Let's Talk About Hell (3)

[Ed Bana]

Of coarse it is speaking to natural Israel.

Are we not spiritual Israel.

God always uses physical examples as typology to show us spiritual language so we can understand the deep things that are from above.

1 Corin 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world (age) are come.

example NT:5178 a : Strong’s: tupikos (toop-ee-kos'); an adverb related to NT:5179; found only in 1 Cor 10:11: as a warning, by way of example, typologically (i.e. figuratively, as a prophetic type, a typological interpretation of Scripture)

Amen testing

Torment' does not always mean to cause or to feel physical pain.


Torment:
The βάσανος originally belongs to the calling of the inspector of coins. It is linked with the Heb. root בחן ("to test") . . . βάσανος is generally accepted to be a loan word . . . The testing of gold and silver as media of exchange by the proving stone, was first developed by the Babylonians, then came to the Aramaeans and Hebrews by way of Lydia . . . and from them to the Gks. In non-biblical Gk. βάσανος is a commercial expression, or is used in relation to government. It then acquires the meaning of the checking of calculations, which develops naturally out of the basic sense of βάσανος, βασανίζειν . . . In the spiritual sphere it has the figur. sense, which is closely related to the original concrete meaning, of a means of testing . . .
The word then undergoes a change in meaning. The original sense fades into the background. βάσανος now comes to denote "torture" or "the rack," espec. used with slaves . . . βάσανος occurs in the sense of "torment" . . .

The change in meaning is best explained if we begin with the object of treatment. If we put men instead of metal or a coin, the stone of testing become torture or the rack. The metal which has survived the testing stone is subjected to harsher treatment. Man is in the same position when severely tested by torture. In the testing of metal an essential role was played by the thought of testing and proving genuineness. The rack is a means of showing the true state of affairs. In its proper sense it is a means of testing and proving, though also of punishment. Finally, even this special meaning was weakened and only the general element of torture remained (pp. 561, 562, vol. I).
　
　
　
　

Isaiah 48 is talking about Israel

Whatever the meaning, the Captivity was like being in a furnace, to test them, not destroy them. If God would go back on His word about the return, His reputation would be defamed.

Walvoord, John F. ; Zuck, Roy B. ; Dallas Theological Seminary: The Bible Knowledge Commentary : An Exposition of the Scriptures. Wheaton, IL : Victor Books, 1983-c1985, S. 1:1102

 

[createdtoworship]

Of coarse it is speaking to natural Israel.

Are we not spiritual Israel.

God always uses physical examples as typology to show us spiritual language so we can understand the deep things that are from above.

1 Corin 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world (age) are come.

example NT:5178 a : Strong’s: tupikos (toop-ee-kos'); an adverb related to NT:5179; found only in 1 Cor 10:11: as a warning, by way of example, typologically (i.e. figuratively, as a prophetic type, a typological interpretation of Scripture)

Amen testing

Torment' does not always mean to cause or to feel physical pain.


Torment:
The βάσανος originally belongs to the calling of the inspector of coins. It is linked with the Heb. root בחן ("to test") . . . βάσανος is generally accepted to be a loan word . . . The testing of gold and silver as media of exchange by the proving stone, was first developed by the Babylonians, then came to the Aramaeans and Hebrews by way of Lydia . . . and from them to the Gks. In non-biblical Gk. βάσανος is a commercial expression, or is used in relation to government. It then acquires the meaning of the checking of calculations, which develops naturally out of the basic sense of βάσανος, βασανίζειν . . . In the spiritual sphere it has the figur. sense, which is closely related to the original concrete meaning, of a means of testing . . .
The word then undergoes a change in meaning. The original sense fades into the background. βάσανος now comes to denote "torture" or "the rack," espec. used with slaves . . . βάσανος occurs in the sense of "torment" . . .

The change in meaning is best explained if we begin with the object of treatment. If we put men instead of metal or a coin, the stone of testing become torture or the rack. The metal which has survived the testing stone is subjected to harsher treatment. Man is in the same position when severely tested by torture. In the testing of metal an essential role was played by the thought of testing and proving genuineness. The rack is a means of showing the true state of affairs. In its proper sense it is a means of testing and proving, though also of punishment. Finally, even this special meaning was weakened and only the general element of torture remained (pp. 561, 562, vol. I).
　
　
　
　

so then isaiah 48 is still past tense.

