"Legend of Korra", Eastern Views, T.V & Ethics: What Can Christians learn from Anime?

Gxg (G²)

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Actually some fantastic points, especially considering Japan's own murky history.

I'd be interested to know why Christianity hasn't had anywhere near the amount of success in Japan as it's had in other nations, like South Korea, the India and of course, China. Christianity has often been seen as foreign in those nations, yet they've blended Christianity to become a faith with its central tenets but with many added cultural practices.

Nowadays, many South Koreans, Indians and Chinese people would not see their Christian compatriots as following some foreign religion. I'm just curious why many Japanese still to have such views.
Good concerns to focus on - seeing how there are extensive times in Japan's history where Christianity did the same thing which was seen in other cultures of Asia by harmonizing with it/reflecting the culture while remaining distinct in what it stands for......and at many points, it was well accepted in Japan with Christianity being a dominant religion.


For more excellent information on the history of Christianity on Japan, I'd recommend investigating the book known as Rediscovering Japan, Reintroducing Christendom: Two Thousand Years of Christian History in Japan



Also, for other good reads, one can investigate A History of Japanese Theology by by Mr. Yasuo Furuya - or investigate here:

But politics may have more to do with the issue than anything else - with the focus on European forms of Christianity (which have some aspects being imperialistic while other forms are far from it) being used to create a scape-goat for those in the Japanese culture who were always against Christianity finding a reason to keep others in the dark on it.

There is no escaping the fact that throughout her history, Japan has repeatedly rejected Christianity because of her suspicion of Western influence (as goes the claim) - despite where that being an issue was not the same as Christianity in the Eastern world being reflected since there was much incorporating of their traditions and festivities into their faith and to worship God in their own distinctively Japanese ways.

Politics does impact a lot - for the Japanese daimyo on Kyūshū welcomed foreign trade because of the new weapons ...and even though Europe was a rival, they tolerated the Jesuit missionaries. Although many Daimyos converted to Christianity in order to gain more favorable access to saltpeter (used to make gunpowder), these missionaries were successful in converting large numbers of people in Western Japan. Between 1553 and 1620, eighty-six daimyos were officially baptized, and many more were sympathetic to the Christians. But as with many actions in government, you only see success as long as it may be profitable to one group or another - and then, when wanting to shift things, you find a way to place blame onto others.

Apparently, in the late 1500s, the Daimyo Toyotomi Hideyoshi and his clan, Oda, were on trying to take over Japan. And by 1587, Hideyoshi had become alarmed. The alarm wasn't based on too many converts but rather because the Christian daimyo reportedly oversaw forced conversions of retainers and commoners, - in addition to where t they had garrisoned the city of Nagasaki, participated in the slave trade of other Japanese and, apparently offending Hideyoshi's Buddhist sentiments while allowing the slaughter of horses and oxen for food.....all of those claims being things which could easily be attributed to the Portuguese Missionaries from Europe who came in rather than all Christians and perhaps many claims simply being a false flag operation to allow for persecution to occur.

That same year, Hideyoshi conquered Kyūshū and banished Christian missionaries to exert greater control over the Kirishitan (Christian in Japanese) daimyo ( plural). 10 yrs later, on February 5, 1597, Toyotomi Hideyoshi had twenty-six Christians killed as an example to Japanese who wanted to convert to Christianity - known as the Twenty-six Martyrs of Japan (including European Franciscan missionaries, Japanese Jesuits, and Japanese laymen including three young boys) who were by public crucifixion in Nagasaki. From this moment, the history of Christianity in Japan took a different turn from being proud and confident...and the Christian enterprise slowly went into reverse. Going into the 16th century, in 1614, we see how the Shogun Tokugawa Ieyasu signed the Christian Expulsion Edict which banned Christianity, expelled all Christians and foreigners, and banned Christians from practicing their religion - resulting in history showing how many Kirishitans (early Japanese Christians) fled to either Portuguese Macau or the Spanish Philippines.

