Legalism Vs. God Convicting?

[tuliplane]

I really have a hard time sometimes...I don't know if God is telling me certain things He wants from me/convicting me of certain things, or it's my imagination and legalism. I get so caught up in trying to do the right thing, trying to please God, that I feel in bondage and at times I don't want to follow God as I should because I fear that it means there will be more things I'm not allowed to do, rules to follow... I know that sounds horrible...God is not a hard taskmaster, it's just me reacting like that, but for some reason it's hard not to think that way.

So many things I enjoy I fear are sinful.

For instance, one of the topics I struggle with that was and still is from time to time on my mind, is what is modest and what isn't. The Bible doesn't give us a whole list of things that are and are not modest, and it varies from person to person. There are some Christians who believe a woman must wear skirts past the knee everyday and shirts with sleeves up to the collarbone, and other Christians who think it's okay to wear a halter top and shorts. Modesty is in the heart, it's not showing off wealth or trying to get others to be jealous, and it's not to incite lust (yet even that varies from individual to individual; some may feel lust towards a girl in a parka, and others may hardly notice a girl in a swimsuit). I understand all that, yet there are times that I get caught up in small details, like wondering if a certain style is wrong or that I will be causing others to stumble, and wondering if the reason I'm worried about it is that God is convicting me. Yet, I also know that I guilt myself over small details... It's hard to know what is coming from God or from our own selves especially when coincidences are involved; such as being concerned about whether something is immodest, or if it's okay to do a certain thing, and in your heart you thought it was acceptable, then you stumble across a Christian blog that talks about modesty and mentions clothing that is immodest and then think it must be a sign from God, that He is telling you not to wear that.

When I start to gain confidence in things that I think I have freedom in and start feeling grace, I soon doubt again whether something is wrong or not. I try following Biblical guidelines and try to have the right motives and think what I'm doing is acceptable, and then I happen upon things that correlate what I'm thinking about that make me question if God finds what I'm doing as unacceptable.

Can anyone else relate? Any advice? I hope I make sense.

 

[dragongunner]

I think you actually have the right mindset, you are open minded and want to do what is right. We should follow our conscience but its not always right, but to go against it and feel like we are sinning then we have the problem. Paul talks about this when it came to eating meat offered to idols…..some felt in their conscience it was sin to do so (no bible to support that) and by eating that meat was sin. Now that was their conscience, not God telling them that, they lacked maturity and knowledge most likely…..but even if it wasn't a sin, if they felt it was, and then did it, even if it wasn't a sin it became sin to them. So what happens when our conscience tells us its a sin, but as we grow in maturity and knowledge it seems God is trying to tell us its not a sin? Now we have a tug of war, and either our conscience is conformed or it isn't. And thats the struggle we face. So I believe one should always be seeking and to be a lover of truth, our thoughts and even beliefs can and should change to always reflect that in our lives…….its simply growth. I think your doing ok and checking what one believes and what is ok and not ok is something we all should do, many of these things I take to prayer and simple ask Christ for the answers. I have been in legalist churches, fine people but we are not all on the same growth level, knowledge level or maturity level….its a tough crowd to hang with though…..I have moved on away, but if I ever around them for their sake I try to not offend…..thats the best I can do….I can live with my conscience. God Bless.

 

[dysert]

Hi Tuliplane,

What DragonGunner said is worth re-reading. Especially the part in the beginning where he talks about the conscience and eating meat. If you go against your conscience it's sin to you. (This is scriptural.) Paul also told us in 1 Cor. that all things are lawful, but not all things are helpful or edifying. We must also be sure we're not doing something that causes a stumbling block for others. But the fact is that we're free in Christ; legalism and New Testament Christianity are pretty much mutually exclusive.

You talk about wearing clothes and wonder if it will cause someone else to lust. Although you shouldn't dress in order to incite lust in others, you don't own their sin. You dress how it's comfortable for you, and it's up to others whether they lust or not. As you said, some men will lust after a woman even if she's in a parka. That's just the way some men are. That's not on you. Dress how your conscience lets you, and don't worry about it.

