I'm not too big a fan of anime. I liked the Pokemon anime when I was young 'un at school, but gimme Spongebob or The Simpsons any day.
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Although I've watched the Simpsons before in the 90s, I can't say that I'd watch that over certain animes - especially when seeing a lot of the crude humor present within it that has always bothered me...I'm not too big a fan of anime. I liked the Pokemon anime when I was young 'un at school, but gimme Spongebob or The Simpsons any day.
Sorry you had a bad taste in your mouth with the animeI grew up with a bunch of jerks who liked/like anime. I can't get their taste out of my mouth when I watch anime, so I tend to avoid it..
Besides, I tend to like cartoons that are more silly and humorous. I usually save the drama stuff for live action.
I grew up with a bunch of jerks who liked/like anime. I can't get their taste out of my mouth when I watch anime, so I tend to avoid it..
Wait - you finished Season One but you're on Episode 6? Perplexed - do you mean you're on Episode 6 of Season 1 or something else?(Finished season 1, episode 6 of Avatar. George Takei as a bad guy and Kevin Michael Richardson as a good guy? Awesome)
Got ya - my bad for not understanding....Oh, I meant I've watched through the sixth episode of the first season.
A lot of the imagery in the shows often seems to be stereotypical views of Christianity rather than what Christianity actually teaches.....What are your thoughts on Christian or Jewish imagery being used in Anime? I always find it really interesting when there is a significant presence of esoteric symbolism in anime. I think the poster child for this was Neon Genesis Evangelion. The show and the End of Eva movie. The reboot has a significant amount of it too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Themes_of_Neon_Genesis_Evangelion#Religion
I'd say it has an amalgamation of Christianity, Judaism (Kabalah) and Gnosticism. It is also one of my favorite animes ever.
Although the anime series Neon Genesis Evangelion is rife with Christian symbolism, Biblical allegory, and sects are unique and have imagery and interpretations unique to them.strong evangelical imagery...I think it should be noted that there are lots of different sects of Christianity -- from Eastern Orthodox, to Catholicism, to the many Protestant groups, as well as groups that are considered to be more "fringe," or who mix Christian doctrine with aboriginal religious practices. And many of these sects are unique and have imagery and interpretations unique to them - things which are not often reflected in anime when it comes to giving a stereotypical view of what Christianity is about.What are your thoughts on Christian or Jewish imagery being used in Anime? I always find it really interesting when there is a significant presence of esoteric symbolism in anime. I think the poster child for this was Neon Genesis Evangelion. The show and the End of Eva movie. The reboot has a significant amount of it too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Themes_of_Neon_Genesis_Evangelion#Religion
I'd say it has an amalgamation of Christianity, Judaism (Kabalah) and Gnosticism. It is also one of my favorite animes ever.
I tend to find it fascinating (when seeing how extensive Christianity was at many points in Japan's history - as shared before here in #17 ) that there is still a foreign aspect to it which colors what others present in the anime. Having something be distant gives a bit of an exotic aspect to things that makes it all the more appealing to others - even if not represented accurately, in the same way that others had a fascination with blacks/African-Americans in other nations outside of the U.S even though their presentations of them to their own people were often larger than life (or very clown-like) compared to who they really were in their home nation.Interesting idea. The "foreignness" of Christianity to many Japanese people (a country that now identifies as majority irreligious) seems like the obvious element. It's fun to write about things that are distant and foreign, plus chances are your average viewing audience will be less offended about incorrect concepts being presented.
What you say reminds me of how others - wanting to talk on real life events and seeing certain systems having aspects to them that'd be good for conveying their points in story - will tend to create differing versions of them that are close but not 100% accurate.....with the attempt not being based in hatred of the system which elements for representation were borrowed from, but instead based in trying to have new systems available that THEY could critique for the sake of their stories while the real systems themselves would be left in tact.Interesting idea. The "foreignness" of Christianity to many Japanese people (a country that now identifies as majority irreligious) seems like the obvious element. It's fun to write about things that are distant and foreign, plus chances are your average viewing audience will be less offended about incorrect concepts being presented.
Gxg (G²);64337226 said:I tend to find it fascinating (when seeing how extensive Christianity was at many points in Japan's history - as shared before here in #17 ) that there is still a foreign aspect to it which colors what others present in the anime. Having something be distant gives a bit of an exotic aspect to things that makes it all the more appealing to others - even if not represented accurately, in the same way that others had a fascination with blacks/African-Americans in other nations outside of the U.S even though their presentations of them to their own people were often larger than life (or very clown-like) compared to who they really were in their home nation.
It does make you wonder if sometimes there's a bit of intentionality with bad representation due to where others feel that other nations that they associate with Christianity didn't represent Japanese culture well - specifically in eras of Christian Imperialism in nations and forcing others to conform economically while proclaiming Christ - and as with many things when it comes to resistance, art was used as a means to give voice to their pains......with anime serving as a means of protest.