One interesting read on the issue is entitled The Samurai and the Sacred: The Path of the Warrior by Stephen Turnbull. From The Samurai and the Sacred (pp. 110-111), the critical moment that went against Christianity appears to have been the San Felipe incident, which culminated in the martyrdom of the Twenty-Six Saints of Japan. As said there:

In October 1596 the San Felipe was wrecked off the coast of Shikoku. Hideyoshi ordered that the cargo should be confiscated, and the ship's pilot, hoping to forestall the action, became very belligerent. He threatened Hideyoshi's officials, warning them of the power of his Spanish masters and the wealth and resources of the Spanish Empire. His loose tongue also spoke of the way that previous Spanish conquests had begun - by 'softening up' the target country using priests. The story got back to Hideyoshi, who began to suspect that the Spanish Franciscans were spies sent to prepare the way for the foreign invasion he had always feared. Knowing much about invading a foreign country, Hideyoshi was unwilling to listen to Franciscan protests that the Jesuits were trying to frame them.



Many have felt that the way Christians were universally treated in Japan is similar to what happens in many places where you need a pre-text for war - and thus, you look for other camps having similarity to the ones you're against....and then use their actions as a means of getting the people to be against all good variations - no different than what occurred when American Indians had government policies enacted against them due to the ones who harmed settlers/"terrorized them" (even though many were either simply fighting in self-defense or responding to what others did to them).....or what occurred in the Middle East in the name of fighting "terrorism"/claiming others in Iraq and other places needed to be controlled/suppressed even though many other innocent Iraq groups/Christians were wiped out for the sake of the U.S establishing control in the area because of where some who were negative did damage.....and the real goal of destabilization occurred.

When you see the long history of Japan's Christian heritage, you cannot help but think it was not necessary for them to respond as they did unless there was a lot of fear, misunderstanding....and outright propaganda for larger goals. You've got Europeans coming in as many did (with Christians present from centuries before/respectful of the culture being cautious in what Europeans wanted to attempt) - and they are seen as a direct threat to your power base built on the divine authority of the God Emperor and the Shogun, his personal representative.

While you have Christians familiar with the culture who know how to interact with it, you also have a lot of misunderstandings - for the Buddhists don't claim that Siddhartha Gautama was divine in the sense that Jesus was supposed to be divine.....even though many Christians already knew nuances on what it meant to be divine and honor authority (with it even being the case that there was already a concept of grace found within Pure Land Buddhism just as it was within Christianity if aware of Shinran Shonin, deemed to be Japan's "Martin Luther .... more shared here and here/here in Theology in the Context of World Christianity: How the Global Church Is Influencing the Way We Think about and Discuss Theology ).......and in the midst of things, the Japanese nobility saw a threat to their power from the outside and lopped off its head before it could really take root.

Many have felt that Christianity was not allowed to flourish as it did in other parts of Asia due to the fact that while Japan was closed to Christianity for 200 years because of the Christian Expulsion Edict, Buddhism was not, which gave it even more time to spread....and grow in strength while Christianity (including its Eastern form) was placed in a stranglehold that caused it to shrink and be forgotten from the collective history of Japan for how important it was in the centuries of development for Japan's culture.

People don't tend to follow something if it seems to not be important to who they are - and they may even reject it further when those in government not wanting it to be remembered point to negative variations of it as being the sole definition of how it always was.....leading to people mentally thinking it's simply a "foreign" thought to be rejected to keep themselves pure. Although there have been similar cases throughout other parts of Asia with Christianity being persecuted (including those forms connecting with the culture), in Japan it seems to be a case of having great disconnect in history due to a lot of history forgotten...
 
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Gxg (G²)

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I'd be interested to know why Christianity hasn't had anywhere near the amount of success in Japan as it's had in other nations, like South Korea, the India and of course, China. Christianity has often been seen as foreign in those nations, yet they've blended Christianity to become a faith with its central tenets but with many added cultural practices.
ign religion.
In Japan, where most people are Shintoist or Buddhist, it does seem that the main reason that Christianity is perhaps, still considered a "foreign" creed not suitable for ordinary Japanese may be due to so much of the history on where Christianity was truly "Eastern" in Japan was lost due to concentrated persecution.....and currently, many start their review of history from modern times in assuming that if you have become a Christian, you have given up part of your Japaneseness...with it being the case that people in the culture have been trained to think that ‘Going Christian’ is a betrayal of Japanese culture - with the imagery of Christians in Imperialistic eras (i.e. Europe, the U.S, etc.) being often perceived as ‘anti-social’ or ‘selfish’ for "breaking the harmony of the family unit" by not observing many traditional Shinto and Buddhist rituals, specially that of praying to spirits to recognize the dead....or even seeing the ways that those who've departed are still connected to those in the present (continuity ) and that ancestors need to be honored....unity