 

[Ed Bana]

God's Word is never past tense it is spiritual which makes it omnipresent. He is omnipresent:　present in all places at all times

so then isaiah 48 is still past tense.

 

[Ed Bana]

Do you believe we are spiritual Israel?

so then isaiah 48 is still past tense.

 

[createdtoworship]

Do you believe we are spiritual Israel?

no there are prophecies that are just for Israel. We can apply it generally to ourselves but there is some error in doing that.

 

[Ed Bana]

Even the verses I quoted you about God's fire for believers you have dismissed. These verses were written for a purpose to show us God's spiritual fire is for our purification.

Who is Israel during the time of Jesus?　
Who is Israel now.　

It sure was not the Jews then or now.

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the House of Israel.

Notice Who Jesus was sent for. The lost sheep of Israel were never the Jews or the tribe of Benjamin.

no there are prophecies that are just for Israel. We can apply it generally to ourselves but there is some error in doing that.

 

[WillieH]

willieH: Hi LM...

Please forgive this late reply to your post... as I have only been at the forum a month or so...

I can’t relate, punishing Hitler with the worst imaginable punishment is just to my mind. Quite to the contrary, letting people like that go scott free would suggest to me that the universe is demonic rather than divine.

Really?

So... you think that it is an ACT of LOVE to do exactly to Hitler (only INFINITELY LONGER), what HE DID to the JEWS? (Which is to BURN mercilessly?)

JESUS said that "eye for eye" is over! -- Matt 5:38-39 -- and that FORGIVENESS of enemies is the way you emulate the Father in Heaven -- Matt 5:44-48 -- Are you saying, you do not ascribe to JESUS' teaching?

What pray tell is "DIVINE" about this thinking, LH?

Actually, ...HITLER kinda looks like a "saint" (only burning the Jews a short period of time), compared to a "god" which would ENDLESSLY / BEGINNINGLESSLY burn a MAN which ...KNOWING beforehand, that he would do as he DID, nevertheless, ...brought him forth anyway!

Are you serious?

Preaching God to be ETERNALLY(and hypocritcally) VENGENT, instead of ETERNALLY GRACEFUL... by portraying GOD to be an ETERNAL copycat of the most HEINOUS individual and SINFUL crime in the HISTORY of mankind!!! ...by not only allowing SIN (Hitler's error) to abound MUCH MORE than GRACE (God) -- Rom 5:20 -- but to COPY Hitler's ERRONEOUS and UNLOVING example of SIN by administering same ...to him?

That is your perception of the "DIVINE"?


...willieH

 

[createdtoworship]

Even the verses I quoted you about God's fire for believers you have dismissed. These verses were written for a purpose to show us God's spiritual fire is for our purification.

Who is Israel during the time of Jesus?　
Who is Israel now.　

It sure was not the Jews then or now.

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the House of Israel.

Notice Who Jesus was sent for. The lost sheep of Israel were never the Jews or the tribe of Benjamin.

Bible in Basic English
But he made answer and said, I was sent only to the wandering sheep of the house of Israel.

we gotta remember that Jesus mainly spoke in synagogues....so it was Israel Jesus was mainly ministering to, paul was sent to the gentiles later, with barnabus and mark I think.

 

[Ed Bana]

You need to see God conceals the spiritual promise to Abram.
　
Prov 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.
　
Romans 11:26
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Who is Israel?
There were twelve tribes, the Bible had Benjamin and Joseph (11) born by Rachel the chosen bride, then their ten half brothers born by maid servants and their names were, Rueben(1), Simeon (2), Levi(3), Judah(4), Dan(5), Naphtali(6), Gad(7), Asher(8), Issachar(9) and Zebulun(10), this can be found in Genesis 29.

The twelve tribes under David and Solomon were one nation but later were separated in fact the name of the ten tribes during this separation was “Israel”. During the separation Judah and Benjamin were known as Judah. Israel; the northern ten tribes were later scattered and lost absorbed into many nations. Point being no one really knows where they are or who they are.
So your nation of Israel today is not Israel just two tribes Judah (Benjamin and Judah).

What did Jesus actually say was the only reason that he first came ?

