth in order to punish them eternally after death. This is a blasphemous and perverted understanding of God, a calumny of God." To the contrary, from the first created angels to the present moment, God's love drives the universe, which, according to the Bishop, leads to St. Isaac's most important idea about Divine Mercy: "that the final destiny of the history of the universe must correspond to the majesty of God, and that the final destiny of humans should be worthy of God's mercifulness." This majesty may even modify Gehenna or hell itself, he said.

Bishop Hilarion then quoted St. Iassac on "the difficult matter of Gehenna's torment":
It is not the way of the compassionate Maker to create rational beings in order to deliver them over mercilessly to unending affliction in punishment for things of which He knew even before they were fashioned ... [A]ll the more since the foreplanning of evil and the taking of vengeance are characteristic of the passions of created brings, and do not belong to the Creator. For all this characterizes people who do not know or who are unaware of what they are doing.
- Bishop Hilarion

 

[WillieH]

Just because a cult teaches something does not make that particular subject false (ask timothew, he has pointed this out many times). Jehovah's witnesses believe in God does that mean I shouldn't?

CULT? And WHAT AUTHORITY, decides which "religious" entities ARE CULT, and which ARE NOT, gradyll?


The Christian "CULT" administration? Or the Christian "CULT" authority? Of maybe YOUR CHURCH?


Where is the word "CULT" found and DEFINED ...in the Scriptures, oh SON of the RCC?


And since you cannot PROVE that any such thing as a "CULT" even exists, or is a BIBLICAL premise, ...then upon WHAT AUTHORITY do you stand upon, which gives YOU the right to NAME any other person or person (aside from yourSELF), as a "CULT"?


As far as JW's go... they are EVERY BIT as CLOSE to God, as YOU PERCIEVE yourself!


And IN VAIN, do you name them with your JUDGMENTS, carelessly violating the INSTRUCION of YOUR SAVIOR -- Matt 7:1

The subject is false on an individual basis as it is compared to the word of God. I could call you a jehovah's witness since you too believe in annihilation. But that would be wrong.

More fallacy, foolishness and FALSE REPORTING...


I have not stated a belief in "annhilation"... but then again, your whole belief system is copied, and you do not even READ what is stated to you, so it is no surprize that again YOU are BEARING FALSE WITNESS...


I have clearly stated that I believe in the SALVATION of ALL MEN... (yes, ...including you! )


There is no "HELL", ...and there is no "ANNHILATION"... as the INTENT of YHVH is CLEARLY stated in the WORD of God -- 1 John 2:1-3 -- 2 Pet 3:9 -- 1 Tim 4:9-11 -- 2 Cor 5:19 -- John 1:29 -- but which YOU do not SEE, nor find in your COPIED beliefs for you seek not GOD in His WORD, ...you seek and COPY the writings of the FALSE "authority" of the "Dallas the-ILLOGICAL cemetary"


In the TRUTH, there is ONLY, the GOOD NEWS of PEACE -- Col 1:20 -- Eph 6:15 -- -- which is the GOSPEL... which IS the SALVATION of ALL MEN -- 1 Tim 2:3-6 -- Acts 3:21 -- Luke 2:10 -- which is without RESPECT of PERSONS -- Prov 28:21 -- for GOD ALONE, ...is the SAVIOR of men -- 1 Tim 4:10 -- Isaiah 43:11 -- an NO MAN, can claim ANY portion of that manifest SALVATION -- Eph 2:8-9 -- except within the SIN of the PRIDE of LIFE, which YOU think to have gained, via your OWN VAIN decision... which "cemented the deal"...


Even though I have already shown that the LION's share of "your [copied] beliefs", are from the PARENT organization YOU CLAIM you do not "recognize" (via your claim to being "protestant" to it), ...which is the foundation of your SELF deception...


Here is yet another FACET within your vanity, as well as contributing to YOUR ATTACHMENT to the RCC:


Does the church you "attend", ...worship on Sunday, gradyll?


Well if you DO (please don't bear false witness about this as well), ...then surely you shall be able to show with the Scriptures where the authority to make such a CHANGE in the SABBATH of YHVH (which the CATHOLIC Church claims to have, and which YOU echo in YOUR individual manifestation of worship)... Is SCRIPTURALLY based, and indeed, ...AUTHORIZED this "CHANGE" of the SABBATH of YHVH... which IS the 7th DAY... NOT ...SUNday...