Thus, it seems to be more of a battle of perception that is present. Many in Japan who used to be for Shintoism have noted repeatedly how it is known that Christianity is the best religion (as they see it) - but due to the idea of disruption of order/family being dominant, things are kept quiet......an idea consistent with what others have witnessed when it comes to many negative actions done by the Japanese to other nations and others in Japan not being taught on it whatsoever or acknowledging it due to how questioning the cultural narrative on the nation's history leads to people not being content...

For more, one can go here or here to the following:

As another noted best on issue (for brief excerpt):

Japanese people value human relationships more than truth and principle, said Dr. Minoru Okuyama, director of the Missionary Training Center in Japan, during his presentation at the Tokyo 2010 Global Missions Consultations. “Because they are afraid of disturbing human relationships of their families or neighborhood even though they know that Christianity is the best,” said Okuyama, who previously was Buddhist and a Shintoist. “Thus, Japanese make much of human relationships more than the truth. Consequently we can say that as for Japanese, one of the most important things is harmony; in Japanese ‘Wa.’” He added, “[T]hose who harm the harmony are bad, whether they are right or not has been beside the question.” Less than one percent of Japan’s population is Christian even though the religion was brought to the country over 150 years ago. Okuyama noted that Christianity is thriving in neighboring China and Korea because the mentality of the people is to “make more of truth or principle than human relationships.”
 
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Gxg (G²)

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:pray:
Ninja Scrolls all the way.

Ninja%20Scroll%202.jpg


That and Afro Samurai

Afro+Samurai+(118).jpg
Afro-Samurai has always been pretty intense....


On a side note, there was actually someone who was the REAL Afro-Samurai. known as Yasuke, one who was recognized as the first foreign samurai who was an African slave that arrived in Japan in 1579 with Jesuit missionary Alessandro Valignano. ...

The man was a citizen of the kingdom of Bakongo, a powerful African civilization that was in decline in the 1500's. Bakongo was in the same region as the modern Republic of Congo.

The man's African name and the name his Portuguese masters used are unknown. The Japanese called him Yasuke Kurusan. Kuru-san is a slangy expression for "Mr. Black Man." Additionally, Yasuke was given to Nobunaga in 1581 by Father Valignano a Jesuit who came to Japan in 1579 (and some reports also stated he may of joined Nobunaga 1569). At that time Yasuke Kurusan was about 26 years old, and he was 184.2 Cm (6’1”) tall, measuring system was different in those time. Yasuke could already speak some Japanese when he met Nobunaga. He impressed the lord with his strength and intelligence....although Nobunaga believed that Yasuke Kurusan skin was painted black and so Nobunaga’s vassal were commanded to strip Yasuke bare. The vassals then washed the skin of Yasuke and this proved that Yasuke skin was indeed black. This surprised Nobunaga, and got him much more interested in Yasuke. ..and eventually, Yasuke was made one of Nobunaga's bodyguards and Yasuke married a Japanese wife.













For more, one can go here to the following:











 
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Gxg (G²)

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Oh, I meant I've watched through the sixth episode of the first season.
Hoping you've been enjoying the rest of the seasons of "The Last Airbender" thus far...
 
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awitch

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Gxg (G²);64341004 said:
Hoping you've been enjoying the rest of the seasons of "The Last Airbender" thus far...

Actually finishing the first season right now...Fire Nation attacking the Northern Water Tribe...Definitely liking the story and having fun picking out all the guest voice actors.
 
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Zoness

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Gxg (G²);64338592 said:
I do hope that what I was seeking to convey came out the right way - in the event that what I noted didn't seem clear or if it seemed I was saying that Imperialistic versions of Christianity didn't harm Japan/influence their thinking.

[truncated]

Yeah, I understand the point you were trying to convey. It might reveal the weakness of my understanding of Christianity's history in Japan especially since I didn't know that any "Eastern" Christianity as we understand it today even made it to Japan. I just assumed with the Portuguese, that Catholicism was the first church in Japan and was the earliest influence.