Why is this not discussed or understood in the walls of religion today
Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the House of Israel
　
Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the House of Israel

But most who call themselves 'Christian' do not even know he said this or acknowledge this verse, let alone knowing who the House of Israel are or that the new covenant of grace is ONLY with those whose fathers broke the old covenant, with the descendants of the House of Israel and the House of Judah ...
　
Do you see how far religion has strayed , it no longer seeks out the House of Israel that the disciples of Jesus were commanded to go and find, scattered amongst the gentiles :-[/color]

BUT THERE IS MORE!!!!!
　
Matthew 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the House of Israel.

Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the House of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Hebrews 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the House of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the House of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

So with this information who are the lost tribes, I will not answer because all I can do is assume, nor do I know how much sand is in a dump truck; but compared to the sand in the sea shore, or the stars in the heaven; NOT MUCH.
　
　
Genesis 32:12And thou saidst, I will surely do thee good, and make thy seed as the sand of the sea, which cannot be numbered for multitude.


Genesis 22:16-18 (King James Version)
16And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:
17That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars (spiritual Israel) of the heaven, and as the sand (natural Israel) which is upon the sea shore[/b]; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
18And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

How many millions of grains of sand can you put in your two hands at the sea shore; how many stars can you count on a cold winter day; and that only the ones you can see. Just think how many grains of sand in a dump truck?

Bible in Basic English
But he made answer and said, I was sent only to the wandering sheep of the house of Israel.

we gotta remember that Jesus mainly spoke in synagogues....so it was Israel Jesus was mainly ministering to, paul was sent to the gentiles later, with barnabus and mark I think.

 

[createdtoworship]

You need to see God conceals the spiritual promise to Abram.
　
Prov 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.
　
Romans 11:26
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Who is Israel?
There were twelve tribes, the Bible had Benjamin and Joseph (11) born by Rachel the chosen bride, then their ten half brothers born by maid servants and their names were, Rueben(1), Simeon (2), Levi(3), Judah(4), Dan(5), Naphtali(6), Gad(7), Asher(8), Issachar(9) and Zebulun(10), this can be found in Genesis 29.

The twelve tribes under David and Solomon were one nation but later were separated in fact the name of the ten tribes during this separation was “Israel”. During the separation Judah and Benjamin were known as Judah. Israel; the northern ten tribes were later scattered and lost absorbed into many nations. Point being no one really knows where they are or who they are.
So your nation of Israel today is not Israel just two tribes Judah (Benjamin and Judah).

What did Jesus actually say was the only reason that he first came ?

Why is this not discussed or understood in the walls of religion today
Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the House of Israel
　
Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the House of Israel

But most who call themselves 'Christian' do not even know he said this or acknowledge this verse, let alone knowing who the House of Israel are or that the new covenant of grace is ONLY with those whose fathers broke the old covenant, with the descendants of the House of Israel and the House of Judah ...
　
Do you see how far religion has strayed , it no longer seeks out the House of Israel that the disciples of Jesus were commanded to go and find, scattered amongst the gentiles :-[/color]

BUT THERE IS MORE!!!!!
　
Matthew 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the House of Israel.

Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the House of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Hebrews 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the House of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the House of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

So with this information who are the lost tribes, I will not answer because all I can do is assume, nor do I know how much sand is in a dump truck; but compared to the sand in the sea shore, or the stars in the heaven; NOT MUCH.
　
　
Genesis 32:12And thou saidst, I will surely do thee good, and make thy seed as the sand of the sea, which cannot be numbered for multitude.


Genesis 22:16-18 (King James Version)
16And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:
17That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars (spiritual Israel) of the heaven, and as the sand (natural Israel) which is upon the sea shore[/b]; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
18And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

How many millions of grains of sand can you put in your two hands at the sea shore; how many stars can you count on a cold winter day; and that only the ones you can see. Just think how many grains of sand in a dump truck?

When it says Israel in a verse it is always applying to natural Israel


The Twelve Tribes of Israel Map
shows how they are tracking the twelve tribes of Israel today.

We are under grace still because paul used the gospel of the grace of God with the gentiles.

 

[he-man]

You need to see God conceals the spiritual promise to Abram.
　
Genesis 32:12And thou saidst, I will surely do thee good, and make thy seed as the sand of the sea, which cannot be numbered for multitude.

Genesis 22:16-18 (King James Version)
16And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:
17That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars (spiritual Israel) of the heaven, and as the sand (natural Israel) which is upon the sea shore[/b]; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
18And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

Possession is 9/10ths of the Law.
Gen 13:15 For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed forever.