Catholic Church Changed Sabbath to Sunday Statements


THE ROMAN CHURCH'S ADMISSION OF CHANGING THE SABBATH


Statements by the Catholic Church about the Sabbath


m3B02


Catholic > Sabbath Truth


Even after all that, this FALSE MARK of the RCC's claim to have such "authority", ...RESTS FIRMLY established and practiced by YOU, withinin ...YOUR... ON-GOING worship habits... ...(not to mention the other "biggies" which YOU (falsely) TEACH and which the RCC has made "famous"... ...HELL, ET, and the Trinity)


Also, you ADMIT to believing that "satan" is a "BEING", as IS the teaching of the RCC... yet like THEY, ...ineptly, ...cannot PROVE this via Scripture...


You are welcome to your ...MANY... self-deceptions... NONE of which shall be found acceptable in the end -- Matt 7:22-23 -- no matter HOW ..."MANY"... people, follow these FALSE teachings, and thereby, ..."believe" them...


Shall you remain DEAF, gradyll? That, remains up to YHVH, ...fro only GOD can give one EARS to HEAR... which is my prayer for you, ...lost (but beloved) son...


Each day you flee from light, brings you 1 day closer to your SHAME...


PEACE...

...willieH

 

[Sweet Dreams]

The Eastern Church holds that two states exist — heaven and hell — and that sanctification is more process-orientated. Thus, hell is where this process takes place. We are in the middle of the process of sanctification at the moment of our deaths, the work of holiness is an eternal one, since God's holiness is limitless and hence forever beyond us. The Western Church speaks of purgatory as a state where the "residual debt" due to sin is "worked off" before the Second Coming. Both realize the truth of the process of becoming holy by God's holiness, thus the cleansing "state" is temporary.

** A time of purgation is temporary, yet the time of eternal damnation is a fact of Jesus' teaching on the Last Judgment (cf. Mt. 25: 31-46). Thus, a need for living mercy day by day (how we show mercy to others) is the basis of salvation or damnation.

 

[WillieH]

willieH: Hi SD... ...and welcome to the forum!

To claim that God's mercy "diminishes or vanishes because of a created being's fall" involves a human reduction of God's glorious nature and imposes upon God "weakness and change," This would be a perverted creation of God in man's own sinful image and likeness, a true "blasphemy." According to St. Isaac, the image of God as Judge "is completely overshadowed by the image of God as Love (hubba) and Mercy (rahme. According to him, mercifulness is incompatible with justice." Bishop Hilarion said we should not interpret literally the figurative God that the Old Testament describes in anthropomorphic terms such as "wrath, anger, [and] hatred." He added:
"Rejecting with such decisiveness the idea of requital, Isaac shows that the Old Testament understanding of God as a chastiser of sinners" holding generations of children responsible for familial sins "does not correspond with the revelation that we have received through Christ in the New Testament." The Bishop said that Christ Himself confirmed the reality that God bears "no hatred towards anyone, [only] all-embracing love, which does not distinguish between righteous and sinner, between a friend of the truth and an enemy of the truth, between angel and demon. Every created being is precious in God's eyes. He cares for every creature. ... If we turn away from God, He does not turn away from us."


Bishop Hilarion termed the Incarnation the moment when the love of God "revealed itself to the highest degree." He said people "are called to answer the love of God with their own love" as best the can, but that the return love by humans to God on earth will always be less than perfect. God understands that, and, according to the Bishop, this explains how the infinite and perfect God, can forgive our sins. "Here St. Isaac emphasizes that God does nothing out of retribution: even to think that way about God would be blasphemous."

God as Love Overcomes Gehenna
There is another idea worse than that, Bishop Hilarion said, again, referring to St. Isaac's teachings.

"Even worse," the Bishop said, "is the opinion that God allows people to lead a sinful life on earth in order to punish them eternally after death. This is a blasphemous and perverted understanding of God, a calumny of God." To the contrary, from the first created angels to the present moment, God's love drives the universe, which, according to the Bishop, leads to St. Isaac's most important idea about Divine Mercy: "that the final destiny of the history of the universe must correspond to the majesty of God, and that the final destiny of humans should be worthy of God's mercifulness." This majesty may even modify Gehenna or hell itself, he said.