And of course my opinion is manipulated by other parts of the world seeing America as violent crusaders. Though I'd say generally, religion doesn't play as big of a part in politics in the East as it does in the Middle East. You don't have the same frictions along religious lines as you do in that region.

And again of course, pot meet kettle in terms of imperial subjugation. At no point do I want to make light of Japanese atrocities towards others, I simply wished to address what might be in the psychology of Japanese people when they consider religion's role in Western-Eastern relations.

Do you have any good consolidated sources about Christianity in Japan? I'd like to take a look at them.
 
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EnemyOfReason

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Just so people know this. The Avatar series is an American production and is not classified as anime. It is a pseudo anime and nothing is eastern about it. Most Japanese and Chinese find offense to it and I know this from personal experience.

Avatar is to anime what Fu Manchu is to Chinese cinema.
 
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Gxg (G²)

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Just so people know this. The Avatar series is an American production and is not classified as anime. It is a pseudo anime and nothing is eastern about it. .Most Japanese and Chinese find offense to it and I know this from personal experience.

Avatar is to anime what Fu Manchu is to Chinese cinema.
Just to set the record straight...

People know more than what seems to have been assumed by yourself before you commented. The entire aspect of anime classification is an ongoing debate that has occurred globally in light of definitions - more shared earlier in #11 and #12 - and there've been many in Eastern culture noting the extensive amount of Eastern influences that were present in it. Thus, the claim of "pseudo anime" isn't universal...

And even with Japanese and Chinese not finding offense, many took offense at the movie version that DIDN'T have Asian influence present within it like it was with the show...all of the main characters being white.

There're numerous Japanese and other Asian groups who have no problem with the show (and outside of that, the Native American representation being not offensive also comes to mind when it comes to Eskimos since there were big Innuit cultural themes in the show intentionally...even though there are cultural connections between Asian and Innuit groups) - and that's said from personal experience/review as well.

And others who are present in Japan, there have been notices on the ways stereotypical views of others who are non-Japanese or who don't fit the idea of what Japanese is about ....one example being what has occurred with Afro-Japanese ...one of my friends being one himself/dealing with things, more here in #234 , even though that is often not acknowledged with the strong black presence in those areas historically for a myriad of reasons - and this goes especially for anime when it comes to the black characters present who've often been of goofy presentation (Mr. Popo from Dragon Ball Z comes immediately to mind). For other reference:

Those stereotypes have occurred on the same level as any accusation from others in Japan saying Avatar isn't Eastern because it disagrees with a sentiment from a group...
 
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Zoness

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Just so people know this. The Avatar series is an American production and is not classified as anime. It is a pseudo anime and nothing is eastern about it. Most Japanese and Chinese find offense to it and I know this from personal experience.

Avatar is to anime what Fu Manchu is to Chinese cinema.

We've been having the discussion for awhile about what it classifies as though I haven't personally seen many records of people being offended by it. I'm not sure I agree with the Fu Manchu comparison.
 
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Gxg (G²)

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It's not like Avatar is a parody or some deep xenophobic social commentary about non-American cultures.
Indeed - and many actually took it as having lessons for what American culture has done against other groups and what non-American cultures have said about it. It's all a part of the power of story to convey truth....

But as it concerns commentary on Asia, there are many real parallels. One similarity between real-life Asia and the Avatar world is the story of Earth King Kuei. ..from Book 2 of "The Last Airbender"..

In many ways, he is a lot like the last emperor of China, Pu Yi. They both ascended to the throne on a very young age, never saw the world outside their palace, and were used as marionettes by their advisors. Moreover, they both faced a war with an imperialist nation (which was Japan), and both failed at doing something about it.

For another example, the Air Nomads are similar to the Tibetan Buddhist monks. For both wear orange robes, are pacifistic and vegetarian, shave their heads, and live in the mountains.