Dressing modestly is the same thing. While you don't want to dress in order to cause others to feel jealous or to think that you're wealthy, if you dress within your conscience you're fine. Motive is the key.

How does your conscience develop to be Christ-like? By staying in the Word and by keeping company with other believers. The more those two things happen, the more quickly your conscience will conform to what God wants, and you won't have to be so concerned.

 

[tuliplane]

Thanks for your answers.

That's what is interesting... I do have the weak conscience sometimes, where I think things are sinful when they may not be at all, but there are times as well where I feel I have the right motives and am comfortable with what I'm doing, that I don't think I am sinning, but then I'll start the "what if" thing; 'what if it is a sin?' Then sometimes not too long after thinking that, I will come across something that correlates with my thoughts on the matter and think God is speaking to me through those means, telling me He doesn't want me to keep doing what I believed wasn't a sin.

I could be wrong though sometimes. There was a time where I thought God didn't want me eat certain food and coincidentally when I got up in the morning, there was something on the radio talking about Daniel abstaining from certain food. I took that as word from God that I was to do the same...

So what I'm wondering, what do you do in certain situations where what you were doing you were doing in faith, you did not think you were sinning when doing it, but then something comes up where you think it's God telling you otherwise? Would that mean that if you did go ahead and keep doing what you were doing, it would not be of faith because now that you think God wants something different, you're unsure?

 

[dysert]

Thanks for your answers.

That's what is interesting... I do have the weak conscience sometimes, where I think things are sinful when they may not be at all, but there are times as well where I feel I have the right motives and am comfortable with what I'm doing, that I don't think I am sinning, but then I'll start the "what if" thing; 'what if it is a sin?' Then sometimes not too long after thinking that, I will come across something that correlates with my thoughts on the matter and think God is speaking to me through those means, telling me He doesn't want me to keep doing what I believed wasn't a sin.

I could be wrong though sometimes. There was a time where I thought God didn't want me eat certain food and coincidentally when I got up in the morning, there was something on the radio talking about Daniel abstaining from certain food. I took that as word from God that I was to do the same...

So what I'm wondering, what do you do in certain situations where what you were doing you were doing in faith, you did not think you were sinning when doing it, but then something comes up where you think it's God telling you otherwise? Would that mean that if you did go ahead and keep doing what you were doing, it would not be of faith because now that you think God wants something different, you're unsure?

Personally, I don't put much stock in "coincidences" when it comes to the Spirit telling me something. When you think back in the Bible, it seems he spoke unmistakably to His prophets and didn't use coincidences. God is certainly able to speak to us unmistakably, so as long as I'm open to what He has to say I've got to hear from Him and not a radio commercial.

 

[tuliplane]

Personally, I don't put much stock in "coincidences" when it comes to the Spirit telling me something. When you think back in the Bible, it seems he spoke unmistakably to His prophets and didn't use coincidences. God is certainly able to speak to us unmistakably, so as long as I'm open to what He has to say I've got to hear from Him and not a radio commercial.

So what are some ways you think He speaks to us today?

 

[dysert]

So what are some ways you think He speaks to us today?

Heb 1:1-2
1--> Long ago God spoke to the fathers by the prophets at different times and in different ways.
2--> In these last days, He has spoken to us by His Son. God has appointed Him heir of all things and made the universe through Him.

We see that God has spoken to us by His Son. And we know that the Bible is the exclusive, objective means we have to understand the Son. So, I conclude that God speaks to us through the Bible. I'm not talking about letting the Bible flip open at random to some page, and you randomly put your finger on the page and assume that the verse you landed on is God speaking to you. No, instead I'm talking about reading the Word (daily) and letting the Spirit speak to you through its words.

Have you ever been reading the Bible and all of a sudden got a "revelation" about a passage of Scripture that you may have read a dozen times except that now it suddenly takes on a richer, fuller meaning? That's the Spirit making it come alive. That's when you pay attention and ask, "How does this apply to me, Lord?"