Bishop Hilarion then quoted St. Iassac on "the difficult matter of Gehenna's torment":
It is not the way of the compassionate Maker to create rational beings in order to deliver them over mercilessly to unending affliction in punishment for things of which He knew even before they were fashioned ... [A]ll the more since the foreplanning of evil and the taking of vengeance are characteristic of the passions of created brings, and do not belong to the Creator. For all this characterizes people who do not know or who are unaware of what they are doing.
- Bishop Hilarion

Seems you have quite the admiration of this "Bishop Hilarion"... and essentially what he says in your quotations of him, are true.

It also appears to me that this the bishop at times, skips around the issue of "HELL", ...but also makes GREAT points concerning GOD's FOREKNOWLEDGE of men, as well as that the final and end result of this scenario must somehow, REFLECT MERCY...

I would and do take exception to a few points made in your quotation of the bishops words, ...but all in all, I think that his insight is MUCH clearer than most, and if you are alluding to seeing his insights as true, then you are definitely on the right track (IMO)...

PEACE...


...willieH

 

[WillieH]

The Eastern Church holds that two states exist — heaven and hell — and that sanctification is more process-orientated. Thus, hell is where this process takes place. We are in the middle of the process of sanctification at the moment of our deaths, the work of holiness is an eternal one, since God's holiness is limitless and hence forever beyond us.

The philosphy of the "Eastern church", is nothing more than their "version" of what this (present scenario) is all about... which as I see it, can be questioned...

As I see it, according to the WORD of YHVH, ...the "issue" is NOT "Heaven & Hell"... it is LIFE and DEATH... as YHVH noted to the FIRST (in a state of innocence) of our race -- Gen 2:17


JESUS ...overcame DEATH... with LIFE. He "LIVED LIFE", by doing and saying ...NOTHING... of HimSELF (a man), rather by doing and saying in every instance, the WILL of, and SPEECH of, YHVH -- "DOING" -- John 5:19, 30 -- "SAYING" -- John 12:49

The Western Church speaks of purgatory as a state where the "residual debt" due to sin is "worked off" before the Second Coming. Both realize the truth of the process of becoming holy by God's holiness, thus the cleansing "state" is temporary.

FIRST -- "PURGATORY" is an UNSCRIPTURAL premise.

And if we are in discussion about "Heaven and/or Hell"... and indeed seek to involve the SCRIPTURES concerning the discussion... then ONLY the premises named in the SCRIPTURES are applicable to the discussion... of which the term and philosphy of "PURGATORY", fails to find a place within those Scriptures...

SECOND -- There is NO SUCH THING as "residual debt"... this is a concept of MAN, and is not found in the Holy Scriptures...

The only "debt" that exists concerning "SIN", has already been PAID! -- Col 1:20 -- and even then, ...the IMPERFECT (SINNER) is unable to "pay", or reconcile Him/Herself to HOLINESS, ...regardless of any length or degree of a "perceived payment" -- that some propose is yet DUE... enabling his/her SIN to find RESTITUTION/HOLY Reconciliation...

JESUS provided TOTAL RESTITUTION for the ENTIRE WORLD -- 2 Cor 5:19 -- 1 John 2:2 -- and any attempt to direct thinking of men, that SIN can be "paid for" by a given amount or length of time in suffering, is to DETRACT from the work ALREADY completed by the SAVIOR, which PAID in FULL for ALL -- 1 Tim 2:6 -- negating NEED for any further "payment" to be made by SINNERS, ...in order that the RESTITUTION of ANYONE tainted by involvement with SIN -- Acts 3:21 -- be reconciled -- Col 1:20 -- to the standard of HOLINESS, as required by YHVH.

** A time of purgation is temporary, yet the time of eternal damnation is a fact of Jesus' teaching on the Last Judgment (cf. Mt. 25: 31-46). Thus, a need for living mercy day by day (how we show mercy to others) is the basis of salvation or damnation.