One of the characters who trained Aang was called Gyasto - and Gyatso was the name that was given to all the Dalai Lama's, like a title. A lot of things within the show were quite deliberate when connecting cultural history

That said, I do appreciate the way that the show (as it concerns Fashion in the World of Avatar ) actually has inspired dress styles/outfits from Eastern culture to be popularized - and others to realize that dressing a certain way (if involving robes) is actually pretty cool ....

http://24.media.tumblr.com/93345020ce3e2889dca8a6a029851aef/tumblr_mw14o5J8Z91sdcm85o2_250.gif

Although I have loved Eastern dress, I had more of a desire to do so after seeing the series and thinking "That's amazing how they dress the way that they do.....and even in times where it seemed that they (the men) were wearing as skirts, I had to consider how it was no different than others wearing kilts - I think kilts (or man-skirts as some of my friends have called them) are awesome - and I've worn some myself, seeing that I enjoy the dress styles - especially from Middle Eastern and Native American/Latino culture.





From India's dhoti, to the hakama of Japan and Bhutan's gho (and the gho is the subject of royal decree). Many have noted how MUGs (Men's Unbifurcated Garment) are here again for the duration. And although they aren't for everyone, they wouldn't be as much fun if they were. And guys over in Scotland, Indonesia, India, Africa and many other parts of the globe are saying, "What took you so long?"^_^:D

Thank you, Avatar, for helping to popularize men dresses and robes for me :)


 
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Gxg (G²)

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Actually finishing the first season right now...Fire Nation attacking the Northern Water Tribe...Definitely liking the story and having fun picking out all the guest voice actors.
The voice actors truly make a world of difference when it comes to conveying concepts and getting the representation engaging. Glad to know you're almost through the first season - although my favorites were between Book 2 (Earth) and Book 3 (Fire).
 
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Zoness

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Gxg (G²);64345153 said:
The voice actors truly make a world of difference when it comes to conveying concepts and getting the representation engaging. Glad to know you're almost through the first season - although my favorites were between Book 2 (Earth) and Book 3 (Fire).

The quality voice acting is absolutely key! Also yes, book 2 and 3 for the win.
 
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Gxg (G²)

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Yeah, I understand the point you were trying to convey. It might reveal the weakness of my understanding of Christianity's history in Japan especially since I didn't know that any "Eastern" Christianity as we understand it today even made it to Japan..

I just assumed with the Portuguese, that Catholicism was the first church in Japan and was the earliest influence.
More than understand. Outside of academic circles, a lot of people aren't really aware of the history of Eastern Christianity in Japan's history. Tripped me out when I began learning on it....and realizing the reality of how whoever holds the Mic gets to rap/tell the tales - even if they're not accurate.
And of course my opinion is manipulated by other parts of the world seeing America as violent crusaders.
That's always intriguing in light of how other parts of Asia have never dropped their view of Japan as being the same - nor have they dropped their view of others outside of Japan being the same (as it concerns how others see China or other nations that have a history of aggression - I'm reminded of the experience of the Hmong of Laos, who were scattered all over the world after being abandoned by the U.S and also experienced an extensive history of abuse within China when it came to uniformity being imposed on them in various dynasties).



With Avatar series, some have said that the Fire Nation itself is similar to China just as much as it'd be with Japan since China also had strict culture, militaristic ambitions, and intense nationalism during certain Dynasties. One can consider (for example) Shi Huangdi of the Qin Dynasty, and probably one of the greatest Emperors of China.​


One of my friends was from China and noted often how he (having possible Hmong in his background) saw the ways that China pushed for monolithic culture and presented that image to the world even though other groups within were severely neglected from the collective culture....and that the contrast it placed of itself against the West was artificial when many of its people were pushed out of the East into the West just to survive.....and often, not even acknowledged.​

The concept of "violent crusader" does have an aspect to it which seems relative to who is looking at who - and although others look outward into cultures not like their own, they often forget others in their cultures seeing them the same and yet being ignored because of where that culture was already subjected/regulated to being a minority...or having their memory wiped out of existence.
Though I'd say generally, religion doesn't play as big of a part in politics in the East as it does in the Middle East. You don't have the same frictions along religious lines as you do in that region.
Religion in the Middle East isn't always the focus for friction just like the East - it depends on where one looks, as it is often about which group you belong in and the tribal aspect of which clan has more power or less influence....which is present in both the East and Middle East. Religion can intersect, of course, just as it is when others in China and other parts of Asia have noted that a religion based on the allegiance to the State has been dominant in much of the conflicts. And in previous times, it was religion based on the ruling clan or dynasty.