To be clear, I'm not saying that God can't use other means to speak, but in my opinion (which is reinforced by how He spoke to people in the Bible) reading the Word until it comes alive to you is the major method by which God speaks today.

 

[GregoryTheNonTheologian]

So many things I enjoy I fear are sinful.

I think that when we allow grace to dwell within us, we no longer truly enjoy the things that are sinful. When our conscience convicts us, it is probably a good sign that more work is to be done. The Lord said, Blessed are the pure of heart, for they will see God (Matthew 5:8). This requires us to seek out and know God as he really is, and not as we may imagine Him to be, or wish Him to be, or as our particular congregation may teach us He is. It requires us to reexamine our beliefs and test them to see whether they are from God (cf. 1 John 4:1). We must also not discount the ferocity of the Enemy, prowling like a roaring lion, seeking to devour whom he may (1 Peter 5:8), and who will stop at nothing to fill our heads with temptations and vain thoughts that take the place of our striving to know God. We must be continually seeking first the Kingdom of God (Matthew 6:33) and avoiding the false wisdom of the world (cf. 1 Corinthians 3:19), always remembering that the whole world is under the power of the devil (1 John 5:19).

[I am not directing these comments at you personally - I am speaking here from my own personal experience]

 

[Soyeong]

I really have a hard time sometimes...I don't know if God is telling me certain things He wants from me/convicting me of certain things, or it's my imagination and legalism. I get so caught up in trying to do the right thing, trying to please God, that I feel in bondage and at times I don't want to follow God as I should because I fear that it means there will be more things I'm not allowed to do, rules to follow... I know that sounds horrible...God is not a hard taskmaster, it's just me reacting like that, but for some reason it's hard not to think that way.

Keep in mind that legalism is the idea that we need to do good works in order to be justified, not the idea that God wants those whom He has declared righteous to have a righteous conduct, which involves following rules. Doing what is right is what gives us freedom and rest for our souls, so the rules God gives us are for our good.

 

[dysert]

Keep in mind that legalism is the idea that we need to do good works in order to be justified, not the idea that God wants those whom He has declared righteous to have a righteous conduct, which involves following rules. Doing what is right is what gives us freedom and rest for our souls, so the rules God gives us are for our good.

Amen to that.

 

[Soyeong]

What DragonGunner said is worth re-reading. Especially the part in the beginning where he talks about the conscience and eating meat. If you go against your conscience it's sin to you. (This is scriptural.) Paul also told us in 1 Cor. that all things are lawful, but not all things are helpful or edifying. We must also be sure we're not doing something that causes a stumbling block for others. But the fact is that we're free in Christ; legalism and New Testament Christianity are pretty much mutually exclusive.

Paul was quoting their position, not endorsing it. The whole problem that he had with the Corinthians was that they thought everything was lawful and sexual immorality was running rampant because of that. He warned them not to have anything to do with those who bear the name of brother, but who were acting lawlessly.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

I really have a hard time sometimes...I don't know if God is telling me certain things He wants from me/convicting me of certain things, or it's my imagination and legalism. I get so caught up in trying to do the right thing, trying to please God, that I feel in bondage and at times I don't want to follow God as I should because I fear that it means there will be more things I'm not allowed to do, rules to follow... I know that sounds horrible...God is not a hard taskmaster, it's just me reacting like that, but for some reason it's hard not to think that way.

So many things I enjoy I fear are sinful.

For instance, one of the topics I struggle with that was and still is from time to time on my mind, is what is modest and what isn't. The Bible doesn't give us a whole list of things that are and are not modest, and it varies from person to person. There are some Christians who believe a woman must wear skirts past the knee everyday and shirts with sleeves up to the collarbone, and other Christians who think it's okay to wear a halter top and shorts. Modesty is in the heart, it's not showing off wealth or trying to get others to be jealous, and it's not to incite lust (yet even that varies from individual to individual; some may feel lust towards a girl in a parka, and others may hardly notice a girl in a swimsuit). I understand all that, yet there are times that I get caught up in small details, like wondering if a certain style is wrong or that I will be causing others to stumble, and wondering if the reason I'm worried about it is that God is convicting me. Yet, I also know that I guilt myself over small details... It's hard to know what is coming from God or from our own selves especially when coincidences are involved; such as being concerned about whether something is immodest, or if it's okay to do a certain thing, and in your heart you thought it was acceptable, then you stumble across a Christian blog that talks about modesty and mentions clothing that is immodest and then think it must be a sign from God, that He is telling you not to wear that.