FIRST --- The term "ETERNAL", does NOT dsignate "from NOW-ON". Such observation is according to LIMITATIONS of TIME... and are disassociated with the ONE which is UNBOUND by TIME, even though the Creator of it -- Gen 1:1-31

GOD is ETERNAL and UNCHANGING -- Mal 3:6 -- which means that WHAT IS within HIM ...always IS, as it IS -- Acts 17:28

That WE are IN HIM... yet in His directive and revelation of TIME (which has always been, yet unrevealed)... means that the KNOWLEDGE within the heart of YHVH ...of TIME, has ALWAYS BEEN, in its UNCHANGING manifestaion... from its beginning (non-eternal parameter) to end (non-eternal parameter) a COMPLETE and PERFECT LIVING comparison of GOOD and EVIL...

What this means is that the SONS of GOD, though "eternal" and which SHOUTED of JOY at the REVELATION/Creation -- Job 38:7 -- became manifest finite MEN/living "words" ...each a part of the KNOWLEDGE of YHVH... which COMPLETE "speech" is JESUS CHRIST... the KING (complete WORD) of kings (singular words)... spoken from the MOUTH of GOD, in REVELATION of the SPEECH of which each of us individually, are NOW a part.


SECOND --- Human beings being FINITE in mental and spiritual perception while on Earth and during the REVELATION of JESUS CHRIST, do not BEHOLD the comprehension of the concept of the ETERNAL which is NOT limited or displaced by the observers which do not COMPREHEND it.

That MEN cannot DEFINE and note HOW something/anything, INCLUDING GOD, which has NO BEGINNING... thereby negates the VALID use of the word ETERNAL, as its definitiion is NOT comprehended... especially when the term is applied to OTHER FINITES which also do not comprehend its meaning. In order to VALIDLY use lingual terms, we must FIRST, undertand/comprehend their meaning.

MEN are the manifestation of GOD, ...His ETERNAL SONS, ...placed in the DIVINE illustration of the DIVINE and LIVING KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL, for they are LIVING partakers of both -- John 1:3 -- Which during this LIVING process, are INVOLVED in that illustration, and must be reconciled FROM IT... This being accomplished by YHVH God in sending His PERFECT Son... and His Son, cooperating with each particular of the mission given... IN PERFECT Harmony with the WILL which SENT Him to COMPLETE that mission -- Isaiah 55:11 -- Luke 19:10 -- John 3:16-17 -- Col 1:20


THIRD -- About "damnation"... this word depending on text it appears in, means JUDGMENT... Judgment is POSTIVE and CORRECTIONAL, never harmful -- Isaiah 26:9

CHRIST's mission DISINCLUDED "CONDEMNATION" -- John 3:17 -- He is the SAME in all moments or scenarios -- Heb 13:8 -- James 1:17 -- as is YHVH -- Mal 3:6 -- so... in their UNCHANGINGNESS shall NEVER "CONDEMN" nor "DAMN"...

That the UNCHANGING SENDER had an agenda of "NON-CONDEMNATION", and the UNCHANGING one SENT did NOT CONDEMN... equates to "NON-CONDEMNATION".


PEACE...


...willieH

 

[he-man]

To claim that God's mercy "diminishes or vanishes because of a created being's fall" involves a human reduction of God's glorious nature and imposes upon God "weakness and change," This would be a perverted creation of God in man's own sinful image and likeness, a true "blasphemy." According to St. Isaac, the image of God as Judge "is completely overshadowed by the image of God as Love (hubba) and Mercy (rahme. According to him, mercifulness is incompatible with justice." Bishop Hilarion said we should not interpret literally the figurative God that the Old Testament describes in anthropomorphic terms such as "wrath, anger, [and] hatred." He added:
"Rejecting with such decisiveness the idea of requital, Isaac shows that the Old Testament understanding of God as a chastiser of sinners" holding generations of children responsible for familial sins "does not correspond with the revelation that we have received through Christ in the New Testament."

The Bishop said that Christ Himself confirmed the reality that God bears "no hatred towards anyone, [only] all-embracing love, which does not distinguish between righteous and sinner, between a friend of the truth and an enemy of the truth, between angel and demon. Every created being is precious in God's eyes. He cares for every creature. ... If we turn away from God, He does not turn away from us." Bishop Hilarion

I guess the old Bishop forgot a few verses?