And again of course, pot meet kettle in terms of imperial subjugation. At no point do I want to make light of Japanese atrocities towards others, I simply wished to address what might be in the psychology of Japanese people when they consider religion's role in Western-Eastern relations.
Of course..
Do you have any good consolidated sources about Christianity in Japan? I'd like to take a look at them
I'd suggest going through the aforementioned ones already given - seeing that they are amongst the top resources on the issue and I included them in the post I shared on the history of Japan and Christianity as best as possible. As it concerns having them all down on one sheet collectively, I don't have that available as of yet - although when I have time, I can look into it and see what may be possible to develop.
 
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EnemyOfReason

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Gxg (G²);64345007 said:
Just to set the record straight...

People know more than what seems to have been assumed by yourself before you commented. The entire aspect of anime classification is an ongoing debate that has occurred globally in light of definitions - more shared earlier in #11 and #12 - and there've been many in Eastern culture noting the extensive amount of Eastern influences that were present in it. Thus, the claim of "pseudo anime" isn't universal...

And even with Japanese and Chinese not finding offense, many took offense at the movie version that DIDN'T have Asian influence present within it like it was with the show...all of the main characters being white.

There're numerous Japanese and other Asian groups who have no problem with the show (and outside of that, the Native American representation being not offensive also comes to mind when it comes to Eskimos since there were big Innuit cultural themes in the show intentionally...even though there are cultural connections between Asian and Innuit groups) - and that's said from personal experience/review as well.

And others who are present in Japan, there have been notices on the ways stereotypical views of others who are non-Japanese or who don't fit the idea of what Japanese is about ....one example being what has occurred with Afro-Japanese ...one of my friends being one himself/dealing with things, more here in #234 , even though that is often not acknowledged with the strong black presence in those areas historically for a myriad of reasons - and this goes especially for anime when it comes to the black characters present who've often been of goofy presentation (Mr. Popo from Dragon Ball Z comes immediately to mind). For other reference:

Those stereotypes have occurred on the same level as any accusation from others in Japan saying Avatar isn't Eastern because it disagrees with a sentiment from a group...

I just learned there was more than 1 page for this thread, sorry but it is stretched because of the pics being posted so I have to scroll all the way to the right of the screen :D.

Still Avatar has nothing to do with Eastern culture besides being a Fu Manchu stereotype. Anime by definition is assigned to cultural ties for most people not style. The style that emits from anime is solely because of culture to begin with.


Also those links you posted are about the films and make no reference to the status of Airbender as an anime. They are entirely irrelevant. Also 90% of my friends of either Filipino or Japanese and I can back this up with personal experience. Avatar is usual regarded as an insult to the genre called anime.
 
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EnemyOfReason

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We've been having the discussion for awhile about what it classifies as though I haven't personally seen many records of people being offended by it. I'm not sure I agree with the Fu Manchu comparison.

I am not saying it is a Fu Manchu stereotype. It just comes off that way considering how it "tries" being Chinese all throughout the show. It does not mock Eastern culture but it tries to be so blatantly overly Asian it just annoys many people.

I am a frequenter of anime forums and such and Avatar is not given a good rep at all. Just because it is included as anime because of the animation does not make it anime as most geeks will assert that anime compromises of culture as well. I personally have no opinions on the standing of Avatar though because it is an awful cartoon, I hated it as a child and I find it unbearable even more so now. Avatar and Shinzo are on my list of the worst animations of all time.
 
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I just learned there was more than 1 page for this thread, sorry but it is stretched because of the pics being posted so I have to scroll all the way to the right of the screen :D..
Got ya:)

Still Avatar has nothing to do with Eastern culture besides being a Fu Manchu stereotype. Anime by definition is assigned to cultural ties for most people not style. The style that emits from anime is solely because of culture to begin with.
Logically, claiming Fun Manchu doesn't show objectively where something is or isn't Eastern - nor does it deal explicitly with what other Asians have already said on the issue. Other Asians to consider on the issue who've spoken are people such as Gene Yang, the writer of the Avatar: The Last Airbender continuation comics, who recently chatted with Hypable about getting to create new stories in a world he loves.





Other Asians have spoken on the reality of the culture they come from reflected in the show as one of the reasons they were attracted to it.