Gen 22:15 And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time, 17 and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;

Psa 149:9 To execute upon them the judgment written: this honour have all his saints. Praise ye the LORD.

Num 24:17 I shall see him, but not now: I shall behold him, but not nigh: there shall come a Star out of Jacob, and a Sceptre shall rise out of Israel, and shall smite the corners of Moab, and destroy all the children of Sheth. [brother of Cain and Abel]

Zec 12:3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.

8 In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.

Zec 12:11 In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.

Zec 12:9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.

 

[Ed Bana]

I do not respond to just verses. If God's Word does not spea to your spirit then all you have is the letter that illeth.

Possession is 9/10ths of the Law.
Gen 13:15 For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed forever.

Gen 22:15 And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time, 17 and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;

Psa 149:9 To execute upon them the judgment written: this honour have all his saints. Praise ye the LORD.

Num 24:17 I shall see him, but not now: I shall behold him, but not nigh: there shall come a Star out of Jacob, and a Sceptre shall rise out of Israel, and shall smite the corners of Moab, and destroy all the children of Sheth. [brother of Cain and Abel]

Zec 12:3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.

8 In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.

Zec 12:11 In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.

Zec 12:9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.

 

[Ed Bana]

When I was a babe in the Lord I would of agreed with you. But there are spiritual patterns in the Bible that shows you God’s first and seconds. How can we as carnal people understand that which is spiritual but by natural examples.

The first always speaks of the flesh. Let us notice a few of God's firsts and seconds. God's seconds are always better than His firsts which He gives to mankind.

By the way the Boo of Mormon and the Quran do not have first the natural and second the higher level spiritual.

Natural Israel- Spiritual Israel
Sand-stars
Cain - Able; Cain's sacrifice - Able's sacrifice;
Ishmael - Isaac;
flesh hears - spiritual ears
flesh eyes - spiritual eyes
Esau -Jacob;
Letter - Spirit;
First Covenant - New Covenant;
Water baptism - Spirit baptism;
First Adam - Second Adam;
First earth - New earth;
Old man - New creation;
Jesus in flesh - Jesus in Spirit.
The New Testament presents a more glorious message than the Old;
the last Adam redeems what the first Adam lost;
the message of God's grace unfolded in the New Testament far excels the Law of the Old.

The second is greater than the first.

First death (all die spiritually in Adam) second death: death killed by death

It always is when God takes and gives. As someone has written, "In His great wisdom our God has arranged many things in pairs, or shall we say, by contrasting twos. Some of the 'firsts' may seem to be very good, and for a time quite acceptable, but in due time they are to be followed by the 'seconds' which are higher, better, and more desirable than the firsts.

Perfection is found in God's seconds.

Often the firsts are but a type and a shadow of the reality which is later to be found in the seconds.

In the former we find the negative realm working out its purpose, and in the latter there is the glorious positive fulfilling its sphere.

The more one ponders each fragment of truth revealed, the more they yearn to leave behind the realm of imperfection, fragmentary, and enter into the freedom of the Spirit of Life in fullness"
　
May God's Spirit open your spiritual eyes.　
　

When it says Israel in a verse it is always applying to natural Israel


The Twelve Tribes of Israel Map
shows how they are tracking the twelve tribes of Israel today.

We are under grace still because paul used the gospel of the grace of God with the gentiles.

 

[Ed Bana]

Lets take one example of these first and seconds.



I believe in the revelation of the Spirit of truth to lead and guide me into all truth. You on the other hand just lie the Jews during Jesus day trust orthodoxy and its traditions and use it as a foundation for all you see and hear. Orthodoxy does not allow God’s speak to speak to your spirit so this is where we differ. In other words there is nothing else to reach for or hear what God’s Spirit has to say out side your orthodoxy. If God was dead and his spirit was dead this would be fine.

So you have nothing else to reach for; no more revelation, no more unveiled truth; Yesterdays manna. I know of so many religions out there are in a famine for all they eat is yesterdays manna (God’s bread/Word); every Sunday; all they can say is you got to get saved; even thought everyone in the congregation has been saved for thirty years.

Yesterday’s manna stinks

Exodus 16:15 And when the children of Israel saw it, they said one to another, It is manna: for they wist not what it was. And Moses said unto them, this is the bread which the LORD hath given you to eat.