Mt 13:28 He said to them, a man1, an enemy has done this thing. And the servants said to him, Do you wish then that we go and gather2 them up?
1* Greek ανθρωπος man

2* Greek συλλέγω gather, collect

30Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the weeds, and bind them in bundles to burn them up: but gather the wheat into my repository.

Romans 3:21-22: "But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God which is through faith in Jesus Christ to all and on all who believe." This faith is imputed, accounted to us because of our faith in Jesus Christ when we possess no righteousness to gain us entrance or acceptance before God.

9 These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, NASB

Php 3:19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)

1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
[Biblia.com

 

[createdtoworship]

CULT? And WHAT AUTHORITY, decides which "religious" entities ARE CULT, and which ARE NOT, gradyll?


The Christian "CULT" administration? Or the Christian "CULT" authority? Of maybe YOUR CHURCH?


Where is the word "CULT" found and DEFINED ...in the Scriptures, oh SON of the RCC?


And since you cannot PROVE that any such thing as a "CULT" even exists, or is a BIBLICAL premise, ...then upon WHAT AUTHORITY do you stand upon, which gives YOU the right to NAME any other person or person (aside from yourSELF), as a "CULT"?


As far as JW's go... they are EVERY BIT as CLOSE to God, as YOU PERCIEVE yourself!


And IN VAIN, do you name them with your JUDGMENTS, carelessly violating the INSTRUCION of YOUR SAVIOR -- Matt 7:1






More fallacy, foolishness and FALSE REPORTING...


I have not stated a belief in "annhilation"... but then again, your whole belief system is copied, and you do not even READ what is stated to you, so it is no surprize that again YOU are BEARING FALSE WITNESS...


I have clearly stated that I believe in the SALVATION of ALL MEN... (yes, ...including you! )


There is no "HELL", ...and there is no "ANNHILATION"... as the INTENT of YHVH is CLEARLY stated in the WORD of God -- 1 John 2:1-3 -- 2 Pet 3:9 -- 1 Tim 4:9-11 -- 2 Cor 5:19 -- John 1:29 -- but which YOU do not SEE, nor find in your COPIED beliefs for you seek not GOD in His WORD, ...you seek and COPY the writings of the FALSE "authority" of the "Dallas the-ILLOGICAL cemetary"


In the TRUTH, there is ONLY, the GOOD NEWS of PEACE -- Col 1:20 -- Eph 6:15 -- -- which is the GOSPEL... which IS the SALVATION of ALL MEN -- 1 Tim 2:3-6 -- Acts 3:21 -- Luke 2:10 -- which is without RESPECT of PERSONS -- Prov 28:21 -- for GOD ALONE, ...is the SAVIOR of men -- 1 Tim 4:10 -- Isaiah 43:11 -- an NO MAN, can claim ANY portion of that manifest SALVATION -- Eph 2:8-9 -- except within the SIN of the PRIDE of LIFE, which YOU think to have gained, via your OWN VAIN decision... which "cemented the deal"...


Even though I have already shown that the LION's share of "your [copied] beliefs", are from the PARENT organization YOU CLAIM you do not "recognize" (via your claim to being "protestant" to it), ...which is the foundation of your SELF deception...


Here is yet another FACET within your vanity, as well as contributing to YOUR ATTACHMENT to the RCC:


Does the church you "attend", ...worship on Sunday, gradyll?


Well if you DO (please don't bear false witness about this as well), ...then surely you shall be able to show with the Scriptures where the authority to make such a CHANGE in the SABBATH of YHVH (which the CATHOLIC Church claims to have, and which YOU echo in YOUR individual manifestation of worship)... Is SCRIPTURALLY based, and indeed, ...AUTHORIZED this "CHANGE" of the SABBATH of YHVH... which IS the 7th DAY... NOT ...SUNday...

Catholic Church Changed Sabbath to Sunday Statements


THE ROMAN CHURCH'S ADMISSION OF CHANGING THE SABBATH


Statements by the Catholic Church about the Sabbath


m3B02


Catholic > Sabbath Truth


Even after all that, this FALSE MARK of the RCC's claim to have such "authority", ...RESTS FIRMLY established and practiced by YOU, withinin ...YOUR... ON-GOING worship habits... ...(not to mention the other "biggies" which YOU (falsely) TEACH and which the RCC has made "famous"... ...HELL, ET, and the Trinity)


Also, you ADMIT to believing that "satan" is a "BEING", as IS the teaching of the RCC... yet like THEY, ...ineptly, ...cannot PROVE this via Scripture...