When I start to gain confidence in things that I think I have freedom in and start feeling grace, I soon doubt again whether something is wrong or not. I try following Biblical guidelines and try to have the right motives and think what I'm doing is acceptable, and then I happen upon things that correlate what I'm thinking about that make me question if God finds what I'm doing as unacceptable.

Can anyone else relate? Any advice? I hope I make sense.

There is a righteous spirit being renewed in you. It is one of the markers of a a spiritual Christian.To want to do what our Father wants us to do should be every Christian's motivation. Once you come to understand that Jesus Christ is within you as Holy Spirit, that is when you really start to question your thoughts, your motives, and your deeds.
The ASV says.
1 Cor. 10:
23 All things are lawful; but not all things are expedient. All things are lawful; but not all things edify.
24 Let no man seek his own, but each his neighbor's good.

You have gotten excellent advice so far. I just wanted to add why I think you are experiencing this struggle. Just do what He leads you to do.

 

[tuliplane]

There is a righteous spirit being renewed in you. It is one of the markers of a a spiritual Christian.To want to do what our Father wants us to do should be every Christian's motivation. Once you come to understand that Jesus Christ is within you as Holy Spirit, that is when you really start to question your thoughts, your motives, and your deeds.
The ASV says.
1 Cor. 10:
23 All things are lawful; but not all things are expedient. All things are lawful; but not all things edify.
24 Let no man seek his own, but each his neighbor's good.

You have gotten excellent advice so far. I just wanted to add why I think you are experiencing this struggle. Just do what He leads you to do.

Of course we should want to do what God wants us to do. My struggle though is guilting myself over small details and experiencing anxiety.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

Of course we should want to do what God wants us to do. My struggle though is guilting myself over small details and experiencing anxiety.

It will get better as you learn that you can relax. The tension will ease as you learn to yield to His leading.Right now your carnal self is struggling with your spiritual self. Let the carnal go. IOW let it die. I will share how I grew spiritually. I decided that what the bible said is absolute truth. Then I decided that I could trust our Father and that His Word would not betray me and it was for my good.Then I decided to stop struggling because Christ in me was my hope of glory, and that I was His vessel. OK Once I had very laboriously done these three things and rested. Then I began to understand the leading of the Holy Ghost. Now I ask Him what He thinks about just about everything. I am more sensitive to His leading.Decide to submit to His leading and all of your anxiety will melt away.
1 Peter 5:6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:
7 Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.

It is our adversary that is causing the feelings of anxiety and guilt. not our Father. Our adversary knows what we have been taught, and he uses that to to bind us up in guilt and shame, producing the fear and anxiety you are feeling.

 

[tuliplane]

It will get better as you learn that you can relax. The tension will ease as you learn to yield to His leading.Right now your carnal self is struggling with your spiritual self. Let the carnal go. IOW let it die. I will share how I grew spiritually. I decided that what the bible said is absolute truth. Then I decided that I could trust our Father and that His Word would not betray me and it was for my good.Then I decided to stop struggling because Christ in me was my hope of glory, and that I was His vessel. OK Once I had very laboriously done these three things and rested. Then I began to understand the leading of the Holy Ghost. Now I ask Him what He thinks about just about everything. I am more sensitive to His leading.Decide to submit to His leading and all of your anxiety will melt away.
1 Peter 5:6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:
7 Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.

It is our adversary that is causing the feelings of anxiety and guilt. not our Father. Our adversary knows what we have been taught, and he uses that to to bind us up in guilt and shame, producing the fear and anxiety you are feeling.