Although I understand where it is you're coming from, I do feel it's imperative to note that language is key when it comes to conveying ideas - for Christianity was not simply present in Japan over the last few centuries. It is truly ancient - and drastically different from the variations thereof which were about European Crusaders or American Imperialism. In fact, Japan's Christian history stretched through nearly 18 centuriesI was going to address this point but couldn't figure out a time to handle it, this seems an appropriate time. Even though Christianity has been seen extensively in Japan in the last few centuries, it is probably best associated with European Crusaders or American Imperialism. After all, rightfully or not, we absolutely stripped Japan and the Japanese people of their honor, dignity and self-respect by more or less vassalizing them with a new constitution as per the Treaty of San Francisco.
I think generations of Japanese people later (who had nothing to do with their ancestor's atrocities) see Christianity as one of the main mascots of the American threat in the Pacific. Many animes make the distrust of America abundantly clear, especially those of a more political and realistic nature (Ghost in the Shell: SAC is the first that comes to mind, specifically referring to America as "the American Empire").
All of this combined adds to the foreignness, and suspicion, of the position of Christianity in relation to Japan. There's a lot of politics associated.
Originally Posted by Zoness
I was going to address this point but couldn't figure out a time to handle it, this seems an appropriate time. Even though Christianity has been seen extensively in Japan in the last few centuries, it is probably best associated with European Crusaders or American Imperialism. After all, rightfully or not, we absolutely stripped Japan and the Japanese people of their honor, dignity and self-respect by more or less vassalizing them with a new constitution as per the Treaty of San Francisco.
Gxg (G²);64338473 said:Although I understand where it is you're coming from, I do feel it's imperative to note that language is key when it comes to conveying ideas - for Christianity was not simply present in Japan over the last few centuries. It is truly ancient -Gxg (G²);64338473 said:
Gxg (G²);63479513 said:the Silk Road is something which has helped MANY empires come to power and actually do well economically. Amongst the most powerful empires ever to change the world economically (and religiously as well) due to the Silk Road were the Mongols
Last December I went to an exhibit at the Ferbank Muesuem of Natural History on Genghis Khan" (more here, here and here)....and it was wild learning on Genghis Khan being more than the stereotypical barbarian.
Apparently, from what I was able to learn with my friends/family, Genghis established freedom of religion and cultural expression in the lands he conquered, promoted a meritocracy and created the first efficient mail system...and he even popularized pants (much better for horseback riding). From an impoverished, illiterate and isolated youth, Genghis created a nation, a language, religious and political freedoms, a post office, Pony Express, diplomatic immunity, a network of international toll roads, and a host of other innovations in what was by far the largest empire in the history of the world. ...and in many respects, his empire was previous to other ones that were successful such as the Persian Empire (very majestic/beautiful and the envy of the West) when seeing how the Persians were often being beloved by their subjects for the ways they treated others/allowed a significant deal of multiculturalism and supported a policy of multi-religious views to flourish.
With the Genghis Khan exhibit, I really enjoyed it and seeing so many of the ways that the man/Mongolian Empire impacted the world - with many of the things we have today coming directly from that, be it paper money, forks, pants, eyeglasses, passports or national parks and many other things. Was tripped out seeing the ways that the Mongol Empire facilitated cultural, political, economic, and technological transfer across Eurasia and thereby helped to revitalize civilization in China, India, the Middle East, and Europe. It was even more of a delight for me to attend the exhibit on Genghis Khan in light of the ways that Eastern Christianity/ Church of the East greatly influenced the Mongol Empire (more discussed here /here/here/here/here/here /here/ here/ here/ here/ here/here & here in #84 ) - and I was really blessed seeing the multiple artifacts they shared at the exhibit on the issue of Eastern Christians - with it being the case that the Nestorians won many members of the Keralts tribe to their faith (and in the 13th century this tribe would produce Genghis Khan, the military leader who would unify the Mongol tribes ) and there were many Nestorian Christians in the court of Genghis Khan, including the wife of the khan himself. It was very amazing seeing how there were certainly Christian sects operating within the Mongolian sphere at the time in question, as the Nestorians had been converting Mongols since the 7th century and the Keraits, Merkits, etc., had large Christian beliefs. .and these Christians then intermarried with other Mongolian tribes - with at least two sons of Genghis Khan married Nestorian women...and the influences being so great that Genghis Khan also exempted Christian priests and scholars from paying any taxes.
But so much of what Khan did would never have been possible if Khan did not choose to utilize the Silk Road and what it offered. And while there in the exhibit, I was thankful realizing how the Silk Road (which many, from missionaries to merchants, used) was something that Ghenghis used in opening up trade between East/West (more at Mongols China and the Silk Road)
Gxg (G²);64338473 said:Although I understand where it is you're coming from, I do feel it's imperative to note that language is key when it comes to conveying ideas - for Christianity was not simply present in Japan over the last few centuries. It is truly ancient - and drastically different from the variations thereof which were about European Crusaders or American Imperialism.