As said from one of the sources noted earlier:
The Avatar: The Last Airbender series was established by the creators and Nickelodeon as set in a “fantastical Asian world.” The Intellectual Property Bible affirms that the world of the series is and should be authentically Asian, and cultural consultants were hired to ensure the depiction of the world and characters would be respectful. People who have worked on the original series have also affirmed that the characters were ethnically Asian.....The default physical appearance for all characters in live-action fantasy worlds is not and should not always and only be anglo-saxon, western European facial features and coloring–particularly not in a series like Avatar: The Last Airbender, which featured ethnically Asian Pacific characters and Pacific Rim cultures.....In traditional Western Animation, Asian characters are often depicted with stereotypical features. Avatar: The Last Airbender employs a style of anime from Korea that does not use those stereotypical markers. In addition, the voice direction of A:TLA was advised not to use stereotypical Asian accents to depict the characters. Depicting Asian characters with a stereotypical accent is an old Hollywood practice that generally no longer occurs in modern productions with Asian and Asian American characters (eg. Disney’s Mulan, Jake Long: American Dragon.)
Anime was never defined by style alone and it's not really an argument people even brought up.

But as said before, that was already addressed earlier - and to keep the thread on track since Avatar wasn't the main topic to begin with if reading the OP in full, I'd ask that things remain focused if choosing to participate in the thread.
Also those links you posted are about the films and make no reference to the status of Airbender as an anime. They are entirely irrelevant
Incorrect - seeing that it was already noted earlier (had you actually read) what others said on the SHOW itself...with others critiquing the film based on their appreciation and love for the Asian features in the show. That also goes for what was noted earlier when it comes to the reality of what other Asian audiences have said - and one of the links directly dealt with the experience of one Asian individual in Diaspora and what the animated show spoke to her on (as from Diaspora, Immigration and Identity in “Avatar: The Last Airbender" - Racebending.com and White-Washing Avatar: The Last Airbender? | Discrimination - 8 Asians.com...) while others dealt with Eastern culture reflected....something one has to ignore directly unless they can show directly that what happens in Eastern culture/religion is not present in the world of Avatar. Thus, one misses the point largely when not reading contextually and is irrelevant in their points since it avoids what was noted .

But again, if you're going to participate, I'd request you focus/stay on the topic (or at least keep up/read fully prior to commenting) before going further since I don't want a derail of the topic to address issues that were already handled. Seriously..

. Also 90% of my friends of either Filipino or Japanese and I can back this up with personal experience. Avatar is usual regarded as an insult to the genre called anime
Glad for the 90% friends you have - although it's very inconsequential due to the fact that many others have the same and those friends aren't the same in mindset. Others also have majority Asian friends - and trying to quote numbers is pointless since you do not talk to everyone and thus 90% of your friends has no bearing on the friends (be it 90% or 50% or any other percentage one can come up with) others have which disagree with your own - be it those from Japan or Korea or Laos or Indonesia or the Philippines and a host of other places where fans of the Avatar series are present. Claiming that you have friends or personal experience to back you up doesn't show anything in argument for something not being Eastern - nor does it really do anything since that cannot be quantified. Others (myself included) can give plenty of personal experience to back up claims and things other Asians have noted on the show ...

Ultimately, as others already have friends in other cultures from Asia and personal experience, there needs to actually be verification of what something is usually seen as before trying to speak in universal terms of what is or isn't seen as an insult.

At the bottom line level, it is a matter of perspective and disagreement - and trying to say "Well all my 90% friends are insulted" as a sign of how most Asians feels misrepresents the other Asians who don't - no different than an Asian person saying "Well 90% of my friends love watching B.E.T and that's REAL Black culture for anyone who's against it"...as if their group of friends represent ALL black people in the world or as if many other blacks haven't spoken out against Hip Hop culture/the stereotypes it carries.

I am not saying it is a Fu Manchu stereotype. It just comes off that way considering how it "tries" being Chinese all throughout the show. It does not mock Eastern culture but it tries to be so blatantly overly Asian it just annoys many people.
.
None of that shows at any point where the writers are not reflecting Chinese culture nor does it deal with showing where that which is Eastern is present in the show....and other Asians have noted appreciation for it.

I am a frequenter of anime forums and such and Avatar is not given a good rep at all.
Seeing how many others are frequenters of anime forums, it's specious claiming a general comment without actual verification - seeing that there are plenty of anime forums which rep it rather well and have discussed such. Moreover, assuming you're the ONLY one frequenting anime forums is presumption-based when coming in noting it as if no one else does so and needs to be informed.