You are welcome to your ...MANY... self-deceptions... NONE of which shall be found acceptable in the end -- Matt 7:22-23 -- no matter HOW ..."MANY"... people, follow these FALSE teachings, and thereby, ..."believe" them...


Shall you remain DEAF, gradyll? That, remains up to YHVH, ...fro only GOD can give one EARS to HEAR... which is my prayer for you, ...lost (but beloved) son...


Each day you flee from light, brings you 1 day closer to your SHAME...


PEACE...

...willieH

So are you saying you don't believe in cults?

As far as my definition of cult here is a legitimate source definition

In regard to the term "cult," for instance, Dr. Braden says the
following:

By the term cult I mean nothing derogatory to
any group so classified. A cult, as I define it, is
any religious group which differs significantly
in one or more respects as to belief or practice
from those religious groups which are regarded
as the normative expressions of religion in our
total culture (Preface, xii).

I may add to this that a cult might also be defined as a group of people gathered about a specific person
or person’s misinterpretation of the Bible. For example, Jehovah’s Witnesses are, for the most part,
followers of the interpretations of Charles T. Russell and J. F. Rutherford.

If you are more interested in what a cult is here is a legendary reference entitled "the Kingdom of the cults" available free online

http://www.full-proof.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Martin-Walter-Kingdom-of-the-Cults.pdf

secondly if you don't believe in annihilation then you must believe that ALL are resurrected to eternal life correct? The wicked and the righteous, and there is no white throne judgment or eternal hell?

thirdly,

Mark 2:27
And he said to them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath

(so it's not a matter of what day of the week it is observed but a matter of: attending church

Hebrews 10:25
Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is (willie); but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.



Fourthly,

regarding doctrine

"In essentials, Unity; in non-essentials, Liberty; in all things, Love."

meaning it is okay to divide over essentials (trinity, diety of Christ, resurrection) ,
not okay to divide over non essentials (end times views, gifts of spirit)




fifthly,


even unitarians come from a lineage of roman catholic (if you don't think you are unitarian just look it up)

 

[createdtoworship]

Willies list of pontifications


1) satan does not exist (as a literal being)
2) the proton, neutron and electron do not exist (post 670)
3) the speed of light does not exist (thinks it's not proven to be 186,282 mps) post 670
4) we are all in the lake of fire burning right now (the earth) (post 724)
5) the organized church is sinful (every church unworthy of attendance) post 742, 745
6) the "body" of man is literally the "earth" (post 599)
7) the "heart" of man is literally "heaven" (post 599)
8) there is no end of the world (post 599)
9) God IS the the actual universe (which is pantheism) (instead of beyond the universe)Post 356
10) All religions are false including Christianity (post 271)
11) the beast and the devil are symbolic (post 215)
12) All orthodoxy is blasphemy (post 186)
13) man is God (of the offspring and species of God) (post 172, 161)
14) Jesus is not God however (post 183)
15) Mankind has always existed in heaven (post 172, 163)

Updated:

16) there are no fallen angels, only Holy angels (post 751)
17) pluto never existed (post 759)
18) because God created farting, Jesus would condone fart talk on this christian forum (post 698)
19) belief in the existence of pluto is on par with believing in "Mickey Mouse" (post 759)

Just in case you were wondering about pluto: here is a picture from nasa

 

[WillieH]

you DO have reading disabilities... Maybe you flunked out of the "dallas the-ILLOGICAL cemetary", being unable to READ...

No one asked you, WHAT a "CULT" is! How DENSE can you get, gradyll? ...

I asked you and, You failed to answer... What AUTHORITY do YOU have to DEEM anyone or any organization a CULT? ...

I'll tell you, and its so VERY obvious, ...NO AUTHORITY whatosever...

Truth be told, ...you are probably the LEAST "authoratative" person I have ever had the displeasure to NOT communicate with, ...especially concerning the BIBLE, ...as all you have is "COPIED" beliefs... ...which you have borrowed from the BLASPHEMERS at the "dallas the-ILLOGCAL cemetary" ...oh SON of the Roman Catholci Church... which shall be WITH you as you both endure the SHAME to come...