Well the Bible also says that it is not wrong to eat certain meat, yet some may feel guilty for doing so. They have righteous feelings, but God is not calling them to abstain from the food; they're putting the guilt on themselves, which I think I do from time to time.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

Well the Bible also says that it is not wrong to eat certain meat, yet some may feel guilty for doing so. They have righteous feelings, but God is not calling them to abstain from the food; they're putting the guilt on themselves, which I think I do from time to time.

Stop! The guilt is not coming from you sister. It is coming from the enemy.You have to know that . OK, let me explain it this way. The law was given so folks could know what sin is.
Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

OK, so when Jesus died on the cross and roae from the dead He imparted a gift to believers.

Romans 3:
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

See sister, what the enemy does not want you to know is apart from the law there is no sin. As long as you are in Christ, you have the freedom to learn how to yield to the leading of the Holy Ghost who is inside you. If you happen to get your feet dirty, Jesus is there to wash them for you, but you must submit to His ministration.The Bible tells us this.
Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

All of the stuff that we think makes us righteous, like wearing long dresses, not wearing make up, not eating certain food, etc, the list goes on and on. None of it works.If that worked, then Jesus died for nothing. So change your thinking.Our minds have been trained in the curse of the law. But Lord Jesus has delivered us from the curse of the law. We now live under His grace through faith that He is the one who justifies us, not the law. There is no need to carry guilt because He is carrying it.
Gal.3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:


23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Now do you understand sister? It is an exercise, and it will not happen over night, but lay aside the law that men preach and learn to be led of the Holy Ghost. Talk to Him.

 

[Steeno7]

I really have a hard time sometimes...I don't know if God is telling me certain things He wants from me/convicting me of certain things, or it's my imagination and legalism. I get so caught up in trying to do the right thing, trying to please God, that I feel in bondage and at times I don't want to follow God as I should because I fear that it means there will be more things I'm not allowed to do, rules to follow... I know that sounds horrible...God is not a hard taskmaster, it's just me reacting like that, but for some reason it's hard not to think that way.

So many things I enjoy I fear are sinful.

For instance, one of the topics I struggle with that was and still is from time to time on my mind, is what is modest and what isn't. The Bible doesn't give us a whole list of things that are and are not modest, and it varies from person to person. There are some Christians who believe a woman must wear skirts past the knee everyday and shirts with sleeves up to the collarbone, and other Christians who think it's okay to wear a halter top and shorts. Modesty is in the heart, it's not showing off wealth or trying to get others to be jealous, and it's not to incite lust (yet even that varies from individual to individual; some may feel lust towards a girl in a parka, and others may hardly notice a girl in a swimsuit). I understand all that, yet there are times that I get caught up in small details, like wondering if a certain style is wrong or that I will be causing others to stumble, and wondering if the reason I'm worried about it is that God is convicting me. Yet, I also know that I guilt myself over small details... It's hard to know what is coming from God or from our own selves especially when coincidences are involved; such as being concerned about whether something is immodest, or if it's okay to do a certain thing, and in your heart you thought it was acceptable, then you stumble across a Christian blog that talks about modesty and mentions clothing that is immodest and then think it must be a sign from God, that He is telling you not to wear that.

When I start to gain confidence in things that I think I have freedom in and start feeling grace, I soon doubt again whether something is wrong or not. I try following Biblical guidelines and try to have the right motives and think what I'm doing is acceptable, and then I happen upon things that correlate what I'm thinking about that make me question if God finds what I'm doing as unacceptable.

Can anyone else relate? Any advice? I hope I make sense.

God isn't dealing with you on the basis of your sins, He's dealing with you on the basis of His Son. God settled the sin issue between Himself and us 2000 years ago. Our confidence is not in ourselves, but in Christ. When we make the Christian life all about us and what we are doing or not doing, there will be no peace, but only constant doubt.

The Christian life is Christ and only He can live it, our part is to let Him. We do that by living by faith in Him, trusting in Him, trusting that He is leading us...because He is. Your desire is obviously to please Him....and when it pleases you, always and only, to do what pleases God you can do as you please.