As said before, Christianity already made in-roads into Japan in the times of the Roman/Byzantine Empire and the Silk Road. I am reminded of how the Syriac church and Assyrian Church of the East made many inroads into Japan ( shared here/ here/ and here). There are also others to consider on the issue such as St.Francis Xavier (perhaps the greatest Jesuit Missionary to Japan, who traveled throughout Asia and spread the Gospel in revolutionary ways..prior to the massive persecutions that nearly wiped Christianity out in the areas he resided in and other things went down).
And as said before, when aware of what Japan did to other believers present when it kicked out all missionaries (due to the intrusion of others from Europe such as those from Portugal and other places not respecting the culture as others from the East did), it led to political situations based in isolationist stances and purging all forms of Christianity from its midst - all of that prior to the time of Industrialization when Japan was forcibly opened by the West/others who knew Imperialistic Christianity ....leading to the association of Christianity with the U.S and all other acts of the Japanese being dishonored.
But to forget what Japan already did to other innocent believers CENTURIES before when such was not present - that does not give a full picture of what Christianity was viewed as and how others were really treated. Even AFTER the U.S came to open up Japan by force, Japan was HIGHLY imperialistic toward much of Asia - including parts that were highly Christian - and they forced others (especially in Korea) to suffer/die if they didn't worship the Emperor or hold to Shintoism .....but again, prior to that, there was already an EXTENSIVE history of mistreatment of Christians even when Christians didn't do aggression to them
After Commodore Matthew Perry used gun boat diplomacy to force the Tokugawa shogunate in Edo to open its doors to trade, it was revealed that even after two hundred years of suppression there were still tens of thousands of practicing Christians in Japan. Many of the rites and rituals which had been taught to them by St. Francis Xavier and the other Jesuit missionaries were still in use but having been transmitted as an oral tradition they survived only in a highly mutated form - if aware of the Kakure Kirishitans (more here, here and here ) and them having to go underground to practice Christianity while also having many aspects of Christianity blended with much imagery/expression from what they saw in the cultures surrounding them from which anime has often derived its religious roots (i.e. Shintoism, Taoism, etc.) to survive - making their version of Christianity distinctly different from anything present in European versions akin to the Crusaders. With Japan's Hidden Christians, persecution appeared as early as the 1560s when an unnamed woman was beheaded for the crime of praying in front of a cross. And extreme cruelty took place that many never had to deal with. Prior to the event where the 26 Martyrs of Nagasaki were crucified a 12-year-old boy was among them their right ears were cut off, and the prisoners displayed in carts - and the Japanese authorities executed over 4,000 people in a mere 30-year period - with thousands more being tortured, with methods ranging from snake and excreta pits to amputations, water torture, branding, upside down suspension, and suffocation among them....and when seeing that background, I am not surprised that thousands of converts would go underground after the banninbg of Christianity and consequently created a syncretic form of the faith.
We also (sad to say) have the history of Japan in other eras where it did exactly the same things many in the culture assume that Imperialistic Christianity or Crusaders did. We already have it where Toyotomi Hideyoshi invaded Korea twice in the 1500's, but was defeated both times - and although he wanted to invade China as well, he never made it that far. We see where Japan began meddling in Korea in the 1880's, which eventually led to the 1st Sino-Japanese War; and Japan declared war on Russia in 1904..and in 1931, Japan invaded Manchuria. In July 1937, Japan invaded China. In December 1937, Japan sunk the USS Panay on the Yangtze River. In 1939, Japan tried to invade the eastern Soviet Union. In 1940, Japan invaded Indochina. In 1941, Japan invaded Guam, Wake, the Philippines, Malaya, Hong Kong, Singapore, and Thailand while in 1942 Japan invaded Burma, the Dutch East Indies, New Guinea, the Aleutians, the Solomon Islands, and attacked Australia. There are other instances besides this - and although of course not all Japanese were like that since many actually helped out others to have protection from others persecuting them, it'd be a bit of forgetting history to act as if Japan has been simply on the receiving end of abuse.
For there is no escaping the reality of how Japan came to dominate, albeit in a very Western mode of domination, much of Asia....
As it concerns the OP, there is a reason why many think Legend of Korra often seemed to hint that the Fire Nation itself was akin to Japan when damaging many other nations due to wanting to spread its wealth to the rest of the world to "improve it" - in the same way that Japan did so in its own history of colonialism. For Japanese influences in the Fire Nation, I've heard the Meiji Restoration era, the Feudal eras, and Imperialistic Japan mentioned.
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To me, with anime always showing other things negative with the West, I do think there may be a bit of political white-washing that can be present when seeing where it can easily be the case that others in the countries/cultures Japan critiques via anime could easily make shows depicting them in the same stereotypical ways that they may view others.