Where is CULT noted in the BIBLE? ...well it AIN'T in the Bible... and you would KNOW this, if you studied it even SLIGHTLY...

And btw, ...Who cares what "Dr. braden" says, anyway?

Certainly not me!

He's just another from your BLASPHEMING team, that carries about as much "clout" as do YOU... which is a "clout" that is non-existent... like the PROOF you are UNABLE to provide for Sciences's claim of the "speed of light"...

So... ALL of this below, is nothing but the continuing, disoriented, radically GRACELESS, and blaspheming FOOLISHNESS of "gradyll" who remains in the spiritual cradyll, ...which is UNDESERVING of any answer from me, to ANY of IT:

So are you saying you don't believe in cults?

As far as my definition of cult here is a legitimate source definition

In regard to the term "cult," for instance, Dr. Braden says the
following:

I may add to this that a cult might also be defined as a group of people gathered about a specific person
or person’s misinterpretation of the Bible. For example, Jehovah’s Witnesses are, for the most part,
followers of the interpretations of Charles T. Russell and J. F. Rutherford.

If you are more interested in what a cult is here is a legendary reference entitled "the Kingdom of the cults" available free online

http://www.full-proof.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Martin-Walter-Kingdom-of-the-Cults.pdf

secondly if you don't believe in annihilation then you must believe that ALL are resurrected to eternal life correct? The wicked and the righteous, and there is no white throne judgment or eternal hell?

thirdly,

Mark 2:27
And he said to them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath

(so it's not a matter of what day of the week it is observed but a matter of: attending church

Hebrews 10:25
Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is (willie); but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.



Fourthly,

regarding doctrine

"In essentials, Unity; in non-essentials, Liberty; in all things, Love."

meaning it is okay to divide over essentials (trinity, diety of Christ, resurrection) ,
not okay to divide over non essentials (end times views, gifts of spirit)




fifthly,


even unitarians come from a lineage of roman catholic (if you don't think you are unitarian just look it up)

NONE of the above, is worthy of response...

PEACE...


...willieH

 

[WillieH]

Updated:

16) there are no fallen angels, only Holy angels (post 751)
17) pluto never existed (post 759)
18) because God created farting, Jesus would condone fart talk on this christian forum (post 698)
19) belief in the existence of pluto is on par with believing in "Mickey Mouse" (post 759)

Just in case you were wondering about pluto: here is a picture from nasa

The "PONTIFF" posts yet another meaningless post... which is the LAST which shall gain a response from me... DUST SHAKEN... good luck bro... you're gonna need it.

Sweet Dreams is a much more interesting poster... At least SD, is rational... which is MUCH more than can be said of your rantings...

Bother somebody else for a while... I am tired of your childishness... which KNOWS nothing... and refuses to communicate rationally, deducing ridiculously, and basically is pretty much an accomplished, and boring, ...UNLEARNED pest.

Bye-bye...



PEACE....


...willieH

 

[WillieH]

One last thing, gradyll, ...unaccomplished, "PONTIFF"of the RCC cradyll...

Your "PIC from NASA of "planet PLUTO" is no more proof than the BOGUS PICS of UFO's that dominate the TV... ...do you have one of the "planet MICKEY MOUSE" ...too?

Later... PONTIFF gradyll --->

PEACE... (...not that you are interested in any form of it!)


...willieH

 

[createdtoworship]

And if we are in discussion about "Heaven and/or Hell"... and indeed seek to involve the SCRIPTURES concerning the discussion... then ONLY the premises named in the SCRIPTURES are applicable to the discussion... of which the term and philosphy of "PURGATORY", fails to find a place within those Scriptures...

you believe in your own sort of purgatory willie, that we are all in the lake of fire burning right now. Eh?

 

[createdtoworship]

One last thing, gradyll, ...unaccomplished, "PONTIFF"of the RCC cradyll...

Your "PIC from NASA of "planet PLUTO" is no more proof than the BOGUS PICS of UFO's that dominate the TV... ...do you have one of the "planet MICKEY MOUSE" ...too?

Later... PONTIFF gradyll --->

PEACE... (...not that you are interested in any form of it!)


...willieH

wonderful, exactly as I expected from you.

here is some more