I hope you see the symbolism that bread speaks of God’s Word; what is bread naturally speaking. Bread is food from God made from grains like wheat.

When the wheat is not mature the chaff and the kernel are the same; only when the wheat is fully matured do they separate and you can see the difference between the wheat and the chaff. Just like or flesh, or carnal nature when the inner kernel is mature, the chaff or our outer covering is no longer needed.

Today this process of separating the chaff is pretty simple, man has invented Hugh combines that can go though tons of grain in an hour. But in Bible times this was a very labor intense process.

It was the threshing floor of Oman the Jebusite, where David had offered up burnt offerings and peace offerings to eliminate the plague that had come upon Israel through David's folly. We do not know how Satan had gained this foothold in David. At any rate the ransom money had not been collected from the people when David took the census, and God had already warned that a plague might fall if this was not done. (See Ex. 30:12-16.) But God in mercy revealed to David his sin, and also the solution. David obeyed and set up an altar on the threshing floor of Ornan the Jebusite which he purchased from Ornan for 600 shekels of gold. Now it was this plot of ground that was to become the site of the exceedingly magnificent Temple of Solomon. David said, "This is the house of the LORD God, and this is the altar of burnt offering." It was a proclamation of faith--God had declared this to be His plan, and therefore it was so. It had yet to become manifest. The preparation of the site was extremely important. It was the place of the burnt offering. It is believed to have been the very spot upon which Abraham had offered up Isaac as a burnt offering many centuries earlier. But now in David's time it had become a threshing floor. The Temple of Solomon was to be erected on a harvest floor. It would also be dedicated on the occasion of the Feast of Tabernacles, when the nation had gathered in their wines and oils, and had reaped their harvest. The early Church was really the seed Church. True it was inaugurated at Pentecost, which was the Feast of Harvest, but it was really a "firstfruits" harvest. The final harvest would be in the seventh month on the occasion of the Feast of Tabernacles, which was the Feast of Ingathering. The "glorious Church"--not having spot, or wrinkle, or blemish, or any such thing--is the harvest Church. The great winnowing fan of the Harvester is in the hands of the Husbandman, Who has patiently waited for "the precious fruit of the earth." The fire has been kindled to destroy the chaff of the threshing floor. Then He will gather the grain into His garner--grain that has come to full maturity and perfection, just like the good seed that was planted in the earth almost 2,000 years ago, when our Lord Jesus was faithful as the "corn of wheat" to "fall into the ground and die."

There is another kind of manna that you are truly missing out on the hidden manna.

Revelation 2:17
He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will give some of the hidden manna. I will also give him a white stone with a new name written on it, known only to him who receives it.​

　
Manna means “what is it” or as Strong’s Concordance will point out it also includes what, how, when and why. You see the deeper you dig in to God’s Word you are never satisfied; but at the same time very satisfied. Manna has been known as many thing and a few examples would be “Bread of God”, “Corn from heaven”, “angel food”, and bread of the mighty. Just like the Word of God; our manna we eat today is spiritual or the Word of God; not the letter that killeth but the Word anointed by God‘s Spirit.

Every day God’s chosen people had to gather fresh, new manna for if they tried to eat yesterday’s manna it stunk. Today God wants us to gather flesh new manna daily, for if all you eat is the old; it stinks worn out bread of tradition; it is not the new wine but old. New wine is better then the old, etc.

　​

In the Tabernacle or Temple was the Shew Bread which was in the Holy Place; this bread was for all who entered in to receive it. But in the Ark of the Covenant was the hidden manna. This manna was hidden from the view of the Children of Israel and is an awesome example of the hidden manna mentioned in the verse above. But this manna had another characteristic about it; it did not perish like the manna in the wilderness.

Exodus 16:32-
　32And Moses said, This is the thing which the LORD commandeth, Fill an omer of it to be kept for your generations; that they may see the bread wherewith I have fed you in the wilderness, when I brought you forth from the land of Egypt.
　33And Moses said unto Aaron, Take a pot, and put an omer full of manna therein, and lay it up before the LORD, to be kept for your generations.
　34As the LORD commanded Moses, so Aaron laid it up before the Testimony, to be kept

　

 

[createdtoworship]

Lets take one example of these first and seconds.