Of course, it's one thing if one wants to get into argument on the issue of qualifiers and qualifications for where one goes - and beyond that, the age as well as level of knowledge on Asian culture (seeing how many Asians in Asia are at odds with the spiritual ideologies of their ancestors/peers due to being immersed in modernization/pop culture like many Asians who love all things Hip Hop culture and then say others in their culture aren't "Asian" enough due to not reflecting their values)....

There's no need for it....
Just because it is included as anime because of the animation does not make it anime as most geeks will assert that anime compromises of culture as well. I personally have no opinions on the standing of Avatar though because it is an awful cartoon, I hated it as a child and I find it unbearable even more so now. Avatar and Shinzo are on my list of the worst animations of all time
Most of this is a matter of one's own bias rather than the merits of a show as seen globally and how others interact with it - and on the issue of anime, as said before, it is rather apparent you chose to comment without really reading what others have already said on the issue since the arguments were already addressed as other geeks have done. ...noting the reality of the culture actually reflecting accurately in the show and others from those cultures noting it.


As said before:
Technically Avatar isn't anime, its western animation. Yes it has anime influences, but several western cartoons have that as well, doesn't make it anime.
Gxg (G²);64277795 said:
That distinction can easily be used to miss a lot of the larger aspects that anime is focused on and miss where something being made in the West doesn't mean it's divorced from what anime is about. It's similar to the difference between someone not being deemed "Black" because they don't identify with African-American culture (or happen to be Caucasian) even though they grew up around/were influenced by Blacks in how they communicate - and not all things "Black" are automatically African-American when you have many other variations (i.e. Afro-Asian, Afro-Hispanic, etc.).

There are levels and categories.

In example, the Boondocks is a successful and controversial anime-influenced American animation based on the comic strip of the same name - aimed at adults and airing on Adult Swim. The creator of the series, Aaron McGruder, noted that the series was influenced by his love of anime and manga - with him citing Cowboy Bebop and Samurai Champloo as sources of inspiration for the series' fight scenes.

However, that is not the same as having a show made in the West - with both Anime Style animation and concept that are found predominately within Anime. With Avatar, it is a prime example of a Western animation influenced by anime, or, as it has recently been called, an "Amerime".....for though technically not an anime because of its American origin, many fans have considered it anime due to its plot/style being very similar to ones normally seen in anime. As one review noted, "Avatar blurs the line between anime and (US) domestic cartoons until it becomes irrelevant." Avatar is closest to eastern anime in that the plot continuously develops as opposed to "every episode ends the same way" - in addition to how the story is very similar to anime adventure stories while the martial arts are well researched and there's inclusion of more classic anime stereotypes, though they are slightly changed for American television.

There was a good review on the issue as seen in Avatar the "Anime"? - Eastern Religion and Avatar: The Last Airbender and The Influence of Japanese Animation on Avatar - Serious Artist Kat - and for others:



Anime's strengths are evident - diverse genres, more experimental/esoteric subjects, etc. However, it's weaknesses can be just as evident, like its ability to get stuck in trends. Western Animation is kind of the exact opposite - for aside from exceptions like Aeon Flux, Adventure Time, and Avatar, most US/Western stuff tends to be more "safe" or nothing more than an advert.​



Watched the Frost Bite video and I do see both sides of the argument.
I think I still go with the origin side. Cartoons produced in Japan, by Japanese creators, primary for a Japanese target audience is anime. That means the cartoons were written in Japanese, recorded by Japanese voice artists in Japanese, and released primarily for the Japanese market. Examples include Tenchi, Phantom Quest Corp, etc.​


"Anime-style" would describe animation that emulates many of the conventions used in anime, but are not produced in Japan or were not intended for a Japanese audience (for example, original voice recording is in English for a US release). For example, Air Bender and Teen Titans.​


Gxg (G²);64280244 said:
I'd probably argue that the origin side you're noting is more so a matter of "Golden-Age" anime while the side of anime-style/anime shows made in the West would be "Modern-Anime" since it includes much more - with each group having sub-categories.



Gxg (G²);64280244 said:






 
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