I believe in the revelation of the Spirit of truth to lead and guide me into all truth. You on the other hand just lie the Jews during Jesus day trust orthodoxy and its traditions and use it as a foundation for all you see and hear. Orthodoxy does not allow God’s speak to speak to your spirit so this is where we differ. In other words there is nothing else to reach for or hear what God’s Spirit has to say out side your orthodoxy. If God was dead and his spirit was dead this would be fine.

So you have nothing else to reach for; no more revelation, no more unveiled truth; Yesterdays manna. I know of so many religions out there are in a famine for all they eat is yesterdays manna (God’s bread/Word); every Sunday; all they can say is you got to get saved; even thought everyone in the congregation has been saved for thirty years.

Yesterday’s manna stinks

Exodus 16:15 And when the children of Israel saw it, they said one to another, It is manna: for they wist not what it was. And Moses said unto them, this is the bread which the LORD hath given you to eat.


I hope you see the symbolism that bread speaks of God’s Word; what is bread naturally speaking. Bread is food from God made from grains like wheat.

When the wheat is not mature the chaff and the kernel are the same; only when the wheat is fully matured do they separate and you can see the difference between the wheat and the chaff. Just like or flesh, or carnal nature when the inner kernel is mature, the chaff or our outer covering is no longer needed.

Today this process of separating the chaff is pretty simple, man has invented Hugh combines that can go though tons of grain in an hour. But in Bible times this was a very labor intense process.

It was the threshing floor of Oman the Jebusite, where David had offered up burnt offerings and peace offerings to eliminate the plague that had come upon Israel through David's folly. We do not know how Satan had gained this foothold in David. At any rate the ransom money had not been collected from the people when David took the census, and God had already warned that a plague might fall if this was not done. (See Ex. 30:12-16.) But God in mercy revealed to David his sin, and also the solution. David obeyed and set up an altar on the threshing floor of Ornan the Jebusite which he purchased from Ornan for 600 shekels of gold. Now it was this plot of ground that was to become the site of the exceedingly magnificent Temple of Solomon. David said, "This is the house of the LORD God, and this is the altar of burnt offering." It was a proclamation of faith--God had declared this to be His plan, and therefore it was so. It had yet to become manifest. The preparation of the site was extremely important. It was the place of the burnt offering. It is believed to have been the very spot upon which Abraham had offered up Isaac as a burnt offering many centuries earlier. But now in David's time it had become a threshing floor. The Temple of Solomon was to be erected on a harvest floor. It would also be dedicated on the occasion of the Feast of Tabernacles, when the nation had gathered in their wines and oils, and had reaped their harvest. The early Church was really the seed Church. True it was inaugurated at Pentecost, which was the Feast of Harvest, but it was really a "firstfruits" harvest. The final harvest would be in the seventh month on the occasion of the Feast of Tabernacles, which was the Feast of Ingathering. The "glorious Church"--not having spot, or wrinkle, or blemish, or any such thing--is the harvest Church. The great winnowing fan of the Harvester is in the hands of the Husbandman, Who has patiently waited for "the precious fruit of the earth." The fire has been kindled to destroy the chaff of the threshing floor. Then He will gather the grain into His garner--grain that has come to full maturity and perfection, just like the good seed that was planted in the earth almost 2,000 years ago, when our Lord Jesus was faithful as the "corn of wheat" to "fall into the ground and die."

There is another kind of manna that you are truly missing out on the hidden manna.

Revelation 2:17
He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will give some of the hidden manna. I will also give him a white stone with a new name written on it, known only to him who receives it.​

　
Manna means “what is it” or as Strong’s Concordance will point out it also includes what, how, when and why. You see the deeper you dig in to God’s Word you are never satisfied; but at the same time very satisfied. Manna has been known as many thing and a few examples would be “Bread of God”, “Corn from heaven”, “angel food”, and bread of the mighty. Just like the Word of God; our manna we eat today is spiritual or the Word of God; not the letter that killeth but the Word anointed by God‘s Spirit.

Every day God’s chosen people had to gather fresh, new manna for if they tried to eat yesterday’s manna it stunk. Today God wants us to gather flesh new manna daily, for if all you eat is the old; it stinks worn out bread of tradition; it is not the new wine but old. New wine is better then the old, etc.

　​

In the Tabernacle or Temple was the Shew Bread which was in the Holy Place; this bread was for all who entered in to receive it. But in the Ark of the Covenant was the hidden manna. This manna was hidden from the view of the Children of Israel and is an awesome example of the hidden manna mentioned in the verse above. But this manna had another characteristic about it; it did not perish like the manna in the wilderness.

Exodus 16:32-
　32And Moses said, This is the thing which the LORD commandeth, Fill an omer of it to be kept for your generations; that they may see the bread wherewith I have fed you in the wilderness, when I brought you forth from the land of Egypt.
　33And Moses said unto Aaron, Take a pot, and put an omer full of manna therein, and lay it up before the LORD, to be kept for your generations.
　34As the LORD commanded Moses, so Aaron laid it up before the Testimony, to be kept

　

everyone has the spirit of God or we are"none of His" the bible says. If the facts don't line up to the Bible then it's the wrong spirit the Bible also says "test the spirits." Your facts have been proven in this discussion.

 

[Ed Bana]

You are not refuting a thing nor have you in the past .
It is your facts that do not line up with God's Word. Oh sure they line up with the false god you call orthodoxy.
You are limiting the flow of God's Word by your false creeds and dogmas that are nothing but yesterdays manna. Yesterdays manna stinks.


You have no spiritual ears. Just orthodox ears which are carnal and earthy.

everyone has the spirit of God or we are"none of His" the bible says. If the facts don't line up to the Bible then it's the wrong spirit the Bible also says "test the spirits." Your facts have been proven in this discussion.

 

[createdtoworship]

You are not refuting a thing nor have you in the past .
It is your facts that do not line up with God's Word. Oh sure they line up with the false god you call orthodoxy.
You are limiting the flow of God's Word by your false creeds and dogmas that are nothing but yesterdays manna. Yesterdays manna stinks.


You have no spiritual ears. Just orthodox ears which are carnal and earthy.

King James Bible 1 john 4:1
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

first you try to make Israel not exist in the Bible, then you try to make speaking in tongues a part of purgatory because it mentions a tongues of fire. Think about it.

American King James Version Acts 2:3
And there appeared to them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat on each of them.

not purgatory but the gift of speaking in tongues was given at that time (hence Pentecost)

 

[Ed Bana]

King James Bible 1 john 4:1
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

first you try to make Israel not exist in the Bible,

You are Lying. I never said this.

then you try to make speaking in tongues a part of purgatory because it mentions a tongues of fire. Think about it.

You are Lying. I never said this

American King James Version Acts 2:3
And there appeared to them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat on each of them.

Explain to me what cloven tongues like as of fire

not purgatory but the gift of speaking in tongues was given at that time (hence Pentecost)

I never mentioned purgatory except perhaps it come from the Greek word for fire which is the Greek word "pur".

You want to point fingers at a false prophets and false teachers that teach heresies of damning billions. Notice I quote God’s Word and do not give opinion based on your religious logic,

2 Peter 2:1
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
Strong’s NT:684 apoleia (ap-o'-li-a); from a presumed derivative of NT:622; ruin or loss (physical, spiritual or eternal):

 

[createdtoworship]

King James Bible 1 john 4:1
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.


You are Lying. I never said this.



You are Lying. I never said this




Explain to me what cloven tongues like as of fire



I never mentioned purgatory except perhaps it come from the Greek word for fire which is the Greek word "pur".

You want to point fingers at a false prophets and false teachers that teach heresies of damning billions. Notice I quote God’s Word and do not give opinion based on your religious logic,

2 Peter 2:1
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
Strong’s NT:684 apoleia (ap-o'-li-a); from a presumed derivative of NT:622; ruin or loss (physical, spiritual or eternal):

are you saying you don't believe in purgatory? Because I believe you do. It is the same spirit that you got your antisemitism from.

you say "spiritual Israel" but what you really mean is "national israel is no longer accepted by God so the Christians are Israel" It's called replacement theology. Very popular amongst calvinists right now and others.

 

[Ed Bana]

No. I do not believe in purgartoy. I believe Go fire are spiritual in nature. As any Catholic they will tell you purgatory are literal fires.

Sure it natural Israel is accepatble to God.

What I am saying is Spiritual Israel was always God's plan. Natural Israel never had the blood of Jesus.

Hebrews 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the House of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the House of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

are you saying you don't believe in purgatory? Because I believe you do. It is the same spirit that you got your antisemitism from.

you say "spiritual Israel" but what you really mean is "national israel is no longer accepted by God so the Christians are Israel" It's called replacement theology. Very popular amongst calvinists right now and others.